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  1. #1561
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    Excellent comments, all of you. This is why I prefer this group, good points of view and the reasoning to back it up.

    Can anyone comment about a 20% weight limit versus no limit at all?

  2. #1562
    Community Member Fedora1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Excellent comments, all of you. This is why I prefer this group, good points of view and the reasoning to back it up.
    Subliminal slam? Ouch. I always thought I posted good reasoning for any of my opinions.

  3. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Subliminal slam? Ouch. I always thought I posted good reasoning for any of my opinions.
    No cut on you at all. Your opinions have been good and factual. Everyone contributes here, the only difference is relivence to one ideal or another.
    I do think I can speak for the others in that you and Postumus will always be considered friends and fellow adventurers. Your characters just followed a different path.

  4. #1564
    Community Member Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora1 View Post
    Subliminal slam? Ouch. I always thought I posted good reasoning for any of my opinions.
    Fedora, I will always consider you a part of this group. Forum posting and good ideas counts.
    Last edited by Hazelnut; 09-13-2013 at 10:16 AM.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  5. #1565
    Community Member Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Excellent comments, all of you. This is why I prefer this group, good points of view and the reasoning to back it up.

    Can anyone comment about a 20% weight limit versus no limit at all?
    As it happens, I ran a test of this on Zyinniah yesterday. Zin carries a bit more than Violette but only barely over 10% of carry capacity.

    I ran 2 quests back to back. I ran out of slots in my gem bag. Shortly after that I ran out of backpack slots and started dumping gems to free up slots. If I hadn't started dumping stuff, I would have had to give up on picking up more and heavier loot. At the end, I was just above 20% load (22ish I think). At the end of the first adventure, I was still under 20% load.

    I didn't pick up any heavy items (because they didn't show up). Most of the treasure was light weapons and scrolls. I think the heaviest item was an 8lb 2-handed sword.

    To be fair, we might want to run this test a few times.

    We also might want to consider the consequences of heavier weapons and armor than I typically use.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  6. #1566
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    It's too bad the inventory system didn't have weapon assignment slots on the "paper doll", fixing each character with a limited number of weapons that can be carried and used. Left and right hip, thigh, left and right shoulder/back for sheaths that corresponded to main hand, offhand, secondary light weapons, shield slung and or bow with quiver. You wouldn't have to worry about "carry encumberance"; the first backpack is all you can access in quest and no weapons could be stored in the first pack. The other "packs" would be general storage, like a quick bank.

  7. #1567
    Community Member Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    It's too bad the inventory system didn't have weapon assignment slots on the "paper doll", fixing each character with a limited number of weapons that can be carried and used. Left and right hip, thigh, left and right shoulder/back for sheaths that corresponded to main hand, offhand, secondary light weapons, shield slung and or bow with quiver. You wouldn't have to worry about "carry encumberance"; the first backpack is all you can access in quest and no weapons could be stored in the first pack. The other "packs" would be general storage, like a quick bank.
    Sounds complicated. You could probably achieve the same thing by reducing the number of quick-access weapon sets. 4 to 6 is probably realistic.

    I don't agree with idea of limiting the backpack access. Possibly making each pack tab take extra actions so you have to plan carefully to switch out your weapons when you realize that you readied the wrong set.

    But, weapon set slots on the paper doll would be more realistic/D&D-esque.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  8. #1568
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    10%, 20%, no% - in the end it really makes little difference. It's completely up to the player to monitor this "encumbrance" and reliably adhere to it. The same goes for weapons carried or wearables.

    We all trust each other to not play the DDO way. As I stated earlier, any of the three characters I adventure with - I'll load out sensibly and as if they were "real".

    At most:
    2 main weapons - left and right hip sheath
    - 1H slashing for main hand [good for any enemy]
    - light bludgeon for offhand [good for skellies] - [or shield for sword and board]

    1 or 2 secondary weapons - light shortsword, dagger and or kukri - left and right thigh sheath

    - shield slung on left shoulder [if stowed]
    - bow [xbow] and quiver on right shoulder [if stowed]

    - 2H weapon carried "in hand"

    I may not have all of the above either; if character is TWF, there won't be a shield or 2H weapon

    Cali being cleric carries a scepter and shield and mace, that's it.

    All that gear - chain mail, four weapons and bow/quiver - plus some wearables and potions found. If all that comes up a tad bit over the weight limit [say for Vinnie] I'll just play it that way. Its what she would carry. Where there's a will there's a way.

    Until Turbine decides to implement say - a "difficulty" choice for Classic play, instead of Casual and Solo [which are pretty much useless] - a lot of the play style for Classic will be at the players discretion. It also means that trying to implement that play style to the current mechanics of DDO means a lot of trial and error and application to a "moving target".

    Encumbrance "consequence"
    Weapon "load out"
    Enhancement choices

    these things will only add minor depth to our play style - and really at the end of a quest - will only make a "difference" to the individual player that chose to implement them or not.

    For those that want that true Classic feel - they will - without hesitation.
    For those that want to play "challenged" or in a static group or whatever - they won't, not completely.

    It shouldn't ruin the fun for anyone choosing to play Classic style.

    Hope this didn't come off too snarky or preachy.

  9. #1569
    Community Member Varhann's Avatar
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    I'm perfectly ok with the 20% rule if that is what is ultimately decided. It really makes little difference to me as a Wizard. I won't be wearing armor and carrying multiple weapon sets. I already don't feel good carrying a crossbow, but it does give me something to do when my Sp run out.

    The issue with trying to play classic DnD in DDO makes things a bit challenging when it comes to weapons. DDO has it's magic weapon system set up so you can collect a weapon for every situation with little effort. That leads to having multiple weapons sets (Undead, Elemental, Bleeders, ect....)and always have the best of what you need for every fighting situation. This was never the case in a Classic DnD campaign, at least none that ever played/DM'd.

    When you got a magic X weapon, you coveted it. It was all you had and you were proud to have it, be it a +1 Longsword +2 vs Magic Creatures or a Flametongue. It was what you used to fight everything, period. When you found something you considered better, you switched to that and left the old one in your strongbox at home. Good DM's didn't allow you to carry an arsenal unless you had a Bag of Holding or Portable Hole. It made owning a Magic Weapon mean something. Getting around that in DDO is tough. Everything you do rewards you with magic out the wazzoo. This group does a great job battling that, but eventually, even with the limits we set on treasure, everyone will have more magic than they know what to do with.

    I would prefer to see the group adopt a policy on 1 standard weapon set, 1 ranged or back up weapon set, and 1 light weapon, maximum. I know it may be a bit contrary to my initial statements on the issue, but after a good think on it, I realize how much I hate Monty "Haul" magic rich play. I would not count the first weapon set towards the 20%, but every weapon after that would count. Just a suggestion.

    From my original statement, I did not want to anyone to think I supported an unlimited Encumberence rule. I just think we should play a little loose with Enc. and concentrate more on rules that enhance gameplay, not bog it down. I believe my above suggestion is an attempt to be realistic about what you carry within the fantasy setting and not take advantage of the DDO system.

    Aldhur, Mage and Mensch

  10. #1570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    We also might want to consider the consequences of heavier weapons and armor than I typically use.
    I'm not sure I understand this.

    The only reason for the 10-20% weight limit was to prevent Arsenals from being brought into a Quest to begin with.
    You know......arrows and bolts numbering in the thousands. It's another reason we use Quivers.
    Once a Quest begins, weight is not considered.
    It was just a quick encumberence limit. Not meant as a limit throughout the quest.

  11. #1571
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    It's too bad the inventory system didn't have weapon assignment slots on the "paper doll", fixing each character with a limited number of weapons that can be carried and used. Left and right hip, thigh, left and right shoulder/back for sheaths that corresponded to main hand, offhand, secondary light weapons, shield slung and or bow with quiver. You wouldn't have to worry about "carry encumberance"; the first backpack is all you can access in quest and no weapons could be stored in the first pack. The other "packs" would be general storage, like a quick bank.
    Interesting idea.

  12. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    The issue with trying to play classic DnD in DDO makes things a bit challenging when it comes to weapons. DDO has it's magic weapon system set up so you can collect a weapon for every situation with little effort. That leads to having multiple weapons sets (Undead, Elemental, Bleeders, ect....)and always have the best of what you need for every fighting situation. This was never the case in a Classic DnD campaign, at least none that ever played/DM'd.
    Agreed....my thoughts exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    When you got a magic X weapon, you coveted it. It was all you had and you were proud to have it, be it a +1 Longsword +2 vs Magic Creatures or a Flametongue. It was what you used to fight everything, period. When you found something you considered better, you switched to that and left the old one in your strongbox at home. Good DM's didn't allow you to carry an arsenal unless you had a Bag of Holding or Portable Hole. It made owning a Magic Weapon mean something. Getting around that in DDO is tough. Everything you do rewards you with magic out the wazzoo. This group does a great job battling that, but eventually, even with the limits we set on treasure, everyone will have more magic than they know what to do with.
    Damn....couldn't have said it better myself!


    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    I would prefer to see the group adopt a policy on 1 standard weapon set, 1 ranged or back up weapon set, and 1 light weapon, maximum. I know it may be a bit contrary to my initial statements on the issue, but after a good think on it, I realize how much I hate Monty "Haul" magic rich play. I would not count the first weapon set towards the 20%, but every weapon after that would count. Just a suggestion.
    I think that would all fit within the 20%. The "sets" idea would have to be an agreed-upon concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varhann View Post
    From my original statement, I did not want to anyone to think I supported an unlimited Encumberence rule. I just think we should play a little loose with Enc. and concentrate more on rules that enhance gameplay, not bog it down. I believe my above suggestion is an attempt to be realistic about what you carry within the fantasy setting and not take advantage of the DDO system.

    Aldhur, Mage and Mensch
    Unless there is any other comments, our "LOOSE" Encumberencee guideline is 20% of Max Load AT THE START OF A QUEST. After that, weight will not be considered.
    (Note: Arrows and Bolts are required to be in a Quiver, preferably a THIN Quiver.)
    (Also note that MULTIPLE QUIVERS ARE ALLOWED.)

  13. #1573
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    Default Interesting thread...

    This thread discussses Melee mechanics In DDO.
    It's a good read and I especially like the comparison of Concealment, Dodge and Armor Class.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...eality-and-you

  14. #1574
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    Ah....the bubble is getting thin.......

    Quote Originally Posted by someone
    It's nice to see teamwork in action. Self healing is really being pushed these days and I don't blame people for wanting to play that way. I make sure my toons can self heal because I don't want to be the person in the group that has to wait on a healer or simply not play because I can't keep myself up. It's a personal preference of mine. I don't want the leader being forced to find a healer for me if he otherwise would not have to.

    I've also been gravitating toward low man EH runs lately. I've been finding a real lack of interaction in EE content that I've been playing. It typically turns into a "follow the blitzer" zerg fest where I struggle to do anything constructive at all before someone else kills it. Sure we complete, but I feel no sense of accomplishment at all, like I was just piking. EE is just not for everyone. I agree it can be challenging, but it's so far removed from the "balance" that we have in EN and EH for DC, AC, HP, saves, etc. that it's just not the same game really.

  15. #1575
    Community Member Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Unless there is any other comments, our "LOOSE" Encumberencee guideline is 20% of Max Load AT THE START OF A QUEST. After that, weight will not be considered.
    (Note: Arrows and Bolts are required to be in a Quiver, preferably a THIN Quiver.)
    (Also note that MULTIPLE QUIVERS ARE ALLOWED.)
    Okay....

    Why require a quiver? Why a thin quiver specifically, and why keep the arrows/bolts in it?

    For the record, I keep my arrows in my quiver because it frees up backpack slots for those bulky gems. I prefer a thin quiver because I am less likely to run out of arrows, especially if I happen to forget to buy more before the questing starts.

    But, given the way we limit our sources of ammunition, a WIDE quiver makes some sense since it lets us accumulate a wider selection when we stumble across a pile of arrows in a breakable.

    I'm really wondering why we need the rule, not the logic of using a quiver for arrows and bolts.


    On a totally separate note, we need a major update to the THAC0 rules. The first post in this thread does not accurately reflect the way we introduced the last 2 new player nor does it cover all the restrictions/rules we've decided to follow. I don't want to bend or break the rules, but I don't think we are all following the same ones.
    Last edited by Hazelnut; 09-14-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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  16. #1576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    Okay....

    Why require a quiver? Why a thin quiver specifically, and why keep the arrows/bolts in it?
    Only because some characters started carrying over 1000 arrows which I had issues with.
    The thin quiver was favored when we were just using one type because of it's 400 max, but any type would be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    For the record, I keep my arrows in my quiver because it frees up backpack slots for those bulky gems. I prefer a thin quiver because I am less likely to run out of arrows, especially if I happen to forget to buy more before the questing starts.

    But, given the way we limit our sources of ammunition, a WIDE quiver makes some sense since it lets us accumulate a wider selection when we stumble across a pile of arrows in a breakable.

    I'm really wondering why we need the rule, not the logic of using a quiver for arrows and bolts.
    Again, just for those who couldn't imagine leaving the house without 1000+

    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    On a totally separate note, we need a major update to the THAC0 rules. The first post in this thread does not accurately reflect the way we introduced the last 2 new player nor does it cover all the restrictions/rules we've decided to follow. I don't want to bend or break the rules, but I don't think we are all following the same ones.
    Agreed. I'll get on it.

  17. #1577
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    Default One of the reasons we do what we do

    The quote below was obtained from the Permadeath Forum more than a year ago and is more important than ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by parvo
    For those guilds that don't use auction or broker, the new pre-adolescent-DM-here-you-can-have-a-holy-sword-for-killing-a-kobold-super-monty-haul-loot is going to have a big impact on play. The change is going to create a big shift in character power. What was difficult before will become easy. What was easy before will be a total laugher. I think it is a bad change for PD and the game as a whole, but Turb seems intent on making it super fast and easy to cap your character in "normal" play.

    This is not a change that is easily ignored. Auction house and broker are simple to disallow, chests and end loot are not. I have several characters I started from scratch with the new loot. By level six, they are better equipped than my previous level ten to twelves. Progression will require less thought along the way. Strategic play will decrease in favor of zerg and heal. I don't like the change but I don't see many good alternatives.

    The bright side is there is a lot of content my guild has not completed. One can only hope we find suitable challenge at new heights.
    This is why we only accept Valor as an End Reward and only accept treasure from a chest 10% of the time.

    With breakables yielding Items, it is a viable addition to the Treasure obtained in a Classic sense.

  18. #1578
    Community Member Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    Okay....

    Why require a quiver? Why a thin quiver specifically, and why keep the arrows/bolts in it?
    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Only because some characters started carrying over 1000 arrows which I had issues with.
    Ah! I just got a little smarter.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  19. #1579
    Community Member Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Default Backpacks

    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    It's too bad the inventory system didn't have weapon assignment slots on the "paper doll", fixing each character with a limited number of weapons that can be carried and used. Left and right hip, thigh, left and right shoulder/back for sheaths that corresponded to main hand, offhand, secondary light weapons, shield slung and or bow with quiver. You wouldn't have to worry about "carry encumberance"; the first backpack is all you can access in quest and no weapons could be stored in the first pack. The other "packs" would be general storage, like a quick bank.
    I was a bit more intrigued by your idea than I first thought. I ended up going back and looking at how I organized by backpack tabs on all my characters and realized that without actually planning to, I've pretty much been doing something similar on all my toons.

    Despite my example of carrying a dozen weapons (somewhere below), I max out at around 5 or 6 (not counting the quiver) and I've organized my backpack as follows:

    1st TAB: Easy Access items. This is effectively all the things that would be in pockets or sheaths or otherwise easy to access at any time (except potions) It's usually about 1/2 full or less. So, this is my substitute for the paperdoll selection of sheaths.

    2nd TAB: The Potion belt. Pretty much just potions. Also about 1/2 full. I have 1 hotbar just for these.

    3rd TAB: The Actual pack. This is where everything else (that I rarely access) goes. Including most treasure.

    4th TAB: I only have 1 toon that has earned the 4th tab so far. This is pretty much the bottom of the backpack.

    Anyway, I just thought it was interesting that I ended up organizing things more or less to zefjoe's suggestion without even realizing it.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  20. #1580
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    I like to see statements like this.....

    Quote Originally Posted by someone
    I think the inclusion of "The Forgotten Realms" is what has brought the look and feel of D&D back into the game. The wilderness areas are one aspect and the King's Forest, Underdark. etc... Fortunately it has continued with Storm Horns & Wheelon. Some of the new quests have stronger storylines and a few with a nice dungeon crawl feel to them, well done Turbine. I think Eberron allowed to some extent the developers at Turbine to take some liberties away from D&D that caused some of the non-D&D feel (i.e. steam punk, etc...). I know that Wizards of the Coast has a lot of input into keeping Turbine on track in FR as it is the bread & butter of D&D.

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