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  1. #1
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Default Weekend Warriors #1 - Shadow Princess (elf THF ftr 12 / barb 6 / rogue 2)

    WARNING: flavor build is flavor. Minmaxers need not apply.

    This is the first in what I intend to be an ongoing series of build posts. The goal / personal challenge is to come up with F2P-friendly builds for newcomers or those with limited resources who are looking for something a bit off the beaten path from all the (very good) cookie-cutter builds out there (inc. my own). The idea, as you may have inferred from the title, is to come up with at least one build each week so that people can try them over the weekend if they're interested. We'll see how long it takes before I either run out of ideas or get bored of doing this.

    Self-imposed constraints for the Weekend Warriors: 28 pts, F2P classes & races (probably drow too, as it's not hard to unlock them as F2P), modest gear & tome requirements (ideally none). Essentially the idea is these builds are something anyone can try, even someone brand-new to DDO.

    I doubt any of these builds will be minmaxed - partly because minmaxing bores me, mostly because others are a lot better at it than I am - but hopefully none will be truly gimped either. Normally I post my builds somewhere in the Classes forums, but it's been suggested to me I put my F2P builds in the free forums instead, so the unwashed masses - errr, F2P players - can comment on them too, so that's what I've done.

    This is an updated version of a build I did about a year ago, posted in honor of the pointy-eared lass with the honkin' big sword who's currently showing up in the DDO splash screen and on the DDO front page. Can't remember why I nicknamed her "Princess" - Xena reference, perhaps? Running around half-naked is optional.

    Build goals: a Dragonmarked THF elf using falchions with UMD and Evasion. Ftr 12 / Kensai II brings the feats & DPS, barb 6 adds +10% run speed and Rage for more DPS & HPs, rogue 2 brings UMD & Evasion. Apart from flavor and a cool glowing tattoo, Least DM (Invisibility) adds a stealth option while Lesser DM (Displacement) boosts her survivability; Greater DM (Shadow Walk) is optional, but I find it helpful for, e.g., zerging thru wilderness areas to get to quest locations.

    NOTE: in order to take the Dragonmarks, you must first complete the Hall of the Mark quest with a character on that server (doesn't have to be the one you plan to add DMs to, though). Once you do, the DMs become available to all your chars on that server.

    So without further ado, here is the build:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    Character Planner Home Page
    
    Shadow Princess
    Level 20 True Neutral Elf Female
    (12 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 2 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 326
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 15
    Reflex: 10
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity            12                    12
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               5                     8
    Bluff                -1                     1
    Concentration         2                     4
    Diplomacy            -1                     1
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  1                     3
    Intimidate           -1                     1
    Jump                  8                    12
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         5                     5
    Open Lock             5                     5
    Perform              n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                     1
    Spot                  3                     5
    Swim                  4                     8
    Tumble                2                     2
    Use Magic Device      3                    22
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+3)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
    Enhancement: Kensei Falchion Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+3)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow (or Stunning Blow or Skill Focus: Use Magic Device)
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
    Enhancement: Kensei Falchion Mastery II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
    Enhancement: Fighter Falchion Specialization I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1.5)
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    Let's address the drawbacks first off:

    • -2 CON is never a good thing, but it's particularly annoying on barbs, IMHO, as it shortens your Rage duration and puts you that much closer to death when using Frenzy. If I had more APs to spare, I definitely would've added barb CON I&II and/or more Toughness enhs.
    • The best 2H named weapons in DDO aren't falchions: e.g., Carnifex, (epic) Sword of Shadow, (epic) Elemental Greataxe of Fire. You can respec enhs to take advantage of whatever's your best 2H weapon at the time, but falchions are the only ones which elves have a bonus to. [Not that there's anything wrong with making a Lit2 falchion your main weapon...]
    • If I combined the Shadow DMs with a caster class (maybe taking paladin instead of barb), I'd be able to add the Extend feat, which would double the duration of the DMs free. But for this build, barb fit the intended flavor better; plus I need the extra skill pts to max out UMD.
    • Reflex saves are on the low side for an Evasion build, so you'll definitely want to invest in gear & buffs which boost it. E.g., Heroism pots or clickies early, a Planar Gird for Greater Heroism; Stability item, Crimson Chain, or Parasitic Breastplate upgraded with +10 Reflex.

    Now for some other comments:

    • If you want to add Intimidate to this build too, I would start DEX 10 INT 10 and put the extra skill pts into Intim every level.
    • Greater DM of Shadow adds Shadow Walk and 1 extra use of Lesser DM; Stunning Blow adds an extra CC option to her, esp. if you keep a Stunning maul handy for such occasions; while SF:UMD gives +3 UMD to help her hit the magic UMD 39 (no-fail Heal scrolls) a little bit sooner. Frankly, it's a tough call for me as to which is more useful, which is why I punted and gave the player the option of choosing which they wanted.
    • EDIT (4/13/12): Dyyvyyd suggested taking a bard splash instead of rogue. You'd lose Evasion, 1D6+3 sneak atk, and some skill pts; but gain immediate access to bard wands (e.g., Cures, Blur, etc.), two lvl 1 bard spells (e.g., Expeditious Retreat & Focusing Chant), and a couple uses of Inspire Courage (not much of a buff, but better than none). Not a big fan of bard splashes myself, but I mention it here as an alternative.

    More to follow later...
    Last edited by unbongwah; 04-13-2012 at 07:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Ralmeth asked how to squeeze in Extend to double the duration of the Shadow DMs (particularly Displacement). My reply: swap barb for paladin and trade Cleave for Extend. There are a few other perks to going pally: access to pally wands early on (like Cures and energy resist) for earlier self-sufficiency, higher saves from Divine Grace (really helps out Reflex saves, making Evasion more useful), fear & disease immunity, Divine Favor (+2/+2 at pally lvl 6), etc. Smite Evil & Divine Sacrifice also mesh well with falchions.

    Downsides: lower base CON & HPs, losing +10% run speed, Lawful Good has a few drawbacks, dropped base DEX to 10 (although Divine Grace more than makes up for the -1 Reflex save), needs +2 CHA tome to take Divine Might I. [Skip DM I unless & until you get that tome.]

    Basically, my feeling is barb 6 provides a bigger boost to DPS while Raged & Frenzied, but pally 6 does more to help her survivability.
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.11.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Holy Shadow Princess
    Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
    (12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 304
    Spell Points: 70 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 12
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             18                    26
    Dexterity            10                    10
    Constitution         12                    12
    Intelligence         10                    10
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               4                    11
    Bluff                 1                     4
    Concentration         1                     3
    Diplomacy             1                     4
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                5                     6
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  0                     2
    Intimidate            1                     4
    Jump                  8                    12
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         4                     4
    Open Lock             4                     4
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                0                     0
    Search                0                     2
    Spot                  3                     5
    Swim                  4                     8
    Tumble                4                     4
    Use Magic Device      5                    25
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Move Silently (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 3 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 4 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 7 (Paladin)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Paladin)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
    Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+7)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use III
    Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use IV
    Enhancement: Kensei Falchion Mastery I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Kensei Falchion Mastery II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
    Enhancement: Fighter Falchion Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    I show her as being specced for KotC I, but I find HotD I to be more useful early on: +10% heal amp and free Ghost Touch helps while running all those undead-heay mid-lvl quests (e.g., Deleras, Necropolis, etc.). So I would start with HotD I, then respec into KotC I after you start facing evil outsiders more often.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 04-13-2012 at 07:50 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member whereispowderedsilve's Avatar
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    Default Great initiative unb!

    Great initiative unb! Added it the compilation of 12/6/2 builds!(With your permission of course!)

    Keep up the great work! Have a great long weekend! Don't work to hard! :P! !

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=368268
    http://dillonpfaff5.wix.com/theob Sign this!!!: http://goo.gl/vS6htg

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  4. #4
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    Can easily be converted to a halfling template with healing marks too; doesn't take the con penalty and will have a more reliable evasion, and even while you won't have devotion enhancements the marks can hit pretty high with just ardor and amp gear. Since you have umd, displacement can be scrolled for 30s at a time, which, while less convenient, is not going to run out as long as you keep your scroll stack high - same goes for invisibility, especially with clickies. THF isn't a great synergy with halfling sneak damage, but they'll nonetheless be pretty similar in terms of damage output. Rage preventing magic item use may make this configuration awkward, however.
    Last edited by FrozenNova; 04-06-2012 at 04:39 PM.
    Unfamiliar with DDO's combat mechanics? Check here and here.

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The gimpy DMed halflings are saved for another day / thread / build. And I prefer to mix them with rgrs or pallies so you can pick up some Devotion and metamagics. Plus you can't use DMs while Raged, so a self-healing halfling barb who can't self-heal half the time is of somewhat...limited value.

    Besides, midgets with giant swords just look silly when running around half-naked!

  6. #6
    Community Member Sleepsalot's Avatar
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    Really this topic belong under the Builds Section. I feel a New player would just get lost looking at it..
    Sleeps

  7. #7
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Perhaps so, but the advantage to posting here is F2Pers can post questions if they're confused; IIRC, they can't do that in the Classes forums. Like I said, someone pointed out to me that posting F2P builds in a forum where F2Pers can't post was somewhat counter-productive...

  8. #8
    Community Member Sleepsalot's Avatar
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    Well that can be true also but new players need to learn the game some before the worry about a end Game type Build. I feel this can leave more doubt.. Just my thoughts..
    Sleeps

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Perhaps so, but the advantage to posting here is F2Pers can post questions if they're confused; IIRC, they can't do that in the Classes forums. Like I said, someone pointed out to me that posting F2P builds in a forum where F2Pers can't post was somewhat counter-productive...

  9. #9
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Interesting build. I like it. If you preferred to pick up extend so your displacement clickies last twice as long, how would you do the build?
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler - Sarlona
    Vyyndar Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin - Argo

  10. #10
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralmeth View Post
    If you preferred to pick up extend so your displacement clickies last twice as long, how would you do the build?
    You'd need a casting class, natch. Probably replace barb lvls with either: (A) rgr and switch to TWF (altho at that pt they might prefer my F2P Ranged Monster w/DMs); or (B) pally (tho skill pts & CHA become an issue - probably drop base stats to 16 / 10 / 14 / 10 / 8 / 14). Either way, swap Cleave for Extend. Or if someone had artificer unlocked (and nothing else), they could replace rogue with arty, though again skill pts might be an issue; you'd also lose Evasion.

  11. #11
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    I really like both the idea behind this and the build itself. People shouldn't be locked into cookie-cutter buidls just because they lack 32 point builds and premium races/classes. This build isn't min-maxed, but it's really solid for a quasi-flavor build and should be a lot of fun. Nice work!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero View Post
    One day I just wrote "Why Do I Die So Much?" in party chat, and that is how I learned about fortification.

  12. #12
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    The goal / personal challenge is to come up with F2P-friendly builds for newcomers or those with limited resources who are looking for something a bit off the beaten path from all the (very good) cookie-cutter builds out there (inc. my own).
    I'm not sure how much I would call this a newcomer friendly build. For starters, those two rogue levels are basically wasted. The build's reflex save will never be sufficiently high to make much use of evasion even with gear. Same thing goes for UMD. Newcomers simply won't have the gear necessary to make use of either. You also completely skip over trapping skills which will be necessary since the reflex save won't just allow you to walk through traps.

    Also as a heads-up, the Parasitic Breastplate is not from a F2P quest. It is part of the P2P Harbringer of Madness chain.
    Ryiah | Raeyah | Reikara
    Toy Soldiers

  13. #13
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    The build's reflex save will never be sufficiently high to make much use of evasion even with gear.
    I already cited low Reflex saves as an issue. But let's look at what it can hit at lvl 20:

    10 base (w/base DEX 12)
    3 +6 DEX item
    4 morale (Greater Heroism)
    5 Resistance (6 if Superior Stability)
    2 luck
    24 base Reflex (26 vs traps)
    6 Improved Uncanny Dodge
    30 short-term Reflex

    As you say, that's a little underwhelming; but this is with fairly ordinary gear. If we push it a bit further and invest some APs into boosting them:

    5 Parasitic Breastplate w/+10 Reflex
    1 +2 DEX tome
    1 +2 ship buff
    1 +2 DEX Yugo pot
    1 +2 elf DEX enhs
    33 base Reflex (39 w/IUD)
    4 barb Improved Trap Sense II
    39 vs traps (45 w/IUD)

    Did I miss any bonuses?

    Naturally, it would take quite a bit of effort to get Reflex that high; but I think mid-to-upper 30s counts as sufficiently high to be useful at endgame. Also let's bear in mind that the sort of person this build is aimed at is more likely to play on Normal or Hard, not Elite; as such, the Reflex requirements are more modest.
    Same thing goes for UMD. Newcomers simply won't have the gear necessary to make use of either.
    UMD is one of those skills which, even if you don't hit the magic 39, is still useful while leveling, especially if you don't have a lot of twink gear. At UMD 14, you can start bypassing racial restrictions on equipment; at 20, you bypass alignment too. That's important if you're just gearing up and need to be able to make use of whatever you find. UMD 19 is when you can start using lvl 1 wands; e.g., CLW for emergencies, Shield for magic missile immunity. And so forth.
    You also completely skip over trapping skills which will be necessary since the reflex save won't just allow you to walk through traps.
    I never said this was a soloing build. And vets are constantly insisting that neither Evasion nor trap skills are necessary for soloing...once you know how to avoid them, that is.

  14. #14
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Naturally, it would take quite a bit of effort to get Reflex that high; but I think mid-to-upper 30s counts as sufficiently high to be useful at endgame. Also let's bear in mind that the sort of person this build is aimed at is more likely to play on Normal or Hard, not Elite; as such, the Reflex requirements are more modest.
    You mention Yugoloth potions. I know it needs 75 favor, but I'm not positive you can get that on just Hard difficulty. I know you can't do it with just Normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    UMD 19 is when you can start using lvl 1 wands; e.g., CLW for emergencies, Shield for magic missile immunity.
    If you're in a situation where healing is important, a CLW is unlikely to be sufficient. It might work for topping off in-between battles to reduce the load on the healer(s) but you're better off just chugging potions over a CLW wand.

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I never said this was a soloing build. And vets are constantly insisting that neither Evasion nor trap skills are necessary for soloing...once you know how to avoid them, that is.
    Neither is necessary to complete a quest on Normal difficulty. A newcomer is unlikely to be running Elite difficulty by themselves. On normal difficulty the traps really shouldn't be dealing that much damage. You'll likely take more from popping an exploding barrel by mistake.
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  15. #15
    Community Member Cardtrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    You mention Yugoloth potions. I know it needs 75 favor, but I'm not positive you can get that on just Hard difficulty. I know you can't do it with just Normal.
    No -- you can't do it on just Hard. I think the most approachable way to do it is Elite Sins, Elite New Invasion, Hard Bastion, Hard Genesis Point, Normal ToD. At least on Cannith, Sins is pretty much the only one I ever see available at Elite on the LFM panel. New Invasion is the easiest to solo on elite for most builds (some may prefer
    Bastion). Bastion and Genesis Point are very solo-able on hard (with a hireling, of course), although Genesis Point can be annoying. It's pretty easy to get into a normal ToD run, even on a 28-point first lifer, but higher difficulties are harder to find outside of guild runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryiah View Post
    If you're in a situation where healing is important, a CLW is unlikely to be sufficient. It might work for topping off in-between battles to reduce the load on the healer(s) but you're better off just chugging potions over a CLW wand.
    This I partly agree with -- UMDing for healing isn't worth much until you can get to around a 75% chance with a Heal scroll.

    However, I max UMD on every character I play, even when it's cross-class, because even a low UMD is still incredibly valuable. Having a good chance to to scroll fire shield, for example, makes Shroud far easier to handle with low HP, and makes things like Enter the Kobold or SoS much more easily soloable. Being able to scroll raise dead, even without 100% chance of success, can save a PUG when the healer dies. Teleport, even with a relatively low chance of success, is wonderfully convenient.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero View Post
    One day I just wrote "Why Do I Die So Much?" in party chat, and that is how I learned about fortification.

  16. #16
    Community Member Ryiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardtrick View Post
    New Invasion is the easiest to solo on elite for most builds (some may prefer Bastion). Bastion and Genesis Point are very solo-able on hard (with a hireling, of course), although Genesis Point can be annoying.
    You may be missing the point I'm trying to make though. This build is being touted as viable for people without 32-point builds and without the P2P races/classes and even for people brand new to DDO. The reality is this build isn't going to be enjoyable on high difficulties without a lot of gear that someone new to the game simply won't have. If you're at the point where you're able to get into groups for Elite Amrath (and not just be a piker because you're useless), chances are likely you'll already have hit 1750 favor and have unlocked 32-point access.

    Were it me, I'd drop the 12 Dex in favor of 12 Int. I'd grab Spot because even if you can't disable the traps at least seeing where they are will help you to avoid them a bit better. I'd probably also grab Balance as being on your back from being tripped can quickly get annoying. You'll still get tripped a lot but at least you'll be getting back up quickly.
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    What about using a Bard for UMD? It'll open up Extend feat and earlier wand healing at a sacrifice of Evasion and low lvl disarm and open lock...

  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyyvyyd View Post
    What about using a Bard for UMD? It'll open up Extend feat and earlier wand healing at a sacrifice of Evasion and low lvl disarm and open lock...
    I'm not a big fan of bard splashes for some reason, but it's certainly an option. You'd also get two lvl 1 bard spells - say, Expeditious Retreat for +25% run speed (mixes well w/barb +10% run speed) and Focusing Chant - and a couple uses of Inspire Courage (not much of a buff, but better than none). You'll have to be careful about when you take the second bard level to make sure you have enough skill pts to max UMD, though. For those who think Reflex saves will be too low for Evasion to do any good, it's worth considering.

  19. #19
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    I've added a pally-based build to the second post, which boosts saves, lets me add Extend to double the duration of the Shadow DMs, and has a few other perks.

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    sorry if i "resurrect" this old post but i'm a new (F2P) ddo player and i like this build idea (DM Elf with Falcion) .. so i would ask if someone, more experienced than me, can upgrade the build with the last game updates .. TYVM

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