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  1. #1841
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    The one we fought is Validus in Delera's Graveyard.

    That makes a lot more sense! I have Zawabi on the brain. LOL!

    Great write ups guys. Thrilling stuff.

  2. #1842
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5
    But the lich is also very badly damaged, enough for Ktorr, to recuperate, get to the throne room, attack again, and finish him off.

    What should I have done differently?
    Not sure anything would have changed the outcome.

    Look at it from a whole adventure point of view.
    The encounters lower in the tower were no pushover, but by the time we reached the Throne Room, the party had 100% Hit Points and around 50% Spells, except for Tukcc, who used all his spells in curatives.

    We are 11th level, and the Lich was 15. A Difficult encounter is described as 2 CR's above Party Level.
    This encounter would have been described as "Very, Very Difficult", I think.

    Grondley and Kierik stated after the Quest that their most powerful spells failed, then just now you stated that you failed your saves.
    This makes sense considering the CR of the Monster we faced.
    This thing was practically invulnerable compared to our party.

    The way I saw it, the combination of Kierik, Grondley and Cogoiler grasped the Lich's attention and gave Jack, Tukcc and Ktorr the opportunity to injure the monster right off the bat.
    Magic was not going to be as effective as we wished, but maybe it had SOME effect.
    Cogs was scoring some damage, but not enough of the result he expected.

    Tukcc dropped first, followed by Ktorr falling, leaving Jack to continue till his ultimate demise, but not before critically injuring the Monster.

    If it weren't for Ktorr's unexpected removal from combat, he would have prob fallen as Tukcc did.
    In his case, it gave him the opportunity to heal and re-enter the encounter in his own fashion, which made a lot of difference.

    I believe the victory was a combination of teamwork and a large dose of Luck.
    Against a CR15 Lich, I would call this an astounding victory?
    An excellent non-Ebberon Adventure?

  3. #1843
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Trading blows...

    I have captured the instant that Validus is casting while Ktorr is firing the arrow that finishes him off.



    And yes, a great deal of luck.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  4. #1844
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    This is one of those Adventures I believe we were not supposed to succeed in.
    Some Quests can be like that.

    Fortune did indeed smile on us that night.

  5. #1845
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    Contrary to initial reports, I never even considered using my Hammers on that Lich. Had no intention of getting that close.
    From "GO", it was the bow all the way, 3 arrows at a time with rapid shot. When that "watch that first step" moment came,
    the Lich was at about 50% - 60%.

  6. #1846
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    "Are we ready?" Tukcc's whisper boomed through the utterly quiet antechamber. No, not at all. Kierik thought as he quietly but firmly replied, "Yes!" Enchant weapons, sing my Song of Heroism, ready my staff. We charge into battle but the Lich is waiting for us, ready and willing to humble the puny foolish mortals. Spells start to fly, mostly from the Lich. The air grows thick and its hard to see. Tukcc is the first to charge. Actually, he's the only one to charge. The others are doing something, but I can't see it. So far, so good - the Lich isn't looking at me. Sonic spells! No good. Enchantments are obviously useless. Yikes, acid rain! Move! Heal thyself! What to do now? Heal Tukcc! He's down. Got him back. Down again! Got him back! This time he's down for good. What to do now? Spells are useless. Teammates are mostly dead. The floor is falling to pieces. Dimension Door? No, I still have a tiny path. Charge! Whack! Thump! Argh! (Disintegrate, save failed!). Fade to a sort of white...

    (my highest level spells are level 4. The lich was immune to level 4 and lower. can't believe we won because Ktorr fell through the floor )

  7. #1847
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    I concentrate and raise my spell power to the maximum. 'Every one ready?"; I cast haste and in we go. There he is, I command Jac to attack, cast fire wall and the room fills with green mist. I move to one side and cast fire wall again. And I'm dead. Save vs acid rain, fail; Save vs disintergrate, fail. The rest of THACO is attacking and the lich is slowly losing ground; but one by one they are falling. Ktorr is 'saved' by plummeting back to the first level through the crumbling floor. Jac is now the only one left fighting and it is close but he too is defeated. But the lich is also very badly damaged, enough for Ktorr, to recuperate, get to the throne room, attack again, and finish him off.

    What should I have done differently? Casting more resists would have helped, and summoned a lantern archon.

    You failed two saves, which is bad luck. Also Validus has very tough spell defenses: immunity to cold & lightning, mantle of invulnerability.


    Waiting until the meat bags - er - your 'melee' had established aggro would have saved you from the disintegrate spell. Your maximized firewall is going to outdamage your melees very quickly, so you have to hold back on the big guns, be crafty, let the ranger grab all the aggro with his many shot, don't stand near him, then lay down your max firewalls and blast away.


    You can always cast a d-door and have it ready for a quick getaway if things get hairy while your AoEs and DoT keep whittling down the bad guy's HPs. A lot of big bads do not self heal. Better to damage, retreat, and come back than die.

  8. #1848
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Lich, Luck, and Lunacy!

    Cogs stepped forward from the small half circle platform at the entrance, then back as he spotted the horrid lich across the large room. Forcing himself to remain calm in spite of a pounding heart and quaking knees, he waited for someone else to open the ball before joining in with his trusty great crossbow. The young tinker and mender knew his weapons would be ineffective against even normal skeletons and specters, but had hopes of at least providing gnat nibbles to the total damage.

    Immediately spells and arrows began to fly from his friends, allowing him to join in with everything his training in rapid fire allowed. One bolt, two, three... a bright green flash from the lich and Cogoiler was struck with bone melting sickness that swept over him, instantly followed by a bright flash and a roar that sent him into darkness. He awoke at the entrance beside a dimension door, and knew he had somehow drawn the attention of the horror, and paid the ultimate price. Recovery in a tavern would be required. Cogs just hoped the lich would not come to get him in his sleep. He prayed to Olladra that the others were able to destroy it in spite of his failure.

    (( Cogs was only doing 2 to 5 points of yellow damage with his bolts. He is still confused as to why he drew the attention of the lich and received over twice his HP in damage almost instantly. GREAT evening of adventure! ))

  9. #1849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    Cogs stepped forward from the small half circle platform at the entrance, then back as he spotted the horrid lich across the large room. Forcing himself to remain calm in spite of a pounding heart and quaking knees, he waited for someone else to open the ball before joining in with his trusty great crossbow. The young tinker and mender knew his weapons would be ineffective against even normal skeletons and specters, but had hopes of at least providing gnat nibbles to the total damage.

    Immediately spells and arrows began to fly from his friends, allowing him to join in with everything his training in rapid fire allowed. One bolt, two, three... a bright green flash from the lich and Cogoiler was struck with bone melting sickness that swept over him, instantly followed by a bright flash and a roar that sent him into darkness. He awoke at the entrance beside a dimension door, and knew he had somehow drawn the attention of the horror, and paid the ultimate price. Recovery in a tavern would be required. Cogs just hoped the lich would not come to get him in his sleep. He prayed to Olladra that the others were able to destroy it in spite of his failure.

    (( Cogs was only doing 2 to 5 points of yellow damage with his bolts. He is still confused as to why he drew the attention of the lich and received over twice his HP in damage almost instantly. GREAT evening of adventure! ))
    Awesome!


    Well, at least now Cogs knows that Lich's often have DR/blunt. Just like skellies. Which makes sense if you think about it.

  10. #1850
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default Awww shucks, darn, h e double hockey sticks and other naughty words...

    I've been kicking around some possible stories to account for Calibhans absence, but I'm quickly losing heart after reading the last two adventures the THACO groups has had. A cleric would have been so useful. But then I recall how laggy Cali had become and I realized his presence might not have made much of a difference after all.

    Guys, don't hold a spot open for what -might- be. Opportunities to play will be hit or miss if they happen at all. And missing any amount of time is only making the situation worse. If the opportunity comes for you to enlist the service of another, by all means take it. Please.

    I'm not playing that much at all anymore. Not even my alts. There's just no joy lately.

  11. #1851
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe
    If the opportunity comes for you to enlist the service of another, by all means take it. Please.

    I'm not playing that much at all anymore. Not even my alts. There's just no joy lately.
    It is with a heavy heart I see your point. This group is not the same without those who made it what it is today.
    Try not to be too sure you can not rejoin your group. I forsee this Campaign lasting another 5-6 years yet.
    You never know what is coming around the corner!

    Please send me your Character Sheet Information, try to add as much detail as you can.
    I am trying to prepare "cards" for referencing value.

    There may be times that Tukcc and Calibhan will cross paths and Tukcc just might be in need of assistance.
    As far as your lag problem goes, try and determine if the problem is with your ISP as this is the only problem that can not be fixed with new hardware.

    I have considered advertising for another party member, but that character would need to grind and that kinda defeats the purpose of the group.
    I would consider an established character here on Thelanis, but they would have to LR and build their character according to the guidelines we have built.
    The Party will more than likely continue with just five.

    If you intend to maintain Cali "just in case", we will speak more.

  12. #1852
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    Default Proposed guideline on Treasure

    As it stands now, our group depends entirely on Random Treasure.
    No End Rewards of any kind. (Merit awards only)

    Upon encountering any "Chest", a d10 is rolled and, depending on the Quest Level, one successful roll out of two chances allows looting of the Chest by all members.
    For Quests Level 10-14, this is a "1" or "2" on a d10.
    This results in a sparse amount of Magic Items falling into the hands of our adventurers, plus there is NO choices involved. This is by design.
    Additionally, this is not a pleasant "reward" for some......

    In reviewing the "Reward" system that everybody values so much, an idea occures to me.
    Without much added alteration, a method of insuring a MINIMUM reward is possible.
    It would only involve giving "everyone" a chance to roll a "2 or lower", not just 2 players as it is now.
    If anyone rolled a "2 or lower", then the Chest is looted as normal by everyone.
    If not, the chest is looted by just 1 character, (the one with the HIGHEST dice roll), and the contents considered "Party Property".
    Whatever is looted is divided immediately by character purchase or d100 dice roll.

    This system is basically identical, but establishes a minimum based on the number of chests in the Quest.

    As always, we do not use the ML restriction system.

  13. #1853
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    As it stands now, our group depends entirely on Random Treasure.
    No End Rewards of any kind. (Merit awards only)

    Upon encountering any "Chest", a d10 is rolled and, depending on the Quest Level, one successful roll out of two chances allows looting of the Chest by all members.
    For Quests Level 10-14, this is a "1" or "2" on a d10.
    This results in a sparse amount of Magic Items falling into the hands of our adventurers, plus there is NO choices involved. This is by design.
    Additionally, this is not a pleasant "reward" for some......

    In reviewing the "Reward" system that everybody values so much, an idea occures to me.
    Without much added alteration, a method of insuring a MINIMUM reward is possible.
    It would only involve giving "everyone" a chance to roll a "2 or lower", not just 2 players as it is now.
    If anyone rolled a "2 or lower", then the Chest is looted as normal by everyone.
    If not, the chest is looted by just 1 character, (the one with the HIGHEST dice roll), and the contents considered "Party Property".
    Whatever is looted is divided immediately by character purchase or d100 dice roll.

    This system is basically identical, but establishes a minimum based on the number of chests in the Quest.

    As always, we do not use the ML restriction system.

    There are 2 things here.

    First, you are changing the roll process from 2 rolls to 5 rolls. That is a significant boost to the chance of everyone getting loot. I don't like it.
    Second, you are guaranteeing that every chest provides at least 1 magic item. I don't like it.

    The reason I don't like it is because its too much, too fast. As Tukcc has said often, its easy to give people things but hard to take them back. Let's try smaller additions, bit by bit, until we reach a good equilibrium.

    My proposal: how about we keep the current system, and we add to it only a minimum on just the last chest (i.e. the boss chest). That guarantees the party as a whole will have at least 1 magic item from the evening without radically altering our system. We can add little by little each week until Tukcc is satisfied we're at a good point.



    EDIT: I'd also like to point out that smashables have been extraordinarily unfriendly the last few weeks. To the point that it feels something was done by Turbine. Now if that changes again (for the better), and if it turns out we've ramped up the loot rules, we could be swimming in stuff.
    Last edited by Magiker; 01-14-2014 at 11:21 AM.

  14. #1854
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    I'm not playing that much at all anymore. Not even my alts. There's just no joy lately.
    I don't play outside the group either. Also, I gotta tell ya, that if we fill the spot and then you're available but there's no room, well I don't like that thought at all.

  15. #1855
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    Every time I see this, thread title in new posts, I wonder if it is a discussion for quests to run, builds to try, etc. But it is a perma-death guild signup. LOL

    I honestly don't feel the guild rules are D&D on DDO.

    I think, in a much simpler fashion, you can rule to make it pnp viable if you:
    1. Do any given quest 1 time per life, period.
    2. Cannot buy from the ddo store anything except expansions/quests, shared bank, races, classes. Nothing that accelerates the games core mechanics or bypasses them.
    3. 1 shrine per quest to represent a night of sleep.
    4. Coin limits (since they have weight in PnP and not ddo) IIRC, it was 10 coin per pound?
    and if you are wanting to be really hard core:
    5. utilize toolbar slots to represent spells per day.

    Everything else is pen and paper friendly. Raising at level six from some ability? Homebrew. Past lives? Homebrew. Just about everything DDO does that PnP doesn't is very homebrew viable and could become PnP rules. The only mechanic severely OP is spellpoints.

  16. #1856
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Agree, too much loot...

    If there is to be any increase, it should only be a small increase. Increase the chance to 'find' the end encounter chest to say, 50%, only if we had not found anything else.

    The thing is, we are trying to maintain a reduced balance with simple rules with different characters, in a complex game that varies wildly from one quest to another. We have different strengths and weaknesses depending on what we are facing and playing once a week gives us a small sample size. I think I have reward based on class turned off, if everyone has that, does it increase the chance that something I can use will drop in someone else's reward, and be traded to me?

    Cali, your presence ALWAYS made a difference. The rest of us will just have to close ranks and continue, I think the group is too far along for a replacement. I still see and give a shout to Azzlorn when I see him, and I'll do the same for you.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  17. #1857
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    Now I'm a bit confused....

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin
    Every time I see this, thread title in new posts, I wonder if it is a discussion for quests to run, builds to try, etc. But it is a perma-death guild signup. LOL

    I honestly don't feel the guild rules are D&D on DDO.
    This thread is for the group and anyone else who cares to read about what we do. If ideas don't apply, move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin
    I think, in a much simpler fashion, you can rule to make it pnp viable if you:
    1. Do any given quest 1 time per life, period.
    A Quest is only done once, IF it is successful, otherwise a max of 2, maybe 3 if we have party wipes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin
    2. Cannot buy from the ddo store anything except expansions/quests, shared bank, races, classes. Nothing that accelerates the games core mechanics or bypasses them.
    One of our rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin
    3. 1 shrine per quest to represent a night of sleep.
    A Shrine without a manditory 15 minute rest is not a rest, it's a "recharge".

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin
    4. Coin limits (since they have weight in PnP and not ddo) IIRC, it was 10 coin per pound?
    Interesting idea, but not important enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin
    and if you are wanting to be really hard core:
    5. utilize toolbar slots to represent spells per day.
    Un-enforceable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin
    Everything else is pen and paper friendly. Raising at level six from some ability? Homebrew. Past lives? Homebrew. Just about everything DDO does that PnP doesn't is very homebrew viable and could become PnP rules. The only mechanic severely OP is spellpoints.
    Agreed.

    Are you sure you have not mistaken this thread for another one?

  18. #1858
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    Excellent!

    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker
    There are 2 things here.

    First, you are changing the roll process from 2 rolls to 5 rolls. That is a significant boost to the chance of everyone getting loot. I don't like it.
    Second, you are guaranteeing that every chest provides at least 1 magic item. I don't like it.

    The reason I don't like it is because its too much, too fast. As Tukcc has said often, its easy to give people things but hard to take them back. Let's try smaller additions, bit by bit, until we reach a good equilibrium.

    My proposal: how about we keep the current system, and we add to it only a minimum on just the last chest (i.e. the boss chest). That guarantees the party as a whole will have at least 1 magic item from the evening without radically altering our system. We can add little by little each week until Tukcc is satisfied we're at a good point.

    EDIT: I'd also like to point out that smashables have been extraordinarily unfriendly the last few weeks. To the point that it feels something was done by Turbine. Now if that changes again (for the better), and if it turns out we've ramped up the loot rules, we could be swimming in stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5
    If there is to be any increase, it should only be a small increase. Increase the chance to 'find' the end encounter chest to say, 50%, only if we had not found anything else.

    The thing is, we are trying to maintain a reduced balance with simple rules with different characters, in a complex game that varies wildly from one quest to another. We have different strengths and weaknesses depending on what we are facing and playing once a week gives us a small sample size. I think I have reward based on class turned off, if everyone has that, does it increase the chance that something I can use will drop in someone else's reward, and be traded to me?
    This (as always) is a discussion, not a decision.

  19. #1859
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    Default Gamenight!

    The Guild assaulted a Cult that was trying to open a Portal to the Plane of Madness!

    We barely made it into the stronghold ahead of 2 Ancient Iron Monsters that quite probably would have pounded us into jelly!

    But as we found out, that was the EASY part!

    In the beginning, things went in our favor. Our Rogue was late and our Ranger had to exit and guide him to us.
    Inside we began to disable the minor portals and elliminate any of the minions we encountered.
    Then Ktorr cried out "There's something moving around on the floor!....It looks like a kinda Blob!" He couldn't identify it and by the time I moved up to his position, it was gone.

    The things we encountered were tough! We already knew the hounds were a high priority because they could snuff any one of us out in a hurry!
    We were not ready for the poison spell cast by the Apprentices. -8 CON!!?? In THAC0 fashion, the injured sat and rested until their CON was back to at least -2.

    I finally spotted what the Ranger was yelling about....a wierd circular "something" that wandered apparently randomly thru the corridors, and walls!
    Ktorr was the first to be "bumped" into by this thing. For some reason he gained "water breathing". Our Wizard was at a loss to explain, but stated that he had heard of such things and they seem to inflict seemingly random effects. Not all were good. He said they were called "Chaos Orbs".

    Some 15 minutes later, we encountered a group and had our hands full of melee!
    As the last monster fell, I (Tukcc) moved to the side to heal injuries I had sustained and walked right into an orb!
    In a flash, Tukcc was gone. Just a pile of cinders on the floor.

  20. #1860
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    Tukcc, your inbox is full. My PMs are bouncing back.

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