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  1. #1581
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    I like to see statements like this.....
    I think the inclusion of "The Forgotten Realms" is what has brought the look and feel of D&D back into the game. The wilderness areas are one aspect and the King's Forest, Underdark. etc... Fortunately it has continued with Storm Horns & Wheelon. Some of the new quests have stronger storylines and a few with a nice dungeon crawl feel to them, well done Turbine. I think Eberron allowed to some extent the developers at Turbine to take some liberties away from D&D that caused some of the non-D&D feel (i.e. steam punk, etc...). I know that Wizards of the Coast has a lot of input into keeping Turbine on track in FR as it is the bread & butter of D&D.
    Cool and I look forward to getting into some stronger stories as that quote indicates. What level do you need to be to go there?

    If Eberron is more steampunk like, where are the guns? Why isn't there a "Murder on the Orient Express" type mystery quest? Heck, why can't I ride a train? Granted, Artificers have a very strong steampunk feel, as do all the Iron Defenders kicking around Stormreach. Airships should be more Zeplin like and there should be many more smoke stacks.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  2. #1582
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    Cool and I look forward to getting into some stronger stories as that quote indicates. What level do you need to be to go there?
    tacks.
    The Faerun quests start at L15. Stormhorns is a L19 Explorer area. You need both expansion packs to experience most of the content and have access to the explorer areas.

  3. #1583
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    And I can post again! Thank you, Turbine!

    Fedora & Postumus - best wishes.

    About encumbrance - I think that once you hit the crazy point there isn't much sense in rules. If "20% of max" lets you carry 10+ weapons (etc.) into a dungeon, then you've already crossed the line. If you can't maintain a THAC0 attitude in general, adding rules won't help.

    About quivers - how many are we allowing? I'm not sure why we'd allow more than one, but then try to restrict encumbrance. Seems contrary. I think a limited number of arrows would make their use more tactical, and force players to use other skills.

  4. #1584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    About encumbrance - I think that once you hit the crazy point there isn't much sense in rules. If "20% of max" lets you carry 10+ weapons (etc.) into a dungeon, then you've already crossed the line. If you can't maintain a THAC0 attitude in general, adding rules won't help.
    Encumberence is (mostly) a dead issue. Unless Turbine divides the max load figure by 3, there can be no effect. That being said, the purpose of the 20% is to try to keep SOME control in overloading. The other reason it's 20% is simplicity. I didn't want to suggest 16%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    About quivers - how many are we allowing? I'm not sure why we'd allow more than one, but then try to restrict encumbrance. Seems contrary. I think a limited number of arrows would make their use more tactical, and force players to use other skills.
    1000 arrows/bolts weigh 30lb and takes 10 spaces to carry. a thin quiver with 400 arrows weigh 12 lb and takes no spaces. a second quiver takes 1 space and increases weight by another 12 lb.
    I DO see the futility. Let's leave the quivers at only one. (but of any type, hazzlenut)
    Thanks to Magiker for pointing that out.

  5. #1585
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    Default Claw of Vulkoor--Normal Difficulty (6 went in.....only 1 made it out alive!)

    Spirits were high as we made our way across the "Fens". We had been there before and knew what we faced.
    Our Ranger, Ktorr, led the way. Drawing on his uncanny directional instinct to home in on our goal........Claw Canyon.

    After a couple "re-routes" we arrived at the cave where we were to meet the Priestess Ionna.

    (To be continued .....)
    Last edited by intruder1; 09-20-2013 at 03:49 AM.

  6. #1586
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default The first few encounters...

    THACO has returned the the fire giants caves; this time, more wary and knowledgeable. We defeat the first few giants, avoid the flame jets and collect Ionna. Our ranger who is slightly more sneakey then our rogue is detailed to take the staff and get us by the guardians. I cast heroism, just to ensure our success. I've heard through tavern tales that the guardians are very sensitive but can be gotten by. Well not by us it seems. At each bend, he would disappear only to quickly reappear being pursued by scorpions of all sizes. And Ionna's whispered comment, 'The guardian has noticed you'. Things are progressing at the expense of healing magic and many dead scorpions; I hope Vulkoor is in a good mood today. We come to a door and a lever and lo and behold, behind the door are several fire giants and hounds.

    (To be continued...)


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  7. #1587
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    You can totally avoid the 1 st guardian. Someone with good move silent, hide(+inv+greater heroism?)) and patiience can de-activate the next 3-4 easily. Lots of standing still in a corner and watching the scorpions patrol. The last guardian however takes some thought to de-activate. The scorpions will feel anyone else approach so even with de-activating gaurdians you will still get some pesky beggars popping up to get you.

    The quest on top of the Ziggurat will need everyone to have water breathing or you will drown horribly. There are air pockets so maybe potions will work. Remember spells/scrolls can't be used underwater.
    Just awestruck, wether it be a Dragon flying overhead Stormreach, that glowing character who just zoomed in'n'out of the Pub, or that i can drink a Beholder under the table and best of all rescuing Damsels in distress.

  8. #1588
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDM View Post
    You can totally avoid the 1 st guardian. Someone with good move silent, hide(+inv+greater heroism?)) and patiience can de-activate the next 3-4 easily. Lots of standing still in a corner and watching the scorpions patrol. The last guardian however takes some thought to de-activate. The scorpions will feel anyone else approach so even with de-activating gaurdians you will still get some pesky beggars popping up to get you.

    The quest on top of the Ziggurat will need everyone to have water breathing or you will drown horribly. There are air pockets so maybe potions will work. Remember spells/scrolls can't be used underwater.
    Spoiler alert?

  9. #1589
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    Sorry you've done the quest and i thought you don't repeat Thought it would give you an idea of how well you did.
    Sorry again as i think a quest called Fathom the Depths should have allready been enough of a clue :-)

    P.S. There is a video in this thread way back of me placing(well trying) traps at the last guardian. This was done to show Cogs how to make/place traps.
    Last edited by SlowDM; 09-22-2013 at 12:49 PM.
    Just awestruck, wether it be a Dragon flying overhead Stormreach, that glowing character who just zoomed in'n'out of the Pub, or that i can drink a Beholder under the table and best of all rescuing Damsels in distress.

  10. #1590
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    Spoiler alert?
    We've done them already.

  11. #1591
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    Greetings THAC0 Fellowship.
    My name is Ezeikiel, and I have been tasked by Tukcc to act as a provider of some Magical Items you may require.
    My current inventory is listed below.
    In order to purchase these items, send a mail message to me containing <GEMS> whose total base value meets my price for said item.
    I will return your message with item(s) attached.


    • (2) Cure Moderate Wounds-(Lvl 3)----500
    • (1) Cure Serious Wounds--(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Magic Missle---------(Lvl 3)----500
    • (2) Resist Energy--------(Lvl 3)----300
    • (2) Web------------------(Lvl 3)----500
    • (1) Remove Curse---------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Blur-----------------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (2) Lightning Bolt-------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (3) Fireball-------------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Stoneskin------------(Lvl 7)---2500
    • (1) Magic Missle---------(Lvl 7)---2500
    • (1) Charm Monster--------(Lvl 7)---2500


    • (600) +1 Arrows 40 per 100
    • (1000) +1 Bolts 40 per 100
    • (100) +1 Throwing Daggers 20 per 50
    • (100) +1 Darts 20 per 50
    • (100) +1 Throwing Axes 20 per 50
    • (20) +3 Silver Bolts 150
    • (20) +1 Silver Throwing Hammers 20
    • (20) +2 Silver Throwing Darts 70
    • (20) +3 Silver Arrows 150

  12. #1592
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    Relating to a short discussion last night with members of the Wednesday Night group, it was my opinion that the current enhancement
    trees more closely related to "Building" than Classic 2nd Edition role-playing. Since this group IS about 2nd Edition, I will use this as a comparison in gameplay.

    While I can not speak for the members of the group, I have reverted both my characters to "Race Only" Enhancements, EXCEPT if one of those enhancements opened up a tree on it's own.
    In Tukcc's case it was the Arcane Archer Tree, and I have elected not to use it until further examination.
    The Stalward Defender tree was usable, but I don't feel I've lost anything worthwhile.

    Manatarms used only some of the Spellslinger enhancements and they too were not missed since he is a "Professional Hirling" type of character rather than what you'd consider a "Bard".

    I can tell you that only using the Racial Tree created unique characters that would strikingly stand apart from other characters.

  13. #1593
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post

    I can tell you that only using the Racial Tree created unique characters that would strikingly stand apart from other characters.
    While I can understand the "want" to come closer to a 2nd Ed. ruleset, this will effectively reduce the ability to make your character unique, not enhance the ability within our DDO home. You all know how much I love the 2nd Ed rules, but the absolute worst part of 2ED was the lack of customization with character generation. ALL uniqueness was "Roleplay" based and while that works great in a PnP environment, it doesn't work in the DDO system unless you are playing a pure RP game.

    We are beholden to the DDO game mechanics. If you elect to remove using enhancements, you might as well also remove using feats, or anything that makes fighter A different from fighter B. Every part of gameplay within DDO assumes you are leveling using the character progression system it has given you to use. The higher level you get , the more apparent this becomes. My guess is that if this rule is adopted, the groups will be unable to complete any quest above lvl14 at even Normal difficulty without serious casualty rates. This will further separate out those who have chosen character classes that are free feat heavy from those who are feat starved.

    My opinion is that this would not enhance gameplay in any way. At higher levels, I believe it would even make it no longer fun.

    Aldhur
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    My opinion is that this would not enhance gameplay in any way. At higher levels, I believe it would even make it no longer fun.
    While I think this is true, its also true that we may not be able to maintain sufficient challenge on normal unless we deliberately debuff our characters. If we feel the need to progress through the enhancement trees, it may force us back to a Hard difficulty setting.

  15. #1595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    If you elect to remove using enhancements, you might as well also remove using feats, or anything that makes fighter A different from fighter B.

    My guess is that if this rule is adopted, the groups will be unable to complete any quest above lvl14 at even Normal difficulty without serious casualty rates. This will further separate out those who have chosen character classes that are free feat heavy from those who are feat starved.
    I have done this for my own curiosity, it is not a suggestion for our playstyle.
    If our adventures see Tukcc as a hinderence, my idea will prove to be in error.
    If our adventures see one or more characters excelling to the point they are tough to beat, it will prove the opposite.

    This is what I wish to observe about our playstyle.

    This group is about experimenting, but "fun" will always be the focus also.

  16. #1596
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    I have done this for my own curiosity, it is not a suggestion for our playstyle.
    If our adventures see Tukcc as a hinderence, my idea will prove to be in error.
    If our adventures see one or more characters excelling to the point they are tough to beat, it will prove the opposite.

    This is what I wish to observe about our playstyle.

    This group is about experimenting, but "fun" will always be the focus also.
    Fair enough. I just wanted to bring to light the point that the classes/races are less balanced when stripped of enhancements.

    But I do think that if you wish to get a sample of the effect, it should probably be an everybody thing. I wouldn't like it, but I'd go along for ther sake of testing.

  17. #1597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    Fair enough. I just wanted to bring to light the point that the classes/races are less balanced when stripped of enhancements.

    But I do think that if you wish to get a sample of the effect, it should probably be an everybody thing. I wouldn't like it, but I'd go along for ther sake of testing.
    I thought that might be the concensous, but as enhancements can be changed at any time, I would like to see the difference so it is up to the individual .

    The Wizard Class is already of prime interest as his Primary Stat has been Maxed for quite a long time. I want to see what he evolves into.

  18. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    I just wanted to bring to light the point that the classes/races are less balanced when stripped of enhancements.
    Can't resist saying that this very statement was posted last year about our lack of magic items.

  19. #1599
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    I have done this for my own curiosity, it is not a suggestion for our playstyle.
    If our adventures see Tukcc as a hinderence, my idea will prove to be in error.
    If our adventures see one or more characters excelling to the point they are tough to beat, it will prove the opposite.

    This is what I wish to observe about our playstyle.

    This group is about experimenting, but "fun" will always be the focus also.
    I'm running a similar experiment with Vi. I'm intentionally restricting her to the racial tree and one enhancement tree. Going pure racial would disrupt that experiment. My thought is that this will make for a strength in one area by sacrificing strength in another area.

    Another experiment would be to see how it works if you spread the enhancement points across many tree.

    I don't think we can know what happens until we can open up the top tier enhancements. If you go with one tree (racial or class), you should get those top abilities faster. Split them and it takes longer. Spread them and you never open up those top enhancements. How does that affect characters at the end? Does it give more flexibility, does it make it too complicated? Does it weaken them to the point that we can't complete level 20 quests?
    Last edited by Hazelnut; 09-27-2013 at 06:25 PM.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

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    If you go with one tree (racial or class), you should get those top abilities faster.
    Not necessarily faster because you are limited to how many AP's you get per level and top tier enhancements take ~40 [IIRC]. But you will get most of - if not all - that tree by level 10.

    Split them and it takes longer.
    It will take longer to get higher into the tree and be less likely to fill out the tree.

    Spread them and you never open up those top enhancements.
    True

    How does that affect characters at the end?
    Does it give more flexibility, does it make it too complicated?
    Does it weaken them to the point that we can't complete level 20 quests?


    Most definitely it will add flexibility. This is the main reason that I personally love to multiclass.
    It is only as complicated as you make it. Once you understand how the various trees can interact and enhance each other, it becomes almost an art.
    It can only weaken a character if you choose unwisely. Like any other kind of system that uses various parts to make up a sum, if you use parts that are redundant or detrimental to each other your final gestalt will not be as strong as when you add complementary parts that work together. Then the sum is greater than the total of the parts. A true gestalt.

    Tukcc I'm going to do something unprecedented and "call you out" on this. Way back when, you stated that one of the ideas of stripping away the Monty Haul overpoweredness of all that magic was to allow the CHARACTERS to shine with their abilities and the PLAYERS to develop their playmanship. Feats and enhancements do just that. Enhancements aren't just "magic" items wrapped in a different box, they are an extension of a characters ability to learn new moves, new methods, new knowledge of the gestalt that is their "profession". A rogue who wishes to learn more about the methodology of Assassination learns about applying poisons to his weapons, learns about how to make his light arms more deadly in combat, how to hit more accurately and with more damage etc. etc.

    A character who has taken multiple classes is not trying to be a master of all. He/she will not achieve that. They instead are creating their own "unique" profession. I will use Vinnie as an example. She was constantly referred to as a pogue or half rogue half paladin. She was none of these. She was her own unique "Class". A Vigilante. From 3.5 edition. She started her "career" in training to become a Paladin. She was brutally raped, beaten and left for dead by the corrupt son of a corrupt official of Stormreach. After being denied justice and excommunicated by the church she started training in rogue and ranger abilities. She used select enhancements from certain trees within each of those classes to [I know you loathe this word] "build" her own abilities, her own class tree. There were many enhancements from those trees that had no meaning to her or did not fulfill her desire to become a holy avenger that relied on stealth, agility and two handed brutal, vicious tactics to slay those she deemed evil. If I had limited her to one tree or even stripped her of all class trees, she would not have been Vinagarune - Vigilante of Storm. She would have been a mediocre halfling multiclass that had some feats and abilities related to other professions.

    I know that you are not advocating that anyone adopt this as a guideline for their characters. I also know that you know that most of us [especially ME ;p] would not touch this with a ten foot pole. I will just say that, I'm sure back in the day when you played PnP you tried to introduce certain unique skills or abilities or tricks or whatever you called'em to you characters to make them different than the other run of the mill characters that could be rolled up just like them. It was always the desire to make your character unique, special in some way, and more "real". That to me is what "building" in DDO gives. I don't need or want a min/maxed uber character. I want a character that has history, versatility, uniqueness. Not another "squishy" halfling rogue assassin with high DEX and Evasion.

    Exit soapbox left.

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