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  1. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by .
    I would think the trap DCs being lowered would be good for everyone because you aren't restricted to normal difficulty now......
    Good point, but we play Normal because we LIKE to. Traps at Normal are more FUN because we don't always HAVE to disarm them.
    Quote Originally Posted by .
    #3 won't affect THACO for another year, and useful augments seem to drop so rarely that I would be surprised if #2 has any significant impact.
    Another good point. I still stand by the 10% rule for Mon/Wed. (But that will change to 20% VERY soon)
    Quote Originally Posted by .
    That leaves the paragon weapons. I have no issues using them, they are already level restricted, as only characters level 11 and above can use them, and 'banning' them would mean never being able to use a weapon with a potential greater than +5, which seems unrealistic for a game where players can reach level 28 now.
    Those weapons will greatly impact Mon/Wed groups doing Levels 11+ on Normal.

    It will prob be 2-3 years before we get near Upper Levels (ie, 14-15 ). I suspect there will be more changes by then.
    In the meantime, those who have not played at upper levels will enjoy the "New" Quests. (from their point of view)

  2. #1482
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Cogoiler Stats

    Cogoiler Stats at level 10.

    Base + Feats and Enhancements + Items and Effects = Total

    STR 10 + 0 + 0 = 10
    DEX 18 + 1 + 1 = 20
    CON 14 + 0 + 0 = 14
    INT 14 + 0 + 0 = 14
    WIS 14 + 0 + 0 = 14
    CHA 10 + 0 + 0 = 10

    =================

    Base + Ability, Feats and Enhancements + Effects = Total

    Bluff 13 + 1 + 7 = 21
    Disable 13 + 7 + 3 = 23
    Hide 13 + 6 + 5 = 24
    Listen 11 + 7 + 3 = 21
    Move Silent 13 + 6 + 5 = 24
    Search 13 +7 + 3 = 23
    Spot 13 + 7 + 3 = 23
    UMD 13 + 2 + 0 = 15

  3. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    Cogoiler Stats at level 10.
    Thanks.

    For the time being, insure you are not using any Rogues Tools that have a "+".
    Normal and Mastercraft only. (I know, Mastercraft is fine.)

    Granted, DC's will vary within Quests of the same Level.
    Granted, DC's may differ from each other in the SAME Quest.

    You have a GOOD chance to be able to Find Traps and Secret Stuff "at Level".
    You have a BETTER than GOOD chance to Disable Traps "at Level".
    (But not guaranteed)
    So be careful. Remember, you don't HAVE to diable all traps, and sometimes it might be advisable NOT to.

  4. #1484
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    For the time being, insure you are not using any Rogues Tools that have a "+".
    Normal and Mastercraft only. (I know, Mastercraft is fine.
    I put the "good" tools in the bank last night, and replaced them with Mastercraft tools from Marketplace Vendor before logging out.

    I have to admit, the "new skin" Cogs has had to put on is interesting, even if he feels like he is constantly being forced to "wear" enhancements and adopt skills that are quite alien to his original concept. I've still no idea how or why a Rogue would have the ability to "cast" a Tanglefoot Acid spell! The one time I used it was last night, and it was actually quite effective and even fun to watch! I can see more points being directed toward that "spell casting" branch of his enhancement tree in the future... just because poor Cogs is now intrigued by the possibilities! *face/palm*

    We may not have completed the quest, but no one can say we did not learn a great deal during the chase! My grin-n-giggle muscles are still aching today!

    -Sam

  5. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post

    We may not have completed the quest, but no one can say we did not learn a great deal during the chase! My grin-n-giggle muscles are still aching today!

    -Sam
    What quest did you run?

  6. #1486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    What quest did you run?
    We attempted Hide in plain sight at Normal difficulty.
    It was a 3 hour attempt, and really challanging!
    We lost one of the Rangers early on when we were ambushed and somehow he recalled before explaining to him how to re-enter.
    The remaining 5 pushed on to the end fight and could not defeat the last 2 monsters who kept healing each other.

    This was a tough one for our group and we look forward to trying again once we are able.

  7. #1487
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    We attempted Hide in plain sight at Normal difficulty.
    It was a 3 hour attempt, and really challanging!
    We lost one of the Rangers early on when we were ambushed and somehow he recalled before explaining to him how to re-enter.
    The remaining 5 pushed on to the end fight and could not defeat the last 2 monsters who kept healing each other.

    This was a tough one for our group and we look forward to trying again once we are able.

    That's a fun one. Lots of traps too.

  8. #1488
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default STATS galore...

    Calibhan (28pt) Cleric/Cleric
    STR: 14 + 0 + 2 = 16
    DEX: 10 + 0 + 3 = 13
    CON: 13 + 1 + 0 = 14
    INT: 10 + 0 + 0 = 10
    WIS: 14 + 0 + 2 = 16
    CHA: 15 + 0 + 2 = 17

    SPOT: 3+0 =3
    SEARCH: 2+0 =2
    DISABLE: NA
    HIDE: 0
    MOVE SILENT: 0
    BLUFF: 3+0 =3



    Blodhund (32pt) Ranger/Rogue
    STR: 16 + 0 + 0 = 16
    DEX: 13 + 0 + 0 = 13
    CON: 14 + 1 + 0 = 15
    INT: 13 + 0 + 2 = 15
    WIS: 15 + 0 + 2 = 17
    CHA: 08 + 0 + 0 = 08

    SPOT: 8+3+0 = 11
    SEARCH: 7+2+2 = 11
    DISABLE: 7+2+3 = 12
    HIDE: 8+1+0 = 9
    MOVE SILENT: 8+1+0 = 9
    BLUFF: -1



    Vinegarune (32pt) Paladin/Rogue
    STR: 13 + 0 + 0 = 13
    DEX: 15 + 1 + 1 = 17
    CON: 13 + 0 + 1 = 14
    INT: 10 + 0 + 0 = 10
    WIS: 12 + 0 + 0 = 12
    CHA: 16 + 0 + 0 = 16

    SPOT: 8+1+0 = 09
    SEARCH: 6+0+0 = 06
    DISABLE: N/A
    HIDE: 4+3+4 = 11
    MOVE SILENT: 6+3+2 = 11
    BLUFF: 6+3+1 = 10

  9. #1489
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    My first thought is I don't like your suggestion of further artificially crippling people's choices in their character builds. These sorts of limits should be considered only if we see it as actually causing a problem during play.

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Disclaimer: The following is opinion, intended for a select group of people and for Normal Difficulty only.

    From examining the Quest DC's and Skill progression, it becomes evident that in low levels, normal skill progression outpaces Quest DC's.
    This was also the case pre-expansion, but now the DC progression starts at a lower value.

    Normal progression for a character who has Spot and/or Search as a Class Skill can use of Skill Focus and Alertness and Improved Skills to keep themselves viable for Detection once they are past Levels 8-10.

    Depending on the Class/Race, the new enhancement system has the potential to WAY offset Spot/Search and Disable abilities.
    This offset WILL be needed in upper levels on Normal Difficulty, but can render Trapping a "non-issue" at lower levels.

    One suggestion I'll make to the Fellowship is that Disable can not exceed the Higher of Spot or Search by more than 4.
    What this will do is elliminate Items with vast Skill Bonuses and keep kind of a "Cap" on Disable to ~70%.
    A Rogue should never have a high chance to Disable "at Level". That's just good role-playing.

    A second suggestion that we are considering is placing a minimum Level on the Tiers of the enhancement system.
    The system has Tiers for a reason. We can use that.
    So far we are considering a minimum Level of 8 for 1st Tiers enhancements.
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  10. #1490
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    That video was way more interesting than I thought it would be.

    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    The video below is something I read today and is quite interesting.

    With the advent of Quest DC's being lowered on Normal Difficulty and the possibility of a balance threat in the Treasure Tables, this Guild may have to take some definitive steps to keep it viable.

    These steps may cause some of you to question why you're here, but hey, if you have to question it, maybe you weren't sure in the first place.

    [/QUOTE]
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

  11. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
    My first thought is I don't like your suggestion .....
    That's why we're discussing them.
    The direction DDO is going might further complicate playstyles that do NOT involve Gear and Metagaming.
    Granted, we all understood this all along.

    As always, suggestions are discussed before being considered official.

    Topic #1 Traps on Normal are more "fun" than dangerous. When Disable Skill is 6 or more above the Traps DC, the chance of Critical Failure (Explosion) is 5%. I would consider this a role-playing problem.
    My suggestion of a limit of 5 above the Quest DC would maintain about a 75% success rate.
    A Rogue at 4th Level, with NO Feats or Enhancements that alter Spot, Search and Disarm can have a Score of 9 in each, while (so far), 4th Level Quests seem to have a Trap DC Base of 6 on Normal.

    As Levels progress, this eventually reverses around 10th, where a 50-50 Success rate NEEDS to have Skill Focus and/or Numble Fingers.
    Plus the New Enhancements have MANY additions for Trapping.

    It is my opinion that, for our playstyle, Items that add Spot, Search and/or Disarm MAY NOT be neccessary.
    Any item that aids the Trapping Skills are best used at much higher levels. At lower levels these items can take away some of the "fun" by making Traps a non-issue.

    As I said, this is suggestion. If anyone has facts or opinions to debate, this is what this is for.

  12. #1492
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    When Disable Skill is 6 or more above the Traps DC, the chance of Critical Failure (Explosion) is 5%.
    A character with a disable skill 6 higher than the trap DC will never critically fail disarming a trap. You don't fail disabling a trap on a '1,' you fail if your total adjusted roll is 5 lower than the trap DC.


    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    My suggestion of a limit of 5 above the Quest DC would maintain about a 75% success rate.

    If you want trappers to succeed in disarming the trap 75% of the time, the trapper would only need to have a DD skill 6 lower than the trap DC, and then he would only have a 5% chance for the trap to explode (an adjusted roll of 5 under the trap DC). Roll of 1 = boom, 2-4 = failure but can attempt again, 5+ = success.


    If you want trappers to have 25% chance to have the trap box explode, the trapper would need to have a DD skill 10 lower than the trap DC. That would mean rolls of 1-5 = BOOM! Rolls 6-9 would fail, but another attempt could be made. Rolls of 10 or higher would succeed.


    Current loot rules will prevent anyone in THACO from acquiring top tier disable device gear, so you might just restrict thieves tools to the +0 variety and see how it goes.


    A Rogue at 4th Level, with NO Feats or Enhancements that alter Spot, Search and Disarm can have a Score of 9 in each, while (so far), 4th Level Quests seem to have a Trap DC Base of 6 on Normal.
    If this were true, rogues would never fail to disarm a trap. If a character's DD skill is higher than the trap DC, he can't roll lower than the trap DC.

  13. #1493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    I have to admit, the "new skin" Cogs has had to put on is interesting, even if he feels like he is constantly being forced to "wear" enhancements and adopt skills that are quite alien to his original concept. I've still no idea how or why a Rogue would have the ability to "cast" a Tanglefoot Acid spell!
    No one ever said their character HAD to have any enhancements.
    If they don't "fit", don't wear them.

    On another note, it seems Undying Call is broken as a Feat. Nothing I have tried is working.

  14. #1494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post

    If you want trappers to succeed in disarming the trap 75% of the time, the trapper would only need to have a DD skill 6 lower than the trap DC, and then he would only have a 5% chance for the trap to explode (an adjusted roll of 5 under the trap DC). Roll of 1 = boom, 2-4 = failure but can attempt again, 5+ = success.
    To Disarm a Trap, you need 6 points more than the Trap's DC.
    I MAY be wrong but..........
    (Just spent 2 hours confirming these facts.
    TRAP DC =6 means DISARM DC of 12.
    Example DISARM MOD= +6 (5 SKILL plus normal tools)

    d20 roll of "1" + 6 = 7 Boom.
    d20 roll of "2" + 6 = 8 Boom.
    d20 roll of "3" + 6 = 9 Boom.
    d20 roll of "4" + 6 = 10 Boom.
    d20 roll of "5" + 6 = 11 Boom.
    d20 roll of "6" + 6 = 12 Fail.
    d20 roll of "7" + 6 = 13 Fail.
    d20 roll of "8" + 6 = 14 Fail.
    d20 roll of "9" + 6 = 15 Fail.
    d20 roll of "10" + 6 = 16 Success
    d20 roll of "11" + 6 = 17 Success
    d20 roll of "12" + 6 = 18 Success.
    d20 roll of "13" + 6 = 19 Success.
    d20 roll of "14" + 6 = 20 Success.
    d20 roll of "15" + 6 = 21 Success.
    d20 roll of "16" + 6 = 22 Success.
    d20 roll of "17" + 6 = 23 Success.
    d20 roll of "18" + 6 = 24 Success.
    d20 roll of "19" + 6 = 25 Success.
    d20 roll of "20" + 6 = 26 Success.


    Looks to me like 25% Boom, 45% Non-Success and 55% Success?
    Overall a 75% chance to NOT "Boom".

    Like I said, No more than 5 "ABOVE" Trap DC.
    A Trap "Disarm" DC is Trap "Search" DC PLUS 6.
    This is a CHANGE from last year when it was 10.
    Last edited by intruder1; 08-31-2013 at 12:22 PM.

  15. #1495
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default No wonder both Cogs and Sam have taken up booze in jugs!

    *Cogs demonstrates correct technique of sippin' from a jug, by hooking a index finger through the circular "handle", then swinging the body of the jug to nestle on top of his crooked elbow, then lifting the elbow as his lips eagerly seek the mouth of the jug.... repeat as often as necessary*

    Personally, I am wondering why the fascination (*glares accusingly at intruder1*) about seeing five in twenty trap boxes explode in Cogs face! All I can come up with is that Cogs is young and handsome, while Tukcc is ugly, old, wrinkled, with horrible scars. Cogs and I both suspect that intruder1 is bowing to envious character whispers in his ears as he sleeps!

    -Sam *Grin*

  16. #1496
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    To Disarm a Trap, you need 6 points more than the Trap's DC.
    I MAY be wrong but..........
    (Just spent 2 hours confirming these facts.
    TRAP DC =6 means DISARM DC of 12.

    I honestly don't understand what you mean by this. How are you defining 'trap DC?' By how many ranks in the spot skill you need to spot it?


    Traps have three DCs: spot, search, and disable. Those three DCs do not follow a strict formula, such as "the spot DC is 6, so the search DC will be 6 and the disarm DC will be 12." This might be true in some of the quests that you have personally checked, but this does not hold true for every quest.


    Take DCs for the acid trap in Heyton's rest for example:
    Quote Originally Posted by http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Traps_and_locks
    -----------NORMAL-----HARD-----ELITE

    SPOT--------2----------2----------9
    SEARCH------2----------2----------9
    DISABLE------13----------17----------21

    Or the DCs for the blade traps in Redemption:

    Quote Originally Posted by http://ddowiki.com/page/DDO_information_project/Traps_and_locks
    -----------NORMAL-----HARD-----ELITE

    SPOT--------3----------4----------4
    SEARCH-----6----------6----------6
    DISABLE-----13----------21----------21
    Last edited by Postumus; 08-31-2013 at 07:21 PM.

  17. #1497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    *Cogs demonstrates correct technique of sippin' from a jug, by hooking a index finger through the circular "handle", then swinging the body of the jug to nestle on top of his crooked elbow, then lifting the elbow as his lips eagerly seek the mouth of the jug.... repeat as often as necessary*

    Personally, I am wondering why the fascination (*glares accusingly at intruder1*) about seeing five in twenty trap boxes explode in Cogs face! All I can come up with is that Cogs is young and handsome, while Tukcc is ugly, old, wrinkled, with horrible scars. Cogs and I both suspect that intruder1 is bowing to envious character whispers in his ears as he sleeps!

    -Sam *Grin*
    Yer a funny guy!
    As much as I know you hate failing to disarm, we DID have more than a little fun solving traps without disarming them. Traps should not have an "easy button".
    Have faith old friend.......this is not a hastily thought out idea. By the time I suggest something to you guys, I've pondered the "what if's" quite a bit.

  18. #1498
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I honestly don't understand what you mean by this. How are you defining 'trap DC?' By how many ranks in the spot skill you need to spot it?


    Traps have three DCs: spot, search, and disable. Those three DCs do not follow a strict formula, such as "the spot DC is 6, so the search DC will be 6 and the disarm DC will be 12." This might be true in some of the quests that you have personally checked, but this does not hold true for every quest.


    Take DCs for the acid trap in Heyton's rest for example:



    Or the DCs for the blade traps in Redemption:
    True, some traps vary within each Quest, sometimes.
    Traps can vary from Quest to Quest, again, sometimes.
    But they do have a "mean" value. The differences are the exception, not the rule.

    In every case I've tested, Spot equals Search, and Disable exceeds Search by an amount that stays generally constant.
    In answering your statement, I used Sunken Sewer and Ringleader as the test.
    First I started with a character with 2 in spot and search. He could not find the traps.
    Re-rolled the character with a 3 in each. This time he found them.
    This set the DC at 3 on Normal.

    Then.......
    Set the character up with Spot and Search of 3, then Disarm of 2.
    When using the normal tools, this made his disarm a 3 also.
    Then i disarmed the traps closest to the entry over and over, exiting and reseting the Quest until I had enough different dice rolls to bracket the "success to Boom" results.
    I was able to test 5 or 6 traps this way and made the dice roll the only variable.
    The results were vary accurate.

    Again, I know not all Quests maintain this DC, but most do.
    Using this "average" as a guide keeps a character "in range" without actually giving him a Quest by Quest "heads up". I'm not trying to measure exactly(except for SPOT), just trying to insure he neither has to little nor too much of a chance.
    He will have an "idea" what it might be, but not exactly.

    Curiously, in doing this I DID measure WAY different OPEN LOCK DC's.
    I did not measure 1st level Quests because I do not think they are important to us.

    If you see some error in my research, I'm very interested. Please explain with details so I can see for myself.

  19. #1499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post

    Take DCs for the acid trap in Heyton's rest for example:



    Or the DCs for the blade traps in Redemption:
    Oh, since you've quoted the WIKI..... the information in the WIKI is submitted by players who just report what results they have with current equipment.
    They may not be measuring the way I do, 1 point at a time.
    I also try to break the results down to just the dice roll and roll DOZENS of times to get the results.

    Also, Trap DC's have changed many times over the past 2 years. The most recent was just about a week ago and changed things a lot. I'm not sure the WIKI is that current.

  20. #1500
    2015 DDO Players Council Hazelnut's Avatar
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    Talking The Monday Night Adventure.

    It took me a week to figure out how to write it up to be worthy of the fun we had. In the end, it may have turned into something a bit more artistic and a lot less detailed. Violette (Veyeolette because all the good spellings were taken) was the only one to walk out alive. She is one tough little Halfling.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5088066
    Zyinniah Hazelnut and Curissa Hazelnut on most servers.

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