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  1. #41
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    I suspect people are more looking for a two-handed piercing weapon than they are obsessing about druids must have spears.
    My point exactly, this has nothing to do with druids and they should decouple the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esserbe View Post
    I'm fairly sure spears were druid weapons in AD&D, but scimitar was added in 3.0.
    It was. But it wasn't a signature weapon of any kind. It was just one of a bunch of weapons they got and except in reach situations, often inferior.

  2. #42
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    The long spear is decent in pnp because of reach (and simple weapon). Yes, the reach weapons have lower base damage, but they had reach. Not sure how to translate that into something as useful in DDO. Maybe give reach weapons attacks of opportunity.
    Yeap, they also had the best melee builds for reach weapons IMO - like charger builds which could multiply the damage by charging or setting the weapon to receive a charge. Landing a crit on a charge sometimes makes casters jealous when rolling the damage, heh.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  3. #43
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    I think they would be cool to use. I couldn't care less if they were statted identical to great axes.
    Ask yourself the gain outside from style factor which could be implemented by weapon appearance kits. Scythe is pure style over substance for a palemaster but there has to be some longterm substance. The weapon selection from Handaxe over Kamas to Greataxes and such has its origin in the basic weapon list of DnD but nobody is using them except maybe for low lvl. transgressional gear setup.

    But there were many advantages for round-based-combat which do not work in DDO. Every reach weapon had to give a bonus to trip and/or give reach without the disadvantage of close-combat use because there is no such thing as AoO.

    I so want to have a Whirlwind Attack trip-monkey with reach weapon, imagine crowd control options on a mundane level. Awesome and stylish. But I think it cannot be implemented to a staisfactory state. Another THF weapon. Meh. Yeah well, Y U NO GIVE SPIKED CHAIN?
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  4. #44
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by licho View Post
    Sorry for noob question, but what exacly spears brings? And how are yo sure it will be translated to ddo?
    SO far there is no difference between any 2h weapon exept some has SoS other not.
    Will the Spear anything more than the illusion of choice?

    Scythe on the other side at least brings moar power.
    2h weapon bypassing pierce dr.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    Ask yourself the gain outside from style factor which could be implemented by weapon appearance kits. Scythe is pure style over substance for a palemaster but there has to be some longterm substance. The weapon selection from Handaxe over Kamas to Greataxes and such has its origin in the basic weapon list of DnD but nobody is using them except maybe for low lvl. transgressional gear setup.

    But there were many advantages for round-based-combat which do not work in DDO. Every reach weapon had to give a bonus to trip and/or give reach without the disadvantage of close-combat use because there is no such thing as AoO.

    I so want to have a Whirlwind Attack trip-monkey with reach weapon, imagine crowd control options on a mundane level. Awesome and stylish. But I think it cannot be implemented to a staisfactory state. Another THF weapon. Meh. Yeah well, Y U NO GIVE SPIKED CHAIN?
    To be honest I use much of those weapons on some of my characters as they are leveling. My dwarf even uses some of the hand axes and battle axes if he can't find a dwarven axe with the ability he needs (ghost of disruption, smiting, etc.), at least until a drwarven axe can be found.

    But I don't see a problem with Scythe even statted x4, basically a two-handed slashing pick.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeruell View Post
    What, all of them?
    Yep, but I am pretty sure they could be all done with three animation sets (one for pierce, one for slash, and the blunt we already have in the quarterstaff animations) and a basic 'skin' for all the different types, maybe with a slightly different 'danger zone' and all doing 1d8 with maybe a different plus or minus 1-3 tacked on to the end (hehe, maybe 1d8+1d3).

    I don't think the PnP 'reach rules' need to be implemented, although it would be nice if the danger zones for each weapon was somewhat based on the length of the weapon (main hand only, don't need to put all those physics checks back in). So a Pike would be somewhat useful for some 'twitch-play' against spiders...

    I know there is already some differences between the danger zones on the weapons in ddo, I just don't know how granular they are.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  7. #47
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    But I don't see a problem with Scythe even statted x4, basically a two-handed slashing pick.
    I already said that these weapons are used till you get the apex of equipment. In case of some weapons however you have to be careful. I am very afraid of everything which has the Kopesh-factor.
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  8. #48
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    But I don't see a problem with Scythe even statted x4, basically a two-handed slashing pick.
    You can't put 1.5x STR mod into a regular pick.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    I already said that these weapons are used till you get the apex of equipment. In case of some weapons however you have to be careful. I am very afraid of everything which has the Kopesh-factor.
    Yeah, and if they did something silly like give it a 19-20 crit range then it might be a prob, but with an only crit on a 20 it is basically just a two-handed slashing pick as far as ddo goes, at least as far as I can figure.

    They should probably throw a pickaxe in there also.


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    You can't put 1.5x STR mod into a regular pick.
    Nope, but I don't see that as game-breaking really. Compared to a greataxe you would be sacrificing base damage (fairly substantially 1d12 vs 2d4, iirc) in exchange for more crit potential (x3 vs x4).


    Quote Originally Posted by MajMalphunktion View Post
    *Handwraps. Yes we know. Here is my known issue for handwraps. Hand wraps in assorted flavors are borked.

  11. #51
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    They should probably throw a pickaxe in there also.
    I'd be happy with the normal Spiked Chain, or according to Eberron, the Drow Scorpion Chain.

    Racial Drow Tempest + Kenasi + Scorpion Chain.... even Elven Courtblade is a good power creep option. Yeah but then anything else is just meh.

    Greensteel Scythe = Greensteel Falchion with lower threat range but higher crit. multiplier. All in all 17-20/x4 is a solid option for a THF weapon.
    Last edited by zwiebelring; 04-03-2012 at 03:28 PM.
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  12. #52
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    I already said that these weapons are used till you get the apex of equipment. In case of some weapons however you have to be careful. I am very afraid of everything which has the Kopesh-factor.
    x4 crit is actually already available in one-handed weapons. if it was really that ridiculous, you'd see a lot more people using them.

  13. #53
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    You don't see people using other kind of weapons as of now because everybody or most people go for the maximum dps and that limits the options. I am sure you know that picks were the state of the art when the RAW of DnD rules applied to helpless state. Right now base damage is king.

    The longterm bonuses of a two handed pirecing weapon should be different to just damage type: slashing. But I don't think you could give something like that without creating another kopesh.
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  14. #54
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    when the RAW of DnD rules applied to helpless state.
    Actually, that's not how the RAW of DnD 3.5e works for helpless state. The only way you got an automatic critical on a helpless target is by using cu de grace on them, and then they get a fort save or die based on the damage. Also this was a full round action that doesn't resolve until the beginning of your next turn.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  15. #55
    The Hatchery zwiebelring's Avatar
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    True that, that is what happens if you play less pnp and more DDO. Thank you.
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  16. #56
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zwiebelring View Post
    True that, that is what happens if you play less pnp and more DDO. Thank you.
    Its okay, my buddy had to repoint that out to me at our pnp game since I don't get to hit helpless things often.
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  17. #57
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    Nope, but I don't see that as game-breaking really. Compared to a greataxe you would be sacrificing base damage (fairly substantially 1d12 vs 2d4, iirc) in exchange for more crit potential (x3 vs x4).
    Actually its not that much: (20 attacks)

    Great Axe:
    6.5 x 17= 110.5
    19.5 x 2= 39
    0 x 1= 0 (natural one)
    Total= 149.5
    7.45/attack avg

    Scythe:
    5 x 17= 85
    20 x 2= 40
    0 x 1= 0
    Total= 125
    6.25/attack avg

    So only a 1.2 damage per attack difference, and high STR is going to favor the scythe.

    For example using a 50 str, we add:

    GA:
    30 x 17= 510
    90 x 2= 180
    690
    30.45/attack

    Scythe:
    30 x 17= 510
    120 x 2= 240
    750
    37.5/attack

    So now, GA: 37.9, Scythe: 43.75
    Khyber: Runforr 13/6/1 Rog/Ftr/Mnk, Bakup 3/3/1 Mnk/Pal/Rog (TR Pal), Faylah 14 Mnk (TR Mnk), Janthyra 12/7/1 Brb/Rog/Ftr, Ainbthech 20 Sor, Fliethas 18/2 Fvs/Mnk, Unfilled 12/6/2 Mnk/Rgr/Ftr, Arcanemark 10 Wiz "Don't eat us dragon! We're like you, but smaller. And fly worse." - Kobold Crewman on the Heart of Wind

  18. #58
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Autocrit is far weaker than the rule zero of original D&D anyhow, and in a video game with trash mobs that have 3k HP, the actual coup de grace rule would be super powerful. Picks had a nice niche role in this game until that was nerfed.

    2h pierce would still be cool though, especially on a mattock or something that shares the great ax animation.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  19. #59
    Community Member WangoFett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddo.rsmo.pt View Post
    An easier implementation of the "set against charge", although different (don't know if charge can be detected at the moment), is to make blocking with a spear do some small damage to the attacker, like a guard.
    This is a good idea.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    I overlooked nothing.

    There was no complete druid handbook for advanced dungeons and dragons.

    The complete druid handbook was second edition.

    The list I provided was for Advanced Dungeons and Dragons - which is what we call first edition nowdays. There were no kits or class handbooks for that game.
    Khopesh was also considered a subset of the Scimitar requiring a 2nd roll (10%?) after the random loot was determined. I think this was Unearthed Arcana.

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