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  1. #41
    Community Member butcheredspirit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juduss View Post
    I'm considering an 18/2 Cleric/Pally (weapon proficiencies & Cha+ to saves) and was wondering if the pally levels would add or hinder in any way for turning purposes?

    From testing I did awhile back, cleric and paladin turn levels do appear to stack.
    However this would be irrelevant either way, if you only splash 2 levels.

    Paladins only begin to gain turn levels at level 4.

    You would have 2 turning levels less than a pure build.

  2. #42
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butcheredspirit View Post
    From testing I did awhile back, cleric and paladin turn levels do appear to stack.
    However this would be irrelevant either way, if you only splash 2 levels.

    Paladins only begin to gain turn levels at level 4.

    You would have 2 turning levels less than a pure build.
    Thank you for the clarification.

    I've added this question to the guide and also updated it reflect EN/EH/EE content.

  3. #43
    Community Member rabrams99's Avatar
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    I dont think I understand how the CHA bonus affects turn undead.

    Am I correct in saying the following statements?

    1. The turn check, which is what determines if a mob dies, is NOT affected by how high my charisma is?

    2. I did see that the turn check (lets say is max ~41) will then get a roll so the turn check will be 41 plus the 1d20 for the HD to see if it kills the undead?

    3. The only thing I think I saw was the 1d20 for the turn check can get a max +4 from the roll for a +22 CHA modifier? So if you hit the +22 (!!!54???CHA) then effectively you would have a ~45 HD starting turn check (41+4)?

    great thread, i apprecaite your insights
    Thando, Aarag, Keallen, Kuthroat, Sureshott, Skullcrusher

  4. #44
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabrams99 View Post
    I dont think I understand how the CHA bonus affects turn undead.

    Am I correct in saying the following statements?

    1. The turn check, which is what determines if a mob dies, is NOT affected by how high my charisma is?
    Correct, for the most part (see below)

    2. I did see that the turn check (lets say is max ~41) will then get a roll so the turn check will be 41 plus the 1d20 for the HD to see if it kills the undead?
    It would be your turn level (41) + Bonus from D20 Roll

    The bonus can be anywhere from -4 to +4. Table is as follows:
    Code:
    D20 Roll +      Bonus
    CHA modifier
    up to 0 	 - 4
    1-3 	         - 3
    4-6 	         - 2
    7-9 	         - 1
    10-12 	         + 0
    13-15 	         + 1
    16-18 	         + 2
    19-21 	         + 3
    22+ 	         + 4
    So you can see, CHA modifier affects the variance in your D20 turning check roll. The higher your charisma, the more frequent you get a high bonus. For example, if you had a CHA bonus of +9, you will always get a bonus of +0 to +4 because the lowest you can't roll lower than 10 (roll of 1 + 9).


    3. The only thing I think I saw was the 1d20 for the turn check can get a max +4 from the roll for a +22 CHA modifier? So if you hit the +22 (!!!54???CHA) then effectively you would have a ~45 HD starting turn check (41+4)?

    If you have +21 CHA then you will always get +4 bonus from your D20 roll since roll of 1 (+21) = 22.

    If you had 41 base turn levels and can somehow reach +21 CHA bonus, you would no-fail turn any undead 45HD or lower.

    great thread, i apprecaite your insights
    Last edited by guardianx2009; 03-04-2013 at 12:42 PM.

  5. #45
    Community Member rabrams99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guardianx2009 View Post
    Responses in yellow
    So you do not get the roll added to your turn undead check? If i have a base 41 HD and roll a 20 from the 1d20, I only get the +4 to make it 45HD? I do not get 41 plus the 20 plus the 4 to get a 65HD?
    Wow that sucks!

    Are there any plans to change or alter this so there can be even a chance to be able to turn undead in EE content?
    Last edited by rabrams99; 03-04-2013 at 06:13 PM.
    Thando, Aarag, Keallen, Kuthroat, Sureshott, Skullcrusher

  6. #46
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabrams99 View Post
    So you do not get the roll added to your turn undead check? If i have a base 41 HD and roll a 20 from the 1d20, I only get the +4 to make it 45HD? I do not get 41 plus the 20 plus the 4 to get a 65HD?
    Wow that sucks!

    Are there any plans to change or alter this so there can be even a chance to be able to turn undead in EE content?
    There's a chance that this can change with the enhancement pass. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by butcheredspirit View Post
    From testing I did awhile back, cleric and paladin turn levels do appear to stack.
    However this would be irrelevant either way, if you only splash 2 levels.
    Don't know if it's relevant anymore after U19, but I was looking at going the opposite way with one of my alts - splashing Cleric into my Pally. Does a Cleric splash add to the total number of Turns a Pally has per rest? I haven't played him since all the enhancements changed, so I'm not sure if it matters how many Turns he has now, but it used to power things like Circle of Protection from Evil. A quick glance at ddowiki doesn't seem to show any abilities that use Turns, but I'm wondering if I'd get another 3 from Cleric.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old_Skool View Post
    Don't know if it's relevant anymore after U19, but I was looking at going the opposite way with one of my alts - splashing Cleric into my Pally. Does a Cleric splash add to the total number of Turns a Pally has per rest? I haven't played him since all the enhancements changed, so I'm not sure if it matters how many Turns he has now, but it used to power things like Circle of Protection from Evil. A quick glance at ddowiki doesn't seem to show any abilities that use Turns, but I'm wondering if I'd get another 3 from Cleric.
    I run a multi class figther/ cleric, and find i have no use for turn undead... any better use for them?

  9. #49
    Community Member Leeqin's Avatar
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    Question

    hi i have few questions would like to know.

    First one is that i create a character to test myself if i understand these turning formula. By using turn undead as a lv15 sun elf (13 cleric 2 paladin) with 30 cha(+10 mod) I got the result :

    (Combat): You roll to see how effective your turn undead: cleric is. You roll a 16 : you hit foes up to 39 hit dice.
    (Combat): You roll for turning damage. You roll a 3 : 72 total hit dice of enemies can be turned..

    i was trying to figure out what these numbers come from

    LEVEL 13 CLERIC: +13

    EFFECTIVE LEVEL BONUS:
    Items: (Eternal Faith) +2
    Spells: (Seek Eternal Rest) +4
    Action Points: (Improved Turning: cleric) +3
    (Improved Turning: paladin) +3
    (bane of the reseless) +6
    Feats: (Improved Turning) +1

    MAXHD BONUS
    item: (Eternal Faith) +2


    Roll 16 (+10 cha mod) >22 +4

    so this should be
    13+2+4+3+3+6+1+2+4= 38?!

    why it is 38?! can some one please tell me where am i wrong?




    Second, i would like to know how trun undead works at the new U21 raid: Temple of the Deathwyrm especially the mobs at end boss fight .

    so i try to reach the maximum turn level:

    SUN ELF LEVEL 18 CLERIC 2 Paladin: +18
    Items: (Eternal Faith) +4
    Spells: (Seek Eternal Rest) +4
    Action Points: (Improved Turning: cleric) +3
    (Improved Turning: paladin) +3
    (Bane of the reseless) +6
    Feats: (3 Past Life: Cleric) +6
    (Improved Turning) +1
    Exceptional: (Radiant Servant Set) +3
    ================================================== ==
    +48
    +4 Bonus on D20 Roll +4
    ================================================== ==
    +52


    WOW, do we really can trun undead that blow CR 52? i know that Kuldjargh got about 33 CR, and Aurgloroasa is CR40 at EN..
    I am a Paladin!!

  10. #50
    Community Member guardianx2009's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeqin View Post
    hi i have few questions would like to know.

    so this should be
    13+2+4+3+3+6+1+2+4= 38?!

    why it is 38?! can some one please tell me where am i wrong?
    It might be that you get +1 from just being sun elf, or there's some other enhancement from sun elf that's giving you the +1. It seems that morninglords get one more turn level than normal, in addition to bane of the restless.

    If what you're showing is correct, it is interesting that improved turning: paladin stacks. This means an 18/2 cleric is 1 level better at turning than a 20 clr. And yes, the (theoretical) current max turn level is in the low 50's.

  11. #51
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    Sorry for the thread necro everyone, but I have an alt that I want to use as an undead hunter. And this thread has been an invaluable resource to understand the mechanics involved. Thanks once again to the original poster for all his research and information!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leeqin View Post
    hi i have few questions would like to know.

    First one is that i create a character to test myself if i understand these turning formula. By using turn undead as a lv15 sun elf (13 cleric 2 paladin) with 30 cha(+10 mod) I got the result :

    (Combat): You roll to see how effective your turn undead: cleric is. You roll a 16 : you hit foes up to 39 hit dice.
    (Combat): You roll for turning damage. You roll a 3 : 72 total hit dice of enemies can be turned..

    i was trying to figure out what these numbers come from

    LEVEL 13 CLERIC: +13

    EFFECTIVE LEVEL BONUS:
    Items: (Eternal Faith) +2
    Spells: (Seek Eternal Rest) +4
    Action Points: (Improved Turning: cleric) +3
    (Improved Turning: paladin) +3
    (bane of the reseless) +6
    Feats: (Improved Turning) +1

    MAXHD BONUS
    item: (Eternal Faith) +2


    Roll 16 (+10 cha mod) >22 +4

    so this should be
    13+2+4+3+3+6+1+2+4= 38?!

    why it is 38?! can some one please tell me where am i wrong?
    So I was curious about Leeqin's mysterious +1 Turn Level, because my first life level 28 Human Cleric was also getting +1 Turn Level (and +3 Total HD) from the equations. So it doesn't appear to be Morning Lord related. So I did some testing this morning, and think I've found the answer.

    Testing was done with a first life, level 28 Human Cleric (using Shadow Dancer destiny so that it shouldn't affect turning in any way).
    Removed all gear, and removed all enhancements. Equations worked fine at this point.
    Started adding the bare minimum enhancements for turning back in one at a time, checking the equations each time.
    With Healing Domain (1/1), Extra Turning (3/3), Scroll Mastery (1/3), and Improved Turning (3/3)... the equations checked out each and every time.
    But when I added in the Mighty Turning (1/1) enhancement, that is when the combat log showed +1 Turn Level and +3 Turn Damage vs the equations.

    So, I'm thinking the answer to Leeqin's question is that there is a hidden bonus in the Cleric's Mighty Turning enhancement.

    Anyway, hopefully this information is useful to future undead slayers out there.

    Devlinus

  12. #52
    Community Member Powerhungry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devlinus View Post
    Sorry for the thread necro everyone, but I have an alt that I want to use as an undead hunter. And this thread has been an invaluable resource to understand the mechanics involved. Thanks once again to the original poster for all his research and information!



    So I was curious about Leeqin's mysterious +1 Turn Level, because my first life level 28 Human Cleric was also getting +1 Turn Level (and +3 Total HD) from the equations. So it doesn't appear to be Morning Lord related. So I did some testing this morning, and think I've found the answer.

    Testing was done with a first life, level 28 Human Cleric (using Shadow Dancer destiny so that it shouldn't affect turning in any way).
    Removed all gear, and removed all enhancements. Equations worked fine at this point.
    Started adding the bare minimum enhancements for turning back in one at a time, checking the equations each time.
    With Healing Domain (1/1), Extra Turning (3/3), Scroll Mastery (1/3), and Improved Turning (3/3)... the equations checked out each and every time.
    But when I added in the Mighty Turning (1/1) enhancement, that is when the combat log showed +1 Turn Level and +3 Turn Damage vs the equations.

    So, I'm thinking the answer to Leeqin's question is that there is a hidden bonus in the Cleric's Mighty Turning enhancement.

    Anyway, hopefully this information is useful to future undead slayers out there.

    Devlinus
    the +38 is rather moot against the CR70+ mobs we have now...
    (Combat): You are hit by your knockdown.

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