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  1. #1541
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    each potion is in a 1 oz glass bottle; how many 1 oz bottles can you carry in a pack and cargo belt? 10 - 12? 16 oz equals 1 pint - not much liquid true - but that's also 16 glass bottles clinking around.
    Realistically, how many glass bottles would survive if you went hiking in the mountains or playing tag in the park with your friends? Probably zero. I rather think of the potions as being carried in a wine skin of old. One skin for each type you have, thus the idea of "stacking" potions. Whether you have 1oz or 100 oz they all fit in that 100oz capacity wine skin. When you need to heal, you take a swallow (1 shot) or a long gulp (multiple shots hence it takes longer). If you have a lot of different potions, then reality gets stretched farther, though you could perhaps imagine if you had 10 different potions, but none stacked more than 12 deep, you have 10 12oz skins or whatever.

    Now speaking of reality, have any of you ever worked in the trades (carpentry, electrical, plumbing, etc) and had to wear steel toed work boots, a tool belt, leather gloves, and a hard hat all day? I have (was an electrician for 12 years) and let me tell you, I am not going to walk 5 miles through the forest, run from a pack of wolves, and then get in a fight at the local tavern wearing all that. Now add to that a heavy winter coat, a backpack with a mild load of 30lbs of gear, while carrying a big baseball bat and a garbage can lid.

    Closest to reality might be our soldiers that go to battle. They might carry (generally speaking) a rifle with spare ammo, a 60lb pack that includes a 2-4 liter water bladder (water weighs 8lbs per gallon), wear a flak vest, helmet, a bowie knife, and combat boots. That's a mighty heavy load but does not even come close to approaching DDO loads.


    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    DDO style leads to envy, envy leads to overpowering, overpowering leads to boredom, boredom leads to naked bungie jumping with Charlie Sheen; don't...
    To each their own. As I have yet to "cap" or "TR" a character I have yet to become bored with "DDO style".

  2. #1542
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Closest to reality might be our soldiers that go to battle. They might carry (generally speaking) a rifle with spare ammo, a 60lb pack that includes a 2-4 liter water bladder (water weighs 8lbs per gallon), wear a flak vest, helmet, a bowie knife, and combat boots. That's a mighty heavy load but does not even come close to approaching DDO loads.
    Careful of what you point out, or we might end up having to carry around 10lbs of rations and water.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  3. #1543
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    FYI if you let players delete their characters rather than kick them from the guild you won't lose any renown. LOL.

    Note: Inactive accounts do not hurt your guild renown production or decay. However recent departures do. Thus booting inactive accounts actually hurts your guilds overall renown production. As your modified account size will go up by one for 2 weeks after the last character from that account is removed from the guild. You'll also lose 25% of the renown that character gained while a member of the guild.
    Last edited by Postumus; 09-07-2013 at 07:33 PM.

  4. #1544
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default SO lets see..

    Skin of Fire Resist potion - 16 oz. "Pint sized" [so that's where that came from ]
    Skin of Cold Resist potion - pint
    Skin of Acid Resist potion - pint
    Ditto Electric - pint
    Ditto Sonic - pint
    Ditto CLW potion - pint

    etc.etc. LOL that's alot of pints. No wonder Cogs sloshes when he sneaks! Only HE thinks corn likker can take the place of just about any potion - so having six to ten pints is only "loshical" <hic>.

    I just keep'em all under 10. If I have that many stored up. Seem's like with arcanes or divines in the group plus just not giving a hoot, I hardly use many potions anyway.

  5. #1545
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    FYI if you let players delete their characters rather than kick them from the guild you won't lose any renown. LOL.
    The guild only loses 10% of that characters contribution if he elects to leave on good terms. Booting or leaving on bad terms (it asks you when you quit) costs 25%.

    I figured leaving on good terms was no big deal, the level of THACO doesn't really matter since there are no ship buffs. It's just a private tavern with a community chest.

  6. #1546
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Default Dungeon Siege

    Anyone else ever play it?

    Although a single player game (similar to Diablo) one of the things I really liked was the ability to purchase a pack mule (as in "hee haw hee haw") that followed your party around. It had about 3 times the carrying capacity of a regular character, and had health (hit points) and if attacked would either run a short distance away or fight back with kick/bite if cornered.

    Something like that would be cool in DDO, except it would obviously have a hard time with ladders.

  7. #1547
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    The dark side is easier, more seductive, but once down that path - forever will it dominate you.

    DDO style leads to envy, envy leads to overpowering, overpowering leads to boredom, boredom leads to naked bungie jumping with Charlie Sheen; don't...
    Meezza lika-dise!

  8. #1548
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    FYI if you let players delete their characters rather than kick them from the guild you won't lose any renown. LOL.
    I'm sorry man!
    I was looking in after a long 12 hour shuttle run.
    Was exhausted. No ill feelings?

  9. #1549
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    Default Encumberence

    Did some research, then consulted the "Books".
    It seems I was wrong about any changes in DDO weight limits. I was looking at a Halflings Carrying Cap and was not aware of the 3/4 rule.

    Also, getting some real numbers pointed out another mistake. DDO Encumberence Max's are about 3 times that of 2nd Edition AND 3.5.
    Also, a normal adventurer wouldn't dress so "light". He would in fact dress more towards "Moderate", than "Light".
    Referring to the numbers, this actually is closer to 22% of Max. Note 22% is a "Cap" for Moderate Encumberence.

    If Turbine divided the Max Load figure by 3, the Encumberence System would take affect!
    (Stomp! Stomp!) (But only on Normal because regular DDO players couldn't Gear correctly nor would they stand for it)

    I suggest, in the meantime, THAC0 adopt a 20% of Max Load figure for Pre-Adventuring Limitation.
    That, mixed with the 10% rule for Treasure would effectively represent our "Magic Item Restriction".
    Last edited by intruder1; 09-08-2013 at 07:22 AM.

  10. #1550
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    Below is what information I could glean from the WIKI.........

    ===Encumberence===
    All items in DDO have weight. The amount of weight a character can hold at maximum is represented by a bar at the bottom of the inventory screen labeled Load. As the bar slowly fills from Load: Light to Load: Medium, and Load: Heavy the character's speed and ability to perform certain actions is hindered.

    The amount a player can carry (weight wise) is governed by his strength, and race (halflings have 3/4 the maximum carrying capacity of other races with the same strength). The higher his strength, the more a character can carry. Note this is not strength modifier, so increasing your strength to an odd number does increase your carrying capacity even though your strength modifier remains the same.

    ===Definition of "LOAD"===
    • Load: Light (0% to 33.33% load) You incur no penalties.
    • Load: Medium (33.34% to 66.66% load) Reduces run speed by 5%
      Caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 3
      Gives you a -3 armor check penalty
      Monk characters become uncentered.
    • Load: Heavy (66.67% to 100% load) Reduces Run speed by 12%
      Caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 1
      Gives you a -6 armor check penalty
      You are given the Burdened status ("You're burdened.").
    • Load: Other (more than 100% load) Reduces Run speed by 31%
      Caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 1
      Gives you a -6 armor check penalty.
      You are given the Overloaded status ("You're overloaded!").




    ===Movement===
    Being Burdened is when your carrying capacity reaches Load: Heavy (66.67% to 100% load).
    This reduces your run speed by 11.8%, caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 1, and gives you a -6 armor check penalty.
    You are given the Burdened status ("You're burdened.").


    ===Carrying capacity===
    Carrying capacity: reduces speed when you are weighed-down:
    • Load: Light (0% to 33.33% load): no penalty.
    • Load: Medium (33.34% to 66.66% load): -4.3%.
    • Load: Heavy (66.67% to 100% load): -11.8%.
    • Load: Other (more than 100% load): -30.8%.


    Carrying capacity also can cause an Armor check penalty.
    • Medium encumbrance causes a -3
    • Heavy encumbrance causes a -6


    Note that medium encumbrance does not give any visual feedback, except that you run slightly slower. This may lead to unexpected deaths while swimming.

    ===Armor check penalty===
    Armor check penalty (ACP) is a penalty to some skills due to the restrictiveness of certain armors and shields.

    The following are subject to Armor check penalty:
    • Balance
    • Hide
    • Jump
    • Move Silently
    • Swim is subject to double the standard Armor check penalty
    • Tumble



    Armor check penalties from armors and shields stack.

    ACPs always apply to your skills. Non-proficiency with an armor or shield causes its Armor check penalty to apply to your attack rolls as well.

    Oh come on! We NEED this on Normal for Classic D&D!
    Last edited by intruder1; 09-08-2013 at 07:27 AM.

  11. #1551
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Did some research, then consulted the "Books".
    It seems I was wrong about any changes in DDO weight limits. I was looking at a Halflings Carrying Cap and was not aware of the 3/4 rule.

    Also, getting some real numbers pointed out another mistake. DDO Encumberence Max's are about 3 times that of 2nd Edition AND 3.5.
    Also, a normal adventurer wouldn't dress so "light". He would in fact dress more towards "Moderate", than "Light".
    Referring to the numbers, this actually is closer to 22% of Max. Note 22% is a "Cap" for Moderate Encumberence.

    If Turbine divided the Max Load figure by 3, the Encumberence System would take affect!
    (Stomp! Stomp!) (But only on Normal because regular DDO players couldn't Gear correctly nor would they stand for it)
    I am having trouble understanding what you are saying above. Possibly I have not had enough coffee yet on this sunny Sunday.

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    I suggest, in the meantime, THAC0 adopt a 20% of Max Load figure for Pre-Adventuring Limitation.
    That, mixed with the 10% rule for Treasure would effectively represent our "Magic Item Restriction".
    Okay, the above makes sense and keeps me happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Below is what information I could glean from the WIKI.........

    ===Encumberence===
    All items in DDO have weight. The amount of weight a character can hold at maximum is represented by a bar at the bottom of the inventory screen labeled Load. As the bar slowly fills from Load: Light to Load: Medium, and Load: Heavy the character's speed and ability to perform certain actions is hindered.

    The amount a player can carry (weight wise) is governed by his strength, and race (halflings have 3/4 the maximum carrying capacity of other races with the same strength). The higher his strength, the more a character can carry. Note this is not strength modifier, so increasing your strength to an odd number does increase your carrying capacity even though your strength modifier remains the same.

    ===Definition of "LOAD"===
    • Load: Light (0% to 33.33% load) You incur no penalties.
    • Load: Medium (33.34% to 66.66% load) Reduces run speed by 5%
      Caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 3
      Gives you a -3 armor check penalty
      Monk characters become uncentered.
    • Load: Heavy (66.67% to 100% load) Reduces Run speed by 12%
      Caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 1
      Gives you a -6 armor check penalty
      You are given the Burdened status ("You're burdened.").
    • Load: Other (more than 100% load) Reduces Run speed by 31%
      Caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 1
      Gives you a -6 armor check penalty.
      You are given the Overloaded status ("You're overloaded!").




    ===Movement===
    Being Burdened is when your carrying capacity reaches Load: Heavy (66.67% to 100% load).
    This reduces your run speed by 11.8%, caps your maximum dexterity bonus at 1, and gives you a -6 armor check penalty.
    You are given the Burdened status ("You're burdened.").


    ===Carrying capacity===
    Carrying capacity: reduces speed when you are weighed-down:
    • Load: Light (0% to 33.33% load): no penalty.
    • Load: Medium (33.34% to 66.66% load): -4.3%.
    • Load: Heavy (66.67% to 100% load): -11.8%.
    • Load: Other (more than 100% load): -30.8%.


    Carrying capacity also can cause an Armor check penalty.
    • Medium encumbrance causes a -3
    • Heavy encumbrance causes a -6


    Note that medium encumbrance does not give any visual feedback, except that you run slightly slower. This may lead to unexpected deaths while swimming.

    ===Armor check penalty===
    Armor check penalty (ACP) is a penalty to some skills due to the restrictiveness of certain armors and shields.

    The following are subject to Armor check penalty:
    • Balance
    • Hide
    • Jump
    • Move Silently
    • Swim is subject to double the standard Armor check penalty
    • Tumble



    Armor check penalties from armors and shields stack.

    ACPs always apply to your skills. Non-proficiency with an armor or shield causes its Armor check penalty to apply to your attack rolls as well.
    Minor inconsistency above. Is it 11.8% penalty or 12% penalty at Load:Heavy?

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Oh come on! We NEED this on Normal for Classic D&D!
    Sorry you lost me with this statement. It probably doesn't matter.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  12. #1552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    I am having trouble understanding what you are saying above. Possibly I have not had enough coffee yet on this sunny Sunday.
    If the Max Load were divided by 3, it would be similar to the PHB.
    (This statement is intended for Turbine.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    Minor inconsistency above. Is it 11.8% penalty or 12% penalty at Load:Heavy?
    Yer kidding, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    Sorry you lost me with this statement. It probably doesn't matter.
    20% of Max Load at the start of an adventure keeps you in line with PnP Encumberence by making sure you don't walk in with 3 sets of Armor and a dozen different Weapons.
    (You can't take advantage of DDO's Encumberence system to keep an arsenal in your backpack.)

    20% does nothing in a DDO world, because the penalties don't even start until after 1/3 of Max Load.

  13. #1553
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Yer kidding, right?
    It really is inconsistent. BUT, I don't really care. I did find it amusing that the ddowiki fact checkers haven't corrected it, though. So, if by "kidding" you mean I was pointing it out just to be silly, then ya, I was kidding.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  14. #1554
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    20% of Max Load at the start of an adventure keeps you in line with PnP Encumberence by making sure you don't walk in with 3 sets of Armor and a dozen different Weapons.
    (You can't take advantage of DDO's Encumberence system to keep an arsenal in your backpack.)
    I am sooooo going to try and make leather armor, robes, and an outfit along with 12 of the lightest weapons I can find fit within the 20% limit.

    Seriously, I think 20% is a good compromise between DDO, reality, and good old PnP D&D.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  15. #1555
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    Many thanks to the Monday Night THAC0 group for assisting in an experiment in Encumberence.
    Each character carried several 50LB weights in order to bring them to "Moderate Load" Status, then adventured in this condition.
    My character added additional weights until he was "Burdened" in order to compare.

    The most common complaint was the visible reduction in movement speed.
    Rangers encountered an inability to "Tumble", and most everybody experienced a decline in their ability to Jump.
    My character, being Burdened", found it hard to fight. (Noticable slowdown in attack speed)

    All in all, a good experiment, but after discussing it after the adventure, it seemed to much effort for only a portion of the actual Encumberence effect.
    They could offset their load weight to a point where the effects would begin, but thereafter it would be too far for anyone in our playstyle to get to "Burdened".

    Maybe if an Encumberence system were to be enabled in Normal Difficulty, the complete effect would be visible.

    One comment from last night was "It (Encumberence) is to much of a penalty to be useful."
    But I say, "Using a Ranger as an example, He is, by definition, a Light Fighter. He must always equip LIGHT in order to use his Class abilities."
    "How can you expect him to perform if his backpack were stuffed with heavy Treasure, Gems and Coin."

    I still believe Encumberence is a staple to Classic D&D.
    Last edited by intruder1; 09-10-2013 at 05:45 PM.

  16. #1556
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Equipping Rangers "light"...

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    .......

    ...... One comment from last night was "It (Encumberence) is to much of a penalty to be useful."
    But I say, "Using a Ranger as an example, He is, by definition, a Light Fighter. He must always equip LIGHT in order to use his Class abilities."
    "How can you expect him to perform if his backpack were stuffed with heavy Treasure, Gems and Coin."

    I still believe Encumberence is a staple to Classic D&D.
    Notes and observations:

    1. If I recall correctly (not in game at present) The Monday night Elf Ranger Waldhorn has a 10% starting load of about 144 pounds, and is only carrying a total of about 77 pounds. This total includes his leather armor, cloak, bracers, gloves, ring, two mace type weapons, two slashing weapons, a composite bow, 400 arrow quiver, and 400 extra arrows in the pack. I think he has a few odd breakable type potions, but not many.

    2. When we tested the Medium (Heavy Armor Plate X 7!!!!) encumbrance, Waldhorn lost his ability to tumble, both his melee and ranged attacks were noticeably slowed. Standard run speed and his enhanced sneak speed were almost identical! Run should have been twice as fast, or better.

    3. It was suggested that we attempt to work from a single backpack, ignoring the rest that we may have available. I rather like the idea and will see how that works. I will point out that even the original D&D 2.0 had "Bags of Holding" and "Black Hole" constructs thatallowed for carrying outsized and weighty loads by even those lacking in muscle to carry standard camping gear!

    -Sam

  17. #1557
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    I still believe Encumberence is a staple to Classic D&D.
    The experiment intrigued me so I did a bit more reading. I actually found and downloaded the D&D 3.5 PHB and read the encumbrance section. Turns out, there are actually choices in how you apply encumbrance in your game in the PnP version.

    Max Dex, Arcane Spell Failure, and check penalty numbers on armor and shields are the default encumbrance tool. Optionally, you can substitute the load system as a replacement. It seams DDO has chosen (currently) to not include the optional component (see pg 161, paragraph starting "Weight").

    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    Notes and observations:

    1. If I recall correctly (not in game at present) The Monday night Elf Ranger Waldhorn has a 10% starting load of about 144 pounds, and is only carrying a total of about 77 pounds. This total includes his leather armor, cloak, bracers, gloves, ring, two mace type weapons, two slashing weapons, a composite bow, 400 arrow quiver, and 400 extra arrows in the pack. I think he has a few odd breakable type potions, but not many.

    2. When we tested the Medium (Heavy Armor Plate X 7!!!!) encumbrance, Waldhorn lost his ability to tumble, both his melee and ranged attacks were noticeably slowed. Standard run speed and his enhanced sneak speed were almost identical! Run should have been twice as fast, or better.

    3. It was suggested that we attempt to work from a single backpack, ignoring the rest that we may have available. I rather like the idea and will see how that works. I will point out that even the original D&D 2.0 had "Bags of Holding" and "Black Hole" constructs thatallowed for carrying outsized and weighty loads by even those lacking in muscle to carry standard camping gear!

    -Sam
    Hazelnut (from Monday) with everything I want her to carry while starting a quest comes in at 48lbs with our old 10% rule giving a maximum of 65lbs, so I actually have a bit over 15lbs that I could add (more than enough to carry around an extra set of light armor).

    Now, just to make a point. Using the D&D 3.5 rules, take a Halfling Ranger with Hazelnut's stats (STR 14 being the big deal)...

    Standard light load of STR 14 is 58lbs. Halflings get 2/3 that value, so keep it under 38.6 lbs and this ranger remains light loaded. Halfling armor and weapons are 1/2 the weight of normal armor and weapons, so Here is 12 weapons and 3 changes of clothing (1 armor, 2 clothing) using DDO weighting (standard, not halfling):
    WT ITEM
    ===== =======================
    1lbs dagger (P)
    1lbs dagger (P) (silver)
    2lbs kukri (S)
    2lbs rapier (P) (firetouch, coldtouch, or lightening)
    2lbs rapier (P) (bleeding)
    2lbs rapier (P) (ghostbane)
    3lbs Club (B)

    3lbs longbow
    11lbs arrows & Quiver (100 returning arrows and 1 quiver)
    5lbs Throwing Axe (S)
    1lbs Throwing Dagger (P)
    2lbs Throwing Hammer (B)
    ------
    35lbs

    15lbs Leather Armor
    0lbs Robe (haggle or charisma)
    0lbs Outfit (ghost protection)
    ------
    15lbs
    =====
    50lbs
    *0.5 for halfling equipment
    =25lbs

    Still well under the light load with more than 10 lbs to spare.

    Hazelnut is being built as an Arcane Archer with DEX based TWF for melee, so the above fits pretty well with my character plan.

    In other words, even a well equipped ranger would fall into the light load category.
    Last edited by Hazelnut; 09-11-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    Still well under the light load with more than 10 lbs to spare.

    Hazelnut is being built as an Arcane Archer with DEX based TWF for melee, so the above fits pretty well with my character plan.

    In other words, even a well equipped ranger would fall into the light load category.
    Nicely done. I want to read more about what you have found.

    Question: Has Vio actually FOUND all of these things in our Quests, or is this a nice "Wish" list?
    In an ideal world (Ebberon), your theory is quite right, but when you give yourself to chance (1st Ed Classic), you might not attain everything you wish for.
    Jus sayin'....
    Last edited by intruder1; 09-12-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  19. #1559
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Nicely done. I want to read more about what you have found.

    Question: Has Vio actually FOUND all of these things in our Quests, or is this a nice "Wish" list?
    In an ideal world (Ebberon), your theory is quite right, but when you give yourself to chance (1st Ed Classic), you might not attain everything you wish for.
    Jus sayin'....
    Ideal wish list. BUT, you get to choose some starter equipment and could buy some things with your treasure. Granted maybe not the magic stuff, but sliver and mastercraft aren't supposed to magical.

    Oh, and when I played PnP, we would use a player's desire or item X as a starting point for a quest. So, as far as I'm concerned having the equipment you want is part of the classic game. Not that THAC0 plays that way.

    Read the sections on Halflings, weapons, armor, and load. Read the intro sections carefully since a lot of the rules and options are in there.
    Last edited by Hazelnut; 09-12-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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  20. #1560
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    Notes and observations:

    3. It was suggested that we attempt to work from a single backpack, ignoring the rest that we may have available. I rather like the idea and will see how that works. I will point out that even the original D&D 2.0 had "Bags of Holding" and "Black Hole" constructs thatallowed for carrying outsized and weighty loads by even those lacking in muscle to carry standard camping gear!

    -Sam
    Actually, 1st Ed even had both items also. My comment that night about the backpack issue was my attempt to solve this almost silly obsession with Encumberence rules. Plain and simple, DDO (and maybe most MMO's) provide way too much storage space that it makes everyone a clinical Hoarder in game.

    My take on Encumberance is that it almost brings too much reality to my fantasy. While it's fun to debate, it can be a downer on game play, hence why DDO plays very fast and loose with the rules.

    As an Army Mountaineer and Mortar Maggot, I carried with me, at all times of combat readyness, over 125 lbs of gear. I am not a big guy nor particularly strong, yet I humped that **** everywhere with me because it had too. Anyone can do it if you learn how. Please don't confuse Encumberence with STR capacity. They are two very different things. DnD rules made that mistake from 1st ED on up.

    That being said, every player should be afforded the chance to wear one set of armor, carry up to 3 weapons, and wear a stuffed backpack in order to fulfill their destiny as a hero, no matter how strong they are. If I could do it in reality with no issues, any Hero in a fantasy world should be able to do it with their eyes closed. Just my two plats.

    Aldhur, Mage and Mensch

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