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  1. #1441
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    LOL!!

    Guys, I don't mean to make it look like I critisize your "other" playstyle.
    To "me", there is Classic D&D and there is "everyone else".
    It is not personal, I just have no use for any other playstyle.

    Wait... I thought we were using 99% of your THACO rules in STORM? The primary exceptions being the other THACO groups now roll on chests, have no ML restrictions for gear, and have med fort 'admin items.'


    There are a couple of other minor discrepancies - MON and WED THACO can purchase wands and consumables, while STORM has to turn in collectibles for these types of items. But other than that, and the philosophical difference that running two modules with the possibility of receiving nothing as a reward is nothing like any PnP I've ever experienced, I thought we were all under the THACO umbrella.


    Now you lump STORM in with 'everyone else?' I don't think you realize how some of your posts come across. If you don't like STORM's loot rules, and if you want us to be exactly like MON and WED just say so. But the little quips and judgements about how we are playing, what classes we are playing, what difficulty we are playing is getting old.


    I honestly don't care if STORM changes the last 1% of its rules to be like MON and WED in every way except difficulty level (because playing on normal difficulty is about as challenging as playing on casual to me).

  2. #1442
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    What changed about the Toughness feat?
    The feat didn't really change, but the usefulness of it did since they eliminated many (most?) of the toughness enhancements from class and racial trees.

  3. #1443
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Default Jedial the Paladin - Post Enhancement Pass

    Since these changes affect all of THAC0, I am posting Jedial's changes here. I did NOT use the +20 Heart (yet), although it appears that would/will be the only way to get back the most useful enhancement that was lost - Undying Call.

    I'll start with what I consider the "bad" changes:

    • NO MORE UNDYING CALL. From what I understand, there is a feat required or deity choice you need to make when starting a Paladin (or Cleric or any divine) that would unlock this enhancement. It does not even appear in any of the racial (half elf) or Class trees. No more raise dead guys, sorry.


    • Lost Divine Might. Not enough points after choosing other things, also with my 15 CHA it went from +2 damage to +1 hit and +1 damage under the new system.


    • My first racial core enhancement is worthless, since I do not have either point blank shot or sneak attack. A waste of 1 AP.


    • Lost 1 Lay on Hands. Now I have 1 instead of 2. Not enough AP to build up both class trees AND racial tree, so had to save that for later.


    • I used to have Human Adaptability that gave me a choice of bonuses. I could use Attack, Armor Class, Damage, Saves or Skills. I now only have the Damage Boost, although it is the second tier.


    Now for the Good:

    • I gained Divine Sacrifice. I can sacrifice 1 SP and 5HP to do an extra 7d6 light damage. I lose the SP/HP whether I score a hit or not.


    • Hunter of the Dead improvement. Essentially got an extra 1d6 damage to undead.


    • Turn undead looks more powerful. They kind of combined it with divine light so you know how much damage you do with your turns. I can now hit undead for 12d6 light damage on a turn attempt.


    • I gained a Paladin Damage Boost 5/rest.


    • I now do an extra 1d6 damage to all evil creatures, which stacks with HoD.


    • They combined, rather than placed side-by-side sharing the numer of attempts, Cure Disease and Lesser Restore. So instead of 2/rest of either/or, when I cast Cure Disease, it adds Lesser Restore along with it. A minor, situationally good, bonus.


    So my offensive capability looks better as long as I am fighting undead. Defensive/Survivability looks worse with 1 less LOH ands no Undying Call.
    Last edited by Fedora1; 08-20-2013 at 05:40 AM.

  4. #1444
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    What is left in inventory?

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Greetings THAC0 Fellowship.
    My name is Ezeikiel, and I have been tasked by Tukcc to act as a provider of some Magical Items you may require.
    My current inventory is listed below.
    In order to purchase these items, send a mail message to me containing <GEMS> whose total base value meets my price for said item.
    I will return your message with item(s) attached.


    • (2) Cure Moderate Wounds-(Lvl 3)----500
    • (1) Cure Serious Wounds--(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Magic Missle---------(Lvl 3)----500
    • (2) Resist Energy--------(Lvl 3)----300
    • (2) Web------------------(Lvl 3)----500
    • (1) Remove Curse---------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Blur-----------------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (2) Lightning Bolt-------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (3) Fireball-------------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Stoneskin------------(Lvl 7)---2500
    • (1) Magic Missle---------(Lvl 7)---2500
    • (1) Charm Monster--------(Lvl 7)---2500


    • (700) +1 Arrows 40 per 100
    • (1000) +1 Bolts 40 per 100
    • (100) +1 Throwing Daggers 20 per 50
    • (100) +1 Darts 20 per 50
    • (100) +1 Throwing Axes 20 per 50
    • (20) +3 Silver Bolts 150
    • (20) +1 Silver Throwing Hammers 20
    • (20) +2 Silver Throwing Darts 70
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  5. #1445
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Since these changes affect all of THAC0, I am posting Jedial's changes here. I did NOT use the +20 Heart (yet), although it appears that would/will be the only way to get back the most useful enhancement that was lost - Undying Call.

    I'll start with what I consider the "bad" changes:

    • NO MORE UNDYING CALL. From what I understand, there is a feat required or deity choice you need to make when starting a Paladin (or Cleric or any divine) that would unlock this enhancement. It does not even appear in any of the racial (half elf) or Class trees. No more raise dead guys, sorry.


    • Lost Divine Might. Not enough points after choosing other things, also with my 15 CHA it went from +2 damage to +1 hit and +1 damage under the new system.


    • My first racial core enhancement is worthless, since I do not have either point blank shot or sneak attack. A waste of 1 AP.


    • Lost 1 Lay on Hands. Now I have 1 instead of 2. Not enough AP to build up both class trees AND racial tree, so had to save that for later.


    • I used to have Human Adaptability that gave me a choice of bonuses. I could use Attack, Armor Class, Damage, Saves or Skills. I now only have the Damage Boost, although it is the second tier.


    Now for the Good:

    • I gained Divine Sacrifice. I can sacrifice 1 SP and 5HP to do an extra 7d6 light damage. I lose the SP/HP whether I score a hit or not.


    • Hunter of the Dead improvement. Essentially got an extra 1d6 damage to undead.


    • Turn undead looks more powerful. They kind of combined it with divine light so you know how much damage you do with your turns. I can now hit undead for 12d6 light damage on a turn attempt.


    • I gained a Paladin Damage Boost 5/rest.


    • I now do an extra 1d6 damage to all evil creatures, which stacks with HoD.


    • They combined, rather than placed side-by-side sharing the numer of attempts, Cure Disease and Lesser Restore. So instead of 2/rest of either/or, when I cast Cure Disease, it adds Lesser Restore along with it. A minor, situationally good, bonus.


    So my offensive capability looks better as long as I am fighting undead. Defensive/Survivability looks worse with 1 less LOH ands no Undying Call.

    My L15 Half-elf paladin gained 28 hps, 10 AC, some more PRR, and +3-4 on each save.

    Since Jed does use a bow, (I've seen it happen!), the 1st rank of half-elf isn't quite 'useless' for him, but it isn't anything I'm doing backflips about either. All in the all the trade offs for spending APs on things I don't want vs thing I do want seem better in this version than before.

    I really like how versatile KotC is now. I didn't see if you still get ghost touch and immunity to level drain though. Did that go away?

  6. #1446
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I really like how versatile KotC is now. I didn't see if you still get ghost touch and immunity to level drain though. Did that go away?
    I have Ghost Touch with my second tier of HoD. Level drain immunity is farther up the tree.

  7. #1447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    ands no Undying Call.
    Undying call is now a Class Feat, with pre-rec of Follower (Class Feat) and a new Feat "Child of the Undying Court". (Not sure of the wording.)
    I guess Undying Call was OP being avail as Enhancements, now it will cost 2 Class Feats and a Normal Feat.

  8. #1448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    But the little quips and judgements about how we are playing, what classes we are playing, what difficulty we are playing is getting old.

    As Cogoiler may not be avail Wednesday night, I invite you to stand in for him if you have the desire and/or time.
    I will not continue this here.

  9. #1449
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Since Jed does use a bow, (I've seen it happen!), the 1st rank of half-elf isn't quite 'useless' for him, but it isn't anything I'm doing backflips about either.
    I do have a bow, but I do not have point blank shot or sneak attack. Those are what benefit from the core racial enhancement for half elves.

  10. #1450
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Undying call is now a Class Feat, with pre-rec of Follower (Class Feat) and a new Feat "Child of the Undying Court". (Not sure of the wording.)
    I guess Undying Call was OP being avail as Enhancements, now it will cost 2 Class Feats and a Normal Feat.
    The way I heard it is that Undying Call is still a class enhancement (not a feat) and that there are now two feats from the Faith line that are pre-reqs.

    So now you need two feats and 2AP, vs the previous 6AP (one for a worthless pre-req enhancement at 2AP, and then 4AP for UC).

    The only problem is, I don't know if Paladins get it as an enhancement anymore, or if it is only cleric/FvS that gets it. I did not even see it in either of the paladin class trees.

  11. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    The only problem is, I don't know if Paladins get it as an enhancement anymore, or if it is only cleric/FvS that gets it. I did not even see it in either of the paladin class trees.
    I built a 7th Level PAL last night and I could have sworn they were Feats.
    Could be wrong.

  12. #1452
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    The way I heard it is that Undying Call is still a class enhancement (not a feat) and that there are now two feats from the Faith line that are pre-reqs.
    Just built a PAL and "Undying Call" is a Class Feat now and has "Follower of the Undying Court" (also Class Feat now) as a Pre-Req.
    "Child of the Undying Court", a Normal Feat, is not required for Undying Call, but if taken gives +1 to Scimitar.

  13. #1453
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    Greetings THAC0 Fellowship.
    My name is Ezeikiel, and I have been tasked by Tukcc to act as a provider of some Magical Items you may require.
    My current inventory is listed below.
    In order to purchase these items, send a mail message to me containing <GEMS> whose total base value meets my price for said item.
    I will return your message with item(s) attached.


    • (2) Cure Moderate Wounds-(Lvl 3)----500
    • (1) Cure Serious Wounds--(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Magic Missle---------(Lvl 3)----500
    • (2) Resist Energy--------(Lvl 3)----300
    • (2) Web------------------(Lvl 3)----500
    • (1) Remove Curse---------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Blur-----------------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (2) Lightning Bolt-------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (3) Fireball-------------(Lvl 5)---1150
    • (1) Stoneskin------------(Lvl 7)---2500
    • (1) Magic Missle---------(Lvl 7)---2500
    • (1) Charm Monster--------(Lvl 7)---2500


    • (600) +1 Arrows 40 per 100
    • (1000) +1 Bolts 40 per 100
    • (100) +1 Throwing Daggers 20 per 50
    • (100) +1 Darts 20 per 50
    • (100) +1 Throwing Axes 20 per 50
    • (20) +3 Silver Bolts 150
    • (20) +1 Silver Throwing Hammers 20
    • (20) +2 Silver Throwing Darts 70
    • (20) +3 Silver Arrows 150

  14. #1454
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Just built a PAL and "Undying Call" is a Class Feat now and has "Follower of the Undying Court" (also Class Feat now) as a Pre-Req.
    "Child of the Undying Court", a Normal Feat, is not required for Undying Call, but if taken gives +1 to Scimitar.
    Yep. Jed might have to swap out a feat or take it later.

  15. #1455
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    I do have a bow, but I do not have point blank shot or sneak attack. Those are what benefit from the core racial enhancement for half elves.
    Right, but you might always pull a sneak attack item that grants sneak attack.

    Either way, I agree it is an odd choice for a mandatory AP expenditure. But now you don't have to take three ranks of improved turning or extra turning for HotD III, so that frees up 12 APs right there.

  16. #1456
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default Finally...

    Figured out why I couldn't reply to threads. I got two log ins now - weird. Annnyhoo.

    Question - we are still limited to 80 AP's yes?

    Makes choosing ENH all the more tougher. You basically can pick enh from any PRE tree and create the ultimate bastard.

    At first blush I didn't like it.

    After digging through the trees and seeing the MULTITUDE of POSSIBILITIES for MULTICLASS DOMINATION -

    I {fricking drool}

    LOVE IT.

    Intruder1 absolutely DEPLORES [] my penchant for "building" characters. HAHAHAHAHAHA. He ain't seen nothing yet.

    These new enhancements - while not all of them are "useful" - allow the creation of some VERY, VERY DEADLY melees and VERY efficient casters.

    To wit. I am seriously considering exchanging Calibhan's 4 levels of Cleric for 4 levels of Paladin.

    This will mean less healing coming from Cali. BUT he will still be able to perform his role as medic. Casting heals will not change only the size of my blue bar. But there are ways to help that. Viagra does wonders I hear.

    4 levels of Paladin will open up both Syb Defender and KotC/HotD enhancements to cherry pick from. These added to Smites, and the new Rogue damage enh will - hopefully make Cali harder hitting against the Undead and more survivable. [And before someone says - but Rogues can't get SA against undead - Smites, along with Rangers Fav. Enemy enh should make up for that].

    I will reroll for appropriate stats with Tukcc.

  17. #1457
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    Intruder1 absolutely DEPLORES [] my penchant for "building" characters. HAHAHAHAHAHA. He ain't seen nothing yet.

    I will reroll for appropriate stats with Tukcc.
    I'll be in-game early. Tukcc had to cherry-pick from different trees too in order to set him up.
    It's a neccesary evil I guess.

    Grondley has been re-envisioned, as has Kierik.
    I have lobbied an invite in case Cogs is unavailable tonight.

    If Guest Passes are still messed up, we will still do something from the "Free" selections.

    Cronoscope is on the horizon, but not until our newest Ranger reaches 4th level, so it will be a few weeks.

  18. #1458
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Either way, I agree it is an odd choice for a mandatory AP expenditure. But now you don't have to take three ranks of improved turning or extra turning for HotD III, so that frees up 12 APs right there.
    Extra turning wasn't bad as it was used for Divine Might as well.

  19. #1459
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default A change of Heart...

    Cold and damp.

    Those two sensations and something else were what roused Calibhan. Calibhan could hear the cadenced humming sound even before he was fully awake. It sounded much like the song Mother would sing to him on those rare occasions when they were allowed to be together, there in the One's Compound. The melody lifted him from his dark dreams like a warm surge of water buoying him up from the cold depths.

    He had died again while fighting over the body of a fallen comrade. Was it Tukcc? Maybe Kierik, or was it Tick - he could no longer tell. Only the sense of failure. The ache of helplessness. The feeling of guilt. Calibhan wished fervently that he could become powerful enough to slay his enemies to keep these things from happening - soon. He had tried to retrain his many skills, focusing them, but to no avail. He had tried many a different weapon combination, hoping to find the one that would give him the best offensive capability to make up for his lack of magical ability. But still, he lacked the power to withstand the undead and evil minions of the Dark One.

    Calibhan opened his eyes and the humming continued. Above him stretched a vaulted ceiling, intricately carved ribs of white and grey stone arching up like the sides of a fantastical ship, illuminated by the soft glow of a warm light. It looked much like a tomb, or a chapel, depending on ones preference. The soft humming was coming from just behind his head. Calibhan wearily sat up and turned - to behold his Mother standing there, looking at him with love in her eyes and a smile on her face. Mother - now dead these many years - at the hands of the One.

    Tears sprang to Calibhan's eyes. She stood there as he would often remember her, not as she had looked when she had helped him escape from the Ones Compound and paid for it with her life, but hale and beautiful. Gone were the wounds of torture, the ravages of poison, the emaciation of imprisonment. Mother - now dead these many years - at the hands of the One.

    "We have little time my son, before you are Recalled. I have been given this longed for chance by the Host to see and speak with you, this one final time." Her voice sounded so sweet and pure, not like the reedy, pain-scraped whisper she had had there at the end - at the hands of the One.

    "Mother...", Calibhan choked out.

    "Shhhh... listen beloved. This crisis that you face is a crisis of your heart, not your abilities, and can only be resolved in one way. You must give up your Hate, the Hate that consumes you, the Hate that burdens you, the Hate that confuses you. It was Hate that drove you into learning other professions, other skills, diluting your power, slowing your progress as a Holy Warrior. You sought to become strong and self-reliant, but life is a journey made with others. You must have faith that you will find the ones you need to help you. Strength and self-reliance will come with time." She reached out a strong hand and placed it against his cheek. To Calibhan it felt like the warmth of the sun on a cold day.

    With luminous, love filled eyes she said, "You must give up your Hate for your Father and lay down your burden of vengeance, only then will you be free to take up your rightful power in full."

    "Nooooo." Calibhan cried out in anguish. "Do not speak of that Drow, the ONE. He is no Father to Calibhan! He is a twisted and evil monster. He deserves death! His only purpose of imprisoning and raping you was to beget Calibhan, so that he would have a new experiment to play with. A dwarf-drow battle-cleric to lead his undead and evil troops. And to keep Calibhan in line as he grew, he used You as Calibhan's Achilles heel, punishing you instead of Calibhan!"

    "Calibhan will never forgive him!" Calibhan rasped out.

    "My son, I did not speak of forgiveness." Mother admonished him. "You must lay down your Hate for Him, you must purge your being of those dark and angry feelings, of that other knowledge that holds you back, limits your power, saps your strength. If ever you do meet Him again, you must face him with Love in your heart for those you care for - not Hate for him. With Rightousness in your spirit to protect those you love - not Vengeance to destroy him. And if you slay Him, do so because of What he is, not Who He is."

    "Mother... Calibhan... cannot." Calibhan choked out. "You ask Calibhan to lay down one burden only to take up a heavier one." Tears of frustration began to well in Calibhans eyes now.

    "Calibhan is not strong enough..." he whispered, hanging his head in shame.

    "My silly boy... center of my heart, flesh of my flesh; you are also a Dwarf, and we bear mountains on our shoulders - you are strong enough."

    "Mother... without Hate... Calibhan has nothing... nothing to bridge the gap to Love." he mumbled.

    "Then let Faith be your bridge. If you cannot find Faith in Love on it's own, then - can you not find it in your heart to have Faith in Love for Me?" she begged. "Open your heart to me, and let me fill you with Faith in Love...". Tears streaked down her face, like rain on alabaster.

    Numbly Calibhan nodded, his blood beginning to ring in his ears, his sight blurring with tears.

    "Hear now your dwarvish name that I gave to you when you were born, which the Drow have mangled, and cross that bridge to me,

    ... my devoted son

    ... my beloved 'Bright-burning Banner'

    ... my... KHALI VANG"!

    At the sound of his True Name, pure agony ripped through Calibhans's head. It felt as though a fiery axe had split his skull, searing flame burning his brain. His blood felt as if it boiled within him, igniting his skin as if from the inside. His body convulsed as though it was being stretched out on a great rack and pulled apart with great chains. His heart hammered in his chest as if it would explode in incandesence.

    Calibhan felt as if he were being unmade, transmuted and reformed again.

    A tortured wail of agony continously ripped from his throat as he writhed on the floor in pain. He could hear the Voice of Mother speaking - reciting a prayer or a spell - he could not tell, sounding like falling chimes echoing in a cavern. A great light of diamond hard brilliance enveloped Calibhan. Images of glyphs and wards and spells tumbled through his mind like leaves swirling in the wind. Visions of flashing weapons and striking shields flickered in his thoughts like birds taking wing. Faster and faster the images came like a vortex of fire, Mother's Voice sounding now like the rush of a mountain cataract as it raced down from the heights.

    The light about him blurred and softened into a fine mist that swirled around him like a whirlpool and disappated.

    Khalivang climbed slowly, shakily to his feet. Nearby the High Paladin that had Recalled him looked at him in astonishment and deep concern.

    "Are you well Calibhan? The Recall spell should not have caused you such pain. What has happened?"

    "All... all is well, Master Paladin. Khalivang... Calibhan has simply had a change of Heart. Among other things."

    With that, Calibhan the Cleric stumbled through the drawing room door and out into the tavern great room. Gathered nearby around a scarred wood table were the members of the Fellowship, his comrades - his friends, who turned to greet him with smiles and hearty welcomes.

    Love bloomed in his heart for them, and he said a quiet prayer for Mother. He would be their Shield and Ward, and let other Swords and Axes flash when and where they may. Calibhan no longer worried about being powerful enough to slay his enemies, he was content to be powerful enough to Protect his friends.

  20. #1460
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default Hello...

    Pure Cleric.

    Surprised?

    Me too.

    There were alot of reasons - many which I had typed and then edited. They really don't matter. Suffice it to say, I think it will be for the Good. [pun intended]
    Last edited by zefjoe; 08-23-2013 at 08:25 PM.

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