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Thread: STR woes

  1. #1
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default STR woes

    Alright, so on my journey to completion, I decided to roll up a barbarian. This puts me at:

    Cleric
    Sorc
    Bard
    Barb

    And I love it, I mean a LOT. If you look at my list though, I am not as well versed in melee builds as most of you are. Now, I hear on these very forums all the time that unless you have a standing/ unbuffed 40 STR you are gimp. I am trying to achieve this, I have heard from a few players that 60+ STR is not tough to hit on a barbarian, and I have NEVER hit that, or if I did it was for a few seconds burst only, and I don't count that as my STR. I want to know what I am doing wrong that I am not even close to a 40 standing strength. I am currently level 16, and my standing Strength, without rage/madstone/frenzy is at 32. This is a "laughable" amount of strength for a barb, and I want to fix it, but am not sure how. Below is a (hopefully inclusive) breakdown of my stats, and a few suggestions I have gotten and how they are not helpful at all. Let me know where I went wrong. Thanks.

    16 Dwarf Barbarian

    20 - Max STR
    6 - +6 item
    2 - Ship buffs
    2 - feats (? Can't remember)
    2 - STR tome (I have NEVER seen a +3/ +4 tome, and am NOT buying one from the DDO store for 4 more levels...)
    ----------
    32 Strength

    Below are some suggestions:

    "Just get a +4 tome, they drop all the time" - No they don't. Shut up.
    "Get the item from Litany, it drops all the time" - See above answer
    "Get a +1 and a +2 exceptional item" Now this is intriguing, and I am thinking about it, but is this how first life barbs get their STR so high? I have a tough time believing that.
    "Terror is awesome, you should use it" - I am not level 18 yet. This one has nothing to do with this thread, just super annoying because this is what everyone says to me when I link what I am using as a weapon, which is usually either the vampiric blade of fury or the vampiric bloody cleaver, Fury of the Flame or a +3 Holy of PG Greatsword. None of those are terrible items, IMHO, and unlike Terror, which I also have, I can USE THEM at my level.

    Enough with my whining, I really want to know how so many of you forumites start out with 40 walking Strength. I DO NOT count rage/ guild rage/ Madstone rage/ Frenzy, I want to know how it's apparently a well known benchmark and why I am having so much trouble hitting it. I will admit I have had to spend quite the pretty penny getting ready for a barb as I don't know what my next life is going to be until I actually TR, but this can't be that hard if everyone is able to do it.

    If you want to look at my gear or whatever and insult me on that, Llewndyn on Ghallanda is who I am talking about. Thanks and I appreciate all responses, even criticism as that's the only way to learn.
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
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  2. #2
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    18 STR
    5 levels
    2 tome
    2 ship
    6 item
    2 barb capstone

    That's 35

    Temporary that any barb 20 can have
    +2 rage spell
    +4 normal barb rage 4
    +4 power rage 4
    +4 level 20 Mighty Rage is 4 more

    That's a 49

    Grind for a +7 item, +3 exceptional STR, +4 tome could net you 6 more

    Double madstone is 4 more.

    59?

    Abishai Set (profane), Litany, House D pots, Yugo Pots ...
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  3. #3
    Community Member Fenwulf's Avatar
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    Default

    18 starting str
    4 level ups
    2 tome
    6 Item
    2 ship
    _______
    32


    Don't buy into the hype on the forums all the time your str is fine for your level.
    A lot of those higher str you might be reading about are most likely Half orcs, which could have 4 more base str than you now. (20 starting and 2 racial)

  4. #4
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Yeah you're totally fine.

    You could rage to a higher number once you cap. Level 20 barbarian is (essentially) +6 STR right there (from increased rage ability and capstone). Power Rage enhancements don't start at +4 either, you probably haven't spent the AP on them yet.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  5. #5
    Community Member Tsuarok's Avatar
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    Default

    Just to chime in: yeah, you're good for level 16
    I'm a non-conformist, just like all my friends

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    I'd hazard to guess that "standing strength" means while raged, since the idea is to be raged 100% of the time.

    A dwarf at level 16:

    18 base
    4 lvls
    6 item
    2 tome
    2 ship
    ----------------
    32 STR

    2 rage spell (pots if need be!)
    4 barb rage
    -----------------
    38 STR

    4 power rage
    2 frenzy
    -----------------
    44 STR
    Played on Sarlona:
    Incrediberry
    Saurfang

  7. #7
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    As everyone has said, you're good to go. Half-orc is the ideal race for a barbarian due to their massive strength bonuses and damage bonuses, but for a dwarf at level 16, you're good. There are no exceptional strength items at that level anyways as far as I'm aware.

  8. #8
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default Hmmm...

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    18 STR
    5 levels I think I put one or two into Constitution, but I know I put 2 into STR. Im level 16, as I said though, I meant how do you get to 40 STR NOW, not at cap
    2 tome
    2 ship
    6 item
    2 barb capstone See above, the reason I kept stating I was not at cap yet was to keep this kind of stuff out of the conversation, if the only way to hit 40 standing (meaning NOT TEMPORARILY, as I stated many times in my original post) is to hit 20, then I still have a chance of achieving that; but a lot of barbs and forumites are claiming to have this magical number as low as level 10. If this is not possible and I am at an acceptable level, I am fine with that

    That's 35

    Temporary that any barb 20 can have
    +2 rage spell
    +4 normal barb rage 4
    +4 power rage 4
    +4 level 20 Mighty Rage is 4 more

    That's a 49

    Grind for a +7 item, +3 exceptional STR, +4 tome could net you 6 more

    Double madstone is 4 more.

    59?

    Abishai Set (profane), Litany, House D pots, Yugo Pots ...
    Again, I am being given the impression my Strength is super low STANDING, not completely raged out. Double Madstone can only be done once per rest, so I wouldn't count that even in the final total as I cannot call on that any time I want. Grinding for a +7 item, if that is what is needed to make a respectable barbarian, is just another reason to completely get rid of the class, if that's what I need. I respect you, voodoo, but it seems like you didn't read of my original post. Here is what happens:

    I get into a group with other melees in it, and as people are wont to do they myddo me. They see my strength sitting at 32, and scoff (sometimes verbally, sometimes text..um.. text...ally) and relate much the same claim, that they had hit 32 strength at level 10 or so. Much laughing and insulting is had by the melees. I usually don't care, and can hold my own, but I would like to know what I am doing wrong, as EVERYONE can get better, and only a fool ignores genuine critiques. If it had been one or 2 barbarians, I would dismiss it and them with a witty statement about their personal hygiene and move on; however, this is a common thread, that I am gimping myself, and though I feel I do well enough I would always like to do MOAR damage. So here is what I want to know:

    1. What is the benchmark FOR MY LEVEL of barbarian in terms of stats? Is 32 strength too low?

    2. If the answer to #1 is yes, and the norm is a much higher number, what am I missing that the majority of barbarians have in order to hit that number? I will unequivocally and resoundingly call complete and utter BS to the idea that the majority of barbarians/ fighters/ melees have pulled +4 tomes and +7 strength items. Not possible, and I personally think it's a ridiculous assumption that something as rare as that is a needed component to hit this benchmark. Not every caster has a torc/bauble/conc opp item, and most that don't do just fine.

    3. If I am at a good clip and am right around in line with where most melees should be AT MY LEVEL, tell me and I will shut up. This is more in line with what I want.

    4. TEMPORARY BOOSTS ARE NOT WHAT I AM ASKING FOR. As I said, I can easily hit more than 50 STR with all my rage stuff going. That's not the problem. The problem for me, and maybe I am making too much of it, is that I am lacking something EVERY melee except me apparently has. MyDDOing returns some wonky results, so I usually don't rely on that for information. I just want to know what easily attainable piece of equipment I am missing that I am supposed to have. I have the ingredients to make some GS items, but that to me goes along with the +7 or +3 exceptional or +4 tomes in that that kind of stuff are for the elite few; if this is the only way I can hit this benchmark number (I only say 40 because that's the number I hear the most) then I won't worry about it.

    Voodoo, thanks for responding, I really am not trying to flame you or anything, just frustrated that I had what I thought was, if not a great build, a decent one, and am trying to figure out if I could be doing better. I just want to LEARN, darnit!
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
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  9. #9
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default Ah....

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Yeah you're totally fine.

    You could rage to a higher number once you cap. Level 20 barbarian is (essentially) +6 STR right there (from increased rage ability and capstone). Power Rage enhancements don't start at +4 either, you probably haven't spent the AP on them yet.
    This is what I wanted. Half orc is something I hadn't thought of. They are friggin hideous, too, so there's that. And I think I have been taking all the extend and extra rages, and outside of those ONLY what was needed to get the PREs...

    Sorry for the whiny response, was typing it while you were all responding... I truly appreciate this.
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
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  10. #10
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    Voodoo, thanks for responding, I really am not trying to flame you or anything, just frustrated that I had what I thought was, if not a great build, a decent one, and am trying to figure out if I could be doing better. I just want to LEARN, darnit!
    You're not, I'm easy and not likely to get upset ;-)

    ... but MrFister has it right ...

    When they say "standing" they do not mean the same thing you think they mean. How big was that fish again? It's going to be weighted to make them feel more ... better ... larger ... whatever.

    You're completely on track.

    To you, "standing" is max STR, toss levels into it. When folks talk about max-sustain and toss out a 60, they are talking at cap and perma-raged ... though it'll be positioned as completely and totally trivial to maintain ... "but I'm drinking rage pots and raging ALL THE TIME"
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  11. #11
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    Again, I am being given the impression my Strength is super low STANDING, not completely raged out.
    Who cares what your strength is STANDING? Barbarians are raging most of the time. That's the STR number that matters.

    Just tell anyone who DDOs you that "Hello, I'm a barbarian... My STR goes up quite a bit when I rage"
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  12. #12
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default How long you gonna spend at cap?

    If you are on an intended completionist path then probably not long.

    Some of the comments you may have encountered before your post could have come from people who ONLY consider "Endgame" Max Barb Str/DPS

    If you plan on TRing again right at 20 then you are on the right track.

    Some good advice above describing possible reasons for the differences you are seeing.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    I get into a group with other melees in it, and as people are wont to do they myddo me. They see my strength sitting at 32, and scoff (sometimes verbally, sometimes text..um.. text...ally) and relate much the same claim, that they had hit 32 strength at level 10 or so. Much laughing and insulting is had by the melees.
    Rage right before you log out so that your strength shows up higher on MyDDO.

  14. #14
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default at cap...

    I TRed the hard way as a cleric, because I liked cleric. I bought hearts for the sorc and Bard, because as a sorc I was lazy and I hated playing a bard (sad thing is I am being told if I had run epics as a bard I would love the class again)... I am going to take a wait and see approach on barb, but man there is nothing gooderer than smashing stuff in the face and doing jumping trips which looks like I am kicking mobs in the junk, which I am (I dare you to find a better trip than that), so I am kind of hoping to be useful in epics if possible... I capped a rogue, got into an epic wiz king, and was completely worthless, and don't want that happening with a barb. Clerics in epics have the easiest jobs of all, I just want to still be a useful addition to a party at end game (as a melee.... /punchline)

    Thanks for all the great advice, it's really helped a lot. I haven't been using rage all that often until very recently, but now that I know that is/does count as a permanent stat for most melees, I will use it more often.
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
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  15. #15
    Community Member smithj_2020's Avatar
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    Yea it was already stated but standing rage is what they say when the barb is raged out and frenzied and all good stuff.

    Here's my Horc:
    20 base
    5 levels
    7 item
    3 tome
    2 orc enhance
    2 barb capstone
    3 exceptional
    2 ship
    2 yug pot
    46 standing w/ ship and yug pot
    4 rage
    4 power rage
    3 orc power rage
    4 mighty rage
    2 frenzy
    4 death frenzy
    2 rage
    4 Madstone
    6 titans grip (1 min only tho)

    79 but limited ( 1 min titans, 1:30 Madstone, usually always at least 1 Madstone is on tho)
    71 majority of the time
    I feel at home in the darkness, when its just me and my blades...when the hunter takes over!

  16. #16
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    My welfare-geared 18/2 barb has 38 standing.

    20 base
    5 level ups
    2 enhancements
    2 ship buff
    2 tome
    1 exceptional
    6 item

    It will get better if I farm the chrono set and slot +2 on a ToD ring, but meh. I don't want to grind. It works well enough for now
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

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  17. #17
    Community Member TheDjinnFor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    I DO NOT count rage/ guild rage/ Madstone rage/ Frenzy
    That's your problem. The one time I did not have all of the above on was shortly after the abbot was buffed and I died like four times, and since the ToD frenzied berserker set bonus that gives you +1 rage was bugged, I lost 8 rages (4 from the bug, and another 4 from re-raging each time). Of course, each time I died my hp went lower and lower and lower and made it that much easier to kill me the next time.

    What your Str could be at level 16:

    18 base
    +4 levels
    +6 rage
    +4 power rage
    +2 rage spell
    +6 item
    +2 str tome
    +2 ship buffs
    +2 frenzy
    =46

    What my Str is at lvl 20:

    18 base
    +5 levels
    +8 rage
    +4 power rage
    +2 capstone
    +2 frenzied berserker set bonus
    +2 rage spell
    +7 item (epic brawling gloves, from crystal cove)
    +3 str tome
    +2 frenzy
    +4 death frenzy
    +3 exceptional
    +2 madstone
    =62

    The above numbers are for all intents and purposes permabuffed, except for when I'm playing content so weak I don't bother buffing that much, or the rare cases when I've died repeatedly and have run out of rages (which, like I said, happened to me once so far total). You can also toss in +2 from ship buffs but it's not reasonable to expect you'll never die, unless you're running simple stuff at cap like shroud, vod, tod, and reavers.

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