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  1. #61
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default It's tough...

    So this past weekend I ran Necro 2 elite at level Saturday and Threnal elite at level Sunday.

    And the winner of Worst Chain to run is....

    Necro II.

    Threnal was terrible. It took forever, Coyle is just as annoying as I remember, every time someone joined we had to start over and ended up doing West twice, someone accidentally clicked on reset in East, we left him... terrible. But at the end I enjoyed the loot and felt like playing more.

    Necropolis II on elite, not so much. 6 hours total. Not...even....kidding. 3 people new to the chain, an influx of random people who would join and then not stay, absolutely awful. We get to Shadow Crypt, get through that in about 15 minutes... and I did not want to play the game anymore. I was so frustrated it's not even funny. The mechanics are stupid, the water part takes FOREVER and has almost no mobs, why is there a shrine that you have to reach through the bars to use? The one with the lights was mind boggling frustrating (when the idea is to pull mobs to the lights and then fight them there, why randomly have traps in odd places and walls you can go through with NO indication that there is something to go through and a wall you can climb up with no ladder UURRGGHH!!)... and then there's the one with the needed split up. That one, I think it's Shadow Lord, is the worst, the worst quest in that ENTIRE chain (yes, even worse than the water one), and makes me sad on the inside. The worst part is a lot of people really enjoy some of those, but those people are never logged on when I wanna run em :P
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
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  2. #62
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    A trick to make this easier is to click on the lever to unlock it, but then move before you actually pull on it. It remains unlocked. Then, you can trade the gear over, and both people pull at once. This also works if you have a hireling. You'll just have to unlock the side one, position the hireling on that, then go back to the middle.

    It's still a frustrating mechanic, but there are ways around the latency/lag.
    Awesome bit of advice there about the hireling! So hard to get parties for the craptastic nature of that chain
    that soloing it makes it much easier to unlock the last quest.
    The Office of the Exchequer. 1750 on all live servers via Pure pugging. Thank you very much to all who helped carry a gimp . (wayfinder was a soloist build)


  3. #63
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by herzkos View Post
    Awesome bit of advice there about the hireling! So hard to get parties for the craptastic nature of that chain
    that soloing it makes it much easier to unlock the last quest.
    Thank MrCow actually. It's shown in one of his videos how to effectively solo it with a hireling.

  4. #64
    Community Member herzkos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    Thank MrCow actually. It's shown in one of his videos how to effectively solo it with a hireling.
    Ahhhh, shoulda figured something so sneaky woulda come from him. . .

    Thanks MrCow. Must be getting tired of hearing that though.
    The Office of the Exchequer. 1750 on all live servers via Pure pugging. Thank you very much to all who helped carry a gimp . (wayfinder was a soloist build)


  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardMerrick View Post
    Snip

    Tomb of the Forbidden. You only have a few seconds to pull a lever, pass an item through a gate to another player in trade, and have them pull a second lever before yours resets? Oh, *that's* fun. Especially when trade windows can take 3-5 seconds to pop up from the time you smack the button. Hooray for Cannith Crafting or Server Load or whatever causes that! This quest and Tomb of the Blighted could both be very easily "fixed" if there were two gears in Forbidden and each member of the party could pick up vials in Blighted. Such small changes and suddenly they're PUG-friendly.
    items they needed for the next portion.

    Snip
    You don't make sure that everyone in the party has vials in Tomb of the Blighted?
    ... pass the bag of vials around to everyone in the party and have them collect a stack. Quest takes almost no time with a couple minutes training new people.

    Never had an issue in there.

    To be on topic. I agree that Therenal needs to be broken up. Last couple times I was trying to run this half the party was new to it and they reset the chain at each part and never got access to south.
    Last edited by Ikuryo; 03-04-2012 at 01:00 PM.

  6. #66
    Community Member Hobgoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikuryo View Post
    You don't make sure that everyone in the party has vials in Tomb of the Blighted?
    ... pass the bag of vials around to everyone in the party and have them collect a stack. Quest takes almost no time with a couple minutes training new people.

    Never had an issue in there.
    also, undead are immune to the rot part.

    makes it easy on a pm.

    hob
    main toons: hauteur(silly caster) Sttomper (silly barbarian)-jammiee (Silly paladin)
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    You are still completely free to run around like a jackrabbit on caffeine.
    quem deus vult perdere, dementat prius

  7. #67
    The Hatchery vVvAiaynAvVv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    I would like to share a story, then quantify which chains that, unless you are willing to start over, you will NEVER fill up a group for.

    Last night, join a Co6 Elite run. The leader was a rogue/ arti/ ranger splash, so I figured traps were covered. I get in, tell him I will buff and head to the caves, and he reiterates it's just Co6. D'oh! I had spaced that. Couple other people had as well, as they piped up at that point saying no one had flagged for it. Leader is annoyed, which I understand, and we go in and do the Sorrowdusk part.

    It's going really well, TBH, sub 4 minute runs on everything, Get to Co6, go through the first 2 there, even though he said something about how he hadn't planned on running the other chain and how he didn't like us infringing on his time I figure 12 extra minutes to get people flagged can't impact his playtime too much... get to the big temple and he ragequits. In the middle of everything. Just leaves. As you all know, this was right before the one with all the mephits and fire traps. On elite. and the highest level amongst us was 9, the sorc I think. We had a couple toons with sub-100 HP.

    Long story slightly shorter, we finish, out of a full group at the beginning just me and the sorc at the end, but it got me to thinking. What quest chains do you run that you know the only chance of getting a group together is to restart? Off the top of my head I am thinking:

    Catacombs
    Tangleroot
    Sorrowdusk/ Co6

    I can't think of any others. Even like Delera's has good enough XP you can jump in at any time and run them, and the necro ones and VON and all that are non-sequential... Did this guy getting annoyed and ragequitting for us wasting 12 minutes of his time have merit? I know he had Co6 in the LFM and me and 3 others ignored this, but was I in the wrong or was he?

    EDIT: ROFL, Wrong area to post this. I am too lazy to move it though.
    Honestly....I don't see how you are mentioning any of those three chains seeing as how they are all completely solo-able even on elite......especially with a well geared toon and a hireling.

    I'd have to say just about one of the only quests aside from raids of course would be Fleshmaker's, and that's if you had a small party to begin with.

    If you disregarded the LFM notes you were 100% in the wrong...sorry.

    Also I know not everyone wants to do this but you can always just get a gold seal rogue if traps are an obstacle...they are not to expensive...honestly tho I am not sure how well they do on elite traps.

    One issue is the current state of the game.....party starts to fall apart instead of people going into tactical mode...they go into crybaby mode and start sniveling about how much xp/minute they are losing.

    I find nothing more satisfying in this game than a bunch of die-hards that stick it out and RESOURCEFULLY complete a quest...as in NOT chugging a bunch of pots and consumables but using intelligence and ingenuity to make it through a tough situation.....that is what makes great players.....and this game is severely short on those types of players.

    The problem with this game is too many people don't play the character they are on....they have their head in the clouds thinking about all the gear they are gonna have end game for that toon or their next 20 builds. As soon as the automation mode is broken and the xp/minute gauges go below normal everything falls apart...it's really quite pathetic.
    Last edited by vVvAiaynAvVv; 03-04-2012 at 01:41 PM.

    Scratt for president!!!!

  8. #68
    Community Member Llewndyn's Avatar
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    Default Wow you are awesome

    Quote Originally Posted by vVvAiaynAvVv View Post
    Honestly....I don't see how you are mentioning any of those three chains seeing as how they are all completely solo-able even on elite......especially with a well geared toon and a hireling.

    I'd have to say just about one of the only quests aside from raids of course would be Fleshmaker's, and that's if you had a small party to begin with.

    If you disregarded the LFM notes you were 100% in the wrong...sorry.

    Also I know not everyone wants to do this but you can always just get a gold seal rogue if traps are an obstacle...they are not to expensive...honestly tho I am not sure how well they do on elite traps.

    One issue is the current state of the game.....party starts to fall apart instead of people going into tactical mode...they go into crybaby mode and start sniveling about how much xp/minute they are losing.

    I find nothing more satisfying in this game than a bunch of die-hards that stick it out and RESOURCEFULLY complete a quest...as in NOT chugging a bunch of pots and consumables but using intelligence and ingenuity to make it through a tough situation.....that is what makes great players.....and this game is severely short on those types of players.

    The problem with this game is too many people don't play the character they are on....they have their head in the clouds thinking about all the gear they are gonna have end game for that toon or their next 20 builds. As soon as the automation mode is broken and the xp/minute gauges go below normal everything falls apart...it's really quite pathetic.
    I love it when you exhale in my direction.

    I can see what you did there, you began reading this thread and the sheer awesomesauce that is everything you do clouded the words and twisted them into the worst chains to run because I can't get through them because I don't know how to play the game and am a complete failure in game. This might still be the case, I won't dispute that, that's an argument for another time, but that wasn't the point of this thread. You know what I find satisfying? When people read a thread before responding. Since you didn't do that. I will paraphrase for you because you are a forumite and thus my friend:

    I was asking which chains are the hardest to START and then get a pug together HALFWAY through. VON used to be like that but now is much more PUG friendly, as you don't have to do them in order, which is bueno (that's Spanish for good). A terrible chain to try to get a group together in the middle of, in my opinion, is Tangleroot, because it's easy to get stuff out of order and usually if you PUG you have to restart. In my ENTIRE dialog, I said NOTHING about:

    1. Quest difficulty
    2. resource usage
    3. How well geared I am
    4. Hireling usage
    5. How tough said chains are to solo

    None of those came up in my post. I am not sure where you even got those from. Of COURSE I can solo Tangleroot and Catacombs with my eyes closed and my screen turned off using the sheer force of my awesome brainpower... that doesn't mean I WANT to do that EVERY time.

    Fleshmakers is a good example of what I was asking for. I did not know it was a tough chain to get a PUG for. Is this because the flagging mechanism or is there another reason?

    Once again I thank you for your response and respect you and your opinion greatly.
    Ghallanda - LLEWNDYN 27 Necro Wiz (completionist) + other random uncared for players - Blackmoor Defenders
    Thelanis - Llewndyn (FVS), Brickadoom Jenkins (barb/ ftr)
    Quote Originally Posted by jandhaer View Post
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  9. #69
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    None of those came up in my post. I am not sure where you even got those from. Of COURSE I can solo Tangleroot and Catacombs with my eyes closed and my screen turned off using the sheer force of my awesome brainpower... that doesn't mean I WANT to do that EVERY time.
    You use your brainpower to solo Tangleroot and Catacombs with your eyes closed and your screen turned off? Noob.

    Once you get good at the game, you'll be able to do it without using your brain and with your computer turned off so you can save electricity.

  10. #70
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grgurius View Post

    As for your other question, you haven't read the lfm, so some anger on the party leaders side is understandable.
    Bah, the PL could have said 'no.' He agreed to re-run Sorrowdusk in order to get a full party so he should have left the butt-hurt at the quest entrance.

    Re-running a flagging quest so one or two members of the group can finish the chain is pretty common in PUGs I've participated in.

    Always re-running Titan so folks can get on the DD island. Can't tell you how many times I've re-run Lordsmarch quests so someone could join the "Eyes of Stone" PUG I've posted.

    I'd say the biggest pain for me is re-running the DQ flagging quests b/c someone is ALWAYS missing one of them (and it's never Chamber of Raiyum).
    Last edited by Postumus; 03-05-2012 at 04:28 PM.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    So this past weekend I ran Necro 2 elite at level Saturday and Threnal elite at level Sunday.

    And the winner of Worst Chain to run is....

    Necro II.
    Worse than Necro 3 with Tomb of the Tormented? I finished N2 and gave up on N3. I'm forced to believe the whole Necro series is a psych experiment to see what aggravation buttons they can push and still get you coming back for more. I might try it again if the Silver Flame vendor start stocking Majors.

  12. #72
    Community Member Shallowain's Avatar
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    My worst 3 are:

    1: threnal, everything about it has already been said. To fix it it either needs a serious rework, or they should just make it f2p and abandon it. demanding money for it is rather insulting.

    2: Necro 4, the quests aren't even that bad, its the horrendous flagging mechanic. I wouldn't even be too upset if the sigil would be a persistant item like the sigil from restless isles, that way it would at least stay after TR, but every life grinding out 8 pieces, that may or may not drop? where it took me months to get the first (and last) toon flagged because one goddamn sigil peace refused to drop? and that for what? the worst most unpuggable raid in the entire game that was broken from the beginning and gets more broken every update? The only reason I put it not at #1 is that the quests themselves are rather enjoyable and have good loot. although I kinda dislike Inferno, but its fine with a good leader.

    3: Restless isles. flagging is fine, but the worthless map and the inability to actually get to the raid in a raid party without gt makes it a pain. could be solved like in Amrath, have to reach the forge once to get a "bind" point where you can teleport to from the foothold, like with the ToD cavern. Worst part about that chain is, that almost nobody runs it. even if you throw up an lfm you barely can fill it and if you try the raid, better get ready for lots of wait combined with serious frustration. A possible solution would be to just make it f2p, but honestly, I can't see the raid being done with most pugs.

    honorable mention: The other necro chains. Main problem, is the "reflagging" for the crypts. they should stay permanently accessible once you have done the 4 tombs. the quests themselves are rather hit or miss, some are good some are bad, some horrible. I personally grown to like tormented, I am rather good with the rats now, just need someone to do the traps and kill the trash below.

  13. #73
    Community Member Xeraphim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Llewndyn View Post
    I would like to share a story, then quantify which chains that, unless you are willing to start over, you will NEVER fill up a group for.

    Last night, join a Co6 Elite run. The leader was a rogue/ arti/ ranger splash, so I figured traps were covered. I get in, tell him I will buff and head to the caves, and he reiterates it's just Co6. D'oh! I had spaced that. Couple other people had as well, as they piped up at that point saying no one had flagged for it. Leader is annoyed, which I understand, and we go in and do the Sorrowdusk part.

    <Snip>

    EDIT: ROFL, Wrong area to post this. I am too lazy to move it though.

    I have one of those right now on Argo and let me tell you now: I enjoy Mechanic's INT to damage. I like Arti 6's Battle Engineer. The Ranger part is pure garbage and I want to get its past life.

    Mine went Art3, Rog6, Art3, Ranger and hasn't done Co6 so I'm sorry to hear that about a fellow "\/\/TF did I create again?!" build maker.

    While flagging is tedious, so long as a player wants XP, they will shut it and deal about not getting that random-loot end reward. If you encounter folks that can't get into a chain because it locks out those not flagged, expect to repeat the living hell out of a few parts of it. Threnal is the WORST about this in my experience as at least 3 hours of time is demanded for the entire chain (unless you have experienced TR XP Zergers comprising the group (Hint: They always get the "Nobody Died." bonus and usually finish in record time with Conquest)), during which you will probably go through at least 3 healers and 2 of any other class due to "random life bullsh**".

    Cat'a'combs isn't so bad because folks can join whoever has the quest chain progressing and get the XP. The same is true for Colt of the Sicks.

    The Undedd chains are not so awful unless you are a Ranged build in Necro II or a squishy low-will-save character. Yes, Tomb of the Shadow Guard is a 15+ minute Swim with fighting between. It is SO tedious.

    The Restless Isles are a must for Titan flagging. The level 11 Twilight Forge quest on Elite with a Tome and Potion is absolutely ludicrous XP, and is well worth the detour so long as your group can follow an internet guide quickly. Getting flagged for the Forge is frustrating if your group gets split up, as the islands are confusing and the maps are broken. The overpowered nature of Ogre Tripleswing that has never been addressed except only in the case that they chain-triplesmash and end up dealing you 1200 damage in 8 seconds combined with Worgs later on that are for some idiotic reason Invisible (and can go Invisible during combat despite Player Character complete inability to do this with Sneak), the Isles can be a cruelly frustrating place.

    The Sigil of the Orchard is by far one of the most irritating mechanics I have encountered, predominantly because the quests to get the sigil pieces are very frustrating (one of them is literally impossible to solo or duo with a hireling - Fleshmaker) and Litany of the Dead is little more than an XP farm (and one I would not do without). This, of course, is due to the Abbott Raid being nearly impossible to complete thanks to the extensively excessive overuse of instant death mechanics that cause an entire raid to fail when only one person dies/experiences lag/takes a bio break/gets interrupted by their *#(!@& kids again/etc. I think the Abbott ate Costello to gain his ridiculous power.

    If the XP output on Cullt of the Sickxs was increased, it would be worth doing for a TR. If the XP output on Threnal was increased, it would be worth doing for a TR. If the XP for Shadow Crypt in Necro II was reduced, TR land would weep bitterly. If the XP for Chanes of Flaime was increased, we'd likely see TRs stop skipping it and maybe even do ADQ1 and 2 at level Elite.
    Last edited by Xeraphim; 03-19-2012 at 09:08 AM. Reason: Grammary Error!

  14. #74
    Community Member TheHolyDarkness's Avatar
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    Default Wow. Can't believe I'm the first to mention this. Shame.

    Threnal this. Threnal that.

    Necro II, Necro III, Restless Isles. Fine I hear you. They all have their issues.

    But the worst chain? Well, should that title not go to the one none bothers to play? The one we always fail to remember in its utter lack of incentive? Have you all forgotten? But of course you have.

    The worst chain to fill?
























































































    Three Barrel Cove.

    ~TheHolyDarkness Out~
    Last edited by TheHolyDarkness; 03-23-2012 at 12:59 AM.
    "A man can remake the entire world, if he has a dream and no facts to cloud his mind."

  15. #75

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    Three Barrel Cove is not a chain.
    I am the 'Who' In the call "Who's there!?"
    I am the wind blowing through your hair.
    I am the shadow on the moon at night, filling your dreams to the brim with fright.

  16. #76
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHolyDarkness View Post
    Three Barrel Cove.

    ~TheHolyDarkness Out~
    Why would you bother trying to fill a group for 3BC? Just go solo it or pester one of your guildies into doing it with you.

  17. #77
    Community Member WizardMerrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikuryo View Post
    You don't make sure that everyone in the party has vials in Tomb of the Blighted?
    ... pass the bag of vials around to everyone in the party and have them collect a stack. Quest takes almost no time with a couple minutes training new people.
    Hrm. I didn't know you could do that. The few times I've run it, someone in the party always grabs it before me and doesn't pass it around so I had no idea you could.

    Thanks for the tip.
    -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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  18. #78
    Community Member Sarzor's Avatar
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    Tangleroot is the worst, not because the quests (Threnal takes that) but I feel any chain which cannot be run together has issues. Level 3-7 quests? By time your group can handle the late quests, you get no xp from the first quests. Sure, experienced people can do it, but for a sizable portion of the populace, not-so-much.

    At least the Sorrowdusk stuff is broken into two chains.

  19. #79
    Community Member der_kluge's Avatar
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    the worst probably is Sorrowdusk - mostly because of the level spread. I solo'd them in two level blocks, and then amazingly had a couple of other people help on the final part. Though, it's kind of an unwritten rule to do that first hafl early, and then flag for Co6 (which is a reference to the last half, specifically), and then try to find a group for that.

    But I agree it's really, really hard.

    As a TR, looking to do at level elites, there are several in this category:

    Pugging at level Chronoscope is nearly impossible.

    Sorrowdusk is a pain.

    Threnal, as others have mentioned.

    Tangleroot is also hard because of the level range, and the fact that the chain sucks.

    I don't typically have a problem with the Catacombs. It's also fairly close in level, and I usually wait for the LFM to fill before we start. This solves the late stragglers problem.

    Necro II isn't too bad - the XP is really good, so lots of folks run it.

    Filling an LFM for Sentinels is also pretty hard.

    Pugging at level "Spies in the House" is next to impossible.
    Cannith:
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  20. #80
    Community Member Zyerz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    I dont know about "worst" to run, but Catacombs is almost impossible to fill unless you leave the LFM up as you progress. I usually consider a 5 man party run on that to be on the larger side. Luckily most people get stuck on the final fight solo, so they dont mind rerunning some of the others for a completion. I really enjoy the Catacombs story and quests. It was the first pack I ever purchased and the only one ever purchased not on sale.

    I think the worst chain to get a group for is Necro 1. Nobody ever wants to run that very frequently, and because of the flagging I hate joining an LFM in progress.
    Catacumbs is superbly soloable on elite at level. The end fight can get a bit tough, but with some ghost touch weps, makes it easy. And I'm not talking about using a TR or with hirelings. With a well built toon, any class can solo catacumbs.

    As for chains? I really hate the sharn syndicate. But I love CO6 and Threnal.

    "Hikari datte, yami datte, kitto"

    Into light, into darkness, surely.

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