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  1. #1
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    Default 18pal/2mnk TWF = SuperTank?

    My first paladin, wasn't sure how this would play out when I got to running end game/epic content. Turns out, this build is pretty solid. Saves are insanely high, evasion is nice, damage is pretty good. Exhaulted smites are crit'ing for over 500-600 per swing (and can happen up to 3 times on one smite use with double-strike and TWF).

    My question/comments come from hate generation.

    Is TWF better for generating hate than S&B?

    I seem to have no trouble holding aggro on big bosses (only 3 tried so far: Sulu in ToD, the last 2 bosses in epic Devil Assault).

    I realize the S&B method is better for AC when it's relevant, and DR always, but when it comes to getting a bosses attention and more importantly - KEEPING the bosses attention - is TWF better or worse than S&B?

  2. #2
    Community Member Monkey-Boy's Avatar
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    S&B can actually be more . . .

    Say you're a TWFer who uses Khopesh or scimitars . . . you will do about the same hate TWFing or S&B. You get 80% off-hand attacks with half STR bonus on them which is about a wash to the 75% additional hate from your stance when a shield is equipped.

    But if you're a bastard sword user, with the THFing line especially, and are getting glancing blows when a shield is equipped you will generate more threat S&B than TWFing.

    Number-crunchers please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

  3. #3
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    Intimidate is what pulls ahead S&B threat over TWF threat. With a shield, you get 100% hate generation for 12 seconds. Without a shield, you get 100% hate generation for 6 seconds.

    Also, on high AC bosses like eLOB, the -2 to hit with the full TWF line may contribute to less threat generation since you can't rely on SA to-hit (eLOB's AC is in the mid 60s).
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  4. #4
    Community Member Khellendros13's Avatar
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    SnB can be more threat if built right. Improved Shield Bash wit ha DPS shield, and it also allows you to block while shield bashing and retain agro for a significant amount of time. The DR from Shield Mastery and being able to block for a lot of the fight makes even a 0ac SnB toon fairly easy to heal with just scrolls even in Elite VoD or ToD, and is ideal for epic LoB.

    TWF I find is a bit more fun and with evasion and ac still makes a great tank. The insane saves on a Pally/Monk let you get away with a LOT of reckless play. Just how I like it.
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  5. #5
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    18/2 punk for the win!!

  6. #6
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    18/2 with a shield is an impressive tank.

    TWF - not so much
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  7. #7
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    This is a complex question and hopefully the devs release the AC thread soon which will provide some more illumination soon. In today's game where tanking the lord of blades is important having a shield, high healing amp, and quality hit points is more useful then a build that can not do so. Ac is only really useful in the second tier raids and not on epic (unless extreme ac build). The conclusion is Ac is not that important currently. I am thinking even by this summer Ac will mean something totally different then it does now and assume greater importance. I think 18 paladin 2 monk (drow perhaps when you can choose tempest as a racial enhancement) has some real potential from a tanking perspective i.e. it could be one of the best builds out there. We will see how this plays out.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Monkey-Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    This is a complex question and hopefully the devs release the AC thread soon which will provide some more illumination soon. In today's game where tanking the lord of blades is important having a shield, high healing amp, and quality hit points is more useful then a build that can not do so. Ac is only really useful in the second tier raids and not on epic (unless extreme ac build). The conclusion is Ac is not that important currently. I am thinking even by this summer Ac will mean something totally different then it does now and assume greater importance. I think 18 paladin 2 monk (drow perhaps when you can choose tempest as a racial enhancement) has some real potential from a tanking perspective i.e. it could be one of the best builds out there. We will see how this plays out.
    But . .. an 18/2 pally with dumped wisdom and just the 15 DEX you'd start with for TWFing can still break a 90 AC, which is enough for anything where AC still works anyway anyway.

    But yeah . . . I wouldn't plan an anything long term right now. Everything's up in the air with the AC and ENH pass. Now's the time to pack on the PLs and scroll farm. Oh wait, we can't scroll farm!

  9. #9
    Community Member Shadowaras's Avatar
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    Since i have currently a same build and tested pretty much all combos .. S&B has by far more hate generation evn if u have full twf line(which u cant if u making a tank ..not enough feats)... so u have to choose wat u wanna go for when making a pally...tank or dps ...if tank boost your s&b ,dr,hate ..meaning imp shield mastery,imp shield bash,toughness and u set no way any1 will pull agro if u have hate gear and do proper use of divine right and intim...on top of that i use bastard+tower (templar) which boost a bit (small bit since no thf line ) your dps and hate.
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  10. #10
    Community Member lucid8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Intimidate is what pulls ahead S&B threat over TWF threat. With a shield, you get 100% hate generation for 12 seconds. Without a shield, you get 100% hate generation for 6 seconds.

    Also, on high AC bosses like eLOB, the -2 to hit with the full TWF line may contribute to less threat generation since you can't rely on SA to-hit (eLOB's AC is in the mid 60s).
    Doesn't a tower shield confer a -2 to hit as well???

  11. #11
    Community Member Monkey-Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucid8 View Post
    Doesn't a tower shield confer a -2 to hit as well???
    Tower Shield is -2 to-hit.

    TWFing is -2 to-hit with an additional -2 to-hit if the off-hand weapon is not a light weapon and you don't have the OTWF feat.

    Regardless, if you're gonna TWF the ELOB without some form of damage mitigation like a tower shield or monk Earth-stance you're gonna get slaughtered. it's just a bad idea.
    Last edited by Monkey-Boy; 04-03-2012 at 02:25 PM.

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