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  1. #1
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Default Bard Spellslinger -> a beginning

    So with Level 7 vet status I am thinking of making up my first bard.

    How does this look for a "first step" into the bard? The idea here is that he's going to have decent Enchant DC, strong Fascinate and attacks from the rear / flank for some extra "sneak attack" damage. I am not too sure if he's going to stay pure bard or head off with a splash but right now I am thinking Pure.

    Am I making any mistakes thus far?


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 7 True Neutral Halfling Male
    (7 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 95
    Spell Points: 420 
    BAB: 5\5\10
    Fortitude: 5
    Reflex: 9
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 7)
    Strength             10                    10
    Dexterity            16                    16
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 7)
    Balance               7                    13
    Bluff                 4                     6
    Concentration         2                     6
    Diplomacy             4                     6
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                8                    15
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  3                     7
    Intimidate            4                     5
    Jump                  3                    10
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         3                     5
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               8                    15
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                    -1
    Spot                 -1                    -1
    Swim                  0                     0
    Tumble                4                     4
    Use Magic Device      8                    17
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
    Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


  2. #2
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    you are trying to do too much.

    you should either:

    - dump charisma (to somewhere around 11-12), ignore DC-based spells, and focus entirely on melee (one of the metamagic feats that will boost your healing would be a better choice to qualify for spellsinger) by putting more into your strength (and just keep enough dex for TWF if that's your goal. if it isn't your goal, dump dex as well, put more into con). you'll probably be fairly independent, but will provide a lot of strength to a group as well. you *may* be able to get more out of splashing than you would lose; common choices will be 2 levels of rogue for evasion, 2 levels of fighter for feats, 2 levels of barbarian for faster speed and haste boost, or some mixture thereof. we don't know what the new enhancement system will be like, and it may not require 18 levels of bard to get a third tier of a bard prestige enhancement, so you may or may not be giving up something you would value highly if you splash more than 2 levels. apart from your fascinate song and mass suggestion, your only CC options will be either debuffs for others to CC the target, or stuff that has no save (ie otto's irresistible dance). regardless of whether your long term goal is THF or TWF, at low levels i recommend you use two-handed weapons. to-hit won't be abysmal, but every bit helps.

    OR

    - dump dex, consider either putting a bit more into strength (for carrying and to avoid helplessness) or con (for hit points... duh!), and focus entirely on buffing and casting. you can carry around a two-handed weapon for hitting things, but don't expect a miracle. ditch the halfling sneak attack stuff, or at the very least only keep it around for a few more levels. your focus should be healing and buffing, with a bit of CC (consider throwing the occasional daze monster, resistible dance, suggestion, or sound burst). healing can be mostly handled with items at this point. you may wish to consider halfling hero companion to fill out your enhancements. expect to need to group a lot to get anything done. you should absolutely not consider splashing even a tiny bit. there is no splash that will add enough to compensate for how much you will cripple yourself in a spell-based CC role by not having your capstone. you will lack greatly in melee capabilities, but you *can* eventually be an effective CC build. expect some frustration as you work to get the gear together. to help compensate for your melee, it is recommended that you carry weapons that don't require you to deal a lot of damage to be useful; destruction/improved destruction, cursespewing/improved cursespewing, paralysing/improved paralysing, potentially even deception/improved deception, etc. alternately, you could focus on getting yourself an elyd edge (uses cha for attack), especially an epic one, or the sword "terror" which will kill trash no matter how poor your damage is (though some trash will be immune, and for raid bosses you will still want your "support" weapons). there are a few other cha-based weapon options, but not an awful lot and most aren't a great choice for bards.

    in either case: ditch weapon finesse. bards are super feat-starved, you don't have room for weapon finesse. there's tons of better options. for a spellsinger, a metamagic feat would be a common choice if you want casting. if you want melee, power attack would be a fairly standard choice, although you may not have much of a use for it yet. two-weapon fighting feats are also common (two-handed feats are quite rare). ditch inspire bravery as well; you don't need bonuses vs fear, there's tons of them available in the game, and that's not even counting the fact you can grant immunity once you get greater heroism. consider using summons (from scrolls if you're rich, from spells if you're not) to support your abilities.

    but seriously, you're trying to do too much. there probably is some ridiculous triple-completionist bard build that requires ridiculous gear in every single slot plus carrying dozens of different scrolls and clickies and gear swaps for every occasion that can be fairly effective in both melee *and* DC-based spellcasting. but on a first life? i *very* strongly recommend that you scale back your expectations for your bard. you're going to need a lot of gear, and probably a few past lives, before you can even do a halfway-decent job in both areas.

  3. #3
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    I see what you are saying for sure about the feats.

    What about a Pew-Pew build then? I imagine it's the same problem that in order to get good dps from it you got too many feats.

    I was thinking that he would mainly do CC. DPS is a secondary thought for sure.

    The hope was when soloing he holds / facinates and then beats down (with a pet). In a group his main role would be CC with Heals or emergency DPS.

    I mainly went DEX and finesse to try and take advantage of the halfling Dex bonus but I could just leave it be and dump into STR. Let me go back to the drawing board and see where I endup. I think I remember now why I have been avoiding Bard... LOL.


  4. #4
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiliconScout View Post
    I see what you are saying for sure about the feats.

    What about a Pew-Pew build then? I imagine it's the same problem that in order to get good dps from it you got too many feats.

    I was thinking that he would mainly do CC. DPS is a secondary thought for sure.

    The hope was when soloing he holds / facinates and then beats down (with a pet). In a group his main role would be CC with Heals or emergency DPS.

    I mainly went DEX and finesse to try and take advantage of the halfling Dex bonus but I could just leave it be and dump into STR. Let me go back to the drawing board and see where I endup. I think I remember now why I have been avoiding Bard... LOL.
    An Bard/Arty is an interesting "Pew-Pew" build...especially for a Halfling...Dex/Int based...Con/Cha Secondary...Str/Wis Dumped...when I get home I can look into making an actual build if you like.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 03-03-2012 at 10:21 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  5. #5
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    How about this. I have a carnifex for him already. For now I went with upping my DC's Figure if I can hold it I can kill it pretty quick even with the str I have. I should have it it boosted to at least a 16 STR maybe 18 @ level 7.

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 7 True Neutral Halfling Male
    (7 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 102
    Spell Points: 420 
    BAB: 5\5\10
    Fortitude: 6
    Reflex: 6
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 7)
    Strength             12                    12
    Dexterity            10                    10
    Constitution         16                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             18                    20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 7)
    Balance               4                    10
    Bluff                 4                     6
    Concentration         3                     7
    Diplomacy             4                     6
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                8                    15
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  0                     4
    Intimidate            4                     5
    Jump                  4                    11
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         0                     2
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               8                    15
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                    -1
    Spot                 -1                    -1
    Swim                  1                     1
    Tumble                1                     1
    Use Magic Device      8                    17
    
    Level 1 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Spell (1): Sleep
    
    
    Level 2 (Bard)
    Spell (1): Hypnotism
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Enchantment
    Spell (1): Focusing Chant
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Spell (2): Blur
    Spell (2): Soundburst
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Spell (1): Charm Person
    Spell (2): Invisibility
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Spell (2): Hold Person
    Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
    Spell (3): Haste
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
    Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


  6. #6
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    if you're going for DCs, you need to be going all-in.

    from my own experience as a spellsinger bard that started with 14 strength, you'll be able to *hit* most things (though of course, you'll have a hard time with a few enemies that have crazy AC), you just won't deal a ton of damage.

    put everything into charisma that you can, if you're going for DCs. there's a tiny bit of room for playing around on wizards once they're fully geared, but for a bard... you need every last bit you can get going to making your spells work. you start with a minor disadvantage, and it gets bigger and bigger and bigger as you gain levels, and only finally if you get the capstone does it close somewhat at level 20 (and even then, the type of spells you get will limit you).

    if you're looking for good choices to melee with as you level up, the quarterstaff out of the 2 stormreach chains is pretty handy (petrify can pay off sometimes, but mostly the negative levels are what you're looking for) once you get there. before that, i'd say consider the elyd edge, plus maybe a shield (if you can craft, a small mithral shield will give you some very nice options). and of course, carnifex is a good option too.

    at level 18, you get another very nice option with the greatsword terror from mindsunder.

    like i said, try and focus on getting weapons that are not all about physical damage. if you're really stuck, you can try something like a wounding of puncturing falchion; the con damage reduces enemy hit points, and eventually makes things helpless, which will boost your DPS even further, plus it boosts everyone else's DPS.

    for bosses, your best bet is (unfortunately) to carry around a golf bag of weapons. you may also get some mileage out of charming other mobs to fight the boss for you.

    edit: just noticed you still have inspired bravery in your enhancement lists. i still advise you to lose it, as it simply isn't very valuable.
    Last edited by Jaid314; 03-03-2012 at 01:25 PM.

  7. #7
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    OK so here's the Pew-Pew build I came up with personally I would just go pure Arty but this one is a pretty cool mix.

    "Buffmaster 3000"

    Halfling Bard12/Arty8 SS2/BE1(True Neutral)

    Dex 18 (To-hit/Reflex Save)
    Con 14 (HP)
    Int 16 (Damage/Skill Points)
    Cha 14

    Lvl ups in either Dex or Int whichever you prefer



    Feats (Not in order - Includes Bonus Arty Feats)

    PBS,PS,IPS, IC:Ranged,Rapid Shot, Toughness, Augment Summoning, Extend, SF:UMD



    Skills: Whatever you want (Recommend Arty @ Lvl 1 than Bard @ 2 for ease adding trap skills & perform)

    UMD Breakdown: 7(Stat) + 4 (SS2) + 23 (Trained) + 3 (SF:UMD) +2(Arty Knowledge)= 39 Ideal UMD without a single UMD item.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 03-06-2012 at 11:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #8
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    Human.
    Put everything on Cha and Con.
    Start with INT 10 or 12 for social skills / balance.

    feats: quicken, spell penetration, spell focus enchantment, g spell focus enchantment, heighten, extend, Maximize, Empower Healing.

    Enhancements: scroll mastery III, max song damage, max healing line.
    You'll end with a 450HP - 40dc - 1600-1700SP bard that can cc/heal on most epics.

    Getting mental toughness while leveling helps.

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