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  1. #1
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    Default Update 13 and Elite Abbot Tiles

    Ran our usual Elite Abbot group this evening and everything going well until Elite tiles. No statics and the timing for the tiles has been changed and it seemed that the tiles are out longer then they are in. Short of zig-zaging across the map you might make it, but there are large gaping holes now that are not crossable because even with a jump start the next tile won't be there for another 1-2s.

    I'm fine if they want to make elite harder by eliminating the static tiles, you don't need any statics to cross, but when the timing is such that there are no moves to make then you can't complete.

    Needless to say, we went back in and 10 manned it on hard and knocked it out in one shot. On hard everything was working fine. There were statics and the tile timing was easy.

    Just an observation and was wondering if this is WAI.

    Anyone else run Elite Abbot Tiles since U13? Seems like every update Elite Abbot gets the stealth buff.

    This has been confirmed by one other person so far.

  2. #2
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    It happens sometimes.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Chette's Avatar
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    I ran a hard Abbot today and lead tiles for probably the 100th time. It was the worst tiles I have ever seen, nearly impossible. A friend of mine who I know to be an exceptional tiles leader ran another hard Abbot later today, same thing.

    Has there been a change?
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  4. #4
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    All I know is that I saw the same sort of complaints last update, but have been on runs over the last year and a half where the best possible route across was something like 2, back, 1, forward x2, 3, 1, back, 2, 2, end.

    Had a run earlier where one side was easy as heck with 4 blues, and the other side, which I ran, was 4, 2, 1, 2, 1, end with only 2 blues on the whole thing and stuff disappearing just as people were coming off the tiles. Didn't seem any different to me than runs of the past.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElrosOronar View Post
    I'm fine if they want to make elite harder by eliminating the static tiles, you don't need any statics to cross, but when the timing is such that there are no moves to make then you can't complete.
    I'm not fine with it. The raid is already an example of Turbines incompetence at fixing things with the 20th end reward still borked and the end chest contain nothing for some players, and the raid a cluster **** of problems. The inferno still hits you before the graphic and does nothing to you during the last 5 seconds. You can still get the entire raid teleporting down into being encased. There are still phantom asteroids and invisible ones that will hit the platform or perhaps ones directly underneath the platform. You still get asteroid tosses that fly up instead of where you aimed them. People will still pass through solid tiles. The iceball wands will sometimes not fire but will start the timer (probably part of the general "triggering too soon after the last cooldown" bug that effects everything).

    Any of these problems can effectively wipe the raid. Talk about a text book example of a badly designed raid, here it is. You can do your job perfectly you solve your puzzle and... ding X has died. Raid over. Healers obviously aren't expected to blow $5 in pots to re-kill abbot. Lovely. And it's not even always their fault, any of the Turbine bugs mentioned above can be the cause of it as well as poor client performance (hitching), poor server performance (lag), crashing client or the rare but possible poor internet connection or power outage.

    And goggles is the worst of it. Short of 2-boxers goggles is always the slowest. After finishing roids you AFK for 10 minutes and come back with fingers crossed that you get to continue playing instead of having to restart. Bloody awful.
    Last edited by oweieie; 02-28-2012 at 12:46 AM.

  6. #6
    Community Member Ghibly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chette View Post
    I ran a hard Abbot today and lead tiles for probably the 100th time. It was the worst tiles I have ever seen, nearly impossible. A friend of mine who I know to be an exceptional tiles leader ran another hard Abbot later today, same thing.

    Has there been a change?
    Same thing on Thelanis. HARD Abbot: I was on tiles (I wasn't the leader) and I took a look to the puzzle, extremely extremely harder than before.

    Fortunately we succeded (the tiles leader has been great).

    On the other side, the loot was "great": LotD, Breeze, Enduring Convinction, Circle of Hated, 1 Seal, Quiver.
    Fizbanius The Project - Horlando The Fury - Fizbot The Tukaw's A-BOrT - Bhaltazhar The Arcane
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  7. #7
    Community Member MiahooJunk's Avatar
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    Its not that bad...

    row2: 1tf-j2tb-j3tf-j4tb-j5tf-j6tb-j7tf-j8tb-j9tf-j10tb-j11-wing/as-end

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  8. #8
    Community Member Astraghal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oweieie View Post
    I'm not fine with it. The raid is already an example of Turbines incompetence at fixing things with the 20th end reward still borked and the end chest contain nothing for some players, and the raid a cluster **** of problems. The inferno still hits you before the graphic and does nothing to you during the last 5 seconds. You can still get the entire raid teleporting down into being encased. There are still phantom asteroids and invisible ones that will hit the platform or perhaps ones directly underneath the platform. You still get asteroid tosses that fly up instead of where you aimed them. People will still pass through solid tiles. The iceball wands will sometimes not fire but will start the timer (probably part of the general "triggering too soon after the last cooldown" bug that effects everything).

    Any of these problems can effectively wipe the raid. Talk about a text book example of a badly designed raid, here it is. You can do your job perfectly you solve your puzzle and... ding X has died. Raid over. Healers obviously aren't expected to blow $5 in pots to re-kill abbot. Lovely. And it's not even always their fault, any of the Turbine bugs mentioned above can be the cause of it as well as poor client performance (hitching), poor server performance (lag), crashing client or the rare but possible poor internet connection or power outage.

    And goggles is the worst of it. Short of 2-boxers goggles is always the slowest. After finishing roids you AFK for 10 minutes and come back with fingers crossed that you get to continue playing instead of having to restart. Bloody awful.
    Very eloquently put and it doesn't just end at Abbot. This goes right across the board. I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices the million little things.

  9. #9
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiahooJunk View Post
    Its not that bad...

    row2: 1tf-j2tb-j3tf-j4tb-j5tf-j6tb-j7tf-j8tb-j9tf-j10tb-j11-wing/as-end

    I haven't seen this syntax before, what's going on here?
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  10. #10
    Community Member Ghibly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miahoojunk View Post
    its not that bad...

    Row2: 1tf-j2tb-j3tf-j4tb-j5tf-j6tb-j7tf-j8tb-j9tf-j10tb-j11-wing/as-end

    :d
    rotfl
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  11. #11
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    Hmm I'll have to go take a look at tiles. I went and verified that tiles are still the same on normal in terms of their timing, but I didn't get into tiles on the other difficulties so I'll have to arrange another time to do that when I have some time.

    The biggest change that I've noticed in Abbot is that he seems to cast horrid wilting a lot more frequently now, and they connect a lot more often. It used to be that he casts it at around 1.5-2 times per minute, and quite often they'd miss the group (i.e. I see the graphic but no one's HP goes down or just a few), now he seems to cast it at something like 3 times a minute and I can see the melees getting ~125 HP taken off (or ~250 HP when they fail fort save) as a group. It's quite noticeable now to see the melees all get a good chunk of their HP taken off whenever he casts it. But the data is only for a few runs so I'll have to wait until there's more runs to really know, and compare with data on previous runs more precisely. But that seems to be a possible change.

  12. #12
    Community Member MiahooJunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off View Post
    I haven't seen this syntax before, what's going on here?
    Different servers/groups have different syntax.

    tumble = change row.
    jump = title is going red while the next apear - so jump to the next (and not just run to it).

    So it means:
    row 2: 1 tumble forward (move to row 1) - jump to 2 tumble back (move to row 2) - jump to 3 tumble forward (move to row 1) - jump to 4 tumble back (move to row 2) - jump to 5...
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  13. #13

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    On the other side, the loot was "great": LotD, Breeze, Enduring Convinction, Circle of Hated, 1 Seal, Quiver.
    Not sure why you are putting great in quotes. That's phenomenal loot. Better than I've ever seen. In fact, in 25ish completions (almost all hard/elite), that's more loot than I've seen pulled in all of them combined.
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  14. #14
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    I had some guildies help me out with getting into abbot tiles on elite tonight.

    I can confirm that the tiles timing for Abbot has changed, and now scales with difficulty.

    Pre-update 13, the tiles timing (regardless of difficulty) was:

    9 seconds white
    3 seconds fading to red
    4 seconds missing

    Post-update 13, the tiles timing by difficulty is now:

    Normal:
    9 seconds white
    3 seconds fading to red
    4 seconds missing

    Hard:
    6.5 seconds white
    3.5 seconds fading to red
    5 seconds missing

    Elite:
    3.5 seconds white
    3.5 seconds fading to red
    7 seconds missing

    So in Update 13, a given (non-permanent) tile is missing 25% of the time on normal, 33% of the time on hard, and 50% of the time on elite. On elite, I don't think any of them are permanently missing, it's simply that half the board is missing at any given point in time now so it'll take a while to get used to it. Also, not sure if it's just bad luck, but both sides of the board when I went in had no permanent tiles. I can confirm through past videos that the tiles were still using the old timing sequence on elite as recently as 2/26, so this was a change that came with the update.

    I believe (though I'll have to run the numbers fully to be sure) that the Abbot is still around 300k HP on elite. He also hits a lot more often with his horrid wilting now, which on elite will take off 125 damage even if you make the fort save (and 250 damage if you fail); it was a nonissue prior to this patch but it's a significant component of his damage now. This may simply be that they've updated how AOEs do hit detection now (i.e. blades in shroud). So all this represents a significant stealth buff to the Abbot raid. The main fight is somewhat deadlier now, requiring more SP to get through, and tiles has also been increased in difficulty. I'm not sure if the other puzzles have been changed.

    If you want to look at tiles on elite now, I've uploaded a video of it on Youtube:

    http://youtu.be/hICUZ5aKFeY

    The vantage point is that bridge above the end on the non-goggles side (north side). So the bottom tiles are the half-tiles that are at the very end, and the far end is where you start. I don't know why, but the video ended up being kind of dark, so the left side tiles are half-missing, but I can verify that they're all present.

    Needless to say, this represents a significant stealth buff to Abbot which apparently Turbine felt wasn't important enough to go into the release notes. I hope the loot issues have been fixed.

  15. #15
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    Thanks for more superb testing and information, Vanshilar. I stand corrected on my earlier comments.

    I have to say, this is incredibly disappointing. I'm really boggled by the devs...they spend months releasing crappy, broken content, then many more trying to improve their image, open up communication with us, and generally improve the game. Then they make one of the most difficult raids, and least PUG-accessible one, more difficult than it had already been after getting buffed, making the most frustrating part of the raid (tiles) more challenging without addressing any of the issues that would make it less annoying, but neglect to mention any of this in the release notes and fail (apparently) to address the loot issues.

    So we ended up with a significantly more challenging raid for worse loot. To make matters worse, this thing has been under scrutiny and has seen nearly constant revisions since it came out 4 (5?) years ago, and still isn't right.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    Pre-update 13, the tiles timing (regardless of difficulty) was:

    9 seconds white
    3 seconds fading to red
    4 seconds missing

    Post-update 13, the tiles timing by difficulty is now:

    Normal:
    9 seconds white
    3 seconds fading to red
    4 seconds missing

    Hard:
    6.5 seconds white
    3.5 seconds fading to red
    5 seconds missing

    Elite:
    3.5 seconds white
    3.5 seconds fading to red
    7 seconds missing
    Wow. Thank you for collecting all that data. Definitely makes goggles more interesting.

    Not sure I like MORE scaling being added to Abbot. First, the mob is 'buffed' with all raid bosses. Then the scaling is 'fixed' and he becomes a beast compared to before. Now the puzzles are being altered? In no way should the raid be a joke but this raid is the same level as The Shroud yet is far more difficult. It was already hard enough trying to entice people to learn goggles, atleast on Cannith.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yalann View Post
    Definitely makes goggles more interesting.
    I'd say more irritating than interesting.
    I'm well over 100+runs and my hate for this raid is growing stronger each update.

    Time/resources wise Elite abbot was already into the "why bother" territory, now it's almost sad.
    I wonder what devs are trying to accomplish here; after the latest changes hard abbot was the norm, now even more so ( chest bug aside ).
    Is it a game design goal to discourage people from running this raid?

  18. #18
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    Thanks Vanshilar for the additional info! Also with the scaling Elite has NO static tiles.

    I did get someone across last night on Elite and yes MiahooJunk the sequence did look like:
    row2: 1tf-j2tb-j3tf-j4tb-j5tf-j6tb-j7tf-j8tb-j9tf-j10tb-j11-wing/as-end

    It's just silly ridiculous now on Elite, which they should just let us click the Epic box and keep the same settings and at least get a token or two plus loot.

    Why Turbine?? Every Update Abbot gets stealth upgrades!? All of which none are ever in any release notes?


    Thanks.

  19. #19
    Community Member cdr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vanshilar View Post
    I believe (though I'll have to run the numbers fully to be sure) that the Abbot is still around 300k HP on elite. He also hits a lot more often with his horrid wilting now, which on elite will take off 125 damage even if you make the fort save (and 250 damage if you fail); it was a nonissue prior to this patch but it's a significant component of his damage now. This may simply be that they've updated how AOEs do hit detection now (i.e. blades in shroud). So all this represents a significant stealth buff to the Abbot raid. The main fight is somewhat deadlier now, requiring more SP to get through, and tiles has also been increased in difficulty. I'm not sure if the other puzzles have been changed.
    The targeting of Horrid Wilting was fixed with U13, it's been in the release notes: http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Relea...fficial#Spells

  20. #20
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    I too will chime in and say that hard tiles was noted as the worst that either of the experienced tile runners in my party had seen.
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