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Thread: Elite. Know it.

  1. #21
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    Except with the "bravery bonus" mechanics in the game, players are basically told first time on casual and normal is for cowards and underachievers, while hard and elite are for the brave and heroic. Really nothing more than the buttons the mechanics and term chosen pushes in a person's ego leading to the conclusion that learning quests is for noobs.
    Nonsense.
    A first life toon doesnt need BB to cap easily. Normal and Casual are specifically to let new players learn, or soloists to run the quest when they cant handle it on a higher dif. BB is for advanced players looking for challenge and faster leveling -- be that vets or TRs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with running a quest you dont know on a lower dif, and any perception as such is purely on the part of the observer. Nothing about BB implies anything of the sort. It implies that you want to step up your game and/or earn more Xp in a shorter amount of time -- which is nothing like the condescending view you depicted.

    If it were in any way intended to be that way, then it wouldnt be so easy to pick up your streak again after breaking it; it would take many more elite/hard runs to max the bonus, so as to discourage players from dropping the streak and picking it up again later.

    Am I (and for that matter the majority of the server) a coward or an underachiever because I solo Prey on casual, knowing I will get the same reward, whether its casual or elite? Of course not. Might someone feel a sense of accomplishment by soloing it on elite just to retain their BB while farming? Sure, I guess -- but that still does not make the inverse true.

  2. #22
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NaturalHazard View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by varusso View Post
    If you dont know the quest, you should not be running it on elite.
    Sorry but ive taken people who have never done elite into elite quests and had no problems at all, I didnt realise I was breaking some *universal* rule.

    But if the lfm says know it and you don't then don't join, if the lfm says know it and you don't like the lfm don't join, if you want put up your own, you might even fill and complete faster.
    Now quote the whole thing instead of cherry-picking to change the context of what I ACTUALLY said:
    Quote Originally Posted by varusso View Post
    Normal and casual are for learning the quest; hard and elite are for challenge and/or extra loot and/or bragging rights (depending on the quest). If you dont know the quest, you should not be running it on elite.

    If you dont like it, make your own LFM, accept anyone, and have at it. If you complete with 5 noobs, then its because you carried them or you were all well over-level.
    Highlighted the important bits you apparently just skipped over. If you want to carry them (or teach them the quest) thats fine -- good in fact, if you are teaching them. Not everyone feels like playing teacher, and that is also fine.

  3. #23
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Well I did lords of dust on epic first time,servants too.

  4. #24
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    The way I see it, if you can't lead a group through a quest on elite then perhaps you shouldn't be leading.

    I understand plenty of the "know it" LFMs are experienced players that just don't want to deal with assorted nuts that come with PUGs, but that's why this game has guilds and friend lists and hirelings.

  5. #25
    Community Member DarkAlchemist's Avatar
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    You know I see this on Thelanis a bunch and it normally has with it a BYOH.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by varusso View Post
    Nonsense.
    A first life toon doesnt need BB to cap easily. Normal and Casual are specifically to let new players learn, or soloists to run the quest when they cant handle it on a higher dif. BB is for advanced players looking for challenge and faster leveling -- be that vets or TRs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with running a quest you dont know on a lower dif, and any perception as such is purely on the part of the observer. Nothing about BB implies anything of the sort. It implies that you want to step up your game and/or earn more Xp in a shorter amount of time -- which is nothing like the condescending view you depicted.

    If it were in any way intended to be that way, then it wouldnt be so easy to pick up your streak again after breaking it; it would take many more elite/hard runs to max the bonus, so as to discourage players from dropping the streak and picking it up again later.

    Am I (and for that matter the majority of the server) a coward or an underachiever because I solo Prey on casual, knowing I will get the same reward, whether its casual or elite? Of course not. Might someone feel a sense of accomplishment by soloing it on elite just to retain their BB while farming? Sure, I guess -- but that still does not make the inverse true.
    What does what a person need have to do with the game mechanics telling them that to be "brave" one must run content on hard or even elite the first time every time?

    Frankly I think the devs messed up by even letting first lifers qualify for BB and in the choice of names (something like "Risk Bonus" would have been better), but that's just my opinion. Expecting a bunch of, mostly casual, video game players to make an efficiency analysis is a bit unreasonable. They'll most likely just go with the cues given by the game and go with the flow. In other words, decide to be brave and run everything on hard or elite as that's what the game tells them brave players are to do.

  7. #27
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    To me, as an experienced player, I would purposely avoid that leader because it screams that they may not be the nicest person in the world...If you dare to look the wrong way in the quest they get all upset. I hate running with people like that and even if I know the quest backwards and forwards I won't join their group. I put up elite LFMs all the time and I don't mind taking someone that doesn't know the quest that well (though it is nice if they can listen and follow along with the group).
    Aryk Stoutheart, Paladin - Sarlona
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  8. #28
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gremmlynn View Post
    What does what a person need have to do with the game mechanics telling them that to be "brave" one must run content on hard or even elite the first time every time?

    Frankly I think the devs messed up by even letting first lifers qualify for BB and in the choice of names (something like "Risk Bonus" would have been better), but that's just my opinion. Expecting a bunch of, mostly casual, video game players to make an efficiency analysis is a bit unreasonable. They'll most likely just go with the cues given by the game and go with the flow. In other words, decide to be brave and run everything on hard or elite as that's what the game tells them brave players are to do.
    Once again, that game mechanic is designed for vet/TR players. A new player probably has no idea what BB is or how it works (despite its tag on the quest window). No one is forcing or even pushing newbies to run for BB. In point of fact, LFMs such as this directly contradict that; the point of it *IS* to weed out the newbies.

    There is no game mechanic that REQUIRES any player (new or otherwise) to participate in BB. It is a 100% optional thing. Only the players who actually are seeking BB are likely to be the ones using it, other than by accident. And that has EVERYTHING to do with it.

    If you dont know the quest, you should not be doing it on elite. Its intended to be a challenge, not a walk in the park for a first-life, new player. Nothing and no one *forces* anyone to run elite at all, much less first time through a quest.

    And if your stance is that the name "bravery bonus" implies anything, then you are reading entirely too much into it.

  9. #29
    Community Member Moonsickle's Avatar
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    Default ???

    You're telling me a person with a Completionist decides to build a new character from scratch and on it's first life it shouldn't qualify for BB?

    that's maybe why they didn't stop first life characters from going for BB.


    Think you better get used to characters that aren't what you think they are...

    Vet Status II and BB... can be a very dangerous combo...

    no gear at level 7 and no knowledge of the quests...

    add gimped build

    if you think the game is too easy.
    You know I had been using the Superior Sarcasm font exclusively but it seems in a unannounced hotfix they slipped in the Sovereign Sarcasm font... keep up the good work guys!

  10. #30
    Community Member Purgatory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaljaw View Post
    Seriously?

    1. Who the heck is such a tool as to put this?
    2. If I click your LFM it is because I am willing to put up with your toolishness because I am either bored or just looking for some xp.
    3. Sending a tell to confirm that I "know it" is even more toolish.

    Q. So what have we learned from this?
    A. Friends don't let friends be tools.
    edit: not worh the infraction....


    I just have to relize the average person is not smarter then the average bear: yo bobo lets get a picnic basket.
    Last edited by Purgatory; 03-31-2012 at 08:57 PM.

  11. #31
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonsickle View Post
    You're telling me a person with a Completionist decides to build a new character from scratch and on it's first life it shouldn't qualify for BB?

    that's maybe why they didn't stop first life characters from going for BB.


    Think you better get used to characters that aren't what you think they are...

    Vet Status II and BB... can be a very dangerous combo...

    no gear at level 7 and no knowledge of the quests...

    add gimped build

    if you think the game is too easy.
    NM, just realized this was directed at a different post.

  12. #32
    Community Member ainmosni's Avatar
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    if i put 'elite, know it' in my lfm that means im not in the mood to teach/carry someone through a quest. not implying that anyone who hits an lfm that doesnt indicate you should know it is going to be a total newb, but putting 'elite, know it' in the lfm is a quick way to keep people who DONT know the quest or how to zerg it properly from hitting the lfm. i never require someone to send a tell saying they know the quest, i just assume people read lfms before clicking on them (which is not always the case).

    i dont see what the problem is, do you want everyone's lfm's to be totally open to anyone who is in level range who wishes to join?

    i love to pug, even get bad players and maybe teach them a thing or two, but sometimes all i want is a completion. sorry if that makes me a tool.
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    [7/18/2012 12:22:24 AM] D. H.: i mean, i'm not as experienced as, say, a vegas hooker, but i can confidently say that you're a lot more aggressive than like 90% of the guys i've been with.

  13. #33
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    It sounds to me like the LFM was successful in eliminating a drama prone player who would have made the quest longer and more frustrating. I would rather have a clear indication of what the party leader is expecting than an unpleasant surprise when the quest is under way.

  14. #34
    Community Member al73r's Avatar
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    tell you what... join one of my lfms on thelanis .. which I mostly grind on elite. Now join one of my quests that you do not know. If you can keep up great you have no worries on "know it" and you can move on.

    Now i'm going to say you will die and struggle in most cases trying to keep up. However in rare circumstances you will be able to keep up because you are simply a good player. I dont' know you but with a thread that you created tells me a lot about you already.

    Happy hunting,

    Alter

  15. #35
    Hero karpedieme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al73r View Post
    tell you what... join one of my lfms on thelanis .. which I mostly grind on elite. Now join one of my quests that you do not know. If you can keep up great you have no worries on "know it" and you can move on.

    Now i'm going to say you will die and struggle in most cases trying to keep up. However in rare circumstances you will be able to keep up because you are simply a good player. I dont' know you but with a thread that you created tells me a lot about you already.

    Happy hunting,

    Alter
    Nicely Put Alter.

    I might follow you on an Elite BB run but I sure as hell will not follow while you're running wire in the attic..... Its way too heroic a task for me.

    :-D

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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by al73r View Post
    tell you what... join one of my lfms on thelanis .. which I mostly grind on elite. Now join one of my quests that you do not know. If you can keep up great you have no worries on "know it" and you can move on.

    Now i'm going to say you will die and struggle in most cases trying to keep up. However in rare circumstances you will be able to keep up because you are simply a good player. I dont' know you but with a thread that you created tells me a lot about you already.

    Happy hunting,

    Alter
    1. I don't play on thelanis so you would not know me.
    2. I have a stable of 13 (soon to be 15) capped toons. 4 are multi-TR's.
    3. I would not have trouble keeping up with you, or anyone else, in any quest.
    4. The only quests that I don't know is Titan simply because I find it annoying and the loot not particularly worth it.
    5. The fact that you make assumptions on my playing skill based on a thread which is more indicitive of my tolerance for lack of social niceities says something about you as well.

  17. #37
    Hero Djeserit's Avatar
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    Default Sadly, it's needed...

    I put up an LFM just about every night on Thelanis. Always elite (my elite streak currently at 453).

    Now I could solo everything, I am looking for a group to speed things up, mix it up with different tactics, make things a little more fun.

    I try to get a mixed party, with a range of experience. Will take any class mix because you know, it's actually more interesting to try to do hard quests with six barbarians.

    However I find that it is less fun for everyone if there are more than two completely inexperienced players.

    MANY people who are completely unprepared for elite play hit the LFM if you don't post anything.

    Unless I take steps, I won't get the party mix I want. Often accept folks immediately followed by.

    "Share please"

    However, posting "know it" doesn't always seem to work either anymore.

    Sometimes I try "don't die".

    What I usually post nowdays is "min HP xxx"

    depending on level.

    Once I get four experienced players, I open it up to any.

    If we get two newbs, that's great. A chance for them to learn the quest, more challenge for us, and you never know we all might learn something.

    I think by posting the min HP I will accept up front, nobody's feelings are hurt and it's more fun for all.

  18. #38
    Community Member Vint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metaljaw View Post
    I realize the new BB streak thing has wacked things out a bit. I am willing to put up with the wanting to discriminate against people that need to be hand-held. I get that. I am even willing to overlook the the "Elite know it" on an LFM in most cases, though I form an opinion about what to expect from those types of LFMs. Sometimes that is what I am looking for. However, sending a tell basically asking 'are you REALLY sure you know it?' is what gets me. Your LFM already states what you want and only makes you slightly look bad. Following up with tells is just plain wrong.
    What iritates me is how many people that dont "know it" still hit the LFM. You can cry all day long that you hate elitist, but they are being up front.

    Your willing to look past discrimination? LMFAO!!! Are you serious? Are you saying in your "perfect world" people should could and would put up with incompetence? I dont know about you but I play this game to get away from real life dummies. I dont log on every night so I can "mentor", "train" or "make friends" with everyone I meet.

    I want to thank you for sending me to bed smiling tonight. You are going to look past my discrimination. This is good stuff. Iin about 28 mins it will be Sunday here. Can you get out your religious stick and tell me another reason why I am destined to Hell?

    I cant get over this, this is hilarious!!!!!!!!!
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  19. #39
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    The way I see it, if you can't lead a group through a quest on elite then perhaps you shouldn't be leading.
    If you put "know it" in the LFM, then the whole point is that you DONT want to "lead" it. You want players who know it well enough NOT to have to be told what to do every step of the way. All you are doing is putting up the LFM that everyone else is too lazy to put up.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancisP.Fancypants View Post
    I understand plenty of the "know it" LFMs are experienced players that just don't want to deal with assorted nuts that come with PUGs, but that's why this game has guilds and friend lists and hirelings.
    Its also why this game has an LFM panel. In general, the folks who put up (and join) these LFMS are looking for one or more of these things:
    (1) Faster completion than soloing.
    (2) Getting more optionals/bonuses/etc.
    (3) Someone to fill a role they cant, or help with part of the quest that they cant solo on that toon.
    (3a) A warm body to pull a lever, step on a button, etc. that they cant do themselves or with a hireling (The Necro 1 quest where you need 4 bodies for example) or where using a hireling is possible but a huge PITA (the necro 2 quest that requires groups to let each other through the doors for example).
    (4) Someone to talk to while zerging the quest for the billionth time.
    (5) Someone to window farm it with.
    (6) Extra pulls on a named piece of loot (Bauble in Weapon Shipment for example).
    (7*) An audience or someone to carry them through the quest -- This is mostly a myth. Despite forum claims to the contrary, I have YET to encounter either of these player types using this LFM as a bait and switch. And no, help on something you cant solo is not carrying you.

    There are many others, which I am too tired to think of at the moment. None of them remotely imply a rude, incompetent, elitist, or anti-social person. Or any of the other negative aspersions naysayers like to throw our way just because we dont feel like shepherding 5 other ppl through a quest right now.

  20. #40
    Community Member darthhento's Avatar
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    Ha ha ha! Another one?

    It's a simple filter for:
    *Know the quest and it's mechanics
    *Know group tactics
    *Be sufficiently geared/skilled for the quest
    *I'm not in the mood to explain to you what you need to be doing in the quest and where every damn trap is
    *I don't want dead weight in my group

    If it bothers you don't join.

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