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  1. #61
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    Going to simply ignore most of what has been posted in here. Sorry to the people who really wanted to see an all out brawl.

    Tank tax? I assume that you mean payment for being healed? Most of the times I tank I ask people to bring scrolls. I have never demanded it - unless they are a rogue/bard/arti who wants to heal me, and the one time that someone wanted to but didn't have the money I bought them 100 heal scrolls.

    I don't pay DPS for repair bills, no one pays my tanks for the epic items I had to buy/trade for so I could make the raid go smoother. I don't EVER expect payment on my healers or my tanks, though I always say that people owe me their scrolls.

    My one response to Ish:

    We asked you to leave the channel after you got into fights with people over how they were playing their characters, and how we were teaching new people.

    To everyone else:

    We go into far too much detail at every stage of every raid even if only one person is new when we are teaching raids. We do this so they understand what is going on instead of just doing it. I explain how to tank most things in case people want to try tanking some day, the healers oft explain their little tricks, and we keep communication very open for questions.

    We do not bash people for doing something wrong, we had a mix up in eChrono last week but everyone came out ok and no one was mad in the end. That is the point of this channel. Help new people learn how to play at end game. We are not here to critique builds, if you want to have a build looked that or just have questions that is fine, or insult someone for not having epic gear. Unless you cheated, you did not hit 20 with epic gear on your first character.

    We are still looking for people who are interested in raiding, and will almost always be expanding.


    Side note:

    Sorry for the declining without sending a tell, I'd already sent an in game message, but I felt I should tell people at large that I normally do respond when declining as I prefer knowing why I get declined.

  2. #62
    Community Member Isharah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    I don't EVER expect payment on my healers or my tanks, though I always say that people owe me their scrolls.
    How generous of you. Hek.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    My one response to Ish:

    We asked you to leave the channel after you got into fights with people over how they were playing their characters, and how we were teaching new people.
    "Fights" with "people", "they", "characters". I was told it should be more colorful. Context: conversation started when someone said that it's okay for a new guy to get LoB aggro as long as he knew what to do with it. I (and someone else) disagreed with this, and the screenshot kicks in.

    Anyhow. I know I really should shut up now. Made my point, getting tired of messing around here anyway.

    P.S.
    Minmaxing elitist, /flex!
    Last edited by Isharah; 04-25-2012 at 03:08 PM.
    Isharah(water savant) | Moooo I'm a Turtle(turtle tank) | Darlene(typical healer wannabe)

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isharah View Post
    How generous of you. Hek.



    "Fights" with "people", "they", "characters". I was told it should be more colorful. Context: conversation started when someone said that it's okay for a new guy to get LoB aggro as long as he knew what to do with it. I (and someone else) disagreed with this, and the screenshot kicks in.

    Anyhow. I know I really should shut up now. Made my point, getting tired of messing around here anyway.

    P.S.
    Minmaxing elitist, /flex!
    So, that is called sarcasm, see I can teach everyone!

    I am the blue one in that screenshot just to clarify for everyone. I got a tell that there were issues so I went to check it out. I asked what was happening, asked why teaching was a problem, etc.

    You choose to leave the channel instead of talking it out. I was not upset to see you go. I just don't think you fit in with the people who were in there. When we see someone mess up in one of our raids, we tell them and ask them to correct it. It sounds like you threaten to kill them, from what people have told me.

    Just a question, you really take screen shots of fights you have?

  4. #64
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    for a scheduled LoB learning run!
    For tomorrow, in around 18 hours (just compute off the time of the post).
    Send an in-game mail to Ntalie please, as she'll be running the raid.

    There will be pie!

  5. #65
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isharah View Post
    *learns the definition*

    Yep, it's a PUG.

    Filtered though, but I guess it's a given considering the difficulty of the raid.

    Now whether it so happened that the people who expressed interest in joining are friends or not is a different story. I'm sorry it's not our fault that we have a handful of friends. But the group was open to everyone who expressed interest and was actually useful (i.e. minxmaxing elitists -- phrase of the day ).
    You do realize that this entire post is one continuous oxymoron.

  6. #66
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunnyshadow View Post
    for a scheduled LoB learning run!
    For tomorrow, in around 18 hours (just compute off the time of the post).
    Send an in-game mail to Ntalie please, as she'll be running the raid.

    There will be pie!
    Do I need to be a rogue?

  7. #67
    Community Member Madryoch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    So, that is called sarcasm, see I can teach everyone!

    I am the blue one in that screenshot just to clarify for everyone. I got a tell that there were issues so I went to check it out. I asked what was happening, asked why teaching was a problem, etc.

    You choose to leave the channel instead of talking it out. I was not upset to see you go. I just don't think you fit in with the people who were in there. When we see someone mess up in one of our raids, we tell them and ask them to correct it. It sounds like you threaten to kill them, from what people have told me.

    Just a question, you really take screen shots of fights you have?
    What i see there is one person arguing with another and u getting between them without u having any idea what's going on. I don't see fighting with ''people'' just 1 person. On top of that that's not fighting. Also note that someone happens to agree with what she is saying while the other person has no supporters. So basicaly u come into the chat speak ur part without having a clue what's going on jumping into conclusions of ur own and acting the way you did.

    Other than that u ve been in our parties and we ve never EVER threatened anyyone if they make mistakes ... in fact we made learning runs way before u decided to make that channel.We try to teach people how things SHOULD be done and not to jump into a hellish situation and tell em now that u are here go solve ur issues. Like abbot first timers welcome. We don't however tell people that it's perfectly okay when they fail. We let them know that they failed, then we make sure to tell them how to not fail next time. I guess that's what other people mean by us not being nice. Simply , we don't pat people in the back when they do something stupid but try to explain to them in a decent manner why what they did was stupid and how to correct it.
    Rilynrae of the Eclipse - lvl 20 Sorceress,Deneria Daughter of Dragons - lvl 12 Paladin 1 Ranger 7 Monk Intimihate Tank both of guild V'''''V Rego Vitae
    ''Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience''

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madryoch View Post
    What i see there is one person arguing with another and u getting between them without u having any idea what's going on. I don't see fighting with ''people'' just 1 person. On top of that that's not fighting. Also note that someone happens to agree with what she is saying while the other person has no supporters. So basicaly u come into the chat speak ur part without having a clue what's going on jumping into conclusions of ur own and acting the way you did.

    Other than that u ve been in our parties and we ve never EVER threatened anyyone if they make mistakes ... in fact we made learning runs way before u decided to make that channel.We try to teach people how things SHOULD be done and not to jump into a hellish situation and tell em now that u are here go solve ur issues. Like abbot first timers welcome. We don't however tell people that it's perfectly okay when they fail. We let them know that they failed, then we make sure to tell them how to not fail next time. I guess that's what other people mean by us not being nice. Simply , we don't pat people in the back when they do something stupid but try to explain to them in a decent manner why what they did was stupid and how to correct it.
    I stepped into an argument going on in a channel I'd promised to keep civil, ya. I received multiple tells from people asking me to do something because the channel was getting dramatic. When I got involved, I had no idea who either you or your wife, Ish, were. To be honest, I didn't care.

    When I read "are you sure you should be talking to me like that?" as if she is some god above us, yeah, I got a bit angrier. This is a channel of equals. I'll not have people lording over others due to experience. Not all of the older players are the best, they are just the most set in their ways.

    Can we just end this Rily/Ish? I'm really sick of arguing on the forums.

    You guys agreed to leave, let's leave it at that. No one will go out of their way to inflame this from my end, please do the same.

  9. #69
    Community Member gravestones's Avatar
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    You know, normally I ignore these threads.
    Over Raided members, in particular, who are brave enough to post are unfairly targeted simply because of their guild association.
    Unfortunately, racism by any other name appears to be tolerated - guildism is not okay.

    However, I am compelled to post due to the apparent stigma at the mentioning of a "tank tax".
    Anytime you receive a service, from which you benefit, you SHOULD feel obliged to pay...why is free-loading okay?
    Very often healers are compensated for the pots they consume during a raid.
    Extending this dogma to the contributions of other classes is only natural, and legitimate.

    Because of the many malformed opinions within this forum, the "tank tax" has become something of a "Fight Club" issue - yet it exists whether some like it or not.
    Extolling the virtues of the tank tax, or training tax, or raid-salvage tax is useless.
    Enough of my guildmates have complained about the negative treatment they receive, whenever they mention it to the pug raid they just saved from failure to make it clear you cannot educate the unwashed masses...they just want a hand-out.
    Not only that, they don't want to have to feel guilty about it either.

    Pugs should pay, whenever they benefit from the expertise and resource expenditure of more senior and experienced players.
    Undeniably, the Pug community must accept that they owe a debt to the server elite for helping them finish raids and get gear that they are otherwise unable to access and unworthy to wield.
    Nowhere does it say that we must heal, and tank, and dot, and kite, and solve puzzles in your ineptly slapped together raids for you for free.
    Know that the next time you form a Pug begging for the assistance of a properly geared tanker, or more healers, or high DC CC wizard, or for a shadow tanker or LoB kiter, you effectively owe for that service.
    Expecting the raiding elite to bail you out for free is worse than being lazy or ignorant, you are effectively roleplaying a useless parasite.
    Don't expect us to help you "on the house" anymore...at best, you may qualify for a small discount.

  10. #70
    Community Member ChadB123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    Just a question, you really take screen shots of fights you have?
    I do that myself. Its nice to go back after you've calmed down and realize one of two things: 1. WOW! I really was a jerk - or - 2. WOW! What an idiot.

    Personally, my screenshots have only confirmed what I had thought before...that the person is a big idiot.
    Epicsoul(7th life) 20 druid - Deathdemize(6th life) 20wizard - Haiteraid(4th life) TR'ing - Epicbanjo(2nd life) 14bard4ftr2rogue.

    Member of Over Raided!

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravestones View Post
    You know, normally I ignore these threads.
    Over Raided members, in particular, who are brave enough to post are unfairly targeted simply because of their guild association.
    Unfortunately, racism by any other name appears to be tolerated - guildism is not okay.

    However, I am compelled to post due to the apparent stigma at the mentioning of a "tank tax".
    Anytime you receive a service, from which you benefit, you SHOULD feel obliged to pay...why is free-loading okay?
    Very often healers are compensated for the pots they consume during a raid.
    Extending this dogma to the contributions of other classes is only natural, and legitimate.

    Because of the many malformed opinions within this forum, the "tank tax" has become something of a "Fight Club" issue - yet it exists whether some like it or not.
    Extolling the virtues of the tank tax, or training tax, or raid-salvage tax is useless.
    Enough of my guildmates have complained about the negative treatment they receive, whenever they mention it to the pug raid they just saved from failure to make it clear you cannot educate the unwashed masses...they just want a hand-out.
    Not only that, they don't want to have to feel guilty about it either.

    Pugs should pay, whenever they benefit from the expertise and resource expenditure of more senior and experienced players.
    Undeniably, the Pug community must accept that they owe a debt to the server elite for helping them finish raids and get gear that they are otherwise unable to access and unworthy to wield.
    Nowhere does it say that we must heal, and tank, and dot, and kite, and solve puzzles in your ineptly slapped together raids for you for free.
    Know that the next time you form a Pug begging for the assistance of a properly geared tanker, or more healers, or high DC CC wizard, or for a shadow tanker or LoB kiter, you effectively owe for that service.
    Expecting the raiding elite to bail you out for free is worse than being lazy or ignorant, you are effectively roleplaying a useless parasite.
    Don't expect us to help you "on the house" anymore...at best, you may qualify for a small discount.
    Hear that guys? You all owe me a LOT of epic scrolls.

    But seriously, I disagree with everything you posted. No one I run with will ever have to pay me anything just because I'm better geared than you.

    Also, we aren't asking the raiding elite to help us in any way. If you want to rant, go do so. This thread has nothing to do with what you're stating. If you wish to charge for your godly services, do so.

  12. #72
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masadique View Post
    Also, we aren't asking the raiding elite to help us in any way. If you want to rant, go do so. This thread has nothing to do with what you're stating. If you wish to charge for your godly services, do so.
    Amazingly said. It is an open channel folks. If you want to join the raid, or run, or whatever, then you are welcome to do so of your own accord. Join the channel, get along, get going, and lets have some fun together, just some gamers trying to enjoy a game with people we know and maybe people we want to get to know more of.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravestones View Post
    stuff about "tank tax"
    wait wait wait...there's a "tank tax"?!? the first HoX (and every subsequent one) on my still somewhat poorly geared paladin, i tanked. the first TOD on my paladin... i tanked shadowmaster and Horoth. the first LoB attempt on my paladin i tanked (lag wipe). the first ToD (and every subsequent one) on my modestly geared wizard, i shadowtanked. heck, the last ToD i ran with her, i tanked Sully too, because the group decided not to do optional (i don't remember why. we probably could have gotten it no problem)
    i am totally owed some **** by now!

    but really, i've been on a few of Verlichte's learning runs, and it's not a case of the elite few carrying a boatload of clueless n00bs. he takes great pains to make sure every role is filled either by someone with experience, or someone willing to listen and follow directions, and he explains everything in detail. all in all, when everyone listens, things usually go smoothly, and even when we fail, things were learned.

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  14. #74
    Community Member Vengeance777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravestones View Post
    You know, normally I ignore these threads.
    Over Raided members, in particular, who are brave enough to post are unfairly targeted simply because of their guild association.
    Unfortunately, racism by any other name appears to be tolerated - guildism is not okay.

    However, I am compelled to post due to the apparent stigma at the mentioning of a "tank tax".
    Anytime you receive a service, from which you benefit, you SHOULD feel obliged to pay...why is free-loading okay?
    Very often healers are compensated for the pots they consume during a raid.
    Extending this dogma to the contributions of other classes is only natural, and legitimate.

    Because of the many malformed opinions within this forum, the "tank tax" has become something of a "Fight Club" issue - yet it exists whether some like it or not.
    Extolling the virtues of the tank tax, or training tax, or raid-salvage tax is useless.
    Enough of my guildmates have complained about the negative treatment they receive, whenever they mention it to the pug raid they just saved from failure to make it clear you cannot educate the unwashed masses...they just want a hand-out.
    Not only that, they don't want to have to feel guilty about it either.

    Pugs should pay, whenever they benefit from the expertise and resource expenditure of more senior and experienced players.
    Undeniably, the Pug community must accept that they owe a debt to the server elite for helping them finish raids and get gear that they are otherwise unable to access and unworthy to wield.
    Nowhere does it say that we must heal, and tank, and dot, and kite, and solve puzzles in your ineptly slapped together raids for you for free.
    Know that the next time you form a Pug begging for the assistance of a properly geared tanker, or more healers, or high DC CC wizard, or for a shadow tanker or LoB kiter, you effectively owe for that service.
    Expecting the raiding elite to bail you out for free is worse than being lazy or ignorant, you are effectively roleplaying a useless parasite.
    Don't expect us to help you "on the house" anymore...at best, you may qualify for a small discount.



    In all seriousness though can someone please explain what these raid taxes are? Never encountered them on Orien before. Are they normal on the other servers?

    I've heard of donating pots at the end of a raid that goes bad to healers but never heard of anyone charging for their services before. Is that what the tax is?


    Edit: And back to the original topic. I commend you guys for starting a raid teaching channel. Hope all goes well and it helps players learn the raids.
    Last edited by Vengeance777; 04-26-2012 at 03:20 PM.
    Server: Orien
    Guild: Over Raided
    Toons: Phasma - Swashbuckler ; Ceroni - Acrobat ; Selina Air Savant ; Cachin - Artificer

  15. #75
    Community Member gravestones's Avatar
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    Upon further review, it has become evident that the use of the letters "O" and "R" by the "PanthrosPack" channel is in direct violation of the Over Raided Group's intellectual property rights and exclusivity regarding the placement of the aforementioned letters "O" and "R" in any word or approximation thereof (in recognition of poor grammar) pertaining to a guild, group, association, affiliation, abbreviation, prefix, suffice, or internet alpha-numeric characterization emote (i.e. :-O where the use of the O is prohibited), without prior written consent and the payment, in full, of the OR standardized name-metaphor tax.

    It is requested that the PanthrosPack channel immediately stop using the letters "O" and "R" in the word PanthrosPack and find alternate letters (i.e. PanthwusPack for example). In lieu of the above, the PanthwusPack channel can deliver a contigent of 100 halfling barbarian vixens to the OR ship, by 8:00 am Pacific Standard time, April 26th, 2012.

    Also, Keybreaker will be hosting an open-learning Abbott raid workshop during the evening of Friday, April 28th - feel free to reserve your spot with him by direct request.

  16. #76
    Community Member ChadB123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravestones View Post
    Upon further review, it has become evident that the use of the letters "O" and "R" by the "PanthrosPack" channel is in direct violation of the Over Raided Group's intellectual property rights and exclusivity regarding the placement of the aforementioned letters "O" and "R" in any word or approximation thereof (in recognition of poor grammar) pertaining to a guild, group, association, affiliation, abbreviation, prefix, suffice, or internet alpha-numeric characterization emote (i.e. :-O where the use of the O is prohibited), without prior written consent and the payment, in full, of the OR standardized name-metaphor tax.

    It is requested that the PanthrosPack channel immediately stop using the letters "O" and "R" in the word PanthrosPack and find alternate letters (i.e. PanthwusPack for example). In lieu of the above, the PanthwusPack channel can deliver a contigent of 100 halfling barbarian vixens to the OR ship, by 8:00 am Pacific Standard time, April 26th, 2012.

    Also, Keybreaker will be hosting an open-learning Abbott raid workshop during the evening of Friday, April 28th - feel free to reserve your spot with him by direct request.
    After your first post, we'll make a killing off of it. Your name continues to be mentions I hear.
    Epicsoul(7th life) 20 druid - Deathdemize(6th life) 20wizard - Haiteraid(4th life) TR'ing - Epicbanjo(2nd life) 14bard4ftr2rogue.

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  17. #77
    Community Member dirtphillips's Avatar
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    Naming rights and Guild branding? I suppose Update 14 will add the ability to resolve copyright infringements against said branding elements. Maybe we could get a reality court show out of the deal (Toon court).
    Crakspiders - Craakspdr - Crakdspidr - Thatdoood - Otherdoood - Otherrguy

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravestones View Post
    Upon further review, it has become evident that the use of the letters "O" and "R" by the "PanthrosPack" channel is in direct violation of the Over Raided Group's intellectual property rights and exclusivity regarding the placement of the aforementioned letters "O" and "R" in any word or approximation thereof (in recognition of poor grammar) pertaining to a guild, group, association, affiliation, abbreviation, prefix, suffice, or internet alpha-numeric characterization emote (i.e. :-O where the use of the O is prohibited), without prior written consent and the payment, in full, of the OR standardized name-metaphor tax.

    It is requested that the PanthrosPack channel immediately stop using the letters "O" and "R" in the word PanthrosPack and find alternate letters (i.e. PanthwusPack for example). In lieu of the above, the PanthwusPack channel can deliver a contigent of 100 halfling barbarian vixens to the OR ship, by 8:00 am Pacific Standard time, April 26th, 2012.

    Also, Keybreaker will be hosting an open-learning Abbott raid workshop during the evening of Friday, April 28th - feel free to reserve your spot with him by direct request.
    I don't know if I can hate you anymore. That was one of the best things I've read in a long time.

  19. #79
    Community Member Keybreaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gravestones View Post
    Also, Keybreaker will be hosting an open-learning Abbott raid workshop during the evening of Friday, April 28th - feel free to reserve your spot with him by direct request.
    You sir, have been reported.

    Actually, I think you spelt Sparkle's name wrong. And it's not one night... it's ALL day. Anyone remember Sparkle's "training" Abbots? I think one day she led nearly 100 wipes of Abbot in an 12 hour stretch.
    Keybreaker, Leader of Over Raided (Orien)

  20. #80
    The Hatchery
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    So... I have to bribe with more than pie? I can give out 100 cure serious wounds potions to my tanks...

    To Key - I have ONE halfling vixen. If Glane permits, with Kat, we'll have two halfling vixens. Will you need all 100 at the same time? Or can we pay in small increments and with pie?

    ALSO! I found this in an old screenie folder. Just one of those *** is that party made up of?! moments.





    One of the most fun MA runs I've ever been in!

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