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  1. #21
    Community Member Valindria's Avatar
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    It's a secret because if they told us then we could tell when it's bugged or broken on release.

  2. #22
    The Hatchery CThruTheEgo's Avatar
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    I think the best way to consider this is from a business standpoint: how can Turbine make money from epic levels? Giving players the mutually exclusive option of TR or epic levels doesn't seem right as they would stand to lose money from people not going the TR route. Without knowing how epic levels work, it's anyone guess as to how they will make money from them. But Turbine is likely going to find a middle ground so that they can keep both money-making options open to all players. This is just good business sense. Just my 2 cp.
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  3. #23
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    look em up a dev pretty much said so plus the fact that tring is still done from lvl 20


    IF you look at ddo is pretty far from standard already
    I've read pretty much eveything posted by the devs and I don't have that impression at all.

    For example (from the wiki: ddowiki.com/page/Menace_of_the_Underdark ):

    • Attain Epic levels to 25!
      • Forge your own epic adventure and create a unique Epic hero with powerful character customization options as you advance beyond level 20 to epic level 25.
      • Levels up to 25 will be available to everyone, even free to play players without purchasing the expansion.

    • Epic Destinies
      • A alternate advancement system that players can use to advance their level21+ character. The game will be separated into "heroic" advance (as now, except up to level25) and "epic" destiny advancement, which will require players to run epic content to earn XP to spend on these special enhancements. They will likely be unlocked at level21, but unlike regular "heroic" advancement, you can may progress your epic destinies indefinitely - even after you hit the new level cap of 25. Speculation: You may be limited in how many you can slot, and require addition "epic" experience to replace slotted destinies, similar to games original enhancement system from 2006.
    The sentence: :The game will be separated into "heroic" advance (as now, except up to level25)" says just the opposite to me. You will be able to level to 25 just like now, except not capped at 20. Epic Destinies are separate from Epic Levels 21-25.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    I've read pretty much eveything posted by the devs and I don't have that impression at all.

    For example (from the wiki: ddowiki.com/page/Menace_of_the_Underdark ):

    • Attain Epic levels to 25!
      • Forge your own epic adventure and create a unique Epic hero with powerful character customization options as you advance beyond level 20 to epic level 25.
      • Levels up to 25 will be available to everyone, even free to play players without purchasing the expansion.

    • Epic Destinies
      • A alternate advancement system that players can use to advance their level21+ character. The game will be separated into "heroic" advance (as now, except up to level25) and "epic" destiny advancement, which will require players to run epic content to earn XP to spend on these special enhancements. They will likely be unlocked at level21, but unlike regular "heroic" advancement, you can may progress your epic destinies indefinitely - even after you hit the new level cap of 25. Speculation: You may be limited in how many you can slot, and require addition "epic" experience to replace slotted destinies, similar to games original enhancement system from 2006.
    The sentence: :The game will be separated into "heroic" advance (as now, except up to level25)" says just the opposite to me. You will be able to level to 25 just like now, except not capped at 20. Epic Destinies are separate from Epic Levels 21-25.
    This is more information other than from the underdark.ddo.com website. From the website directly I do not get such an impression.

    Here is the quote from the Director of Development:

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Lot of great questions in this thread and I'm just using this post as example. All questions will be answered in time, but I did want to point out a couple things.

    Epic levels will use a different XP system and players will still be able to TR at level 20. TR will remain a 'heroic' feature and continue to be highly relevant.

    Please excuse me for being brief, I'm in the middle of moving and have lots of packing to do.
    I got the impression that levels after 20 will be different. Otherwise, there is no point being pure class, i.e. no point in NOT doing multi-class builds WHILE also maintaining the capstone and attaining epic spells. e.g. 20 sorcerer/5monk for evasion, extra toughness feats, -25% spell point cost, monk speed, monk AC, slow fall, disease immunity, better saves, etc. Or better yet, why not 20sorcerer/3monk/2paladin with crazy saves, evasion, 2 extra toughness feats, -25% spell point cost, monk speed, monk AC into the mix?
    Last edited by Tyrande; 03-15-2012 at 05:25 PM.

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  5. #25
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TPICKRELL View Post
    I've read pretty much eveything posted by the devs and I don't have that impression at all.

    For example (from the wiki: ddowiki.com/page/Menace_of_the_Underdark ):

    • Attain Epic levels to 25!
      • Forge your own epic adventure and create a unique Epic hero with powerful character customization options as you advance beyond level 20 to epic level 25.
      • Levels up to 25 will be available to everyone, even free to play players without purchasing the expansion.

    • Epic Destinies
      • A alternate advancement system that players can use to advance their level21+ character. The game will be separated into "heroic" advance (as now, except up to level25) and "epic" destiny advancement, which will require players to run epic content to earn XP to spend on these special enhancements. They will likely be unlocked at level21, but unlike regular "heroic" advancement, you can may progress your epic destinies indefinitely - even after you hit the new level cap of 25. Speculation: You may be limited in how many you can slot, and require addition "epic" experience to replace slotted destinies, similar to games original enhancement system from 2006.
    The sentence: :The game will be separated into "heroic" advance (as now, except up to level25)" says just the opposite to me. You will be able to level to 25 just like now, except not capped at 20. Epic Destinies are separate from Epic Levels 21-25.
    The words seperated and alternate seem pretty clear its going to be different and I cant see how anyone would think otherwise

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  6. #26
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    the question isn't about the wording. It's about the accuracy of the wiki page quoted, which is quite different than anything turbine has officially said.

  7. #27
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tboner View Post
    the question isn't about the wording. It's about the accuracy of the wiki page quoted, which is quite different than anything turbine has officially said.
    I am going off what has been offically said and not wiki as I dont care for wiki or trust anything posted there.

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  8. #28
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I am going off what has been offically said and not wiki as I dont care for wiki or trust anything posted there.
    The Wiki is generally reliable for published material. It should not be relied upon for unpublished material.

    Although the Wiki often turns out to be correct regarding yet to be released material, that is no guarantee.

    IMO Turbine is most likely to offer something very similar to the "official" D&D epic levels and that does include class choices as each epic level is attained. However, if the entire enhancement system is being reworked (as some posts have suggested) then it becomes entirely too speculative to try and plan a level 25 build.

    It seems that we will just have to wait until more information is officially released.

  9. #29
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    In addition, the ddowiki is a significantly more reliable source of correct information than some official Turbine employees *cough*Fernando*cough*.

  10. #30
    Community Member maddmatt70's Avatar
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    Level 21-25 is going to be a massive grind. I was very curious as to why Turbine put major learning tomes and store,etc. xp pots into the game. What this means is the grind from 1-20 is greatly lessened. Turbine must have a grind otherwise people stop playing the game so any lessening of the grind seems at cross purposes to the goal unless there is a new grind on the horizon to take the place of an old grind. The new grind in this case is level 21-25 and the old grind is level 1-20..
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  11. #31
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    The Wiki is generally reliable for published material. It should not be relied upon for unpublished material.

    Although the Wiki often turns out to be correct regarding yet to be released material, that is no guarantee.

    IMO Turbine is most likely to offer something very similar to the "official" D&D epic levels and that does include class choices as each epic level is attained. However, if the entire enhancement system is being reworked (as some posts have suggested) then it becomes entirely too speculative to try and plan a level 25 build.

    It seems that we will just have to wait until more information is officially released.


    Well it might be acceptable for ddo but it's not an acceptable source for most universities as a research source

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  12. #32
    Community Member Bart_D's Avatar
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    • Attain Epic levels to 25!
      • Forge your own epic adventure and create a unique Epic hero with powerful character customization options as you advance beyond level 20 to epic level 25.
      • Levels up to 25 will be available to everyone, even free to play players without purchasing the expansion.

    • Epic Destinies
      • A alternate advancement system that players can use to advance their level21+ character. The game will be separated into "heroic" advance (as now, except up to level25) and "epic" destiny advancement, which will require players to run epic content to earn XP to spend on these special enhancements. They will likely be unlocked at level21, but unlike regular "heroic" advancement, you can may progress your epic destinies indefinitely - even after you hit the new level cap of 25. Speculation: You may be limited in how many you can slot, and require addition "epic" experience to replace slotted destinies, similar to games original enhancement system from 2006.
    I don't know if the red part is official or not, but to me it sounds like you buy epic enhancements (or enhancement points) with xp and will be able to do so indefinitely. Xp not spent on enhancements might then be used to gain epic levels which may be how you unlock further enhancements or enhancement levels. I'm expecting things like:
    - Epic Toughness
    - Epic Stat Increases
    - Epic Spell Penetration
    - Epic Spell DC boosts
    - Epic Spell Points
    - Epic Spell Damage/Crit%/Crit Multiplier (seperated by energy type)
    - Epic Weapon Damage
    - Epic Defense Bonus
    - Epic Saves
    - Epic Damage Reduction
    - and so on, lots of stuff everyone will want

    As long as enhancements increase enough in cost/grind the more you have, there is really no reason to put a hard limit on the number you can get. Something like each enhancement point costing 10-20% more than the previous one might be sufficient to create a soft ceiling for people to keep grinding epic xp for.

  13. #33
    Founder & Hero Uska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qoolboxer View Post
    Yes, that is how I hope/think it should work.

    Otherwise, if players are allowed only to TR at level 20, then many players may end up holding back advancing past level 20 since it will be a one way road. If players are allowed to TR after level 20 but epic progression is simply lost if they do, then it penalizes TRing too much (once again making players ponder too hard about whether or not to want to enjoy epic levels, basically getting stuck at level 20).

    If you have advanced to epic level 25, and one day decides to TR, you lose all epic benefits and has to rework back to level 20, at which point you recover "lost memories" and re-attain your almost demigod-like status.
    Sorry I disagree I think if you tr and you do have epic levels they are gone and you will have to reearn them once you hit 20 again its harsh but thats my thoiught we will see

    I do think epic levels will change the tr game a bit but we need more information first.

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  14. #34
    Community Member lugoman's Avatar
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    I am guessing they will be virtual levels that will entitle you to new epic enhancements. I wonder how the epic level xp will be earned - from any quest or only from epic quest. Will the enhancements be useful in all content or just in epic content (ie, an enhancement that lets you bypass epic wards).

    If you ever played Anarchy Online I am guessing the epic levels will be like research xp in AO.
    Last edited by lugoman; 03-28-2012 at 01:50 PM.

  15. #35
    Community Member Warinx's Avatar
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    In PnP Epic levels don't give you BAB HP or Save. However many classes gain bonus feats and/or class abilities theese levels.

    Epic Feats:
    Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (make as many offhand attacks as you make mainhand)
    Great Strength (+1 Strength)
    Improved Sneak Attack (+1d6 Sneak Attack)
    Epic Spell Focus
    Epic Toughness

    I'm guessing they're going to stick pretty close to that since there's little reason not to. Maybe generic classes and the feats have prerequisites.
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  16. #36
    Community Member Zyerz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonhighlord1 View Post
    I still can not find any level 25 builds. Any links? Is it 25 levels to play with ? I was wanting to do a 17fs,6ranger,2monk. I did 12fs/ 6ranger/ 2monk for my 3rd tr and leveling was fast and really fun, but not much good beyond shroud. On that not, imo, if you are planning on TRing or completionist zero thought should be put or considered about end game.

    Now that level 25 is coming up in a few months I was going to just keep him around and work on my other trs, but I cant even find one sample level 25 build or builder. I am guessing that I have been misinformed and the level 25 is not really 25 levels but 20 levels with bonus epic stuff?
    News of this will be probably released in the beta, or by the devs on an interview. From what I gather, you cant make a lv 25 toon, per se. You get to 20, and then choose the 5 epic levels of your highest class (I'm assuming thats how it would work for multiclass characters).

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  17. #37
    Community Member StableKobold's Avatar
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    About level 25 builds,The format is very trollish.
    Think of what could you benefit from it:
    regular formats of 12/6/2 becomes....17/6/2?No third line enhancements(which will exist at the summer) ? how trollish.
    Only build i could think on is cleric or fvs18/(Insert some class which isnt:Monk,Barbarian,Bard here.My favorite is rogue for evasion and afew trapping)6/Monk1.

  18. #38
    Community Member gerardIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragonhighlord1 View Post
    I have been misinformed and the level 25 is not really 25 levels but 20 levels with bonus epic stuff?
    You have not been misinformed, you just didn't read the information Turbine released.

  19. #39
    Community Member Lorichie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    Level 21-25 is going to be a massive grind. I was very curious as to why Turbine put major learning tomes and store,etc. xp pots into the game. What this means is the grind from 1-20 is greatly lessened. Turbine must have a grind otherwise people stop playing the game so any lessening of the grind seems at cross purposes to the goal unless there is a new grind on the horizon to take the place of an old grind. The new grind in this case is level 21-25 and the old grind is level 1-20..
    i dont doubt it's going to be a grind, of some kind, personally, i think it's got to be enough of a grind until they release another exp pack next year, with a couple updates used as fillers for the new area until then.

    To me, the massive rise in ability to gain xp was done for two reasons, to help with tr and to get newer folks to level 20 and into the new area quicker. since they released info stating epic levels and new area, i've always felt that levels 1-20 in eberron will be the new "training" area, with the epic level areas as the new meat and potato's area...and any expansion areas that follow in teh future, which is why i think they'll release one a year...

    An expansion once per year (ish) ensures that this game makes enough money (and of course the store) to last indefinately..as long as they can bring us to new areas, and continue to raise epic levels successfully, i know i won't leave...

    (All of the above is pure guesswork...It's just simply how i would do it, if i was important enough to do so, and it makes sense, at least to me...mebbe a few tweaks...i feel it also takes enough of us out of the eberron area, and spreads us out elsewhere to solve the lag problem lol, or at least reduce it a bit...ok, mebbe that was a bit more redonkulous...but still...)

    Just some random useless thoughts...

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  20. #40

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    The format is very trollish.
    For the purposes of clarity, please define "Trollish".
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