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  1. #1
    Community Member Thebeest's Avatar
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    Default Bard Fascinate Build advice

    Wanting to make my first bard. idea would to be able to fascinate epic mobs as end goal. what would be the best build for this? guessing that virtuoso pre would be good for it? don't know, asking for any build advice here. would prefer that it have some sort of solo-ability but not necessary if it hurts the end goal. also, any advice on how to play leveling up. i would even consider leveling up one way and then LR to final build if that would work better.

    Thanks for any advice on how to build & play.

    oh, btw. would be 32 pt any race.
    Occam's Razor - Thelanis
    TheBeest (TR 20 Paladin) -TheBeestlost (WF Wiz) -TheBeestwon (20 TR Human Sorc) -TheBeastI (Helf FVS) - TheBeastII (23 WF FVS) - TheBeestDad (20 Artificer) - TheBeats (20 Bard Virtuoso)

  2. #2
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thebeest View Post
    Wanting to make my first bard. idea would to be able to fascinate epic mobs as end goal.
    Pick any race.
    Pick any starting stat for cha.
    Take a bard level at level 1, put 4 skill points into Perform.
    At every subsequent level, put 1 skill point into Perform. (Regardless of choice of class)

    Worst-Case Cha breakdown: 6 Base 2 Tome 6 Item = +2 Mod

    Fascinate DC at cap:
    2 Cha
    23 skill
    15 item
    1 Focusing Chant
    4 Greater Heroism
    2 Good Luck
    1 Enhancement
    ----
    DC of 48 + 1d20, not subject to spell Pen, will safe.


    If you plan to fascinate Undead and Constructs as well, you can pick up the enhancements Music of the Dead and Music of Makers with any level 10 bard; Taking the Virtuoso PrE is not a strict requirement, also Extra Song IV will work.
    On top of this, Virtuoso II already requires extra Song III, i.e. the benefit of taking Virtuoso in regards to saving APs for the Song requirements shrinks to 4 APs.
    Personally I find Spell singers and Warchanters are more attractive than Virtuosos.

    You might be interested in clicking the bard link in my signature.

    TL; DR: Any bard splash can do what you are aiming for.

    Edit: ShadowFlash, you are totally right. This is what I was implying with my skill and class breakdown.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 02-29-2012 at 01:45 PM.
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  3. #3
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karl_k0ch View Post
    Pick any race.
    TL; DR: Any bard can do what you are aiming for.
    Going one step further, any bard SPLASH can fascinate well. My wife's 11/8/1 AA Ranger/Bard/Rogue uses it all the time.

    If fascinate is a VERY important goal, virtuoso I grants "enthrall" which essentially replaces fascinate. The difference being;enthralled mobs, when hit, have to make a save to break it. This is a VERY important distinction when using it with PuGs or anyone who doesn't understand how to use fascinate to it's best tactical advantage.

    On splashed builds, Virtuoso I requires Bard 6 AND a feat, as Extra Song IV is not available until level 10. It's common for virtuoso builds to use fred's free feat respec to drop the feat at level 10 and pick up the enhancement instead....or spec another pre until then.

    If deep splashing for Virtuoso I (enthrall), I like 8 levels of Bard for Song ATK/DMG II and extra song III and Inspire Courage+1 giving your normal song +4 ATK/DMG....not the greatest song, but without another bard in the group, it's handy. You'll get some handy buff spells too (including displacement), but even with Extend, they'll be short duration...

    Probablly way more than you needed to know, but I'm currently tweeking an 8 levle bard splash build, so it's in my head ATM :P

    ShadowFlash
    All the math your brain can handle concerning Divine Punishment
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344769

  4. #4
    Community Member Thebeest's Avatar
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    thanks for the responses. I have been looking through the bard link karl has and it has a ton of info on it. i am leaning toward virtuoso II for the enthrall, music of dead, music of maker, song of capering. it appears that i would not need to go pure 20 if i wanted to do this and could splash rogue for traps or fighter for melee ability?

    also, question on spell singer. from what i see, a spell singer is supposed to be the CC pre. why? and why should they stay pure to do this? i assume for higher dc, but what is a normal dc for them, good enough for epic?
    Occam's Razor - Thelanis
    TheBeest (TR 20 Paladin) -TheBeestlost (WF Wiz) -TheBeestwon (20 TR Human Sorc) -TheBeastI (Helf FVS) - TheBeastII (23 WF FVS) - TheBeestDad (20 Artificer) - TheBeats (20 Bard Virtuoso)

  5. #5
    Community Member Infant's Avatar
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    Ummm. Not that Karl and ShadowFlash are incorrect. They certainly are . With 1 bard level and any starting charisma, you can reach high enough Perform skill to fascinate everything.

    However, the duration of you Fascinate might be important. We can't know yet, but I can imagine that with MotU we will have more pesky drow who want to be fascinated. Sometimes, it is important that the mobs stay fascinated long enough. For this, you might want more than 1 level of bard .

  6. #6
    Community Member Thebeest's Avatar
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    yeah, that is a good thought as well had not thought about the length of the hold/fascinate time.
    Occam's Razor - Thelanis
    TheBeest (TR 20 Paladin) -TheBeestlost (WF Wiz) -TheBeestwon (20 TR Human Sorc) -TheBeastI (Helf FVS) - TheBeastII (23 WF FVS) - TheBeestDad (20 Artificer) - TheBeats (20 Bard Virtuoso)

  7. #7
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thebeest View Post
    thanks for the responses. I have been looking through the bard link karl has and it has a ton of info on it. i am leaning toward virtuoso II for the enthrall, music of dead, music of maker, song of capering. it appears that i would not need to go pure 20 if i wanted to do this and could splash rogue for traps or fighter for melee ability?

    also, question on spell singer. from what i see, a spell singer is supposed to be the CC pre. why? and why should they stay pure to do this? i assume for higher dc, but what is a normal dc for them, good enough for epic?
    spellsinger doesn't have to be CC, but if you want to use spells for CC, you want to be a spellsinger.

    DCs can get high enough for epic, though if you don't have reasonably good gear you'll have to debuff targets first.

    if they are planning to be a spellcasting spellsinger (as opposed to a melee spellsinger) they should stay pure because:

    1) you need more songs. trust me on this, for a spellsinger you will burn through songs like crazy if you use them to full potential (ie singing SP restoration song on each caster in the party). capstone gives 2 more songs, and each bard level gives songs, so you will have something like 6 more songs than an equivalent 16/2/2 build, for example. it also gives you longer-lasting songs, which is nice any time you are going a long time between shrines.

    2) capstone is absolutely essential for getting a respectable spell DC for challenging content. +2 charisma and +2 enchant DC is extremely important. it also helps with spell pen, and since you will be very feat-starved on a bard, this is also important.

    3) gets them an extra +1 hit/damage for their inspire courage, which puts them that little bit closer to where a splashed warchanter will be.

  8. #8
    Community Member Valindria's Avatar
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    More bard levels will make it last longer. If song based CC is your goal then Virtuoso is king adding song of capering at level 12. I LOVE song of capering. It's just amazing. The drawbacks are immune enemies but things like drow in epics who have high SR can be easily CCed with capering. Check Valindria in my sig for my Virtuoso.

  9. #9
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Good Call on Duration for Splashed Builds

    FYI:
    Inspire Courage has a base duration of 4 minutes
    Fascinate/Enthrall Duration=24 seconds+6 sec/bard level
    Extend Meta does NOT effect
    Sustaining Song DOES effect

    I.E. Level 8 Bard :
    Fascinate = 1:40 seconds with Sustaining Song II (+40%)
    Virtuoso I Pre, you gain 10% for 1:48

    Inspire Courage = 5:36 seconds with Sustaining Song II (+40%)
    Virtuoso I Pre, you gain 10% for 6 minutes on the head

    Ref: http://ddowiki.com/page/Talk:Fascinate

    General Split Guildlines:
    Spellsinger = Pure 20
    Warchanter = 16 Minimum ( usually 16/2/2)
    Virtuoso = ? I actually don't know of many Virtuoso Builds, but I've seen Melee Virt's being thrown around as ideas lately
    Deep Splash Bard = 8 or 12 Levels Depending on if you want the Tier II Pre.

    I've played around with the 8 level splash of both warchanter and spellsinger, virtuoso is next. I also have a 16/2/2 warchanter in progress, but it's on an alt account, and gets no love.

    ShadowFlash
    All the math your brain can handle concerning Divine Punishment
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344769

  10. #10
    Community Member Thebeest's Avatar
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    thx all

    think i will try virtuoso since it seems to be the red-headed step child of bard's and has song of capering, which looks nice to me. will probably build similar to yours valindria, so thx for the link! will take one of the required feats early and then switch it out after lvl 10 when have the enhancement.

    thx again all!
    Occam's Razor - Thelanis
    TheBeest (TR 20 Paladin) -TheBeestlost (WF Wiz) -TheBeestwon (20 TR Human Sorc) -TheBeastI (Helf FVS) - TheBeastII (23 WF FVS) - TheBeestDad (20 Artificer) - TheBeats (20 Bard Virtuoso)

  11. #11
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Posted a melee heavy fighter/bard mix build if you're curious...

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...29#post4343429

    It doesn't go all the way to Virt II, but definately has crowd control skills

    ShadowFlash
    All the math your brain can handle concerning Divine Punishment
    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=344769

  12. #12
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    Virtuoso bards are also good for enthrallment. If you're looking to go pure bard then cap out your charisma and perform.

    One thing that would make it easier for lvl'ing a little is to put some feats into weapon fighting while lvl'ing them swapping out later. If you're going drow you can put enhancements into the drow weapon bonuses or on my second life as a bard I actually took the kopesh feat for awhile and lvl'd with that. Traps will always be a problem if you're trying to solo it but you could even splash a couple rogue/arti into the build to be able to do traps then like you said lesser tr once you're capped.

    As a pure bard first life my fascinate dc was around 70, if i remember right I was virtuoso...this was before spellsinger. Second life I actually had dc's around 80 I even stopped putting points into perform at some point because nothing can save against the dc's that high, but I was spellsinger. Next time I go back bard with this toon I'll be going virtuoso simply because of enthrall which is better than fascinate by a long shot especially when people don't leave fascinated mobs alone.

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