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  1. #21
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    DDO is based on 3.5, no ? I mean, technically speaking, she woulsdn't be a Greater Deity, then.

    And that above mentioned "Spider Queen War" - could it be that it takes place "after" DDO ?
    I've seen this spouted a lot. Yes, DDO is based on a 3.5 ruleset, but a ruleset does not define time of a world. Where we are going... well, When we are going to FR it is after the spider war, and Lolth is a major deity.

    Now note, we are Ebberron characters. EB from everything I've gathered really doesn't have "gods" like FR does, but a beings/enties who seem to by sheer willpower of self and others believing in them have risen to godlike status.
    To us, Lolth is just another "Lord of Blades" Really dam powerful, but though stubbornness and team work, we can knock them around a bit.

    I mean heck, we knocked around Lords of Kyber somewhat before we hit 20.

  2. #22
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    I've seen this spouted a lot. Yes, DDO is based on a 3.5 ruleset, but a ruleset does not define time of a world. Where we are going... well, When we are going to FR it is after the spider war, and Lolth is a major deity.

    Now note, we are Ebberron characters. EB from everything I've gathered really doesn't have "gods" like FR does, but a beings/enties who seem to by sheer willpower of self and others believing in them have risen to godlike status.
    To us, Lolth is just another "Lord of Blades" Really dam powerful, but though stubbornness and team work, we can knock them around a bit.

    I mean heck, we knocked around Lords of Kyber somewhat before we hit 20.
    Please link the where you get information from the devs that says when we go to FR it will be after the spider war series.

    Even if we do go forward in time to where she becomes a "greater" deity (in 4e) since this is 3.5e she may not be a greater deity, it all depends on how turbine wants to play it.

    Another thing there isn't really any timeline continuity when comparing eberron and FR as they take place in different setting, different planets and most likely don't use similar calendar systems etc.

    I will say though that it has been shown in lore that all 3e and 3.5e events take place AFTER 2e ADnD events. I would kinda of assume the same for 4e and 5e. Can't say ive done much research on the last ones though

    IF she's not a greater deity though it would explain why we have a snowballs chance in hell against her.

    LoB isnt a god either even though he has some followers and is really tough:

    http://eberron.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lord_of_Blades

    Gods in FR are dependent on followers as well, only Ao doesn't need worshipers since he's the Overdeity.

    In FR Gods have ranks so to speak, Greater deities, Intermediate deities, Lesser deities, Demideities and Quasi-deities.

    Like i said since this is 3.5e regardless of which time will will be in when we go to FR it would be more logical for her to still be in the intermediate stage.
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 04-09-2012 at 11:36 AM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Please link the where you get information from the devs that says when we go to FR it will be after the spider war series.
    I didn't read the spider wars series, but I clearly remember reading that we'll be going to FR after the disappearance of Mystra (Spellplague?) and Lolth plans to be take over the portfolio of magic.

    From the Gamespot preview: http://uk.gamespot.com/features/drui...ealms-6370289/
    From them, you discover that the drow are attacking Eveningstar because they seek the Thread of the Weave, a fearsome vessel that contains the power of Mystra, the Forgotten Realms' previous queen of magic.

  4. #24
    Community Member Arkat's Avatar
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    Assumption: All the events regarding Lolth, Cormyr and the rest of the stuff in the Expansion are taking place AFTER the Spellplague which was introduced in 4th Edition D&D.

    Rationale: WotC and Turbine are working together and some of that co-operation will be part of 5th Edition D&D.

    Quote Originally Posted by windchant View Post
    ah..totally forget about that.... come to think about it.. i think i hear the name Elminster in the trailer.. could it be mystra behind the scheme?
    Mystra is Dead. Cyric killed her and this triggered the Spellplague. Elminster is still alive after the Spellplague. No, we're more likely to see Lolth plotting to become the new Goddess of Magic, subsuming the former Mystra's portfolio (are the dragonshards from Eberron part of that plot?). Another guess of mine is that Lolth will be competing against Elminster for that portfolio.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    DDO is based on 3.5, no ? I mean, technically speaking, she woulsdn't be a Greater Deity, then.

    And that above mentioned "Spider Queen War" - could it be that it takes place "after" DDO ?
    Again, I HIGHLY suspect the events that occur in the DDO Faerun Expansion are meant to coincide with (or at least be related to) the release of 5th Edition D&D which occurs AFTER 4th Edition (Spellplague).
    Last edited by Arkat; 04-09-2012 at 11:44 AM.

  5. #25
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azhanti View Post
    1st edition AD&D module Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits, players do battle with Lolth on her home plane, character levels.........10-14!!
    We wiped in D3.... I never got to play Q1. I did read the adventure a year or so later when it was clear we were never going to play it (probably a good thing, since I was the guy in charge of making maps for my group - that place would have killed me)
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  6. #26
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Assumption: All the events regarding Lolth, Cormyr and the rest of the stuff in the Expansion are taking place AFTER the Spellplague which was introduced in 4th Edition D&D.

    Rationale: WotC and Turbine are working together and some of that co-operation will be part of 5th Edition D&D.


    Mystra is Dead. Cyric killed her and this triggered the Spellplague. Elminster is still alive after the Spellplague. No, we're more likely to see Lolth plotting to become the new Goddess of Magic, subsuming the former Mystra's portfolio (are the dragonshards from Eberron part of that plot?). Another guess of mine is that Lolth will be competing against Elminster for that portfolio.




    Again, I HIGHLY suspect the events that occur in the DDO Faerun Expansion are meant to coincide with (or at least be related to) the release of 5th Edition D&D which occurs AFTER 4th Edition (Spellplague).
    If these event take place after the spell plague then yes it would be in 4e time and yes she would be a greater deity though like i said the spell plague takes place in in 1358DR and i believe she becomes a greater in 1373DR.

    Hmm it possible what you say though


    Just want to add the spell plagues doesn't happen "because" Mystra died, it happens because "the weave" which is raw magic that Mystra manipulates/forces into a weave makes magic more accessible to users and in which she limits the power of it (after the event of Karsus's folly), it happens because magic is snapping back to its "pure raw nature". This also explains why magic is different in 4e



    One tidbit its been hinted that Mystra may be brought back via Blue flame items.

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mystra#Midnight
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 04-09-2012 at 12:04 PM.
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    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  7. #27
    Community Member noinfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Another guess of mine is that Lolth will be competing against Elminster for that portfolio.



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  8. #28
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Mystra is Dead. Cyric killed her and this triggered the Spellplague. Elminster is still alive after the Spellplague. No, we're more likely to see Lolth plotting to become the new Goddess of Magic, subsuming the former Mystra's portfolio (are the dragonshards from Eberron part of that plot?). Another guess of mine is that Lolth will be competing against Elminster for that portfolio.
    I wouldn't put it past her trying to get that portfolio, but I doubt El will be trying for it himself. He already turn Ao down before.

    http://www.amazon.com/Elminster-Must.../dp/0786951931

    "Then there is Amarune a masked dancer who has her own problems and doesn't know that she is about to become a bigger part of the world."
    You have to scroll down to the reviews to read that, but that is what i recall from reading the description on the book itself when I had a look at it in a book store. Amarune better fits Ed's style for a new Goddess of magic. Now, those of us who have read the book could give an answer for fact. I can't.

    SilkofDrasnia, I assume you have your answers now as others already answered them. But to re itterate, a ruleset does not define the timeline of a region/setting, the DM does.

  9. #29
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post

    *snip*
    SilkofDrasnia, I assume you have your answers now as others already answered them. But to re itterate, a ruleset does not define the timeline of a region/setting, the DM does.
    Sure but the timeline is something any "good" DM takes into account if just for lore reasons and immersion
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by windchant View Post
    am not sure, but i think i read several succeed on god slaying.. though not much detailed.. but it seem to be possible..

    also even her avatar would be sorta impossible to kill on her own domain.. hmm wonder how turbine plot it..
    Well Immortals could still kill Immortals...
    But a mortal, even a not so mortal ( either a Mortal on his Immortality quest, or a failed Immortal ) would have had a hard time killing anything beside an avatar of the Immortal.

    Basically the Immortals rules took over everything once you reached LVL 36 ( Basic D&D ) and did your immortality quest ( which included reaching LVL 36 several time usually, TR anybody ? ) and you rolled a new character that started as a LVL 1 Immortal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    SilkofDrasnia, I assume you have your answers now as others already answered them. But to re itterate, a ruleset does not define the timeline of a region/setting, the DM does.
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    Sure but the timeline is something any "good" DM takes into account if just for lore reasons and immersion
    There is nothing to suggest that the expansion is breaking the timeline or lore,which suggests taking place after Spellplague. We do not know how the current timeline in Eberron=Forgotten Realms.

    You are still equating ruleset=timeline. The expansion is progressing at a timeline that does not follow a ruleset fixed in stone. If ruleset=timeline/story, this would be the result during a dungeon crawl:
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html

  12. #32
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by learst View Post
    There is nothing to suggest that the expansion is breaking the timeline or lore,which suggests taking place after Spellplague. We do not know how the current timeline in Eberron=Forgotten Realms.

    You are still equating ruleset=timeline. The expansion is progressing at a timeline that does not follow a ruleset fixed in stone. If ruleset=timeline/story, this would be the result during a dungeon crawl:
    http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html
    Yous misunderstand, somethings in the timeline are markers that indicate which rule set for example BG is well established as 2e timeline which is accepted lore wise to have happened BEFORE 3e 3.5e.

    In the same way anything happening in FR AFTER the spell plague is by default in 4e ruleset as that's how WOTC decided it was going to be.

    If we go to FR and its happening after the spell plague you can say what you want but its happening in the time after fearun went 4e. I don't care if we not using 4e rules im speaking strictly lore.

    What you all are talking about is house rules not following the established core lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
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  13. #33
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    What you all are talking about is house rules not following the established core lore.
    Core lore = background story = setting

    game mechanics = ruleset = version number

    Now, it is factual to state that many players correlate time frame to rule set version. It is just easy to do that for us. Which if I'm reading what you stated, is what you said.

  14. #34
    Community Member SilkofDrasnia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missing_Minds View Post
    Core lore = background story = setting

    game mechanics = ruleset = version number

    Now, it is factual to state that many players correlate time frame to rule set version. It is just easy to do that for us. Which if I'm reading what you stated, is what you said.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faer%C3%BBn

    Fourth Edition

    The fourth edition of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, released in 2008, saw major changes to the geography of Faerûn and the world of Abeir-Toril. Due to a magical cataclysm known as the Spellplague, the southern parts of Faerûn were devastated. Chult became an island detached from the mainland, the kingdom of Halruaa was utterly destroyed, and parts of the Sea of Fallen Stars drained into the Underdark. The northern Realms were less affected by the Spellplague, but during the 100-year gap between the third and fourth editions of the setting it was revealed that the Netherese wizards of the city of Shade had eliminated the desert of Anauroch, returning the land to its pre-Fall state. The borders of some of the kingdoms were changed to reflect this. In addition to these changes, floating islands of earth known as 'earthmotes' appeared in the skies above Faerûn and the continent of Maztica across the western ocean vanished along with the Faerûnian colonies on its east coast.[19]
    Like i have been saying the timeline is a guide that show certain important events one of them is the 100 year jump to 4e. You can not say the timeline in this case has nothing to do with 4e, again speaking lore wise.

    Im not saying a DM can't tweak that or ignore 4e completely rules wise.

    For the discussion of this thread it was just me saying if we go post spellplague ( more specifically around 1373DR) Lolth should be greater deity if pre she should be an intermediate deity.
    Last edited by SilkofDrasnia; 04-09-2012 at 04:07 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    Insulting the development team is not allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jendrak
    Somebody should definitely explain to Turbine that when they roll up a new GM that INT is not dump stat.

  15. #35
    The Hatchery bigolbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Assumption: All the events regarding Lolth, Cormyr and the rest of the stuff in the Expansion are taking place AFTER the Spellplague which was introduced in 4th Edition D&D.

    Rationale: WotC and Turbine are working together and some of that co-operation will be part of 5th Edition D&D.

    Again, I HIGHLY suspect the events that occur in the DDO Faerun Expansion are meant to coincide with (or at least be related to) the release of 5th Edition D&D which occurs AFTER 4th Edition (Spellplague).

    This person is correct in my opinon. Historical presedent indicates that DDO has been given the rights to write the 'history' between 4e and 5e. Its certainly not the first time a computer game has covered the gap between pen and paper editions.

    Im fairly sure eye of the beholder covered the gap between 1'st and 2nd ed as regards plot.

    baldursgate - covered the gap between 2nd ed and 3.0 with a plot that revolved around the time of troubles.

    I dont know a great deal about the plot for 4th edition but I suspect that events in neverwinter nights/nwn2 and expansions covers pot changes from 3.5 to 4. such as the introduction of kelemvor as a god of the dead.

    Computer games and novels are the traditional method for covering that transition plot. It looks like ddo got its turn and im glad wotc have recognised the writing and design talent here. kudos to the devs on this.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigolbear View Post
    This person is correct in my opinon. Historical presedent indicates that DDO has been given the rights to write the 'history' between 4e and 5e. Its certainly not the first time a computer game has covered the gap between pen and paper editions.

    Im fairly sure eye of the beholder covered the gap between 1'st and 2nd ed as regards plot.

    baldursgate - covered the gap between 2nd ed and 3.0 with a plot that revolved around the time of troubles.

    I dont know a great deal about the plot for 4th edition but I suspect that events in neverwinter nights/nwn2 and expansions covers pot changes from 3.5 to 4. such as the introduction of kelemvor as a god of the dead.

    Computer games and novels are the traditional method for covering that transition plot. It looks like ddo got its turn and im glad wotc have recognised the writing and design talent here. kudos to the devs on this.
    That's an interesting perspective which I wasn't aware of. I thought BG and IWD for example, are just games with novels - a novel based on BG while IWD was based on The Crystal Shard.

    If that's the case as you say, a hearty kudos to the Devs then. It's a big acknowledgement of Turbine by WoTC.

  17. #37
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkofDrasnia View Post
    For the discussion of this thread it was just me saying if we go post spellplague ( more specifically around 1373DR) Lolth should be greater deity if pre she should be an intermediate deity.
    Oh... given what I'm seeing on wotc right now, I'd say it is going to be post spell plauge and she is definitely... greater.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey-Boy View Post
    It's gonna be like LOB where we don't actually kill the god, only annoy it until it finds something better to do.
    That was the first thing I thought of when I read that in the future characters would be facing Lolth. It brought me back to the good ol' Against the Giants and Demonweb Pits from 1rst ed. (Mind you I started playing when 2nd ed started, but my husband was an avid player since, well, core D&D and had all of the old drow games from 1rst ed and ran me through them. ^_^ )
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    We wiped in D3.... I never got to play Q1. I did read the adventure a year or so later when it was clear we were never going to play it (probably a good thing, since I was the guy in charge of making maps for my group - that place would have killed me)
    I feel your pain!

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    Community Member Asmodeus451's Avatar
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    regarding the "a greater deity on her home plane an just THINK you out of existence"

    i'd expect some kind of Boots of Anchoring mechanic


    you know, a VERY powerful magical item (that we have to quest for) that prevents her from just wiping us from the face of FR with a thought
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