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  1. #1
    Community Member DaSawks's Avatar
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    Default 3rd life TWF HORC Barbarian

    Thinking about TR'ing again and was looking into Barbarian. I have a level 20 WF Barbarian but he was simple compared to this build. Is HORC and TWF a waste? I did not take IC:Slash as I have dual MinII Khopesh's waiting for me. I also have eaten all the +2 tomes so that is not an issue anymore. Are there any glaring issues?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Chaotic Neutral Half-Orc Male
    (20 Barbarian) 
    Hit Points: 432
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 17
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             20                 27                   31
    Dexterity            15                 17                   17
    Constitution         16                 18                   21
    Intelligence          7                  9                    9
    Wisdom                8                 10                   10
    Charisma              7                  9                    9
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               2                  3                    3
    Bluff                -2                 -1                   -1
    Concentration         3                  5                    5
    Diplomacy            -2                 -1                   -1
    Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                 -1                   -1
    Heal                 -1                  0                    0
    Hide                  2                  3                    3
    Intimidate            2                 22                   22
    Jump                  9                 23                   23
    Listen               -1                 23                   23
    Move Silently         2                  3                    3
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -2                 -1                   -1
    Search               -2                 -1                   -1
    Spot                 -1                  0                    0
    Swim                  5                 10                   10
    Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device     n/a               n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 2 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 3 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    
    
    Level 4 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 5 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 6 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 7 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 8 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 10 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 11 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 12 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 14 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 15 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 17 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 18 (Barbarian)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 19 (Barbarian)
    
    
    Level 20 (Barbarian)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage IV
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Might
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution III
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II
    Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, although VIP players do get free Gold rolls on Daily Dice, so that might fit into your criteria. But when it comes to chest drops, chain rewards, general Daily Dice rolls (what number you get), etc., VIP does not confer additional "luck".

  2. #2
    Community Member smithj_2020's Avatar
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    It's not a complete waste, damage output is still going to be very high, maybe think of splashing 2 fighter for extra feats, IC: slashing=more crits= more dps. Also fighter haste boost is awesome while raging. I just believe THF with the Orc enhances and THW do more dps that end game THF does more DPS.

    My 2nd life barb is 2wf wielding kopeshes but I'll be Turing him back to fighter.He does very good dps right now tho.
    I feel at home in the darkness, when its just me and my blades...when the hunter takes over!

  3. #3
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Default

    MinII's are pretty low DPS in a lot of content now with the addition of Cannith Crafted weapons and Artificers. It's great to have them but I wouldn't skip Improved Critical: Slashing on account of them as you really shouldn't be using them in devil content.

    Horc TWF'ing Barbarian seems a waste, Helf generally has better TWF'ing and overall DPS with versatility: damage and rogue dilettante, not to mention making better tanks with improved recovery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Feather_of_Sun View Post
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  4. #4
    Community Member Irongutz2000's Avatar
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    Default ya

    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    MinII's are pretty low DPS in a lot of content now with the addition of Cannith Crafted weapons and Artificers. It's great to have them but I wouldn't skip Improved Critical: Slashing on account of them as you really shouldn't be using them in devil content.

    Horc TWF'ing Barbarian seems a waste, Helf generally has better TWF'ing and overall DPS with versatility: damage and rogue dilettante, not to mention making better tanks with improved recovery.
    What he said, horcs only really excell at THFING, other than that they r just ugly imo lol, go HELF, and maybe splash 2 fighter for feats and haste boost. U can run haste boost/versatilty damage at the same time

    Again u shouldn't only use min 2's, there r much better options out there
    Azrreal / 28 completionist and epic completionist / Artificer 20
    Azrealla / 28 12 fighter / 4 monk / 4 pali
    Hoehoe / 28 ranger
    Twinkiee / 28 18 sorc / 2 pali
    Dingdong / 28 pali
    Razeall / 28 18 monk / 2 fighter

  5. #5
    Community Member DaSawks's Avatar
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    WHAT!!?? MinII is not near the top in DPS? When did this happen? I can see were LitII can be better or perhaps some Epic stuff. Cannith Crafting better? Really? The best I can imagine Cannith Crafting having is +5 Holy (Insert Metal type here) of Greater Bane. If an Artificer is needed in party to out DPS MinII then count me out.

    I am not going to carry around multiple sets of very expensive Khopeshes when one set of MinII will do. Its called consolidation. Years ago I would have had Khopesh's with every Elemental type of Pure Good. Then I collected Greater Bane sets. Before I knew it I had 20 different sets of Khopeshs.

    IC:Slashing is a wasted feat with MinII's. If I had made LitII I would have taken IC:Slashing.

    I do appreciate the feed back. I will create a build with 2 levels of Fighter for the feats and haste boost. Thank you for the idea. I do not care about the Barb Capstone as I will TR again at 20.

    Helf over Horc? Hummm. Let me see. I will have to do some research on this. Perhaps I will dig up some of Shade's threads on Barbarians to see if he recommends Helf too. I agree that the TWF and Horc Enhancements do not mesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, although VIP players do get free Gold rolls on Daily Dice, so that might fit into your criteria. But when it comes to chest drops, chain rewards, general Daily Dice rolls (what number you get), etc., VIP does not confer additional "luck".

  6. #6
    Community Member Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irongutz2000 View Post
    What he said, horcs only really excell at THFING, other than that they r just ugly imo lol, go HELF, and maybe splash 2 fighter for feats and haste boost. U can run haste boost/versatilty damage at the same time

    Again u shouldn't only use min 2's, there r much better options out there
    Half-orcs also get racial bonuses that stack with the barbarian bonuses.
    Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien

    Fernian Summer Carnival

  7. #7
    Community Member lord_of_rage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSawks View Post
    WHAT!!?? MinII is not near the top in DPS? When did this happen? I can see were LitII can be better or perhaps some Epic stuff. Cannith Crafting better? Really? The best I can imagine Cannith Crafting having is +5 Holy (Insert Metal type here) of Greater Bane. If an Artificer is needed in party to out DPS MinII then count me out.

    I am not going to carry around multiple sets of very expensive Khopeshes when one set of MinII will do. Its called consolidation. Years ago I would have had Khopesh's with every Elemental type of Pure Good. Then I collected Greater Bane sets. Before I knew it I had 20 different sets of Khopeshs.

    IC:Slashing is a wasted feat with MinII's. If I had made LitII I would have taken IC:Slashing.

    I do appreciate the feed back. I will create a build with 2 levels of Fighter for the feats and haste boost. Thank you for the idea. I do not care about the Barb Capstone as I will TR again at 20.

    Helf over Horc? Hummm. Let me see. I will have to do some research on this. Perhaps I will dig up some of Shade's threads on Barbarians to see if he recommends Helf too. I agree that the TWF and Horc Enhancements do not mesh.
    Shade hates twf barbs period. He will not be a good source of information for twf barbs. Shade is thf and that is it.
    Toons are in a constant state of flux. Khyber server.

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    Maybe your forum name should be lord_of_halfling_rage then...

  8. #8
    Community Member Crann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSawks View Post
    WHAT!!?? MinII is not near the top in DPS? When did this happen? I can see were LitII can be better or perhaps some Epic stuff. Cannith Crafting better? Really? The best I can imagine Cannith Crafting having is +5 Holy (Insert Metal type here) of Greater Bane. If an Artificer is needed in party to out DPS MinII then count me out.
    How would you stack up a MinII against a +5 Silver Holy Burst GEOB versus appropriate content? And what does having an Arty have to do with that comparison?

    If you want ok damage v. almost everything, stick to your MinII. If you want great dps on easy to obtain weapons, then catch up on the Cannith Crafting/Challenge stuff.

  9. #9
    Community Member DaSawks's Avatar
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    Thought I would roll up a HORC fighter to see what it looks like compared to Barb.


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
    (20 Fighter) 
    Hit Points: 382
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
    Fortitude: 16
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 6
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
    Strength             20                 27                   32
    Dexterity            15                 17                   17
    Constitution         16                 18                   18
    Intelligence          8                 10                   10
    Wisdom                8                 10                   10
    Charisma              6                  8                    8
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
    Balance               2                  3                    3
    Bluff                -2                 -1                    2
    Concentration         3                  4                    7
    Diplomacy            -2                 -1                    2
    Disable Device       n/a                n/a                   n/a
    Haggle               -2                 -1                   -1
    Heal                 -1                  0                    0
    Hide                  2                  3                    3
    Intimidate            2                 22                   25
    Jump                  5                 22                   22
    Listen               -1                  0                    0
    Move Silently         2                  3                    3
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                  0                    0
    Search               -1                  0                    0
    Spot                 -1                  0                    0
    Swim                  5                 11                   11
    Tumble                n/a                4                    4
    Use Magic Device     n/a               n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+4)
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Intimidate (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
    Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
    Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization II
    Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I
    Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
    Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I
    Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
    Enhancement: Orcish Strength II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
    Last edited by DaSawks; 04-12-2012 at 04:51 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, although VIP players do get free Gold rolls on Daily Dice, so that might fit into your criteria. But when it comes to chest drops, chain rewards, general Daily Dice rolls (what number you get), etc., VIP does not confer additional "luck".

  10. #10
    Community Member smithj_2020's Avatar
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    Now your going fighter? Don't know what you want, if you want barb go 18/2 barb/fighter gives you the extra fears you need, get the TWF line, I have a current 2nd life Horc TWF barb. Currently 17 level.

    15/2 barb/fighter:
    Start statsI think)- +2 times or all stats
    18
    15
    18
    6
    8
    6

    Featsnot 100%)
    PA
    Cleave
    Toughness
    TWF
    ITWF
    IC:slashing

    Missing GTWF. (I think)
    Enhances:
    Extend rage III
    Power rage IV
    Hardy rage III
    Frenzy beserk II
    Barb tough IV
    Racial tough II
    Orc str II
    Extra rage I
    Barb sprint boost I
    Barb damage boost III

    He does very good DPS but I also have a THF Horc barb and he does much more DPS actaully when I compared THF is by far ahead or so it seems
    I feel at home in the darkness, when its just me and my blades...when the hunter takes over!

  11. #11
    Community Member DaSawks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithj_2020 View Post
    Now your going fighter? Don't know what you want, if you want barb go 18/2 barb/fighter gives you the extra fears you need, get the TWF line, I have a current 2nd life Horc TWF barb. Currently 17 level.

    15/2 barb/fighter:
    Start statsI think)- +2 times or all stats
    18
    15
    18
    6
    8
    6

    Featsnot 100%)
    PA
    Cleave
    Toughness
    TWF
    ITWF
    IC:slashing

    Missing GTWF. (I think)
    Enhances:
    Extend rage III
    Power rage IV
    Hardy rage III
    Frenzy beserk II
    Barb tough IV
    Racial tough II
    Orc str II
    Extra rage I
    Barb sprint boost I
    Barb damage boost III

    He does very good DPS but I also have a THF Horc barb and he does much more DPS actaully when I compared THF is by far ahead or so it seems
    Just curious about 18/15/18 instead of 20/15/16. What is the point of HORC if not 20 STR to start? 20 hp at cap is not that big of a deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    No, although VIP players do get free Gold rolls on Daily Dice, so that might fit into your criteria. But when it comes to chest drops, chain rewards, general Daily Dice rolls (what number you get), etc., VIP does not confer additional "luck".

  12. #12
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaSawks View Post
    Just curious about 18/15/18 instead of 20/15/16. What is the point of HORC if not 20 STR to start? 20 hp at cap is not that big of a deal.
    Its 20 HP -vs- +1 to hit/damage. Neither will break it at endgame. Id go with str myself but its more of a personal preference than either choice being a game breaker.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaSawks View Post
    WHAT!!?? MinII is not near the top in DPS? When did this happen? I can see were LitII can be better or perhaps some Epic stuff. Cannith Crafting better? Really? The best I can imagine Cannith Crafting having is +5 Holy (Insert Metal type here) of Greater Bane. If an Artificer is needed in party to out DPS MinII then count me out.
    Min2 is still a solid choice. While you have one set of beaters in your pack, the munchkins have a set for every type of mob. On a twf its fun managing inventory space, heh. They have to have construct beaters, lawful outsider beaters, chaotic outsider beaters, generic epic beaters, etc. All you need is a pair of min2. Its likely that cold iron/good will be coming more into play with the entire Lolth plot as well - oh wait, your min2 covers those too. They are min level 12 so when you TR repeatedly, you just grin when attacked by elite reavers and such when you see others not using beaters that break their DR.
    Last edited by Chai; 04-12-2012 at 05:22 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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