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  1. #1861
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Vault of Night...

    THACO is flagged for Von and I'm sure that you all are eager to get in there. I am in another guild (SDK) that is in a similar position, casual players that for the most part haven't seen Von either but are not numerous enough for a full group. I have been talking up the idea to combine the two groups for mutual support and enjoyment. I'd like to suggest that THACO had to hire some mercenaries to help them complete a quest. We would have to give priority of positions to THACO and absolve SDK from our gear and shrine rules. I'll see if I can get 'one weapon set and one ring' concession. We'll probably will also have to relax the level ranges allowed in, not vastly over level but I don't know yet exactly who will commit to this. I'd also like to suggest that for easier scheduling, that Saturday be considered as well as Wednesday. If THACO is for this, I can get more details and commitments.

    I have really enjoyed both groups for quite a while and really feel that the two guilds will easily mesh together. Let me know your thoughts on this.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  2. #1862
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default "Hireling" VON Raiders

    I like the concept. Sure hope we can work this out so both Guilds get benefit of VON experience! *Crosses fingers, toes and eyes, hoping nobody sees him like this!*

  3. #1863
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    THACO is flagged for Von and I'm sure that you all are eager to get in there. I am in another guild (SDK) that is in a similar position, casual players that for the most part haven't seen Von either but are not numerous enough for a full group. I have been talking up the idea to combine the two groups for mutual support and enjoyment. I'd like to suggest that THACO had to hire some mercenaries to help them complete a quest. We would have to give priority of positions to THACO and absolve SDK from our gear and shrine rules. I'll see if I can get 'one weapon set and one ring' concession. We'll probably will also have to relax the level ranges allowed in, not vastly over level but I don't know yet exactly who will commit to this. I'd also like to suggest that for easier scheduling, that Saturday be considered as well as Wednesday. If THACO is for this, I can get more details and commitments.

    I have really enjoyed both groups for quite a while and really feel that the two guilds will easily mesh together. Let me know your thoughts on this.

    Your best bet is to convince Intruder to make an exception and let you use shrines in this raid.


    Good reasons for this one time exception:


    1-VoN5 is a verrry long quest if you aren't familiar with it and there are some points where you need folks to pull levers in tandem which can make recalling and re-entering problematic

    2- It is a raid - which means it is a few levels of magnitude more difficult than what you've ever run as a group before. It will be a big challenge even with shrines.

    3- You will be teaming with other players who will use shrines. Half the party eschewing shrines means it will be more of a burden for the half that actually does use shrines. Maybe, as Lead suggest's, you can get the other group to agree to something like using less gear for the raid as their part of the compromise.

    4- There are only two shrines in the quest


    Now that you are all level 10ish? Maybe you should try running chronoscope on normal, without shrines, to give you a taste of what you are dealing with.
    Last edited by Postumus; 01-17-2014 at 03:23 PM.

  4. #1864
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default We did Chrono a little while back...

    We're level 11 - 12 now; the outcome from Chronoscope;

    SPLAT!!!!

    We survived till the bank.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  5. #1865
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    THACO is flagged for Von and I'm sure that you all are eager to get in there. I am in another guild (SDK) that is in a similar position, casual players that for the most part haven't seen Von either but are not numerous enough for a full group. I have been talking up the idea to combine the two groups for mutual support and enjoyment. I'd like to suggest that THACO had to hire some mercenaries to help them complete a quest. We would have to give priority of positions to THACO and absolve SDK from our gear and shrine rules. I'll see if I can get 'one weapon set and one ring' concession. We'll probably will also have to relax the level ranges allowed in, not vastly over level but I don't know yet exactly who will commit to this. I'd also like to suggest that for easier scheduling, that Saturday be considered as well as Wednesday. If THACO is for this, I can get more details and commitments.

    I have really enjoyed both groups for quite a while and really feel that the two guilds will easily mesh together. Let me know your thoughts on this.

    I'm not comfortable relaxing our rules. There are plenty of other character slots that can be used to run raids with DDO rules.

  6. #1866
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Your best bet is to convince Intruder to make an exception and let you use shrines in this raid.
    Good reasons for this one time exception:
    1-VoN5 is a verrry long quest if you aren't familiar with it and there are some points where you need folks to pull levers in tandem which can make recalling and re-entering problematic
    2- It is a raid - which means it is a few levels of magnitude more difficult than what you've ever run as a group before. It will be a big challenge even with shrines.
    3- You will be teaming with other players who will use shrines. Half the party eschewing shrines means it will be more of a burden for the half that actually does use shrines. Maybe, as Lead suggest's, you can get the other group to agree to something like using less gear for the raid as their part of the compromise.
    4- There are only two shrines in the quest
    Now that you are all level 10ish? Maybe you should try running chronoscope on normal, without shrines, to give you a taste of what you are dealing with.
    We've tried Chrono twice and we didn't faire well, as I expected. Chrono was for "fun". I don't expect raids to be possible for this playstyle.
    Having said that, I don't see any reason not to give the Dragon a try, if for nothing else than to behold it.
    VoN WAS a goal for THAC0 until we hit a brick wall in Haywire Foundry. When we fail a Quest twice, we abandon it, and therefore the Chain.

    Firstly, we're NOT flagged until we can complete Haywire Foundry, which we've attempted twice with no success.
    Then, if it's for "fun", THAC0 guidelines won't mean as much because nothing brought out of a Raid would be allowable in our campaign.

    LeadHero tried last year to do the same with Chrono, but met with little interest.
    I believe SDK will have the base positions, with vacancies filled by THAC0 .
    If there is interest, give it a shot.

    What's the worst that could happen?

  7. #1867
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    We've tried Chrono twice and we didn't faire well, as I expected. Chrono was for "fun". I don't expect raids to be possible for this playstyle.
    Having said that, I don't see any reason not to give the Dragon a try, if for nothing else than to behold it.
    VoN WAS a goal for THAC0 until we hit a brick wall in Haywire Foundry. When we fail a Quest twice, we abandon it, and therefore the Chain.

    Firstly, we're NOT flagged until we can complete Haywire Foundry, which we've attempted twice with no success.
    Then, if it's for "fun", THAC0 guidelines won't mean as much because nothing brought out of a Raid would be allowable in our campaign.

    LeadHero tried last year to do the same with Chrono, but met with little interest.
    I believe SDK will have the base positions, with vacancies filled by THAC0 .
    If there is interest, give it a shot.

    What's the worst that could happen?
    I've tried to complete the entire VON chain twice with the Halfling Commandos on Sarlona. Full group (well nearly full the 2nd time) of characters in a spread between levels 9 and 12 (maybe 13), will enough carrying the best gear to count as fully ready for this quest. We had a near full party wipe both times in VON5. It was a lot of fun. I would run it again with those guy any time.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  8. #1868
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    LeadHero tried last year to do the same with Chrono, but met with little interest.
    I believe SDK will have the base positions, with vacancies filled by THAC0 .
    If there is interest, give it a shot.

    What's the worst that could happen?

    Maybe we should figure out how to handle the growing XP divide within the group before we start allowing THAC0 characters to freelance (i.e. gain XP outside group)? Unless you're suggesting that VIP players not take part...

  9. #1869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magiker View Post
    Maybe we should figure out how to handle the growing XP divide within the group before we start allowing THAC0 characters to freelance (i.e. gain XP outside group)? Unless you're suggesting that VIP players not take part...
    The divide is not as big a problem as you might think in the larger picture, as long as we're within a level of each other.
    We're not suggesting freelancing. The XP gained from a Raid on Normal is minimal.
    Having said that, it is unlikely Tukcc would be available any other time than Wednesday Nights, so that's 1 VIP that would not be present.
    I have previously suggested that non-VIP characters use the Lesser XP Tome to compensate but you guys said it was not neccessary.

    It is my belief that our characters are not capable to perform in Raids because they contain encounters and require playstyles that our characters are not created for.
    Chrono proved that.
    But there is no reason not to experience them. You prob won't complete, hence no XP, and the "Raid Loot" won't fit in our playstyle.

  10. #1870
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    THACO is flagged for Von and I'm sure that you all are eager to get in there.

    Sounds like half of THACO isn't that eager after all. LOL.

    What server is SDK on? I could get something flagged for VoN if you still need more bodies.

  11. #1871
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    Sounds like half of THACO isn't that eager after all. LOL.

    What server is SDK on? I could get something flagged for VoN if you still need more bodies.
    Wouldn't that be....Thelanis?

  12. #1872
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    Default I'm curious

    I just discovered this thread and am curious about how everyone who is attempting this style of play is liking it? I do appreciate the attempt at replicating a PnP experience on DDO. It seems like the lower levels would be fun and work well with the restrictions. However, I am guessing that the higher level you are, the more difficult it becomes to complete quests using these restrictions. DDO is just not built that way. More power to you if you are making that work. It seems to take some dedication!

  13. #1873
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabannon View Post
    I just discovered this thread and am curious about how everyone who is attempting this style of play is liking it? I do appreciate the attempt at replicating a PnP experience on DDO. It seems like the lower levels would be fun and work well with the restrictions. However, I am guessing that the higher level you are, the more difficult it becomes to complete quests using these restrictions. DDO is just not built that way. More power to you if you are making that work. It seems to take some dedication!
    I was a part of THACO for a very short time, but I can tell you that the devotion that this group brings to the idea of DnD in DDO is amazing. I have nothing but respect for these guys and their ability to find joy even in their failures. Yes they are seeing the difficulty ramp up at higher levels, but I'm sure they will keep plodding along as long as they are having fun.

  14. #1874
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Wishful thinking...

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    we're NOT flagged until we can complete Haywire Foundry, which we've attempted twice with no success.
    That is a major point that I overlooked. The only excuse is I have been running the flagging quests on other characters the past several months in SDK. I'm sorry that I brought this up without making sure that it was legit. So the great merge will be canceled.

    To Tabannon:
    The most important part of THACO that recreates the pnp experience is the GROUP, not the lack of gear. Yes, I joined mostly on the premise that the group would put the game experience foremost and the gear ruleset was part of the package. It in fact does recreate my original D&D experience fairly well. I went back and looked at my old cards and at level 7, as a half elf druid, I had a +2 scimitar and a landshark shield. Over the last few levels, as a caster, I have become very stingy with spell use. Echos aren't useful at the end fight at all any more; while the party can still slowly heal after a fight.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  15. #1875
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadHero5 View Post
    Over the last few levels, as a caster, I have become very stingy with spell use. Echos aren't useful at the end fight at all any more; while the party can still slowly heal after a fight.
    I've noticed this. You've been very tactical and intelligent. Kudos.

  16. #1876
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    In some downtime, I installed a "Practice Dummy" on our Airship to see what it did.
    In our playstyle, I suppose it's function is quite different than other Guilds.

    In case you're interested. it has ~4500HP and has ~0 AC. (Duh!)
    Trying different weapons gave these results....
    Normal Longsword.....9 minutes to knock down.
    2 Handed Sword........8 minutes.
    Normal Quarterstaff....9 minutes.
    Normal Dagger...........10 minutes.
    Throwing Daggers......30 minutes.
    Normal Arrows...........30 minutes.

    Critical hits are always resisted, but damage related effects that are triggered by criticals work, as does any other effectsfor damage.
    Tukcc's Flaming Heartseeker Shortbow took just 2 minutes.

    I suppose the value of this is just a method of comparing damage potential.

    There is a +2 "to hit" bonus that lasts for just a hour after it is knocked down, but that isn't worth much to us.

  17. #1877
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    Default Hey Cogs!!

    Has enough time passed for last night to be funny yet???

  18. #1878
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Fun!

    Fun, but not very funny. Reconsidering the problem and now thinking it is my old enemy, the Lag Monster. Multiple opponents all attacking Cogs in a small area with lots of moving parts in the visual. Tested keyboard and mouse and cannot duplicate the non-functional activity in any component under similar circumstances when there is no overload of critters or casters.

    Cogs is currently looking for Plate Armor with both Vitality and Constitution bonus. Just don't look at him when he disables traps in his grungy underwear! Please note, he finds giggles under those circumstances to be distracting and that could lead to exploded boxes. Behave!

    -Sam

  19. #1879
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    A note to Cogoiler.....
    The Restless Isles were not intended for our playstyle. Nevertheless, we performed very well, even considering we numbered only (4). You, being the weakest and most visible became target numero uno to all the baddies.

    The Gates in this area required a 25 Open lock skill AND a dice roll of 20! The reason they just didn't say "you can not pick this lock" was because it ended up being an unintended lesson for the Classic Rogue about using up resources.
    You would naturally expect to succeed at Picking Locks with enough attempts and you went thru quite a few picks before you finally decided the lock was too tough. I believe the Gate DC's were intentionally high, and our playstyle just made it impossible, but the lesson was in knowing when to give up.
    (And hopefully, Turbine picks up on this and sees the value in it)

    The Restless Isles was a great time for our group. Since we have only 2-3 hours to play, it was decided to make locating the (2) Quest givers into the goal for the night, which proved to be a good idea.
    We located 1 Quest giver, but ran out of time before finding the second. Depending on the dice roll, it may be a few weeks before we venture there again, but the second Quest giver will be the goal.

    Once we locate both Quest givers, we won't have to waste time actually getting to the actual Quests.
    (the Raids here are not considered in our Quest Matrix, but may be attempted "for fun" at a later date.)
    Last edited by intruder1; 01-24-2014 at 03:32 AM.

  20. #1880
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    Default Interesting oppinion....

    In a thread discussing the "Right" way to play DDO.
    Note the reference to "Normal" and "LootGen".

    Quote Originally Posted by Someone
    My guess (not a Dev/don't know any Devs) is that the baseline is a random pug of 6 people all playing characters on those preset path options they offer you in chargen. 1 trapper, 1 healer, 1 arcane, 1 melee, the last two "whatever". I've tried levelling a couple paths and doing the quests on "normal" with lootgen gear, and that seems to fit the difficulty setting.

    As far as "expectations" by staff on whether players will form a community and teach each other, I suspect that's a very big "yes". Both because very little information is provided in-game, and because of the emphasis on guilds.

    I have no real thoughts on whether they expect zergers to slow down .

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