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  1. #1061
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Naturally, this did not set well with the Spellcasters.
    Funny how that works when the shoe is on the other foot. Jab jab.... lol


    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Take a look at your "Storm" characters and apply a limit of 8 ML's (3x2.5, rounded up) and see how that "fits" in relation to the current 3 "potentials".
    I'll check out Jedial tonight. I think he has:

    Axebane bracers (ML0=1).
    +1 Greatsword of Maiming <-- Thanks Cadrod! (Don't recall the ML... 1 or 2 maybe)

    So yeah, I'll be better equipped by a good bit at L3.

  2. #1062
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    I wonder if a group of low level characters with NO magic Items at all could manage a Quest AT LEVEL on Normal Difficulty?
    Or an 8th Level group in an 8th Level Quest on Normal?
    Easily.

  3. #1063
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Jedial has the items quoted above, plus the Korthos Protectors set. So he is using a total of 4 magic items, and using a 1 for item with no ML (bracers, gloves, necklace) and the sword which is ML2, that totals 5 out of the 8 allowed.

    Using "potentials + free Korthos set" I am maxed out.

    Also, a quick check of a level 7 new character (from VET2 status) revealed that the starting items add up (for a barbarian) to a total ML of 20 for 9 items:

    6 items with no ML
    1 item ML4
    2 items ML5

    That is very close to the 18ML that would be allowed with this system. Leave off the Goggles of Insight and Engraved Ring, and you are down to 7 items and total ML18 for this level 7 character.

  4. #1064
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora View Post
    Jedial has the items quoted above, plus the Korthos Protectors set. So he is using a total of 4 magic items, and using a 1 for item with no ML (bracers, gloves, necklace) and the sword which is ML2, that totals 5 out of the 8 allowed.

    Using "potentials + free Korthos set" I am maxed out.

    Also, a quick check of a level 7 new character (from VET2 status) revealed that the starting items add up (for a barbarian) to a total ML of 20 for 9 items:

    6 items with no ML
    1 item ML4
    2 items ML5

    That is very close to the 18ML that would be allowed with this system. Leave off the Goggles of Insight and Engraved Ring, and you are down to 7 items and total ML18 for this level 7 character.
    Great. Good info.
    When some of the other "Storm" characters check in, they can compare too.
    Until everyone has a chance to render there oppinions, better not put another system over the current.
    Note this has implications to Wands.
    Scrolls have an ML, but I wouldn't say a "one shot" item with an ML of 3 should be treated as such.
    Bolts and Arrows are similar.

    Last night we discussed experimenting with a party of "Classic" characters with no Magic Items trying a DDO Quest.
    It is assumed that the Quest would have to be played at Normal, maybe even Casual Difficulty.
    It would be interesting to see how they could manage.

  5. #1065
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    Discussed this system with Kerik, Grondley, Cogs and Cali.
    I think it has a LOT of potential () but results emerge depending on your class.
    When assessed against the "Current" loadout.
    Spellcasters were a couple points OVER the limit, while Melees may find themselves capable of bringing a little more into an Adventure.

    Naturally, this did not set well with the Spellcasters.

    It was suggested to add a .5 to the factor.
    At this point it NEEDS experimentation and above all other considerations, should not exceed the typical loadout of a Classic Character.

    Take a look at your "Storm" characters and apply a limit of 8 ML's (3x2.5, rounded up) and see how that "fits" in relation to the current 3 "potentials".
    Is that a total of 8 ML's across three items? Or 8MLs across any number of items?

    If the former, and Cadrod (level 3) can only have 1/item per level with a max ML value of 8, then he would have:

    +3 perform cloak (ML1)
    axebane (ML0)
    +1 shocktouch q-staff (ML1)


    If the latter, and if Cadrod can have any number of magic items that add up to ML 8, then he could have:

    axebane (ML0)
    +3 perform cloak (ML1)
    devoted goggles (ML0)
    devoted necklace (ML0)
    +1 shocktouch q-staff (ML1)
    featherfall cloak (ML0)
    expeditious boots (ML 0)
    engraved ring (ML0)
    arcane gloves (ML0)
    rugged belt (ML0)
    discarded ring (ML0)
    tattered cowl (ML0)
    +1 chain (ML1)
    +1 shield (ML1)

  6. #1066
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post

    Last night we discussed experimenting with a party of "Classic" characters with no Magic Items trying a DDO Quest.
    It is assumed that the Quest would have to be played at Normal, maybe even Casual Difficulty.
    It would be interesting to see how they could manage.
    You should be just fine... even without heal potions. I honestly don't think you'd have a problem completing the Korthos Island quests on hard either.

  7. #1067
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    If the latter, and if Cadrod can have any number of magic items that add up to ML 8, then he could have:
    ML0 = ML1
    We don't have 0 Level Characters.

  8. #1068
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Levels vs potential...

    On Grondley, the current 'potential' and 'administrative' items number 5; the potential is 7 and half of them aren't counted to their real potential. If we count his items by min level, they sum to 20. A good mix of items would include a robe/armor; mod fort belt; 2 weapons/shield or wand and scepter; a stat booster and something else like extra weapon, + con or false life, spell pen/power, trap gear, or AC. A slight increase to (level*3)in what we have to work with is justified by the near invulnerability of some monsters to a single weapon type. Since I can change spells based on the quest, the melees should have a few choices of 'stick' to use. Augments would blend right in and since their level cost is rather steep, we can limit 1 augment per character. Storm at level 2 would have 5 'levels' which on Narcene would be armor, +2 bow(2), +1 dex ring and space for a melee weapon; potential would total 6.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  9. #1069
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    Situation: You're playing "Classic" Non-Ebberon Campaign. In your adventuring, you expect Magic treasure to be in accordance with the DMG. What IS that exactly?
    While there is no exact measure, the treasure tables award Magic Items sparingly. Yes, a DM WOULD make sure the party had the right tools, but otherwise it's up to fate.

    If you read the DMG, you do have guidelines for how to outfit an NPC character with Magic. it is assumed that the outfitting would be inferior to your character because......well......you're the HERO! You SHOULD be better outfitted.

    Example: An 8th Level NPC might possess 0-3 Minor, 0-2 Moderate and 0-1 Major Magic Items.
    Notice he MAY have all, some or none of the above.

    As a Player character, you would expect to have some or all in order to be the Hero.

    Now we go to DDO.....Ebberon......with it's "Monty Haul" Magic System.

    We all know Monsters in DDO are given 100+% of everything. Therefore, Player Characters must have at LEAST 100% or a "Basic" allowance just to be considered "Classic".

    Looking at the 3.5 Ed DMG, NPC's are getting ANY Magic Items based on Class.
    Spellcasters get Magic Items at 4th Level, Fighters get them at 6th level and Rogues get them at 7th Level!

    But how do we play "Classic" in a "Monty Haul" environment?
    Situation: Your Party meets to adventure, you've established a "rule" to equip each character with 100% of the Magic Items you'd expect them to have aquired thus far in their career. That way, your characters might be on a par with the Monsters in a Quest, assuming you've selected the appropriate Quest Level and Difficulty.

    You go adventuring and afterwards, you've collected gobs of Magic from the Ebberon environment.
    Now what you have to do is examine your total collection of Magic Items, decide which ones might replace items in your loadout, store items that are of value and dispose of everything else.
    Your Magic "Rule" changes with your level, allowing a greater selection as you progress.

    Thus, each time you begin an adventure, you're outfitted with a "Classic" assortment of Magic.
    That is the basis of the THAC0 Magic System.


    For the last year, THAC0 has used a system that was based on the "potential" in the upper right corner of the item description box. That worked kinda well, but there were items that did not have "potentials" and different classifications had to be used. Added to this were "free" items and such. It worked, but was unclear.

    Another system has been suggested that uses the Minimum Level (ML) as a "Value". The good part of this is that EVERYTHING has a minimum level.

    If you give a 4th level character a limit of 1 ML per level, he gets +2 Chain or Half-Plate and a +2 Longsword.
    If that character is a Spellcaster, he could get a +3 Robe of Protection and a +1 Dagger of Undead Bane.

    While that would be appropriate for an NPC developed in 2nd Edition, it wouldn't really be effective for DDO.

    So, giving a character 2 ML's per level SHOULD be alright, maybe even 2.5, but more than that gets to be "Geared Up" too quickly.

    So THIS is the guideline I would suggest to the members of THAC0.

    As an added note, I noticed something really great about the Base Values of an item.
    It seems the base Value is a constant 400 per ML of each item!
    In upper levels, SOME Magic Items are actually stronger than the ML indicates, but the Base Value INDICATES it.
    Additionally, the Base Value of things like Ammo, Wands and such increases according to Level or effect.
    Even more surprising is that the Value DECREASES as the Items gets permanent damage, expends charges or quantity.

    This is interesting.
    Last edited by intruder1; 04-05-2013 at 10:41 AM.

  10. #1070
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    "No Magic" Campaign.

    Conducted by "Man-at-Arms"
    A non-exceptional Halfling who could be a man of many "hats", just not exceptional at any one.

    He'a a Bard by definition, but with 0 points in perform can't sing a note!
    STR 10 DEX 12 CON 12 WIS 14 INT 14 CHA 16

    Can fight, draw a bow, "sneak" (hide and silent), Spot, Jump, Tumble, UMD
    Just not exceptional at any one thing.

    Can cast Cure Light Wounds.
    Can use most any Armor and/or Shield.

    (Now THIS is what is gonna get you!)
    The ONLY items allowed from ANY chest are Coins, Gems, Potions, Scrolls and MASTERWORK Armor, Weapons and Ammo.
    End Reward Items and ALL Magic Items are to be Sold at Quest completion at the Tavern. No saving anything for future use.

    Quests are run "at level" on Normal Difficulty.

    Encumberance Rule is in effect. 10% of the "Max Allowable" figure in the Inventory Window.

    Look up "ManatArmss" on Thelanis.

  11. #1071
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    "No Magic" Campaign.

    [snip]

    Look up "ManatArmss" on Thelanis.
    What class/race restrictions?
    Rolling stats or does the player build per normal DDO?
    Shrines?

    In other words, are the ONLY rules "no magic, quests done at level on normal, 10% encumbrance" or do the other THACO rules also apply?

  12. #1072
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fedora View Post
    What class/race restrictions?
    Rolling stats or does the player build per normal DDO?
    Shrines?

    In other words, are the ONLY rules "no magic, quests done at level on normal, 10% encumbrance" or do the other THACO rules also apply?
    Same ruleset as THAC0.
    This is a VERY tight experiment into old school playstyle.
    I know YOU understand what I'm talking about.
    Were there any Shrines in the game in 1980?
    The race restrictions are for the reason that some of them are OP.
    Stats are ALWAYS rolled at random.

  13. #1073
    Community Member zefjoe's Avatar
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    Default No magic?? At all??

    What are your plans for questing with him?
    Why no Bard songs?
    Looking for company?
    :0

  14. #1074
    Community Member Zorth's Avatar
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    D&D and DDO are not the same.

    This online game just has the name Dungeons and Dragons and is nothing like the pnp version.

    The knowledge of what we want in an online game.

    To be so extreme.

    Once we die that is it.

    Strict rules.

    Conan the Barbarian type of play with little to no magic and one plain of existance. With little to rare sorcery.

    The game would have to have a random roll of stats that we cannot change when we make our characters.
    Do we really want this?
    The Blood of the Red Dragon

  15. #1075
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    What are your plans for questing with him?
    Why no Bard songs?
    Looking for company?
    :0
    Cause he's NOT a Bard. People keep MISTAKING him for one.
    He's JUST a MAN-AT-ARMS.....Hirling.....Average Joe.

  16. #1076
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    Quote Originally Posted by zefjoe View Post
    Looking for company?
    :0
    Yep.

  17. #1077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorth View Post
    D&D and DDO are not the same.

    This online game just has the name Dungeons and Dragons and is nothing like the pnp version.

    The knowledge of what we want in an online game.

    To be so extreme.

    Once we die that is it.

    Strict rules.

    Conan the Barbarian type of play with little to no magic and one plain of existance. With little to rare sorcery.

    The game would have to have a random roll of stats that we cannot change when we make our characters.
    Do we really want this?
    No....I would guess the majority of players in DDO would not.
    But then again, I guess I can make it anything I want if I'm just one of a few like-minded souls.

  18. #1078
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    Default Day 1

    Manatarmss just spent his first day in Korthos.
    Upon Entry, the Korthos storyline was bypassed and EVERYTHING but the Battleworn Breatplate was sold off.
    Off he would go to the Harbor to outfit himself for adventuring.
    The "25" Platinum that his Mother gave to him outfitted him with a Rapier, a small wooden shield, a Bow and (100) arrows.
    He purchased (5) Normal Rations from the Tavern and made his way back to korthos.

    His Armor, Weapons and Backpack weighed him down considerably.
    He would have liked to purchase a Quiver and a few more arrows, but that would have been too much to carry.

    He completed Heytons Rest, The Storehouses Secret, The Cannith Crystal and The Collaborator.
    The Encounters in each quest were not real tough, but DID depleat resources and some hit points, just like they're supposed to.
    Breakables yielded Copper, Silver and a few Cure Light Potions.
    The issue I try to solve is how to simulate Magic treasure from 2nd Ed.
    Again, it was back to the DMG.

    It is quoted that "Treasure containing Magic Items should only have a 1 in 5, to 1 in 10 chance".
    What I did was prior to opening any Chest, I rolled a 10 sided dice because in DDO, EVERY Chest has Magic Items in it, FOR EVERY CHARACTER THAT EXAMINES IT.
    So...I chose to use a d10 and have to roll a "1" for any Magic in a Chest to be obtained. Otherwise all Magic except Potions and Scrolls are left in the Chest.

    At the end of the 4 Quests , yielded to me was 4 Masterwork Weapons, a few Normal and Masterwork Arrows, Gold and Gems. EXCELLENT!

    After each Quest, the End Quest Item was immediately sold at the Tavern.

    Don't condemn this playstyle just because Magic is Rare and it's not played at Elite Difficulty.
    The monsters had very close the same Hit Points as the Character and there were some hair-raising moments when it was unsure exactly who would die at the final encounter!

    This character has 4 or 5 Skills that have values of 4 in them. These allowed limited Sneaking and Spotting.
    In Heytons Rest, he was able to sneak up on monsters and strike, tho NOT with Backstab.
    He was able to Spot the Trap AND the Control Box, tho did not have the knowledge to disarm it.
    He was able to Heal his own wounds, tho this ability HAD limits.

    All in all, a very enjoyable game without Magic.


    I would be interested in doing thiese Quests again with 2, 4 and 6 character parties to see what is presented.

  19. #1079
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    I think the "1 in 10" chance of pulling Magic Items from a Chest has a lot of potential.
    After considering how rare Magic will be doing this, it could serve as the ONLY rule neccessary in a Magic Limitation Guideline.

    The problem would be.......do you have enough will power to "just say no" if you don't roll a "1"?

    Even after seeing what was in there?

    TURBINE: Since almost EVERYBODY who "Gears" plays Elite or Hard.....would it be THAT much trouble to make Treasure in Normal Difficulty apply a 10% chance of finding Magic Items (other than Scrolls and Potions) in Chests?

    Heck, you could make Normal cater to Classic Gameplay and Hard/Elite cater to Ebberon. That MIGHT please both camps.
    Last edited by intruder1; 04-09-2013 at 09:22 AM.

  20. #1080
    Community Member Fedora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    The problem would be.......do you have enough will power to "just say no" if you don't roll a "1"?

    Even after seeing what was in there?
    I could on ONE condition - that being I could take the item(s) and put them in my inventory long enough to haul them to a shared bank account to equip other toons. At least this way I would have incentive to try out the play style w/o bemoaning that nagging thought of "what a waste to just leave it there"....

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