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  1. #1
    Community Member hobgoblins's Avatar
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    Default The Electrician Solo SOTO

    The E l E c T r I c i A n

    The Build:

    18 Sorcerer/ 1 Barbarian/ 1 Bard
    (Bard at first lvl and Barb at some lvl after int tome consumed)

    32 point build min but 36 points are preferred

    20 Con
    X Intelligence (Place any remaining points)
    16 Charisma (all lvl ups placed here)

    Skills:

    Concentration as much as can be obtained
    UMD target 48 skill for lightning motes
    Intimidate 36 point build only, need 79 skill

    Feats:

    Empower
    Evocation
    Heighten
    Shield Mastery
    Maximize
    Toughness
    Wizard Past Life (if able)

    Enhancements:

    The key ones are

    Barbarian Sprint Boost I
    Extra Bard Song
    Max Electrical Enhancement Line
    Toughness Enh's
    Minor Reconstruction Line with no crit mods
    Air Savant III
    Constitution
    Charisma
    Scroll Mastery II
    Single point in Fire/Ice at least
    Warforged Spell Failure Reduction

    Spells:
    (off)=no meta's (heighten)=only heighten meta

    1st Expeditious Retreat, Protection Evil, Nightshield, Cause fear (off)!,Jump*
    (optional Focusing Chant, Hypnotism (off),ray of enfeeblement)

    2nd Web, Resist Energy, Knock*, Hypnotic Pattern*
    (there are many marginal spells at this lvl )

    3rd Rage, Haste, Displacement, Sleet storm
    (optional repair serious damage (off), chain missiles)

    4th Dimension Door!, Ice Storm!, Firewall, Solid Fog*
    (optional Enervation)

    5th Eladar's!,Niac's!, Ball lightning, Cloudkill*
    Note: Keep two icons for both DOT's , one with meta's one without
    (optional Cyclonic Blast, Break Enchantment, Mind Fog)

    6th Chain Lightning, Disintegrate, Reconstruct!
    (All the above seem mandatory)

    7th FOD!, Prismatic Spray(heighten)!, Waves of Exhaustion*
    (optional Otto's Sphere of Dancing gets 6th man award)

    8th Power Word Stun!,Irresistible Dance*
    (optional Sunburst, Polar Ray, Greater Shout)

    9th Energy Drain!
    (No room for HMM,PWK,WOB )

    *Substitution Candidates
    ! Core Spell

    Gear:

    You should be carrying everything listed, make sure to
    buy an extra bag slot

    Main Hand: Greensteel Conc Oppo Constitution +3 Exc.*, Epic Eyld's Edge,
    Staff of the Petitioner, Epic Staff of Arcane Power, Epic Flameward,
    Epic Ornamental Dagger, Epic Green Blade,Epic Dynastic Falcatta,
    Epic Roderic's Wand, Epic Winters Wrath, Epic Brimstone Verge, Epic
    Cacophonic Verge, Greensteel Cold Absorption item, Hammer of Life (BotDC),
    Greensteel haste clicky

    Off Hand: Crystal Large Shield Mystical Water/Martial Earth/Mystical Fire*,
    Levic's, Lorikk's, Epic Swashbuckler,Light and Darkness

    Eyes: Greensteel Conc Oppo Spell Points* ( I am lazy and don't want to switch to a
    greensteel Hp item every shrine, this build has enough clicking going on. If you are up to it
    make a greensteel hp item to switch out after you have expended sufficient spell points.),
    Tangleroot Deathward clicky's

    Helm: Greensteel Hp Earthgrab* (See above. The Epic Darkstorm Helm may have some merit),
    Delfic Diadem, Epic Big Top , Epic Mask of Comedy

    Neck: Epic Torc*, Epic Shimmering Pendant, Korthos clicky,
    Epic Twisted Talisman, Twisted Talisman, Haggle necklace. Bluff neck

    Trinket: Blasting Chimes* (carry at least 3 versions, two with
    Greater Impulse I and 33% Fire/Electric Absorb and one epic version with +2 luck slotted perhaps),
    Erdweller, Epic Brawn's Spirit, Pale Lavender, Lesser Cunning Trinket, Mysterious Bauble,
    Epic Treasure Hunters Spy Glass, Litany (only for clicky) Flexibility at trinket slot needed.

    Cloak: Mabar Cloak*,Epic Cloak of Flames,Epic P. Mirror, Worldshaper

    Belt: Air Savant belt*,Singed,Telvi's, Crafted Guild Slot, Purging the Pantheon,jump belt

    Gloves: 2x Crafted Guild slot* (one for guild sp, one for guild hp),Epic Gloves of the Claw,
    Vile Blasphemy (as many as you can get)

    Boots: Epic Boots of Corrosion*,Tod Boots, Boots of Propulsion

    Ring I : Epic Ring of the Master Artificer*, Ring of Lies

    Ring II: Air Savant Ring*, Epic Ring of the Mire, Spell Storing Ring, Divine Power Clickies, Anathema

    Bracers: Epic Bracers of the Wind*, Bracers of the Demon's Consort

    Docent: Dragontouched* Fear/Crushing Wave/Radiance, Docent of Defiance,
    +10 Reflex, Crafted Bloodrage/X Guild Enchant Docent

    *General gear set



    Scrolls and Various Sundries:

    Scrolls:
    Adamantine Weapons
    Break Enchantment
    Byshek Weapons
    Enchant Weapons (1dr to shields cheap in AH)
    Fire Shield
    Greater Heroism
    Greater Restoration/Restoration
    Greater Teleport
    Halt Undead
    Heal
    Invisibility
    Lightning Motes! (need 48 UMD)
    Protection from Elements
    Raise Dead
    Recon
    Resurrection
    Shadow Walk
    Teleport

    Potions:
    Cheater Potions (Mnemonic)
    Potions of Blind/Curse removal if needed
    Yugo Hit Points/Charisma
    Silver Flame Healing

    Other:
    Mending Clickies
    Spark Clickies
    Freeze Clickies
    Stoneskin Wands
    Repair Critical Wands
    Heal Critical Wands




    Selling points:

    Speed:Fastest build possible depending on definition.
    10%,34%boosts,Wind step (monk/ranger hybrid may
    be faster depending on conditions)

    Tanky: Tops out in mid 600s hp. Usually has a shield
    so shield mastery reduces incoming damage. Knockdown
    resistance. WF with DOD and wind step to adjust

    Heavy hitter: Air Sorc

    UMDer supreme: 48 skill

    Intimidator: 79 skill for full build

    Singer: Facinates



    Lets start with a direct comparison between this build and a
    pure Air savant Wf Sorc:

    (In perceived descending magnitude)

    Pro's

    10% inherent speed increase
    Shield Mastery feat
    Umd Skill (Full build can get 48 UMD)
    Intimidate Skill (Full build can get to 79 )
    20 hit points
    35% sprint boosts
    2 Fascinates/Perform Skill
    2 Saves (+2 Reflex/+2 Fort/+1 Will to be exact)
    18 Skill Points
    1 1st lvl spell slot
    Shield prof feat
    Martial weapon prof
    1 Rage (for jumping traps )



    Con's

    -8.5% spell damage*
    -2 Lvl 9 spells
    -1 misc feat (placeholder for Shield mastery)
    -2 Spell Penetration
    -~75 Spell points (~3100sp on Q entry so not too bad)
    -1 Enhancement points
    -1 Lvl 8 spell


    *-7.4% Loss from capstone and if you don't have arcane augmentation you will lose one lvl
    on the electric dot, one lvl on chain lighting, two lvls on cold dot and perhaps some
    other spells you may choose to take outside of the recommended spell list. To account for these few spells
    ill round the spell damage loss to %8.5 which is prolly an over approximation against the electrician build.




    Keep in mind speed not only substantially reduces incoming damage, it also allows
    you to be at the right spot at the right time. This build often gets 2 or more spells
    cast per encounter because of its placement. It can also stand and continue to
    deliver damage when others would have to disengage due to its substantially
    higher survivability. Coupled with the ability to cast lightning motes one could
    argue it can deliver more not less damage in real conditions that are not static
    non threatening situations. It can cast resurrection which is not within the reach
    of most umders and cast many of the harder arti buffs which adds utility to groups.
    2 Fascinates can act as a panic button in soloing situations or in elite groups or something like von base 3.

    The main roll in groups (on scale of 1-10) is:
    Kiting 11: It would be hard to imagine a better kiter.

    Nuker 9: Only well geared Ice savants make substantially
    better static nukers.

    Tank 7.5: This build makes a perfect non top tier boss tank.
    It can keep aggro with the very best of them.
    Epic Lob might be a bit too much for its 630 hp
    build though. (It can obtain 59 Damage reduction)

    CC 4: This build synergises well with a wizard as the
    micro cc often has the effect of gathering and
    condensing mobs for the wiz to target. When
    without a wizard the high threat gen (intim,
    anathema, dps) combined with short term cc
    allows other dps a damage free working
    environment.

    Heal/resser/buffer 2: Second rate healer but when other
    healers are dead something is better than nothing.
    Considering its superior survivability its common in
    close to wipes for it to be the last toon standing.




    After having been rejected from numerous pug groups over the last year, I thought
    it would be good to present this build to the community as a whole in order to
    explain in detail the merits of this non pure sorc build. I have had great fun with
    this build and will finish off with a few of focusfires achievements before riding off to the next build.
    (12 cleric,6paladin, 2monk Charisma Tank)


    Solo Epic Servants of the Overlord 0 deaths, 0 pots

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...hot00003y.jpg/



    Solo Epic Devils Assault

    To be posted in future

    FocusFire Argo
    Last edited by hobgoblins; 04-20-2012 at 07:11 PM. Reason: Edited for Accuracy

  2. #2
    Community Member BitkaCK2's Avatar
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    This is why I love this game. Well played good sirrah.

    Bravo,
    bitkaCK2
    "That's right, remember there's a big difference between kneeling down and bending over..." ~ Heavenly Bank Account by Frank Zappa
    "Your 'Gin n' tonic Futon Brain' cyborg implants sure make you smart!" ~ Seraphita, Element of Fire

  3. #3
    The Hatchery Syllph's Avatar
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    Does that completion time say 284 min? As in almost 5 hours?

    You're way more patient than I am.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobgoblins View Post

    Pro's

    10% inherent speed increase
    Intimidate Skill (Full build can get to 79 )
    35% sprint boosts
    2 Fascinates/Perform Skill
    2 Saves



    Con's

    -8.5% spell damage*
    -2 Lvl 9 spells
    -2 Spell Penetration
    -1 Lvl 8 spell
    -1 DC due to no capstone
    I had to take the garbage out of the pro's and con's list so I could read it better. I also added an important one that you left off.

    Not to say that you shouldn't play what you want just letting you know that you shouldn't get offended if you get rejected by playing a sub optimal build. This build could even be considered optimal for a TR if the extra movement speed helped them to level faster however, it is clearly worse than a 20 sorc by a wide margin. Bottom line is 18 levels of sorc will get you tier 3 savant and make a pretty powerful character. Geared properly and played by a good player you can solo much of the end game content. Intim can be a powerful weapon on an arcane so I see plenty of sorcs with a light splash for intim.

    Party leaders looking for CC will still likely reject you. If they're looking for DPS and they reject you then it's their loss (for most content). If they're looking for fascinating 3x islands in VoN 6 then you likely won't fit that mold. Just don't take it personally.


    edit:// just curious as to why you didn't put your level up points into constitution. According to your statement "It can also stand and continue to
    deliver damage when others would have to disengage due to its substantially higher survivability." Survivability increases your damage output. 4 points into CON would put you 40 HP higher which would probably increase your damage quite a bit. Also not really sure how 10% movement speed translates to 2 more spells per encounter. I know there is a benefit to movement speed I just doubt it is as much as you're making it out to be.
    Last edited by morticianjohn; 04-15-2012 at 04:47 PM.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  5. #5
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn
    I also added an important one that you left off: -1 DC due to no capstone
    Sorcerer Bloodline of Power does not contribute anything to the Difficulty Check of any spell. This is not a Wizard-based arcane character.
    Server - Thelanis
    Diaries of a True Reincarnate (Wizard, Sorcerer, Melee, Divine, Artificer, Druid)

  6. #6
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    I had to take the garbage out of the pro's and con's list so I could read it better. I also added an important one that you left off.
    As has been pointed out, you're wrong here.

    Party leaders looking for CC will still likely reject you. If they're looking for DPS and they reject you then it's their loss (for most content).
    Not trying to be a pest, but have you ever played anything like this? Did you find you needed to group?

    If they're looking for fascinating 3x islands in VoN 6 then you likely won't fit that mold. Just don't take it personally..
    I didn't think he claimed to be able to do that in VON6 ... nor would any raid leader expect him to be able to do so with a single Bard level (it isn't the DC, it's the duration).
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  7. #7
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    Mainly my post is in response to players complaining about getting rejected for parties as in the OP. If you are playing a solo build or one that is created for leveling 1-18 then people are going to look at you sideways (and in most cases rightfully so)
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  8. #8
    Community Member hobgoblins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    Mainly my post is in response to players complaining about getting rejected for parties as in the OP. If you are playing a solo build or one that is created for leveling 1-18 then people are going to look at you sideways (and in most cases rightfully so)
    I am going to refrain from replying to your first post since pretty much everything you said is inaccurate.

    The build can solo but its not a soloing build. (although I really can't think of any
    build that can solo hard content that I wouldn't gladly take on any raid)

    This build does best in groups.
    FocusFire Argo

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobgoblins View Post
    This build does best in groups.
    I'll second this. It has become something of a joke that when our guild fails a hard TOD it's because you weren't there.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by hobgoblins View Post
    I am going to refrain from replying to your first post since pretty much everything you said is inaccurate.

    The build can solo but its not a soloing build. (although I really can't think of any
    build that can solo hard content that I wouldn't gladly take on any raid)

    This build does best in groups.
    I was wrong about the sorc capstone providing +2 CHA. However, DC's are more important on an air savant and you choose WF -2 DC vs Drow. Then you say that ONLY a water savant will out dps you. Another air savant with +2 DC will also out dps you. Fleshy vs. WF is another discussion for another time but my point is that you're grossly exaggerating the positives to the build. You list IC as a positive..... dude just got get a mask of comedy if you think it's that great. The buff lasts longer and gives a higher bonus.

    You could also say something about how you cast more spells because of a 10% movement speed. Considering that in many situations you are laying down CC BEFORE the mobs even show up you certainly aren't getting more spells by arriving sooner.

    personal pet peeve of mine is someone rating things on a scale of 1-10 and saying 0 or 11. Obviously exaggerating. Even if this toon breaks the scale for being the best kiter in the game it's not like there is a role for this. It's not like there aren't wizards out there kiting exactly the same situation and doing it just as well.

    In terms of 8% damage... put that into numbers if a sorc does 500 DPS and you're doing 8% less that is 40 DPS less than another equally geared sorc. Ask a melee if they would trade 40 DPS for 10% movement speed and 2x fascinate. You say +2 to saves but it's really only 2 fort and reflex saves only +1 to will save (another exaggeration in your OP).

    I guess you should gloss over the downsides and focus on the good sides when presenting a build, I'm not sure why I'm grilling you so hard about it but it just seems like you're misrepresenting the importance of 10% movement speed. I'm playing a DoS I pally with -10% movement speed. I'm constantly going from my striding boots to my dex boots (for AC) and even when running in stance with 0% striding I haven't found it to be all that difficult to complete and even lead in kills (granted I'm just in leveling mode and not running epics).

    Oh, congrats on completing epic servants of the overlord. Not something I will try to attempt any time soon and sorry to hijack your thread and be "that guy". Again not really sure why your OP bugs me so much. Maybe just jealousy though I've never known myself to be all that jealous and I don't know if I could play the game for 5 hours solo. Also curious why I would defend anyone who rejected you into a party considering that I typically never decline people based on class and build so long as I got the healers/whatever needed (CC, rogue, bluff, intim, or whatever is needed for that particular quest) to complete and do the optionals that I'm looking to do.

    edit:// strange builds generally come from newbies who don't know any better.... or vets who wanted to try something out. They don't always work and so I guess I can understand those party leaders who filter based on builds although I don't filter myself. I always wonder how effective these "filters" are if they filter out good players like you.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

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    I have played with Focusfire on several different occasions, his toon is very effective. Im curious how your going to incorporate the racial prestige line into this build this summer when the expansion comes out?

    I play a WF Sorc as well and im pretty sure there is not much I can do that Focus cant, dont knock the build.

    Nuketacular-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Osedox View Post
    I have played with Focusfire on several different occasions, his toon is very effective. Im curious how your going to incorporate the racial prestige line into this build this summer when the expansion comes out?

    I play a WF Sorc as well and im pretty sure there is not much I can do that Focus cant, dont knock the build.

    Nuketacular-
    A good player with good gear can make any build seem good from the outside looking in.

    I'm not saying the build is BAD but I can't think of any quest and only a very few situations where I would consider it to be optimal vs a pure sorc. The player defeated the dungeon not the build.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    The player defeated the dungeon not the build.
    I would argue that is is almost always the case anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krelar View Post
    I would argue that is is almost always the case anyways.
    In the case of this particular dungeon (and most other epic dungeons) there are many builds who can not solo it regardless of who is playing the character and how many resources are used.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  15. #15
    Community Member hobgoblins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    I was wrong about the sorc capstone providing +2 CHA. However, DC's are more important on an air savant and you choose WF -2 DC vs Drow. Then you say that ONLY a water savant will out dps you. Another air savant with +2 DC will also out dps you. Fleshy vs. WF is another discussion for another time but my point is that you're grossly exaggerating the positives to the build. You list IC as a positive..... dude just got get a mask of comedy if you think it's that great. The buff lasts longer and gives a higher bonus.

    You could also say something about how you cast more spells because of a 10% movement speed. Considering that in many situations you are laying down CC BEFORE the mobs even show up you certainly aren't getting more spells by arriving sooner.

    personal pet peeve of mine is someone rating things on a scale of 1-10 and saying 0 or 11. Obviously exaggerating. Even if this toon breaks the scale for being the best kiter in the game it's not like there is a role for this. It's not like there aren't wizards out there kiting exactly the same situation and doing it just as well.

    In terms of 8% damage... put that into numbers if a sorc does 500 DPS and you're doing 8% less that is 40 DPS less than another equally geared sorc. Ask a melee if they would trade 40 DPS for 10% movement speed and 2x fascinate. You say +2 to saves but it's really only 2 fort and reflex saves only +1 to will save (another exaggeration in your OP).

    I guess you should gloss over the downsides and focus on the good sides when presenting a build, I'm not sure why I'm grilling you so hard about it but it just seems like you're misrepresenting the importance of 10% movement speed. I'm playing a DoS I pally with -10% movement speed. I'm constantly going from my striding boots to my dex boots (for AC) and even when running in stance with 0% striding I haven't found it to be all that difficult to complete and even lead in kills (granted I'm just in leveling mode and not running epics).

    Oh, congrats on completing epic servants of the overlord. Not something I will try to attempt any time soon and sorry to hijack your thread and be "that guy". Again not really sure why your OP bugs me so much. Maybe just jealousy though I've never known myself to be all that jealous and I don't know if I could play the game for 5 hours solo. Also curious why I would defend anyone who rejected you into a party considering that I typically never decline people based on class and build so long as I got the healers/whatever needed (CC, rogue, bluff, intim, or whatever is needed for that particular quest) to complete and do the optionals that I'm looking to do.

    edit:// strange builds generally come from newbies who don't know any better.... or vets who wanted to try something out. They don't always work and so I guess I can understand those party leaders who filter based on builds although I don't filter myself. I always wonder how effective these "filters" are if they filter out good players like you.
    The comparisons were meant to be vs other WF sorcs. The post was not meant to compare races,
    so I guess it should have been stated in the OP.

    Other pure WF Air sorcs would have around the same dps in practice assuming equal skill imho.
    Pure gets %8 more damage. The electrician gets better combat placement via speed increase and Lightning Motes for bosses and for spell point sensitive situations.

    As far as mentioning IC the post stated in descending order of magnitude. I was just trying to be thorough.
    All the stuff after +2 saves ranges from minor to ethereal. Wow for some reason I didn't know about
    the existence of the mask of tragedy. Ya learn something new every day.

    The speed increase is always at least 10%. When sprint boost in on its 1.1x1.35=1.485? or a
    48.5% speed increase.

    Theoretically speaking:
    Assuming we are in an all out be a **** zergfest (not recommended , just showing uses of speed)and
    assuming the next encounter is say 10 seconds away for you and you are normal hasted
    speed and we each use one wind step. I arrive 3.25 seconds before you. So that is about
    3 spells before you get in range. The first spell might be prismatic spray targeting the farthest
    mob followed up by energy drain and FOD or two damage spells.
    If you are an all out glass cannon air savant there is no way for you to make up the damage
    lead before the mobs are all dead. When all the mobs are dead hit
    sprint boost and it starts all over again. This is not even taking into account toons that don't
    have speed enhancements or that whatever damage the mobs do will increase the
    damage lead through guard procs or in full party situations where the late arriving toons
    get only 1/6th damage allocation for the remainder of the encounter.
    So in dungeon crawls the speed increase could increase damage greatly as one example.
    NOTE, not recommending doing this. If you enter a quest that you are not just dashing through
    (ie Korthos) you should stay with the team and play as a team. Maybe one day Turbine will
    give us more content where people who don't play as a team wipe.

    In static situation boss fights the build uses the electric motes scroll. The 15% damage
    vulnerability more than makes up for the lack of a cap stone. Better yet if there are other
    electric damage producing toons.

    I'll make corrections to the OP with regard to the 1 will save error and clarify race is not being
    discussed.

    Another thing toons like this could do that others would have a harder time doing would be this:

    Step 1) Use Rage just before you join a group that is trying to fill in abbot. Try to pick a good
    group that has failed several times to get the proper atmosphere. Say what you need
    to get into the group. Don't forget your mad stone boots clicky. Get a Friend to cast PEI on you.
    This should get you up to about 750 HP.
    Step 2) Have an Arti friend that has a 3+ monk splash build join at same time spamming PEI on
    you till he/she is no lower than around 130 hp so as not to garner too much suspicion.
    Make sure you both enter the instance promptly before they kick you.

    Remember they already think you are idiots for building such poorly thought out builds so they will
    be susceptible to the possibility of witnessing a rare profoundly gimped duo occurrence.

    Step 3)
    When entering try to have some weapons that look like a LIT 2 repeater and Lit 2 Rapiers
    or the like, if you have Dual Epic Darkstorm helms take your bonus points.
    When they ask a question about your builds, tell them you work as a team
    the arti casts lightning motes and Static Charge and you cast weaken elemental resistance.
    You guys operate as an Electric Strike and Nuke squad.

    You should hurry as your short term buffs will be wearing off. Hopefully you filled the last two spots so
    you can with high spirits start the encounter yelling "COME ON LIGHTNING STRIKE!!!"
    FocusFire Argo

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    Quote Originally Posted by hobgoblins View Post

    Another thing toons like this could do that others would have a harder time doing would be this:

    Step 1) Use Rage just before you join a group that is trying to fill in abbot. Try to pick a good
    group that has failed several times to get the proper atmosphere. Say what you need
    to get into the group. Don't forget your mad stone boots clicky. Get a Friend to cast PEI on you.
    This should get you up to about 750 HP.
    Step 2) Have an Arti friend that has a 3+ monk splash build join at same time spamming PEI on
    you till he/she is no lower than around 130 hp so as not to garner too much suspicion.
    Make sure you both enter the instance promptly before they kick you.

    Remember they already think you are idiots for building such poorly thought out builds so they will
    be susceptible to the possibility of witnessing a rare profoundly gimped duo occurrence.

    Step 3)
    When entering try to have some weapons that look like a LIT 2 repeater and Lit 2 Rapiers
    or the like, if you have Dual Epic Darkstorm helms take your bonus points.
    When they ask a question about your builds, tell them you work as a team
    the arti casts lightning motes and Static Charge and you cast weaken elemental resistance.
    You guys operate as an Electric Strike and Nuke squad.

    You should hurry as your short term buffs will be wearing off. Hopefully you filled the last two spots so
    you can with high spirits start the encounter yelling "COME ON LIGHTNING STRIKE!!!"
    With your positive attitude and humor you have killed the troll that was haunting me.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  17. #17
    Community Member hobgoblins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    If you read my post you would see I was commenting on the response to the Barbarian/Bard splash and added my observations on aspects of it.
    The Barbarian splash was interesting, I just didn't see the point of the bard level.
    Your response still doesn't convince me that bard is any better of a choice vs 19 Sorc or droppping to 18 with a level of Rogue or Artificer.

    The 20% capstone is the OP's topic

    The Enhancement states 20% on spells that can be empowered.
    I don't know if 8% is the calculated difference or someones guess.
    It makes sense it cacluates on the base or on the empowered portion of damage and not on the meta's since I did not see a 20% increase in damage when I capped my WF sorc.
    It does appear to need some testing to compare damage from capped toon with capstone enhancement and capped toon without capstone enhancement.
    I would like to see a Dev comment showing how the calculation is made and have this clarified on the Enhancement desription.
    Irregardless it is still a cheap enhancement to add more damage for 2AP.




    Sorc can take those two feats if they really want to.
    A level of Barbarian gives Shield proficiency.
    What does Bard add to this.



    Rogue gives 24 more and arty only gives 8 more over Sorc but offers its own perks.
    Still dont see what Bard offers to make it worth dropping a Sorc level. vs Rogue or Arty



    Sorc's kill stuff, whats the point of fascinate..
    Dance some mobs while you shrine?.. Otto's, Dancing Ball, Charm will do that or DDoor and go to a cleared shrine.
    Separate classes do give added SP bonus, so I will give you this one.
    Still on a 3000SP pool it is trivial.



    WF sorc should have no issue getting to 39 and more with standard build Gear.
    My WF Sorc for example.

    12 Skill Points
    14 from Charisma unbuffed 38 ( No +4 Tome or Litany or Cha 7 item)
    2 Slotted Good Luck
    4 GH
    5 Greensteel Concordant Opposition Spell point item (could get 6pts , but not with con-op)
    3 Bunny Hat Skin (Competence Bonus)

    Theres 40 UMD with no gear swapping before any of the following..

    Untyped - stacking buffs from Ship, Yugo or store pots. ( I dont bother counting House D pots)
    Competence other sources of competence bonus such as Cannith crafted Persuasion item, cartouche, Regular Treasure Hunter Spyglass
    Profane Bonus - Many of us now have the Spider Mask skin(1)
    Enhancement Bonus - Epic Treasure Hunter Spyglass(3) or Big Top(1)/Epic Big Top(3)
    Skill Boost - Human/Rogue/Artificer/Helf

    Lots more available combinations for UMD see.. http://ddowiki.com/page/UMD




    Lightning Motes looks intersting will have to try that one.

    UMD 39,43 are breakpoints for no-fail scrolls except Arty Scrolls. Resurection/Greater Restoration at 43 is still pretty low fail rate with 40 UMD. Scrolls are still subject to interruption failure even with perfect UMD, so everyone should have at least 1 crafted GS tier2 pos for raise dead clickies for no fail raise if you ever get to the point where you are last man standing on the brink of failure. It is a low cost item that resets every shrine.

    Splashing a level of Artificer would be more useful in my mind if you want to cast lots of Arty scrolls. A Sorc can still cast most of these with a low fail rate.



    I dont intend to mean Flavour build in a negative way.
    I see any build that splashes a couple of levels to take advantage of some unique aspect of the splash class as a flavour build.
    You havent really changed the core of the build(you are still a nuker) just enhanced aspects of it.

    I am just not sold on Bard as being a worthwile splash vs losing 1 Level of Sorc or taking a level of Rogue or Arty.
    "Sorc can take those two feats if they really want to."
    A pure WF sorc with a wizard past life doesn't have the room to take both shield prof and mastery.
    Max
    Emp
    Heighten
    Evocation Focus
    Wizard Past Life Feat
    Toughness

    Seem like mandatory feat choices, which only leaves one feat left.



    "Sorc's kill stuff, whats the point of fascinate.. "
    The weakest part of this build is CC, fascinate is one of the best CC effects in the game.
    If the content of the game were harder you would see fascinate used much more.
    When soloing its very handy since you don't have anyone breaking your charm.

    Some nice uses not mentioned:

    Solo Epic a small problem, sing at elemental rock and sing at final fight.
    Solo Epic Soto, Final fight sing kill, sing kill, sing kill, sing kill, D Door and let anthem
    regen your songs.
    3rd base Epic Von
    Solo Epic Big Top Final fight both phases. Gives you time of Fod her minions.
    When you are trapped or don't know what to do its a nice panic button, albeit a bit slow.

    I am sure there are many other good uses for it, its one of those effects that never occur to you
    to use when in the heat of battle. If you think about hard encounters before hand though
    you will find the fascinate is part of many perfect prepared sequences from a theory standpoint.
    If you always run with groups then your might find fascinate to have far less value.




    As far as getting to 39, some small comments.

    11 skill points is all you can put into a cross class skill i think.
    Bunny hat is interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought it only applied to wands.
    (That's like a fracking free feat!)

    So that makes the total max of 42 with perfect gear, yugo and ship buffs I believe. (slotting for umd is a sacrifice i am not willing to make in combat.)
    Still the main point of having a high umd is lightning motes(umd 48) and Resurrection (umd 44). (75% and 95% chance of working.)

    I agree raise dead is nice but resurrection is much better in hard content.
    If its not 100% on either resurrection or lightning motes, then much of the
    value is lost. Also remember in combat you often don't have full enter the quest
    umd lvl. While the bunny hat makes it close I still feel you need more umd than a
    pure wf sorc can achieve if you want to use RES and LM scrolls effectively.

    As far as comparisons on what class to take as the 20th of a 18sorc/1 barb build
    I agree there are some hard choices.

    You mentioned Rogue. I think that's right out.

    Sorc seems behind bard but arguable.

    Less UMD (no lightning motes)
    Less spell points
    less skill points
    no fascinate
    lower saves -2 will and reflex
    +1 spell pen
    Longer duration on buffs
    A few seldom used spells would see in increase is power. (very minor)
    one lvl 8 spell i think (no biggie)
    Your choice of PWK or WOB. (the biggest reason to take the 19th sorc.)

    Lets say the lower saves cancels out everything else except for the 9th lvl spell.

    That leaves More sp,fascinate,skill points,higher umd(res/lm/ete) vs PWK/WOB
    PWK/WOB is nice but Lightning motes is a core element of the build.
    Its what makes this hybrid out dps pure lightning sorcs and come closer to ice.



    The real choice is between Arti and Bard.

    Bard gets:
    Few more skill points (8 )
    Fascinate
    Around 120 more spell points
    Focusing chant
    +2 reflex saves

    Arti gets:
    +1 Scroll Mastery (for better duration/power on the numerous scrolls this build uses, its a significant effect)
    Tiny Dog (for opening doors and the like)

    I guess arti vs bard is close to a toss up. I chose bard, since you don't like fascinate arti would
    get your nod.
    Last edited by hobgoblins; 04-17-2012 at 07:46 PM.
    FocusFire Argo

  18. #18
    Community Member hobgoblins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syllph View Post
    Does that completion time say 284 min? As in almost 5 hours?

    You're way more patient than I am.
    I made some dinner and took some calls. (one of the reasons I solo stuff)
    It would have taken something like 3 hours anyway though.
    FocusFire Argo

  19. #19
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    I discovered this thread through a link by hob from another thread.....Initially I wanted to point out that IC is pointless, and does have stacking issues with something as simple as heroism potions...but then I actually read the whole thread

    Flavor build = 1 of 2 things

    #1 role playing...fun...different perspective on the game...TR xp running...static groups....old school PnP nostalgia (gish)

    #2 Out-of-the-box builds everyone calls "flavor" this because they don't understand the finer points and the type of playstyle it allows as being superior to what most would call "optimal" at first glance.

    This falls into the #2 category. I stared at it for quite some time, and it did take some time to wrap my brain around the mentality...but alas..you have a believer

    It's strange....It's different...It's outside-the-box thinking...It's flavorish (in a good way)....and most importantly, I didn't think of it!

    /small rant on
    Kudos to you for posting this on the forums where you had to have known you would be forced to vehemently defend it's viability, much less it's supremecay. In the 2 years that I've been around, the forums have been sliding into a place where unique ideas are supressed based on mathematical statistics (and I love math) and status quo uber-leetism. I thank you for providing an option for something completely out of the ordinary that you take the time to defend so well.
    /small rant off

    great build...thanks for the read
    ShadowFlash
    All the math your brain can handle concerning Divine Punishment
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344769

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    A good player with good gear can make any build seem good from the outside looking in.

    I'm not saying the build is BAD but I can't think of any quest and only a very few situations where I would consider it to be optimal vs a pure sorc. The player defeated the dungeon not the build.
    While this is true, and you have no argument from me, the inverse can also be true. Gear can make what would normally be a "bad build" superior to a "good build."
    As far as "optimal over a pure sorc" your answer is anywhere there is no arti in party.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    /small rant on
    Kudos to you for posting this on the forums where you had to have known you would be forced to vehemently defend it's viability, much less it's supremecay. In the 2 years that I've been around, the forums have been sliding into a place where unique ideas are supressed based on mathematical statistics (and I love math) and status quo uber-leetism. I thank you for providing an option for something completely out of the ordinary that you take the time to defend so well.
    /small rant off

    great build...thanks for the read
    ShadowFlash
    Actually, if you do the math this build is superior DPS to pure WF air savant as long as motes is in use and there is no arti in party to stomp your spell. Dang those statistics and math figures.







    Now, as the OP said a pure water sorc can still out DPS so if DPS is your only standard for a sorc, yes, it is inferior. However, DPS is not my only standard for a sorc.................

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