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Thread: HP Tank

  1. #21
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfORCastrator View Post
    wowo, why not make the +6 con belt a con/gfl belt from Shav and make the trinket a Blasting Chime(mlvl4+) or Bloodstone?
    2 reasons:
    1. I wanted +1 exceptional con on the build without raid gear for an even con score (only source possible).
    2. In my experience the easiest way to get a GFL/+6 con Shav belt is to run ToD. Drop rates in quests for the belts seems to be frustratingly low.
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  2. #22
    Community Member Khellendros13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithj_2020 View Post
    Ouch man, no need for insults....it's not a waste of build points, I mean your going to use those points no matter what, if your a tank con is a smart pick

    And why not take toughness again and again I didn't need any other feats, I had all those I wanted/needed. Plus I can tank everything easy and it's fun to see that many HPs, the build isn't lacking in anything an has a ton of hps it's fun

    BTW my alchemical d axe I didn't post; think I'm going fire/earth/Air:

    To answer Any questions- I think combo of fire/earth first 2 tiers will give me the most dps per swing with Flaming burst, flaming blast, acid blast and disenegration, also seeker +10 won't have to take off epic Brawns which gives me more incite and +20 intim.
    Not insulting, but you didn't list Improved Shield Bash either. This will make you very easy to heal and worth much more than 26hp.

    I still can't see the point in an alchemical Axe for tanking though...all the bosses or importance have resistances or immunities that negate elemental damage, and unless you go flametouched/metallic edges will require an Arty to break DR.

    Sirgog mentioned once about putting air/earth or air I think on a shield. +4ac, +10 stunning and +2 dex or con. That leaves your main hand for a crafted greater bane that natively breaks DR or the new axe.

    Seeker 10 is amusing when you crit on a shield bash for over 100 though, but with all the hate SnB get you would be better off with something to mitigate more damage IMO.
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  3. #23
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khellendros13 View Post
    Not insulting, but you didn't list Improved Shield Bash either. This will make you very easy to heal and worth much more than 26hp.

    I still can't see the point in an alchemical Axe for tanking though...all the bosses or importance have resistances or immunities that negate elemental damage, and unless you go flametouched/metallic edges will require an Arty to break DR.

    Sirgog mentioned once about putting air/earth or air I think on a shield. +4ac, +10 stunning and +2 dex or con. That leaves your main hand for a crafted greater bane that natively breaks DR or the new axe.

    Seeker 10 is amusing when you crit on a shield bash for over 100 though, but with all the hate SnB get you would be better off with something to mitigate more damage IMO.
    Geez, I go to all the trouble to post a build which is somewhat novel and possibly controversial - a non-epic/raid geared tank that can tank eLoB(!) - and all I hear is *crickets*

    Oh the humanity!
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  4. #24
    Community Member Khellendros13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Geez, I go to all the trouble to post a build which is somewhat novel and possibly controversial - a non-epic/raid geared tank that can tank eLoB(!) - and all I hear is *crickets*

    Oh the humanity!
    I avoided commenting because I would only end up talking a bout epic gear. Then realise scrolls are still not dropping. Then rage delete my post and get back to work.

    Actually, it looks pretty decent. I think the Large Guild augment shield will be harder to get than an efang though haha.

    I would suggest making a min2 bsword before triple pos, unless you only ever raid with an arty in party.

    Insightful Reflexes and dumping dex, to pump int/cha is something I never thought of. I like it.
    Last edited by Khellendros13; 03-29-2012 at 05:57 PM.
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  5. #25
    The Hatchery NytCrawlr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExTC View Post
    Especially Wax for going all out and actually posting a build which I will be following very closely if not almost completely
    Yeah, I am partial to Sirgog's build as well. Getting alot of the non-epic gear together, just need to start farming epics once scrolls start dropping again and find a way to knock out seven extra lives quickly.
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  6. #26
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khellendros13 View Post
    I avoided commenting because I would only end up talking a bout epic gear. Then realise scrolls are still not dropping. Then rage delete my post and get back to work.

    Actually, it looks pretty decent. I think the Large Guild augment shield will be harder to get than an efang though haha.

    I would suggest making a min2 bsword before triple pos, unless you only ever raid with an arty in party.

    Insightful Reflexes and dumping dex, to pump int/cha is something I never thought of. I like it.
    I don't think I'd ever make a minII now when Cannith Crafting is so much easier (holy silver/cold iron/adamantine +X bastard sword of greater evil/lawful/construct bane).

    The gear set listed isn't intended as the only items the character carries rather the gear set that would make tanking elob (and other tough raids) plausible. Requiring an artificer along in such a context doesn't seem like such a stretch (though adamantine weapons can be scrolled).

    The LGA shield was with the understanding that the OPs friends are loaded and can acquire one for him. It was also an exercise in seeing if it was possible to hit 80 intimidate without epic gear (for this the full DMs are important).

    I think only 12 intelligence is needed for skills, what would you suggest the extra skill points be spent on? Diplomacy for aggro swapping? Jump? Nothing really comes to mind.
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  7. #27
    Community Member azrael4h's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I find my saves are a lot higher than people expect on my Ftr20.

    Of non-epic raid bosses, only two of them (Elite Horoth and the VOD version of elite Suulomades) have DCs high enough that I fail them on a 2. (Except for Will saves but I'm blanket immune to everything there in fights that don't involve beholders).
    I was going by the fact that this is a first life build without epic gear or greensteel waiting in the bank. Even with some loot gen and maybe crafted stuff available, he's not going to have the same gear as someone who has spent some time on this server. For that, +5 saves is fairly useful. Being able to use Resist (11) wands without UMD and Cure serious wands will also be useful.
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  8. #28
    Community Member Khellendros13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I don't think I'd ever make a minII now when Cannith Crafting is so much easier (holy silver/cold iron/adamantine +X bastard sword of greater evil/lawful/construct bane).

    The gear set listed isn't intended as the only items the character carries rather the gear set that would make tanking elob (and other tough raids) plausible. Requiring an artificer along in such a context doesn't seem like such a stretch (though adamantine weapons can be scrolled).

    The LGA shield was with the understanding that the OPs friends are loaded and can acquire one for him. It was also an exercise in seeing if it was possible to hit 80 intimidate without epic gear (for this the full DMs are important).

    I think only 12 intelligence is needed for skills, what would you suggest the extra skill points be spent on? Diplomacy for aggro swapping? Jump? Nothing really comes to mind.
    If friends are loaded, a Min2 is nothing to make. I agree Cannith crafted is better, but a lot still do not craft. Addy and Silver with Holy and XXX bane or min2, whichever is easier then

    The LGA shield is a good idea, even MGA would be worthwhile and very easy to get via AH browsing. I still love a DPS shield with holy of XXX bane once geared though.

    Not sure on the skills. Intim, UMD, Balance are the must haves. Concentration is not bad with the excess. I would either go Jump or Haggle maybe. Don't need ranks in Jump with Morah's belt but can be useful leveling or when dispelled.

    I think it's a good base for a welfare tank. I am working on a rebuild for my tank that you might like wowo, I'll talk to you later about it.
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  9. #29
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    About Smith mentioning Madstone Boots, they dont really work for an SD/DOS tank. Sure you can get the first 2 minutes with Madstone Rage, but in most fights thats only a fraction of the entire fight, since Madstone Rage cant proc while in SD/DOS stance.

    I wouldnt use Tharnes Goggles either, they are pretty useless if you are tanking. I would personally go for a pair of crafted goggles, blindness immunity with +4 hit and a large augment slot are great goggles for tanking, provides both +4 hit (which is nice since on a first-life toon you might have trouble hitting, since you would have agro most of the time) and +20 HP from the guild augment slot (less will do, if you cant find/afford a large augment slot).

    If you have good friends that are lvl 20, I would greatly recommend at least aiming for the epic claw set. I know you are asking for non-epic gear, but with a bunch of friends it is really fast to grind a claw set. My GFs fighter hit level 20 and I got my guildies to help farm the epic claw set, did a full run on all 4 quests once per day. Took around 10 days before she pulled the bracer shard and completed the set. She even picked up a spare glove scroll that made her some starting cash.
    Last edited by Clayness; 03-30-2012 at 04:49 AM.

  10. #30
    Community Member apekzz's Avatar
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    hey Wax,
    do you think ure welfare build would work on a Helf?
    Wat armor would you suggest b4 gettin DT?
    Planning to use the welfare build you put up for my 6 year old son.for a strange reason he likes Helf..lol
    thks a bunch.
    Last edited by apekzz; 04-08-2012 at 06:11 PM.

  11. #31
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clayness View Post
    About Smith mentioning Madstone Boots, they dont really work for an SD/DOS tank. Sure you can get the first 2 minutes with Madstone Rage, but in most fights thats only a fraction of the entire fight, since Madstone Rage cant proc while in SD/DOS stance.

    I wouldnt use Tharnes Goggles either, they are pretty useless if you are tanking. I would personally go for a pair of crafted goggles, blindness immunity with +4 hit and a large augment slot are great goggles for tanking, provides both +4 hit (which is nice since on a first-life toon you might have trouble hitting, since you would have agro most of the time) and +20 HP from the guild augment slot (less will do, if you cant find/afford a large augment slot).

    If you have good friends that are lvl 20, I would greatly recommend at least aiming for the epic claw set. I know you are asking for non-epic gear, but with a bunch of friends it is really fast to grind a claw set. My GFs fighter hit level 20 and I got my guildies to help farm the epic claw set, did a full run on all 4 quests once per day. Took around 10 days before she pulled the bracer shard and completed the set. She even picked up a spare glove scroll that made her some starting cash.
    The claw scrolls are somewhat difficult to acquire (at least the gloves one is). But you should set it as a medium-term goal anyway.

    On Tharne's - You want to own a set but you won't use it very often. You'll swap it in (in place of either +4 to-hit goggles or in time Greensteel +6 intim goggles) for situations where mobs have concealment or situations where there's a lot of mobs and you aren't intimidating them - in that case you can swing at one you do not have the aggro of.
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  12. #32
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apekzz View Post
    hey Wax,
    do you think ure welfare build would work on a Helf?
    Wat armor would you suggest b4 gettin DT?
    Planning to use the welfare build you put up for my 6 year old son.for a strange reason he likes Helf..lol
    thks a bunch.
    Helf loses:
    +2 intim from no least sentinel
    +4 intim from no sentinel enhancements
    1 feat
    Improved Recovery III
    Epic Chimera's Fang upgrades (as you won't take dragonmarks)

    Helf gains:
    Dilettante feat (paladin for saves or monk for healing amp)
    Second intim timer
    3 feats (as you won't take dragonmarks)

    It can work fine of course. Intim is the main issue, hitting the magic 80 number to handle HoX/eDQ/eLoB is the important target but it can be made up for with a charisma skills GS item or something. Dilettante feat is a hard choice, paladin gives saves which is nice while monk gives healing amp but requires a wisdom investment. With a +2 or +3 wisdom tome it's a little more doable (10 or 11 base wisdom is all that is needed in that case).

    Could certainly be a fun character for your son to play taking the lime light and probably not that hard to play if he can keep intimidate on timer. LoB is harder of course as need to learn the tells but not a big deal on normal. Second intim timer on helf might be confusing.

    Maybe too much pressure to be that young being a raid tank though and the build is specifically built for raids, it isn't optimal for questing.
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  13. #33
    Community Member apekzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    Helf loses:
    +2 intim from no least sentinel
    +4 intim from no sentinel enhancements
    1 feat
    Improved Recovery III
    Epic Chimera's Fang upgrades (as you won't take dragonmarks)

    Helf gains:
    Dilettante feat (paladin for saves or monk for healing amp)
    Second intim timer
    3 feats (as you won't take dragonmarks)

    It can work fine of course. Intim is the main issue, hitting the magic 80 number to handle HoX/eDQ/eLoB is the important target but it can be made up for with a charisma skills GS item or something. Dilettante feat is a hard choice, paladin gives saves which is nice while monk gives healing amp but requires a wisdom investment. With a +2 or +3 wisdom tome it's a little more doable (10 or 11 base wisdom is all that is needed in that case).

    Could certainly be a fun character for your son to play taking the lime light and probably not that hard to play if he can keep intimidate on timer. LoB is harder of course as need to learn the tells but not a big deal on normal. Second intim timer on helf might be confusing.

    Maybe too much pressure to be that young being a raid tank though and the build is specifically built for raids, it isn't optimal for questing.


    Okie..
    So based on your welfare build,what feats would replace the DMs.Assuming starting stats and everything else stays the same.Here's a build i based on the Welfare tank..sorry but was at werk and rushing so it might look wierd..comments and feedback pls esp from the Original builder Wax..



    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
    (18 Fighter \ 2 Monk) 
    Hit Points: 422
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 21
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 16
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    26
    Dexterity             8                    10
    Constitution         16                    18
    Intelligence         14                    16
    Wisdom                8                    10
    Charisma             14                    16
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
    +1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                    20
    Bluff                 2                     3
    Concentration         7                    16
    Diplomacy             2                     3
    Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     3
    Heal                 -1                     0
    Hide                 -1                     0
    Intimidate            4                    42
    Jump                  7                    18
    Listen               -1                     0
    Move Silently        -1                     0
    Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     3
    Search                2                     3
    Spot                  1                     2
    Swim                  3                     8
    Tumble                1                     2
    Use Magic Device      4                    14
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
    Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 5 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 6 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
    
    
    Level 7 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Lightning Reflexes
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
    Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) II
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
    Enhancement: Way of the Tenacious Badger I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
    Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

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