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  1. #1
    Community Member Wolfen719's Avatar
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    Default 2 levels of rogue? does it allow you to find/disable traps while leveling on elite?

    I'm trying to create some leveling builds to do the completionist.

    What i'm wondering is, is it worth adding 2 levels of rogue to get find/disarm traps? Would 2 levels of rogue be enough to reliably find/disable traps on elite all the way through to level 20?

    I'm thinking of something along the lines of 12/6/2 builds where 12 is the current life i'm working on, 6 would be the secondary helpfull class (healer for non-healer current life, dps or tank class for healer current life) and the 2 would be rogue. This is just a generalisation, and the specific builds could vary to 10/8/2 or 10/6/4 or whatever.

    For instance, for my next life, which is going to be a Barb, i'm planning on going 14/6 Barb/Wiz and going warforged. That would give me some good solo healing, but then I thought about traps, so would making the build 12/6/2 Barb/Wiz/Rogue allow me to reliably find/disarm traps on elite while I level? I tend to solo A LOT (though not exclusively...sometimes I see groups in LFM for what I'm looking for at the time, and sometimes I can get a guild group).

    I'm not so much looking for a detailed breakdown of a Barb/Wiz/Rogue build (though if you have one I'll look at it) but more looking to know if the 2 levels of rogue for find/disable traps is enough to reliably find and disable traps on all builds? Or would you need more rogue levels?

  2. #2
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    For traps rogue levels don't matter (beyond the first to unlock the skills) the important thing is having enough skill points to keep search and disable device maxed and the best search/disable gear available at your level. Intelligence helps to so a +int item could also be useful.
    Last edited by Krelar; 03-03-2012 at 10:24 AM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfen719 View Post
    looking to know if the 2 levels of rogue for find/disable traps is enough to reliably find and disable traps on all builds?
    One level of rogue is enough if your other classes either get lots of skill points, or you start with a decent INT (for skill points).

    To be good at disabling traps as a new player, you really need to max out Spot, Search, and Disable... To Open Locks, you get away with just a few ranks and a good Open Lock item.

    A ranger/rogue works very well, because rangers get spot and search as class skills, same as a rogue... Wizard/Rogue also works well since a wizard will usually start with a high INT (which means lots of skill points). Being human helps, since they get an extra skill point every level.

    Something like fighter/rogue is much harder, since fighters get very few skill points and don't have any of the "trap" skills as class skills (when you train as a fighter in Search, you have to spend TWO skill points for every one rank you get)

    By the way, a Barbarian/Wizard isn't a very good idea, since you can't cast spells when raging. And 6 levels of a class just for healing doesn't work very well at the high levels.

    Triple-classed characters are hard to build correctly... Usually better to stick with pure class or double-classed characters at first.

    But yeah, it's possible to just have 1 level of rogue and be decent at traps, depending on your other classes.
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  4. #4
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    One level of rogue is fine if used with a class it synergises with (Wizard or Ranger, for example), and two levels help somewhat in giving evasion too.

  5. #5
    Community Member Crann's Avatar
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    As stated above, one level of Rogue is fine with synergystic classes.

    Whether or not you get enough out of having trap skills if you are just planning to run to 20 and start over is another question.

    Remember as a caster, or divine, splashing is going to give you your key spells a level later.

    Even on Elite, there are few quests you are going to run...or grind, that absolutely require the traps be handled.

    The extra xp is nice from disabling the traps, but blasting through the quest quickly is also nice for the 1E9N1H farms.

    Also keep in mind that deeply splashing caster is generally a bad idea, especially if you are just looking at 20 and TR, and not building a niche build.

  6. #6
    Community Member Teharahma's Avatar
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    For barbarian level I would go 9Barb9Wiz2Rog
    Traps, evasion, 2 DoT's, easy reconstruct scrolls. And Haste, Rage, Displacement. Picking up Archmage2 (for a total of 175 extra spell points.).

    1 Rogue
    2-7 Wizard (Archmage)
    8 Barbarian (Sprint boost)
    9-11 Wizard
    12 Rogue
    13-20 Barbarian

    Maybe something like this for starting stats; (assuming 36p)

    18 Str (16p)
    08 Dex (0p)
    18 Con (10p)
    16 Int (10p)
    06 Wis (0p)
    06 Cha (0p)
    Last edited by Teharahma; 03-04-2012 at 04:18 PM.
    Sweep Pick or Die!
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    But in terms of actual quest ideas, perhaps something where Halflings ride around on Warforged in battle-backpacks with shoulder-mounted repeating crossbows.

  7. #7
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfen719 View Post
    I'm trying to create some leveling builds to do the completionist.

    What i'm wondering is, is it worth adding 2 levels of rogue to get find/disarm traps? Would 2 levels of rogue be enough to reliably find/disable traps on elite all the way through to level 20?

    I'm thinking of something along the lines of 12/6/2 builds where 12 is the current life i'm working on, 6 would be the secondary helpfull class (healer for non-healer current life, dps or tank class for healer current life) and the 2 would be rogue. This is just a generalisation, and the specific builds could vary to 10/8/2 or 10/6/4 or whatever.

    For instance, for my next life, which is going to be a Barb, i'm planning on going 14/6 Barb/Wiz and going warforged. That would give me some good solo healing, but then I thought about traps, so would making the build 12/6/2 Barb/Wiz/Rogue allow me to reliably find/disarm traps on elite while I level? I tend to solo A LOT (though not exclusively...sometimes I see groups in LFM for what I'm looking for at the time, and sometimes I can get a guild group).

    I'm not so much looking for a detailed breakdown of a Barb/Wiz/Rogue build (though if you have one I'll look at it) but more looking to know if the 2 levels of rogue for find/disable traps is enough to reliably find and disable traps on all builds? Or would you need more rogue levels?
    If you have gear and +5 tools, any trap in the game only requires 1 level of rogue. Furthermore, the second level provides limited benefit - without a rather high reflex save, you're not going to save against traps on elite (evasion is still nice, but not as nice as it could be).
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  8. #8
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teharahma View Post
    For barbarian level I would go 9Barb9Wiz2Rog
    Traps, evasion, 2 DoT's, easy reconstruct scrolls. And Haste, Rage, Displacement. Picking up Archmage2 (for a total of 175 extra spell points.).

    1 Rogue
    2-7 Wizard (Archmage)
    8 Barbarian (Sprint boost)
    9-11 Wizard
    12 Rogue
    13-20 Barbarian

    Maybe something like this for starting stats; (assuming 36p)

    18 Str (16p)
    08 Dex (0p)
    18 Con (10p)
    16 Int (10p)
    06 Wis (0p)
    06 Cha (0p)
    oO What's the point if being a barbarian if you can't rage?

    If you want a self healing barbarian then go human or halfelf (with monk dilettante) and max out healing amp (with enhancements and gear like fleshmakers brigadine, leviks bracers and later dragontouched). Then you can self heal with pots (cure serious or SF) and vampiric weapons.

    Pretty much no over option for a self healing barbarian that doesn't rely on outside support. 12/6/2 is a decent split for this with ranger and artificer to pick up trap skills, UMD (for out of combat buffing/healing) and Manyshot (bit of burst ranged damage).
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  9. #9
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    oO What's the point if being a barbarian if you can't rage?

    If you want a self healing barbarian then go human or halfelf (with monk dilettante) and max out healing amp (with enhancements and gear like fleshmakers brigadine, leviks bracers and later dragontouched). Then you can self heal with pots (cure serious or SF) and vampiric weapons.

    Pretty much no over option for a self healing barbarian that doesn't rely on outside support. 12/6/2 is a decent split for this with ranger and artificer to pick up trap skills, UMD (for out of combat buffing/healing) and Manyshot (bit of burst ranged damage).
    He wants barbarian for past lives, he doesn't actually want to play a barbarian, to my understanding.
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  10. #10
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    He wants barbarian for past lives, he doesn't actually want to play a barbarian, to my understanding.
    I'm not sure what else a 14 barbarian / 6 wizard would do other than be a barbarian with some self buffing/healing even if the concept is flawed.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Teharahma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    oO What's the point if being a barbarian if you can't rage?

    If you want a self healing barbarian then go human or halfelf (with monk dilettante) and max out healing amp (with enhancements and gear like fleshmakers brigadine, leviks bracers and later dragontouched). Then you can self heal with pots (cure serious or SF) and vampiric weapons.

    Pretty much no over option for a self healing barbarian that doesn't rely on outside support. 12/6/2 is a decent split for this with ranger and artificer to pick up trap skills, UMD (for out of combat buffing/healing) and Manyshot (bit of burst ranged damage).
    We're you even paying attention to the thread ?
    He wants a barbarian past-life..
    Sweep Pick or Die!
    Quote Originally Posted by JollySwagMan View Post
    But in terms of actual quest ideas, perhaps something where Halflings ride around on Warforged in battle-backpacks with shoulder-mounted repeating crossbows.

  12. #12
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teharahma View Post
    We're you even paying attention to the thread ?
    He wants a barbarian past-life..
    Weren't you paying attention to the thread ?
    I just answered that very query with my opinion on the subject:

    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I'm not sure what else a 14 barbarian / 6 wizard would do other than be a barbarian with some self buffing/healing even if the concept is flawed.
    Now, you might be right, but evidence would suggest that the OP wants a self sufficient barbarian rather than a character that plays nothing like a barbarian but nets the barbarian PL.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Teharahma's Avatar
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    He didn't specify, spose we're both right. :')
    Sweep Pick or Die!
    Quote Originally Posted by JollySwagMan View Post
    But in terms of actual quest ideas, perhaps something where Halflings ride around on Warforged in battle-backpacks with shoulder-mounted repeating crossbows.

  14. #14
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teharahma View Post
    He didn't specify, spose we're both right. :')
    Actually, the first line of his post makes it quite clear what he's trying to do: "I'm trying to create some leveling builds to do the completionist."
    Eternal Infinity: Wruntjunior ~ DI Sorc // Youngwrunt ~ Survivalist Paladin // Wruntarrow ~ Monkcher // Wruntsonmonk ~ Wis-Based Monk

  15. #15
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Trapping is mostly about equipment. It's toughest about level 6 or so, the traps in the F2P House K quests are close to the highest DC's for what you would likely be able to get at that level. Another fairly tough set of traps are in VoN5, especially if you get a death penalty (the save DC's are ridiculously high).

    As long as you have enough skill points to max out Search and Disable Device, the rest can be made up with buffs and equipment.

    The highest Search and Disable items you can get for your level. Cannith Crafted ones, maybe even slotted with a Mark of House Cannith to lower the level, are best.
    Fox's Cunning Potion, then a +6 INT item when you get high enough.
    Heroism Potion, then Greater Heroism (caster or Planar Gird).
    Recitation buff, or a Luck item. Voice of the Master is +1 luck, and with high enough Cannith levels, you can craft a +2 luck item, or if you have a Head of Good Fortune.
    Only use +5 tools.
    Rogue Skill Boost.
    Approaching cap, you can use Tinker's Goggles or Ventilated Bracers to gain a stacking bonus to Disable Device.

    For a pure levelling build, there is absolutely no problem with what you are doing, and having a 1-2 Rogue splash is essentially 10-15% more EXP in a lot of quests, for only a marginal increase in time.

  16. #16
    Community Member masterzzan's Avatar
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    if ur going melee and wiz warforge split and don't mind not having evesion. think of 2 levels of arti'. then u get rune arm. more sp. and some spells to use too.
    i myself going 2 arti\ 18 fighter for a stalwart build with over 1k hp at level 20.
    ^^^^^^^^
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  17. #17
    Community Member Feralthyrtiaq's Avatar
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    Default For Barb PL I'm Currently Playing

    2Rogue/6Ranger(Tempest)/7of12 Barb Helf with Arti Dilletante

    With different level tiers of festival, challenge, GS and Cannith Crafted gear to support Spot, Search, Disable, Locks and UMD

    Started with 11 Int and Fighter Dille, Used +2 Int tome at lvl 7 and swapped to Arti Dille

    The slight benefit from the Arti Dille is NOT offset by the ABSURD UMD of Arti Scrolls, the ABSURD Cost of Low Level Arti Scrolls and the EVEN MORE ABSURD Improved Dilletante Enh line progression of Level 2 Arti, Level 3 Arti, Level 4 Arti where EVERY other Classes Improved Dilletante Enh line progresses at Level 4, Level 7, Level 10 with max AP spent. BUT too lazy to change (could swap for Skill Focus: UMD) and not really a game breaker.

    But the build is fun, tough, fast and survivable

  18. #18
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Definately, maybe!

    "One" leve of Rogue give you the ability to put skill points into Trap skills. Like Disable Device, and Open Locks, that only Rogues and Artificers can put points into.

    It also gives you the ability to pux max ranks in those (and most other) skills.

    For example, a Rog20 and a Rog1/Clr19 could both possible have a DD skill of 23 ranks.

    ....in theory.

    But Clerics only get 2 skill points per lvl. And any points put into DD as you are leveling up as a Cleric will be half ranks per skill point.

    So a Cleric/Rog with an Int of 10 would be able to put two skill points, every cleric lvl, into DD but only get one rank per lvl.
    And while this would still allow him to have a DD of 23 at lvl 20.....

    Where is he going to get the skill points for his Search skill!
    ...he just used all of his skill points trying to keep his DD maxed. He has none left for Search!

    Or anything else.



    ... so it depends.
    "if" you can figure out a build that will give you enough skill points every level to keep your trap skills up....
    then "YES".
    You can be (just about) as good at traps as a pure Rogue.




    There are two multi-classed combos that work well with just a couple Rog lvls.
    Rgr/Rogs and Wiz/Rogs.

    This is because most Rog skills are also Rgr skills, and Rgrs get 6 skil points per lvl.

    And in the case of Wizards, they (should) always max Int anyway, so they have more skill points per lvl to keep their trap skill sup too. (although personally, I find Wiz/Rogs a little lacking in skill points, but if they are careful, they can work out just fine.)
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    To be good at disabling traps as a new player, you really need to max out Spot, Search, and Disable... To Open Locks, you get away with just a few ranks and a good Open Lock item.
    You don't need to max spot or even put a single skill point in it to be a good trapper.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    You don't need to max spot or even put a single skill point in it to be a good trapper.
    You do if you're a new player, or don't use a map that shows you where all the traps are.
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