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  1. #1701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    I will take a look at Cogs trapping skills, with a do-over of his Mechanic enhancements, to take Disable off the max, and stop using skill boosts to assist with Disable. We will soon find out what happens with a full party and the scaling we get. *crosses his fingers and takes another pull on the XXX jug-o-courage!*
    Cogs....thanks for keeping an open mind.
    I have just finished looking over mods for Disable and Search, and am beginning to believe the only things needed for a competent Trapper may be just Skills and Feats.
    Enhancements and Magic Items will QUICKLY put you in the 95% success category.

    I would guess a Disarm Skill of ~12-14 would give you about a 60% success rate in 10th Level Quests where the average DC is ~18.
    Assuming of course a perfect world where DC's are static and uniform. (Which we know they are not)

    See what your Disarm is without any Enhancements, just Skills, Ability Mods and Feats.

  2. #1702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    Disable = 20
    Ok, we'll have to see what happens.
    I will keep an eye out for you in the next few days.
    If you can, we will explore "Hiding in Plain Sight".
    Last edited by intruder1; 10-31-2013 at 09:28 PM.

  3. #1703
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    The point is that on Normal, exploding Control boxes just break, but do not do any damage.

    Guys, I have been telling you that Normal is heading for more of a "Classic" environment.
    That is fantastic! Unexpected in a really good way.

    Joe, really sorry to lose you. You're a great teammate and you bring alot to the night's fun. I'll keep my fingers crossed that something works out somehow...

  4. #1704
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default More "Fixing" on Cogoiler's Skills complete.

    I noticed that Cogs had more skill points invested on the Human Enhancement side, and eliminated the Disable/Open lock points there, reinvesting them in Stealth stuff.

    New Primary Rogue Skills List:

    Disable Device = 18 (*Cogs faints in horror!*)

    Hide = 21

    Listen = 21

    Move Silently = 24

    Open Lock = 17 (*Could be better, were it not for XXX jug trembles in fingers*)

    Search = 24

    Spot = 23

    UMD = 15

    I hope this makes things more exciting for everyone. Local tavern owners are dancing on bar tops with joy at Cogoiler's new thousand yard stare and massive increase in ale consumption! This new Cogoiler is going to be more sneaky, hit harder with his Great Crossbow, and comes with a new thrown weapon (Ooze Flask) in his arsenal. Hey! He had to spend the DD and OL points somewhere! *wicked grin at the protesting "no he don't!" intruder.*

    -Sam

  5. #1705
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    This new Cogoiler is going to be more sneaky, hit harder with his Great Crossbow, and comes with a new thrown weapon (Ooze Flask) in his arsenal.
    -Sam
    THAC0 Nerfs coming to your OP Great Crossbow soon!

    You can use a great crossbow, but you are not allowed to be proficient with it. This will give you an x% chance to miss mobs CR x on x difficulty. This is in keeping with good role playing. You should not be guaranteed a hit every time you pull the trigger.

    *melts away into the shadows*

  6. #1706
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Testing... testing....

    *Cogs growls and throws the new Ooze Flask at Fedora!*

  7. #1707
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    *Cogs growls and throws the new Ooze Flask at Fedora!*
    Wow, I think that thing cleared up my sinuses!

  8. #1708
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Testing... new applications...

    "Really?" Cogs peers curiously into the Ooze Flask, sniffing cautiously the pungent aroma. "Maybe watered down a might, this would be drinkable?"

    *edited for content, violence and inappropriate behavior ensued*

  9. #1709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    Disable Device = 18 (*Cogs faints in horror!*)

    Search = 24

    Spot = 23

    -Sam
    Sam, Can you describe the things that make up the 18?
    I assume max Int Modifier, Skill points each level and Skill Focus Feat.

    If what I'm looking at is close to true, an 18, (PLUS NORMAL TOOLS +1) would be a Disable Modifier of +19.
    If a Trap Disarm is ~23 (10th Lvl), that means the following.......
    Dice Roll 1=Pop, (IF) Natural 1 is counted as Crit fail
    Dice Roll 2=Fail, try again
    Dice Roll 3=Fail, try again
    Dice Roll 4=Success!

    This is the way I see the Disarm Equation. If there are other views, be gentle.
    That also equates to a 85% Success rate FOR THIS TRAP ONLY! (Excuse the drama, I don't want to suggest they are ALL like this)
    As time goes on, your Disarm Skills will lag behind the mean value of traps. Your Ability Modifier will not change, nor will you be able to invest more than 1 Skill point per level.
    Feats may become available every few levels.
    Quality Tools are the only thing you have control over. We will consider them if neccessary.

    For the meantime, do not take any Enhancements that affect Disable.
    We already determined that Magic Items that affect Disable AND Search are not to be used.
    Bards and Rangers take note.

  10. #1710
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Sam, Can you describe the things that make up the 18?
    I assume max Int Modifier, Skill points each level and Skill Focus Feat.

    If what I'm looking at is close to true, an 18, (PLUS NORMAL TOOLS +1) would be a Disable Modifier of +19.
    If a Trap Disarm is ~23 (10th Lvl), that means the following.......
    Dice Roll 1=Pop, (IF) Natural 1 is counted as Crit fail
    Dice Roll 2=Fail, try again
    Dice Roll 3=Fail, try again
    Dice Roll 4=Success!

    This is the way I see the Disarm Equation. If there are other views, be gentle.
    That also equates to a 85% Success rate FOR THIS TRAP ONLY! (Excuse the drama, I don't want to suggest they are ALL like this)
    I think you should consider rolls of 2 and 3 in your example to be Successes. So the success rate is closer to 95%, which I think is too high. If you want an 85% success rate, then don't allow "try again". I.E. Each trap gets only 1 Disarm attempt.

    What is the policy on buffing? Seems like we'd be disallowing it for Disarm attempts?
    Last edited by Magiker; 11-01-2013 at 03:21 PM.

  11. #1711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    I think you should consider rolls of 2 and 3 in your example to be Successes. So the success rate is closer to 95%, which I think is too high. If you want an 85% success rate, then don't allow "try again". I.E. Each trap gets only 1 Disarm attempt.

    What is the policy on buffing? Seems like we'd be disallowing it for Disarm attempts?
    I'm working this out with Cogs. A Rogue has a range of results in his "Talent". He Succeeds or Fails, with a "Grey Area" in between.
    If he fails, the trap control merely breaks and the party must find another method to solve.

    Cogs has adjusted his disarm skill as far as is possible without a complete re-roll. That still makes him somewhat competent at current level and will have somewhat of an even chance in the next 5 or 6 levels. Keep in mind, Trap Difficulty is NOT standard, but can (and does) vary from trap to trap, with additional difficulty with increased levels.

    I do not see the value in any other alteration beyond this mechanic.

    Cogoiler is a professional. He strives to excel in his duties and is slowly accepting the concept of allowing "chance" to play an important part of his life.

  12. #1712
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    I think you should consider rolls of 2 and 3 in your example to be Successes. So the success rate is closer to 95%, which I think is too high. If you want an 85% success rate, then don't allow "try again". I.E. Each trap gets only 1 Disarm attempt.

    What is the policy on buffing? Seems like we'd be disallowing it for Disarm attempts?
    Cogoiler will not use Skill Boosts, or accept Buffs to enhance Disable.

    Continued tinkering with Enhancements has him now with a DD of 16. He will get a +1 from Tools, for total of 17.

    I can't get DD any lower.

    Hope this is acceptable.

    -Sam

  13. #1713
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    Cogoiler will not use Skill Boosts, or accept Buffs to enhance Disable.

    Continued tinkering with Enhancements has him now with a DD of 16. He will get a +1 from Tools, for total of 17.

    I can't get DD any lower.

    Hope this is acceptable.

    -Sam
    This "Nerf", as some call it, is neccessary in Normal Difficulty to prevent what is refered to as "Auto-Disable".
    It also allows for more role-playing entertainment by keeping the "Oh Shoot!" factor present.

    The object of this experiment is to try to provide a game that challenges the players.
    We need, and frequently do, alter the guidelines to meet the continuously changing environment Turbine provides us.

    In a well balanced game there should NOT be One shot Kills (Melee nor Spell), nor any ability that would allow 5 characters to take a break while 1 singlehandedly clears Normal Encounters.

    (Having said that, I realize it might happen on RARE instances.)

    THAC0 is going thru another shakeup in personnel and underlying concepts are being questioned. It is becoming evident that some do not (maybe never did) come here to play Classic D&D, but just to get into a decent static group because of the disappointing prospects in DDO pugs.
    I would reiterate that this group formed in order to see if we could create a virtual tabletop game that got back to the basics of a really great and well balanced game system. (IMO)

    DDO is not a balanced game system, but a game trying to capitalize in a financial way in the MMO "frenzy" currently going on.

    I still believe that Turbine is trying to make Normal Difficulty represent "Normal" D&D, while the Harder Difficulties allow the other playstyles to exist.

  14. #1714
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  15. #1715
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Default Thanks for the good time...

    I just wanted to drop a line and let you all know that I have decided to leave the Monday Night group. The decision did not come easily, but I think it will be for the best for group. I have had a great time playing in Intruder's Grand Experiment and I will miss playing with a great group of people. I wish you all good times and continued success in the future.

    After having run every quest more times that I care to count, it is impossible for me to fake a sense of surprised at what comes next. Intruder, thanks for bringing me on board. I know I've been a pain in keister at times, but I hope I've helped you see things in a broader sense of the game.

    When you recruit to replace me, I offer this one piece of advice. Find the Newbiest Newb you can find and do not hesitate to bring them into the fold before they get a clue

    Cheers,

    Aldhur Bronzehands
    Mage and Mensch

  16. #1716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    I just wanted to drop a line and let you all know that I have decided to leave the Monday Night group. The decision did not come easily, but I think it will be for the best for group. I have had a great time playing in Intruder's Grand Experiment and I will miss playing with a great group of people. I wish you all good times and continued success in the future.

    After having run every quest more times that I care to count, it is impossible for me to fake a sense of surprised at what comes next. Intruder, thanks for bringing me on board. I know I've been a pain in keister at times, but I hope I've helped you see things in a broader sense of the game.

    When you recruit to replace me, I offer this one piece of advice. Find the Newbiest Newb you can find and do not hesitate to bring them into the fold before they get a clue

    Cheers,

    Aldhur Bronzehands
    Mage and Mensch
    Best wishes good Dwarf. Your participation will long be remembered.
    It's too bad...it seems by the time a good player finds us, they end up with a situation like you have.
    I know you're participating in other local groups, so keep in touch.

  17. #1717
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    Default Gamenight

    Last night 4 players attempted (yes, I said attempted ) "Partycrashers".
    Even at Normal Difficulty, 50% of the team were rendered unconcious against an illusionary Fire Giant and it's huge pack of Lions!

    We THOUGHT we had it figured out up to that point, but need to rethink our strategy for next week.

    We regrouped and spearheaded a Recon of Sorrowdusk. Our goal was to Explore and bag 100.
    All in all.....an enjoyable evening with good friends.

    Monday Night THAC0 is looking for a good player who wants to have a great time yelling and laughing in an Old Time, Classic sense.
    The newer to DDO, the better. Someone who likes to NOT know what they're up against.
    Free to Play and Premium Players get passes to whatever content we're playing in!

  18. #1718
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Last night 4 players attempted (yes, I said attempted ) "Partycrashers".
    Oh how I hate the Party Crashers chain! I only do it as a "tag along" following others that know what they are doing. Even then they have to drag me kicking and screaming. lol


    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Free to Play and Premium Players get passes to whatever content we're playing in!
    That is mighty nice of you. Good luck in your recruiting!

  19. #1719
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    I just wanted to drop a line and let you all know that I have decided to leave the Monday Night group. The decision did not come easily, but I think it will be for the best for group. I have had a great time playing in Intruder's Grand Experiment and I will miss playing with a great group of people. I wish you all good times and continued success in the future.

    After having run every quest more times that I care to count, it is impossible for me to fake a sense of surprised at what comes next. Intruder, thanks for bringing me on board. I know I've been a pain in keister at times, but I hope I've helped you see things in a broader sense of the game.

    When you recruit to replace me, I offer this one piece of advice. Find the Newbiest Newb you can find and do not hesitate to bring them into the fold before they get a clue

    Cheers,

    Aldhur Bronzehands
    Mage and Mensch
    I am sorry to lose a great "pardner' in this grand D&D adventure. I enjoyed your company, commentary, and kind offers of expert advice. I hope your continued adventures elsewhere are enjoyable, filled with laughter and edge of your seat excitement! May Olladra bless your journey with luck and plenty.

    -Sam

  20. #1720
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Last night 4 players attempted (yes, I said attempted ) "Partycrashers".
    Even at Normal Difficulty, 50% of the team were rendered unconcious against an illusionary Fire Giant and it's huge pack of Lions!

    We THOUGHT we had it figured out up to that point, but need to rethink our strategy for next week.

    We regrouped and spearheaded a Recon of Sorrowdusk. Our goal was to Explore and bag 100.
    All in all.....an enjoyable evening with good friends.

    Monday Night THAC0 is looking for a good player who wants to have a great time yelling and laughing in an Old Time, Classic sense.
    The newer to DDO, the better. Someone who likes to NOT know what they're up against.
    Free to Play and Premium Players get passes to whatever content we're playing in!
    Surely, he did not forget to mention the trap box that blew up and injured, not just poor black-faced Blodhund, but two people standing either side, 20 feet away????!!!! On normal!!!!!! Actually, the damage was minor, ranging 5 - 7 hit points. I can assure you that everyone present did jump in their chairs, while the exclamations of surprise were quite loud and amazingly profane! I will also confess to stooping to sucking beer through a straw for the first time in my 66 years (not all of them as a beer drinker, of course) out of fear that taking a hand from the controls for the time it takes to lift the bottle is the time when disaster will strike!

    Cogs has developed a tactic of using a rapier in main hand, buckler in off hand, simply because he can hide a XXX jug behind the buckler! Waldhorn is quite jealous of the technique, and currently working with a Cannith Crafter to develop hollow bracers to hold his potent Aereni Covadish wines. Draw the bow and take a sip in secret when the bracer is near his lips! Cogoiler considers the concept pure genius, and has plans for a hollow stocked Great Crossbow with portable hole insert to allow for unlimited XXX supply, for emergency use only of course.

    -Sam

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