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  1. #21
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psi0nix View Post

    As for the cry baby post, umm blue bar envy much and well. . .so much else I could say but trolls are best to be left unfed.
    No, not really.

    You complained about soloing the quest, and were calling for sweeping changes to the way beholders work, because you had a hard time in there. You've run the quest before, it's rather obviously filled with beholders, and everyone should know what it's like fighting beholders by that level. The inability to solo a quest (and I'm being a tiny bit hypocritical here) should not be grounds for changes made to the thing or game content on the whole.

    That you were on a caster, who can probably solo 90% of the rest of the game, just makes the crying about it that much more ridiculous.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sephiroth1084 View Post
    No, not really.

    You complained about soloing the quest, and were calling for sweeping changes to the way beholders work, because you had a hard time in there. You've run the quest before, it's rather obviously filled with beholders, and everyone should know what it's like fighting beholders by that level. The inability to solo a quest (and I'm being a tiny bit hypocritical here) should not be grounds for changes made to the thing or game content on the whole.

    That you were on a caster, who can probably solo 90% of the rest of the game, just makes the crying about it that much more ridiculous.
    Exactly.
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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
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    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  3. #23
    Community Member Zyerz's Avatar
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    Cast some AOEs, go grab agro, run em through the spells. Piece of cake. Firewall, blade barrier, ice storm... they do just fine. Simply dont get too close to the beholders.

    "Hikari datte, yami datte, kitto"

    Into light, into darkness, surely.

  4. #24
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    I just wish that beholder antimagic worked like it is supposed to.

    1) Antimagic means that the other eye beams can't hit you.
    2) Antimagic SUPPRESSES buffs, doesn't dispel them.
    Actually its more than this.. The antimagic will remove (temporarily) the magic from all weapons and equipment and everything carried (potions, scrolls, etc), not just buffs, say good-bye to all the extra SP/HP granted from items too.

    Vordax

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  5. #25

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    Actually its more than this.. The antimagic will remove (temporarily) the magic from all weapons and equipment and everything carried (potions, scrolls, etc), not just buffs, say good-bye to all the extra SP/HP granted from items too.
    Which I'm fine with, if it means no level drain eye beams and being able to cast buffs that will still be there after the beholder is dead.
    I am the 'Who' In the call "Who's there!?"
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  6. #26
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Which I'm fine with, if it means no level drain eye beams and being able to cast buffs that will still be there after the beholder is dead.
    What's more likely to occur is that we'd still get that clinging anti-magic effect that we have now, but the beholder would be able to open its eye, temporarily suppressing all magical effects on us, including equipment, and then would one-shot us with PK/FoD as our Deathblock and saves boosting items and effects would be suppressed for a moment still.
    Useful links: A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO / All Caster Shroud, Hard Shroud, VoD, ToD Einhander, Elochka, Ferrumrym, Ferrumdermis, Ferrumshot, Ferrumblood, Ferrumender, Ferrumshadow, Ferrumschtik All proud officers of The Loreseekers. Except Bruucelee, he's a Sentinel!

  7. #27
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Beholders are perfect as is.

    More critters should dispel magic. And there should be more anti-magic fields.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  8. #28
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psi0nix View Post
    Just tried to solo this on elite, lvl 18 atm, PaleMaster 3rd life (2xsorc 1xwiz), and it really stuck out just how BS this quest is to solo.

    First of all the bartender filled the bar on my side with drinks before i could even drink anything, had about 1 drink then sat there "stunned" until the bar was full and had no choice but to fight the beholders.

    It's at this point i see just how completely useless a caster is against them, they just keep a NON STOP stream of anti-magic so you CANNOT CAST ANY F;n THING.

    you just have to run around in circles until the inevitable death, this really gets to me because I have solo'd this same quest at level on elite with other toons and it's easy.

    Can we get a 2 second break from the "Anti-magic", I mean comon, the caster class is just rendered completely defenseless, to the point where you are unable to even heal yourself or anything, it just seems a bit "garbage" to me that the beholders can do this.

    the beholders maintain the Anti-magic field through the walls / floors - everything - I cannot cast through walls why can they ?

    Not a single spell could be cast at all, the whole time was spent "anti-magic'd", is it just me or does this seem a bit much to have a enemy in the game where you are completely utterly unable to do anything no matter your level / powers / defences.

    And if this is going to be the case WHY DON"T THEY RUN OUT OF MANA ! ?

    If I at level 20 kept a non-stop stream of anything going I would be out of spell points in about 1 minute. Why do enemies get unlimited SP ?

    And also, I thought Dungeon scaling would be in effect whereby the bartender would not fill the bar in the 10 seconds I was stunned for ? . . . . . . . . .

    I really cannot express how frustrating this is. Beholders are very overpowered that they can do this, funnily enough, any other beholder in any other quest including the hound does not maintain that kind of anti-magic stream ....

    Did the devs just hit the "you lose" button or something.

    /endrant
    So what? You failed at the very beginning of the quest, it's not like you solo'd Elite Small Problem at level and Branwpits dies in the end fight because he got neg leveled to death, after 30 mins spent in this quest.

  9. #29
    Community Member psi0nix's Avatar
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    My first post was a "rant", as a later post stated, it was have a little rage on the forums after going through a particularly frustrating quest attempt.

    It's funny because I have solo'd this same quest on my sorc (previous life), with one major difference, I didn't have to fight the first batch of beholders, part of the loss was not being prepared to fight them as I had assumed the drinking content would go well and there would be no need.

    I don't mind being "defeated" in a quest, it's all part of the game, but I have always gone down with a fight, but this time it was just running round like a chicken with it's head cut off, while the beholders anti-magic'd me.

    It's the being rendered unable to fight back in any way, I mean I could go and beat them with my scepter's but something tells me that won't do much.

    There is very little I find in this game that is as frustrating as just being unable to fight back, it's like the "improved trip" or "stun" type moves that render you unable to fight, except this doesen't let up for a single second, it just felt like I didn't have a fighting chance.

    It's clear there a couple who have some comprehension problems with what a "rant" is, perhaps a dictionary lookup would help you. But of course they must also be the ones who have never experienced frustration to the point where you felt you just had to rant on the forums.

    If you read the original post the "sweeping" changes I called for are in relation to the beholders either running out of spell points or at least having to recharge for a second, just one second long enough to get one spell cast, or perhaps remove the ability of them to cast through walls floors etc, at one point I was at the shrine on the first floor of the building, at this time I was being "anti-magic'd" through the top floor through the wall and through the shrine which I was cowering behind.


    There is only one other "thing" that I have come across that can cast through walls and that is the wizard skel in wizKing, which I do believe is a glitch to do with the door.

  10. #30
    Community Member kuroi-koibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psi0nix View Post
    It's clear there a couple who have some comprehension problems with what a "rant" is, perhaps a dictionary lookup would help you.
    Perhaps OP doesn't understand what a "forum" is.
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  11. #31
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroi-koibito View Post
    Perhaps OP doesn't understand what a "forum" is.
    Heh, yeah next time OP write an email to your mom detailing your frustrations.

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    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  12. #32
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    You mean theres actually one quest in the game where its better off to GROUP than it is to SOLO?

    Please, mother of god Turbine, put more of these in the game.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  13. #33
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    OP -

    Comon...seriously? really? Melees have problems soloing anything end game and you're complaining because your caster can't solo one quest?

    Beholders are the best monsters in the game...they are always a threat. I think there should be more monsters with anti-magic abilities. Casters need more challenges.

    But there's plenty of ways to get the beholders. Get a WF melee hire that can't be neg leveled to help, run out of their range and insta death them, run out of their range and throw up CC and pike them into it, throw up disco ball and other CC before they start fighting. Or just use a hire to win the drinking contest so you don't have to fight them at all. It's ridiculous to ask for changes to one of the games' signature monsters just because they are giving you a challenge while you are soloing.
    Last edited by axel15810; 04-14-2012 at 03:10 PM.

  14. #34
    Community Member BitkaCK2's Avatar
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    Cool

    Worst case scenario, cast master's touch and grab a paralyzing or weakening of enfeebling great axe and swing baby swing.

    bitkaCK2
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by psi0nix View Post
    It's clear there a couple who have some comprehension problems with what a "rant" is,
    Labeling it a "rant" doesn't render it immune to criticism. If you don't want discussion or replies, post it on a blog or something.

  16. #36
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    Default A sorcerer, a wizard, and a beholder. Oh MY!

    This thread made me think of a tempest spine run from some years back. Hopefully it will bring a small smile to some.

    I was leveling a for fun concept build based on an old pnp PC. At the time of this story he was a 1/2/7 fighter/rogue/wiz drow with max int and heavy dex. I know right a dumped con wizard who likes to finesse melee while running around in fire walls with the typical defense spells on. Hey he was purely for fun and not about end game raids etc.

    Anyways so one night I see a Tempest spine elite run saying all welcome know your way byohs. Well I know TS since the days of Fernia Friday tempest spine streaking runs. Ah the days of naked revelry. Being an exotic build I send the leader a tell asking if they will mind a splash wizard for fun build. Guy is like hey man all welcome just come have fun and keep up best u can.

    My kind of party so I hop in and a few min later it fills up and we start gathering up inside so those in need can get fire res and haste before the first run. During this a pure sorc who was lvl 12 started to brag how he was going to insta kill everything and dominate the kill count etc.

    As I mentioned I was only 10 in this 10-12 lvl ranged group and only 7 in wizard. The sorc must of been doing the look everyone over bit and gets to me and starts speaking in that typical insulting I am a sorc with so much more SP then any wiz talk and ofcourse mocks my desire to actually have some ability to wield weapons to conserve spells. After all why just run around displaced in a fire wall when you can swing weapons to debuff them like improved curse or a w/p to help soften fort saves fast. Or my huge collection of finesse based dps weapons I built up over years of stubbornly playing finesse over strength.

    Anyways I just give a quick its a for fun first life in a multi wiz life plan and ignore him. a few others mention its a all welcome run in an indirect attempt to get the sorc to shut up about anothers build choice which i appreciated.

    So we begin the run. I notice during this phase since I tend to always play last man runner to try and toss sggestions on the fire els to keep them busy and help slow pokes not get over run. Dont know how but the sorc ended up dead, taking some path NO ONE else even considered trying to go, and I zip ina nd grab him and keep heading to the door. He doesnt even thank me but instead ask why he hadnt had fire res cast on him by one of the clerics. Everyone is like um you didnt ask when people had offered.

    So we move on, and to be fair the sorc hadnt been bragging out of turn, once he gets going he is i believe if I recall right PKing everything. Yeah I know PK right, seemed abit passe to me to, but he was getting things done faster then most could even try. I started just plinking with my wounding shuriken to soften up fort saves for him in the name of team work.

    But during this he is also going on endlessly about how great he is, how everyone else is just a piker etc. Guess that first death didnt count nor my retreival nor the cleric who had rezzed and then in an amazing act of tolerance even rebuffed the sorc.

    but then things get interesting. We reach the beholder in a nice timely manner. the sorc says he has this, walks up to the edge assuming a one shot insta win. and.....wait for it......

    Boom baby the beholder drops him the second he sticks his head in range. Funnier yet it was in just such a position and as he was moving that his soul stone slips down the edge into the beholders pit. A half dozen brave warriors quickly charge down to recover the fallen warrior and dispatch the beholder. Like a chime, ding ding ding ding ding ding as almost the entire melee section of the party falls to the beholder. This was elite after all and even one beholder on such at levle si worthy of thier fearsome rep.

    The party starts to get nervous. the rogue and remaining warriors, not to mention the clerics have no real feeling of success going down that hole.

    During all this, not one person even gives thought to the oddly built drow. Nor do they guess I am not some mere newb but a vet with a decent share of twink gear, including a pair of the highly prized optic nerves. And a festival frostburst/shocking burst short sword of greater abberation bane. I also am a real old school pnp wizard player.

    So I sneak up to the ledge, I dont only invest in trap skills on my splash rogues. I cast what is IMO aong the most mighty of spells although it is subtle and often unsung. Even as I do so the sorc is mocking me telling me I am about to die like the newb I am. What spell do I cast you might wonder? Well.......WAIT FOR IT!.......



    SUGGESTION! yes that is right a simple suggestion, and suddenly one of the dead warriors is like, Who ****ing party hatted the beholder? I didnt know they could be charmed. As I drop down the hole with blade in hand and yell for all to get clear of the beholder as I am about to dismiss the spell.

    Like rats from a sinking ship, the warning sends the recently slain and revived fleeing as if death himself has come, and maybe he had but not for them. I activated my rogue haste boost, dismissed and ina flurry, trusting in my trinkets power, cut through the beholder in moments with my potent blade forged for such purpose.

    As I climbed out of the hole, all the sorcerer could do was sit there ranting on in incoherent rage about how BS it was he got killed, how broken multi classing is, how BS it is suggestion works on non humanoids. Oh it went on.

    However to top it all off at the end the sorc got blown off by the giant, and landed surrounded by fire els and got incapped. As he lay there bleeding out everyone else recalled. I however am oldschool like I said. I leap down gliding towards the fallen fool. And just as he is about to hit -10, I yell be ready to run, throw an aid charge from a clicky, and suggest several of the nearest fire els, giving him the chance he needs to get up downa pot and get out of there as I hit him with haste and invis.

    The guy never did say thanks even for that, but at least I knew who the better adventurer really was, not to mention who was the real master of arcane might in that quest.

  17. #37

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    We don't balance elite quests for solo play. This is by design.
    From dev meeting: "It's fun to fail!"
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    We don't balance elite quests for solo play. This is by design.
    Sure, but at least in the past the first battle of Delirium elite was balanced for nobody. The day after it came out I went in with a party and started the drinking game...

    after FORTY minutes the beholders were still drinking. I think the numbers have been tweaked somewhat since then, but maybe not enough.

  19. #39
    The Hatchery danotmano1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    We don't balance elite quests for solo play. This is by design.
    +1

    Thanks for pointing out the (maybe not quite so) painfully obvious point the OP may have missed entirely.
    <-Curelite Bottling Company->

    Quote Originally Posted by Chilldude
    Dude, did you see they way that guy just pressed button 1? It was amazing! A display of skill unseen since the 1984 World Games where in the men's room, between events, a man washed his hands with such unbridled majesty that people were claiming the faucet he used was OP.

  20. #40
    Community Member brian14's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanquishedfo View Post
    So I sneak up to the ledge, I dont only invest in trap skills on my splash rogues. I cast what is IMO aong the most mighty of spells although it is subtle and often unsung. Even as I do so the sorc is mocking me telling me I am about to die like the newb I am. What spell do I cast you might wonder? Well.......WAIT FOR IT!.......



    SUGGESTION! yes that is right a simple suggestion, and suddenly one of the dead warriors is like, Who ****ing party hatted the beholder? I didnt know they could be charmed. As I drop down the hole with blade in hand and yell for all to get clear of the beholder as I am about to dismiss the spell.

    Like rats from a sinking ship, the warning sends the recently slain and revived fleeing as if death himself has come, and maybe he had but not for them. I activated my rogue haste boost, dismissed and ina flurry, trusting in my trinkets power, cut through the beholder in moments with my potent blade forged for such purpose.
    Great story!

    I will have to remember this trick!
    "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

    "Of course it is. Are YOU going to question beholder's artistic sense?"

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