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Thread: Light sources

  1. #1
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    Default Light sources

    May be quite handy in the Underdark.

    As far as I know we do not have torches or the cantrip Light spell in DDO...either would be nice. The advertisement/loading screen does seem to have a player character using Light...

    If it turns out that we're not getting either of these, if it can be done without increasing lag, I humbly request that weapons with the 'Incandescent' property act as torches much in the same way that the sceptre does in Rainbow in the Dark.

    Here are some of the light sources currently in game off the top of my head:

    the torch in Rainbow in the dark
    Lantern Archon
    FVS Archon
    Grease that has been ignited
    flammable quest objects such as boxes or furniture
    Fireballs
    searing light

    Shadow Walk gives a sort of 'darkvision'

    Some fog spells can also help outline objects...

    Have I missed any?

  2. #2
    Community Member Delssar's Avatar
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    I dont see why many of the races dont have Dark vision, they did in PnP.

    When I went for my first time into rainbow with my elf I was sadly disapointed that I couldnt see as it is a racial trait.

  3. #3
    Community Member -Zephyr-'s Avatar
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    I've found that the tier 3 palemaster sla is pretty decent light as well... Not lasting, but as viable as a fireball, and cheap.
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    Hero Marcus-Hawkeye's Avatar
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    if I recall correct the eternal wands also produce a quick lighting of your surroundings

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    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delssar View Post
    I dont see why many of the races dont have Dark vision, they did in PnP.

    When I went for my first time into rainbow with my elf I was sadly disapointed that I couldnt see as it is a racial trait.
    Normal elves in 3.5e only have low-light vision. Dwarves and Drow should have darkvision though.
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  6. #6

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    Implementing real darkness would put darkvision races at a MASSIVE advantage over anyone else.

    Basically every underground quest would be Rainbow. Except instead of carrying around the uber-powered caster stick that is the Radiant Arc, all the other races would be carrying statless lanterns and torches. Game would have been scrapped before it even got out of alpha testing.

    Ever play a human, barbarian, or erudite in Everquest in the earlier days? Getting a greater lightstone was possibly the greatest thing that could ever happen to you. The most highly sought-after piece of equipment in the game was...a glowing rock. Whole sections of the game would basically just come to a stop when nighttime came because only dark elves with their ultravision could see at all passibly. Everyone else huddled around the towns where the torches were.

    If EQ hadn't been the only game in town, it would never have lasted past the first 3 months like that.
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  7. #7

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    This was brought up long ago when the game was first under development. It was explained as characters already carry a basic light source it's just an automatically there thing. There are many quests where we shouldn't be able to see but we can because we are using this default lighting.

    The rainbow in the dark quest was then later explained that it was a magical darkness impervious to our normal light source.

    I am personally ok with this. I don't need to be bothered with torch lighting mechanics or inventory use.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    Implementing real darkness would put darkvision races at a MASSIVE advantage over anyone else.

    Basically every underground quest would be Rainbow. Except instead of carrying around the uber-powered caster stick that is the Radiant Arc, all the other races would be carrying statless lanterns and torches. Game would have been scrapped before it even got out of alpha testing.

    Ever play a human, barbarian, or erudite in Everquest in the earlier days? Getting a greater lightstone was possibly the greatest thing that could ever happen to you. The most highly sought-after piece of equipment in the game was...a glowing rock. Whole sections of the game would basically just come to a stop when nighttime came because only dark elves with their ultravision could see at all passibly. Everyone else huddled around the towns where the torches were.

    If EQ hadn't been the only game in town, it would never have lasted past the first 3 months like that.
    EQ was not the only game in town. There were others even in 1999-2000. People are still playing EQ1 today and it is still profitable. 3 months? More like 13 years.

    This would be a mere technicality in DDO, as monte haul as this game is, as all that would be needed to mitigate this situation would be a pile of ultravision scrolls, or a pile of light or continual light scrolls. Magical weapons also give off light.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-22-2012 at 08:36 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Community Member decease's Avatar
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    we already have such thing implement. just check out rainbow in the dark.

  10. #10

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    There were others even in 1999-2000
    There was Ultima Online, which had major downsides for folks who weren't interested in gankfest pvp 24/7.

    Yes, it is still around (and just went F2P), but if there were any serious competition, the light thing would have driven people away in droves. Just taking a level 1 barbarian out of Halas was a nightmare because the tunnel to Everfrost was pitch black. It was easy to get so turned around that you zoned straight back into Halas.
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  11. #11
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus-Hawkeye View Post
    if I recall correct the eternal wands also produce a quick lighting of your surroundings
    For the most part yes.

    I've used the eternal acid splash, fire finger, and light whatever many a time to do a quick "pulse" to get an idea of where to go next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    ... as monte haul as this game is....
    +1 for using this term, i feel the same way, and I've learned so much about you and your play background from just those 7 words.

    /cheers from The Drunken Monk himself.

    EDIT: Apparently I need to spread around the love before I +1 you again.
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  13. #13
    2015 DDO Players Council InsanityIsYourFriend's Avatar
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    personally i think yes light should be implemented a little more
    in the underdark it is incredibly dark, but if i'm guessing right, we will be able to see as well as we do above ground, i think that the darkness should be implemented, with points of light ~as i am reading the books there is light down there in the form of fungi candles and other such things~ and i would LOVE for cantrips! they should be 0-1 spell points tho
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  14. #14
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matuse View Post
    There was Ultima Online, which had major downsides for folks who weren't interested in gankfest pvp 24/7.

    Yes, it is still around (and just went F2P), but if there were any serious competition, the light thing would have driven people away in droves. Just taking a level 1 barbarian out of Halas was a nightmare because the tunnel to Everfrost was pitch black. It was easy to get so turned around that you zoned straight back into Halas.
    And yet, somehow those players still leveled to cap and found solutions to their issues. The entitlement complex that alot of gamers have nowdays didnt exist then though. People werent going to leave EQ over a simple lighting issue. They would kill willow wisps until a greater light stone dropped and slot it up. Or they didnt play barbarians, erudites, or humans.

    We are talking about a game where it was well accepted and well known that the top 5% would have the best gear, and not even in all slots. Raid bosses appeared once per week per server on ONE instance. After the first two years, it was said by one of their devs that there were ~15 cloaks of flames (the haste cloak) on each server. They had over a million subscribers.

    Compare that to nowdays, where people think that every player should just be entitled to the best gear just for showing up. You are using todays gamer attitude to define what "would have" happened then, but the attitude was far from the same then. When 10 or less people on each server had their epic weapons, people just shrugged and accepted that they could not play an MMO 14 hours a day 7 days a week so they would make due with the second best item on the server.

    In EQ dying was losing 1/3 to 1/2 of your level. It was the accepted norm - dont die. You respawn at your bind point and your corpse with all its gear is still at the bottom of the god forsaken dungeon you couldnt even survive in with all your best gear on. When DDO came out people complained their faces off about XP debt, which pales in comparison to old school death penalties.

    Trust me, going to EC or FP (wherever your servers congregated auction zone was) and picking up a lightstone wasnt an issue, at all. Todays gamer masses might complain about something like this, but we arent even talking about the same animal.
    Last edited by Chai; 03-23-2012 at 01:50 PM.
    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

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    Community Member Zyerz's Avatar
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    You missed one. High contrast and gamma in the options panel.

    Torches would be a really nice addition... Imo
    Lolths realm is bound to be really dark as the name itself states.

    "Hikari datte, yami datte, kitto"

    Into light, into darkness, surely.

  16. #16

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    The entitlement complex that alot of gamers have nowdays didnt exist then though.
    Of course it did. Loot scarcity, griefplay among guilds competing for boss spawns..that is what composed a sizable portion of EQ threads. You think people are just magically different now than they were then? Hell no. That's the same kind of attitude that has people talking about "barrens chat", like there's a chemical in the water in the Barrens that turns people into trolling imbeciles. It's just people. This is what people are like. It's what people have always been like. Barring serious genetic modification, it's what people are ALWAYS going to be like.

    There just weren't any decent options to go to.

    As soon as options did start to present themselves; people left.

    Last year Sony sent me an email saying they had reactivated my long-lapsed account for 2 weeks. My curiosity was piqued, so I endured the download and logged in. I couldn't stand it for more than 5 minutes. The interface and mechanics are so clumsy and primitive and horrible. Why did I put up with it at the time for so long? Because it was the only game in town. Literally. And by town, I mean the whole world. Nearly all of the non-EQ games that were released in the immediate aftermath of EQ's success had a huge PvP focus, and that kind of gameplay just does not appeal to a huge segment of the population (and certainly not to me). When you don't have any good alternatives, and you've spent a couple of years building up your character; you're not inclined to skip out.

    But when there are alternatives, and you haven't put that time investment in place, then you're not inclined to stay more than a little while. This isn't 1999, and we do have a lot of choices. One of the driving forces behind MotU is to attract new players with the Forgotten Realms. If you take those new players and either cripple them or blindfold them if they don't play a dwarf/drow, you won't be keeping those players very long. Logging into EQ for the first time and finding my character couldn't see an inch in front of him, and it was just "That's the way it is". If I were to log into a game that did that today? My thought process would be "If they got something so simple so badly wrong, then the important stuff must be truly terrible", and I'd log off and never think about logging in again.

    It has nothing to do with any entitlement complex. This is just basic game functionality. Blinding your players for huge sections of the game is simply bad design. Even survival/horror games (or games that include segments of that) like Half Life or Resident Evil still give you a flashlight or some equivalent. Note that in the one dark dungeon that exists in DDO, the light source you get has ZOMG uber attributes, so that the person carrying it isn't crippled by it. Are they going hand out an epic radiant arc to everyone when they travel to Faerun? One that doesn't get lost when you exit the quest? I rather doubt it.

    And let's say that Turbine does make the Underdark pitch black. What are we getting out of that? What benefit is provided to the game as a whole? Immersion? Pffft. If you want immersion, then we should all be playing permadeath, and you can only ever do any quest one time.
    Last edited by Matuse; 03-23-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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  17. #17
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    As long as lighting was easy for everyone to get and carry the darkness would be a nice added effect. But they would need to also add lighting effects to flame arrows and bolts (IMO) to have the full 'tracer' type effect.

    Of course, last I read the engine was limited in the number of lights on an object and I am not sure if the engine revisions in the expansion include a revision to that.

    As an aside, I find the dark in Rainbow to be a bit 'much' and wouldn't want it that bad in the expansion. On the other hand, the light that the Lantern Archon adds is kind of nice. If the underdark was kind of dark but the light sources added light like the Lantern Archon does I think that would be pretty nice.


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    I loved the lighting and excessive length involved with EQ. It was imersive and created challenges and memories. It once took me 2 hours to take my erudite cleric from Erudin to Kelethin only to be so excited to start xping in crushbone that I forgot to bind myself to kelethin. I only realised this when I hit a D'Vinn train just inside crushbone and respawned in Nektulos Forest!!!! I know its not to everyones taste - I know people who quit the character and even the game instead of run a huge corpse run like that.

    Lighting isnt an issue in D&D PnP, at low levels maybe (I ususally have a porter or mule carrying stacks of 1cp torches for me), but not for mid to high levels. A good portion of magical weapons give light as bright as a torch (cant recall the % chance) not only that we also have hirelings to carry torches (would actually make some of them useful...)

    One thing that would be an issue though is darkvision being black and white. kind of gives you an idea how someone colorblind might solve reavers

    Underdark will be gloomy but I dont think it needs to be addressed like PnP rules. what we have now works fine but I hope vision does play a part in the underdark like rainbow. Personally I hope Drow do get the ability to cast magical darkness and we get the light spell to counter it.
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  19. #19
    The Hatchery RabidKoala's Avatar
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    If it is actually dark then incadesence and brilance weapons should provide a light source. Imagine the amount of people during mabar who would stock up on oils of incadesence.

  20. #20
    The Hatchery GeneralDiomedes's Avatar
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    The drow will probably litter their dungeons with glowing crystals and eternal torches just like everyone else .. however it would be nice to have another Rainbow-like quest just for flavor.

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