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  1. #601
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Posted on notice boards in Sormreach Inns, Taverns, and Baudy Houses.

    =

    WANTED!

    Brave Warrior to join a small group of friends who do odd jobs for coin and found treasure.

    Must provide your own armor and weapons, to include ranged, with skills to use them effectively.

    If interested, please leave a message for Tukcc (intruder1) at the bar. You may also express interest to any member of THACO Fellowship Guild, if they are reasonably sober.

    P.S. No Evil person, nor Warforged need apply.

    (( OOC - If you want to try D&D Style Roleplaying a Fighter, Barbarian, or Paladin, with a dynamic and creative bunch that include an intercontental spanning variety of folks, who will keep your grin muscles and ribs sore from laughing, give us a shout! Referee skills will add to your value! ))

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  2. #602
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    Default Steps to playing DDO more like D&D

    This is sort of a recap of this experiment and an invitation for suggestions.

    Step 1) Reduce Magic Items from DDO gamestyle in order to focus on Skills, Feats and Enhancements.

    D&D was very restrictive in Magic Item use. The combat procedure was (IMO) pretty well balanced.
    As it stands now in DDO, a 1st level fighter with at least average strength can hit ANY Armor Class (modified dice roll of 20) 10% of the time. If he stands still, that percentage increases with his sequences of strikes.
    (Note that this applies to ANY class at level 1)

    At 6th level, Tukcc will score hits at least 70% of the time to any AC because of his BAB, 17 Strength Bonus and preferred weapon bonus. Add to that using a weapon that delivers more Critical Hits than the standard sword plus the sequence bonus and he's pretty good at 1 on 1 combat.
    Thru testing, it's been demonstrated that (against a roughly equal opponent) he can deflect hits 75% of the time unless his opponent has a lucky streak. That chance increases to around 95% if he hunkers down behind his shield.

    At 6th level, Cogoiler (Rogue) has quite a few roles that he's actually pretty good at. Scouting, Backstabbing, not to mention Ranged Combat.
    Playing at Elite Difficulty has required an administrative "offset" (I will NOT use the term BUFF )to compensate for DDO's increased DC's at that difficulty. In the future, that will have to be increased because the per level, rate of DC increase is more than his skills can keep up with.

    At 6th Level, Cogoiler, Azzlorn, Grondley and Kierik have begun their journey along their Presige Class path. This has increased their potential amazingly.
    "Devestating" is the term I will use to describe their lethality in certain niches.
    From being ubber Undead Bain, to what translates into almost being the equivilent of a Fire Elemental, to being what I expect is close to becoming a Liche!

    All of this without a whole lot of Magic Items.

    Where the group is weak is in Tactics, but that's a subject for another post.

  3. #603
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    Default I'm a Roleplayer not a Tactician

    Healed in enough adventuring groups in my short time in Stormreach to know how difficult and often thankless role it is. What a wonderous feeling it was and still is when this band of character's write(even play songs a time ago) me into their tales. As party healer i've struggled and been dismayed that even with my generous healing power's they alone have not been enough. As we face more difficult times ahead, i've started buying my heal wand from House Jurasco, The cure wand is an essential crutch for our band of fellow's, with my good nature buying it is a pleasure. Paladin i'm not however. ^thinks to himself^ 'i've allways taken no thought of petty 'codes of honour' that hamper my role, so from now on I'll just consider it a dispoable item like bolts or rogue tools'. With that problem sorted, i go back to polishing my................
    Oh Yes
    Next week you will see me in my new amour, After our last foray, rummaging through the treasure's i'd found, It was an unusual mix, throwing the 2 pair's of stale smelling boots aside, i looked closer at the shield. ^thinks^ 'it looks more sturdy than mine', doing a quick add-up, what i knew already was true the magic would overload me. Intrigued still by the better looking and well made shield, i put it to one side. Then YES once i'd given it a rub with my shirt sleeve, revealed gold embellished amour more fitting of a eccentric half elf such as me. Pleased with this find and putting the eagerness to give it a jolly good clean to the back of my mind, i had a closer look at the shield. It's certainly better workmanship than mine ^i wonder^, so with shield strapped onto my back i take a stroll to the house cannith magic making hall. The first person i saw looked at me incrediously when i asked "I just want the magic taken off the shield". "why would you want to spoil it so" came his reply "so no-one will 'nick-it' because i want to hang it up on the wall in my lodging" was my answer not wanting to give the real reason for fear of more incredulous looks. Purchasing the magic removing dust and pointed to what cubicle to use, rather warily i stood in front of the whirling cluncking machine. Taking 2 steps back from the stange contraption before chucking the shield and dust into the funnel, i jumped as the thing clanged and banged into action. With arms outstretched i retrieved my sheild from its grasp, had my idea worked? Looking closey i smiled ^fantastic^ it had. Soon i was hanging up my old shield on my lodging wall. Tripping over the boots i vowed, i'll throw them into the sea when i go to the salty wench later. Something shiny caught my eye as i kicked them, quickly diving under the bed i grabbed them caring not who had worn them before. Rushing out into the street, i pushed the boots into the face of the first wizard i saw and exclaimed "what's this?". Luckily for me i thought later, the now invisible wizard just said "go to the guild podium in house kundarak". Off i go again in search for answer's to problems i'm forced to find to stay alive. I soon found out the shiny bit on the boots was in fact a tiny guild slot. "Him on the bottom step sell's things you can put in 'em". Sitting on the step, marvel'ed in this discovery my smile broadened.but i soon grimaced 'does it all add up?' as my delight turned to cal-ul-ish-ca-shons. Picturing in my mind my(allready sparkling) gold embellished armour, the 2 parts of the rather dusty ^thinks^'rather demeaning to be seen out with it on'' devoted set i got as a reward for my/our brave efforts,and success in saving korthos, a light fortification belt which i quested for as you really don't want hear the answer i really wanted to say when offered a stinking filthy excretement coated orge loin cloth!!! and my soon to be waxed and polished 5% striding boots with tiny guild slot filled with enough divine storage to cast a spell or two.

    I'm saddened to read that you found Venn lifeless, and saw your sorrow at his decent burial. I hope now you see the consequences of leaving quests un-done, I read your story in the chronicle a few months ago, how you all left the poor farmer in the hills to his fate before at the last minute saving his farmstead("lucky there wer'nt ya"). Who 'knows' what will happen if we fail in our quests, indeed who 'knows' that we are not part of some long term evil-doer's plan. But i do 'know' sometimes at our expence innocent folk die and worse .
    To me Azzlorn, Stormreach is a new wonderous place filled with the strangest creatures, smartist adventurer's, startling magic, but most of all stricken and in need folk's. Fighting for the cause of honour comes second place to fighting for the cause of good.

    ^Ponder's as i hand in my latest news flash to the chronicle^ it is so soul-destroying to to see your life-less body carried so often back from the latest quest. It destroyed a favoured soul you all used to know, having been killed and seen his friends killed once too often was more than he could take. It is a shame and hurts a divine such as myself that death in our group is taken so lightly for want no, need yes. Failing in the pursuit of honour is a poor excuse.
    Just awestruck, wether it be a Dragon flying overhead Stormreach, that glowing character who just zoomed in'n'out of the Pub, or that i can drink a Beholder under the table and best of all rescuing Damsels in distress.

  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    This is sort of a recap of this experiment and an invitation for suggestions........
    Sorry bout that. Was supposed to be discussing restricted Magic and ended up recapping the Adventuring Party's progress.

    If you're gonna play D&D, you have to get away from a lot of Magic items. The biggest contradiction I hear is "Well, you're not gonna get very far towards End Content!'.

    I say, "Big Deal".
    For me, it's all about what I'm doing RIGHT NOW, not later on.
    Granted, if you're gonna play Skills and Feats, you better review the Quests carefully because they all won't qualify for your gamestyle.

    If anyone started with the Basic D&D Rules, something of interest was the LACK of Magic Items available. Sure, the whole system was balanced without it's inclusion, but none the less, it was interesting to see just how rare a Magic Item was to the lower level characters.

    Note: Magic Items should ONLY be obtained thru adventuring. No AH, No Merchants and No Crafting.

    Example was from the Magic Treasure Table.

    Firstly, only 30% chance of a Treasure to contain a Magic Item at all.
    Then, lets say your looking for a Potion of Healing. (VERY COMMON in DDO)
    So, IF you rolled for 30%.....
    You then had to beat 75% to get a potion.
    Then you had a 10% chance for that potion to be Healing.
    Do the math.


    At 3rd Level in Basic D&D, a Fighter could be expected to have ...
    10% No Magic Item or
    60% a +1 Item or
    20% a +2 Item or
    10% a +3 Item

    A Guideline that I think is actually valid and even a bit generous is alllowing a character no more than 1 "potential" for each level.

    "Potential" is the little number in the upper right hand corner of the Item Description Pop up.

    If the Item does not have a Potential factor it is considered a "+1".

    One item valuable to Arcanes is the "Apprentice's Robe". Arcanes are especially vulnerable in DDO, so we decided to allow this without restriction.

    "Sets" are End rewards that consist of 2 or more parts that combine to give aditional enhancements. These would be regarded as "+1" becuase they usually are something that the character would consider valuable at lower levels and we like to give new characters a bonus.

    Recently, we have encountered Items that were obviously powerful, yet contained no Potential Factor. These are (should) be so rare as to consider them as "Divine Gifts", and therefore do not impact the Magic Item Restrictions.

    A 6th Level Elven Fighter/Cleric might have Hallowed +2 Battle Plate Armor (+4), A Belt of Light Fortification (+1), and a "Protector's Set" from Misery's Peak (+1).
    In a D&D environment, that might be considered "Good".

    To match this, you must adventure in a Quest that contains Monsters that are generally on a par with your characters.
    Last edited by intruder1; 10-22-2012 at 04:44 PM.

  5. #605
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    I tried to write my feeling's in a roleplay story and yet again get cal-ish-cul-shhons thrown back. I don't want to meta-game or play a war of attrition. Play slow yes, a challenge yes. Spending 10 mins shooting needle's into kobolds is not d+d or fun. I joined because i wanted to roleplay sadly this has become 2nd best to maths and statistics i could easily have googled myself, oh and lets not forget frequent death. Its ok you saying spell-caster's should avoid melee (and you bring monster's to them!!!!!!) with them doing the most damage and attracting unwanted attencion from monster's there is no-one to protect them. Tell you what why don't you hide and let a spellcaster bring a monster or few to you for a change to get rid of, to see what it feels like. Or like me frantically pressing button's to keep my friends alive without actually being able to watch the fight unfold or indeed actually thinking i can suceed, with the monster still attacking them and no-one capable of defending them. If they get approached and things go wrong they need someone who can kill the monster before it kills them or at least have a way to escape. All azzlorn is, is a nanny bot with a wand for a crutch. I don't remember playing D+D and some-ones character dying everyweek. I do remember the fighter (which we have'nt got) had magic armour, a sword with a shot or 2 of extra powers a potion or 2 and maybe some sort of minor 'get out of jail free' item that may or may not actually stop them waking up in some kobold excretement coated cell. More importantly could fight and kill several creature's attacking him or his friends.. None of the character's broke out into a cold sweat and started praying to the gods when faced with ac7 thaco19 kobolds and orc's. You had monsters in D+D immune to normal weapons so melee characters had 1 of those, of course after meeting their 1st immune monster without 1.
    Also many monster's don't live at the end of a looooong corridor but appear out of no-where like last week with the scorpions oh and guess what some-one died again.
    I don't remember shooting 50 bolts at enemies it was our ranger who did that with half a dozen. More importantly the monsters were controlled by a human and did'nt stand there aimlessly. What they would do is however is similar to now, rush the magic user's or who/whatever is hurting them most. Run around like headless chicken's spring to mind.
    I'm not garanteed to to turn up wensday so plan accordingly.
    Just awestruck, wether it be a Dragon flying overhead Stormreach, that glowing character who just zoomed in'n'out of the Pub, or that i can drink a Beholder under the table and best of all rescuing Damsels in distress.

  6. #606
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    Me Azzlorn has a fiery heart filled not with love but Passion. A will to do the the right thing.with other's. A head not filled with numbers but with feeling. A desire to lead an heroic life in Stormreach.. While fighting for the cause of good, codes of honour mean nothing especially when the lives of others are in jeapody. As an adventurer in Stormreach this gives me freedom from my otherwise mundane life. A chance to prove my worth to the world neigh the gods. It is the gods who play their game with mankind. . Wether it is the gods or pure luck that i find the means to defeat evil, i know not.
    Success should not be counted when the death of a friend is simply ignored. I feel worthless a mere pawn
    ,no more-so, empty and betrayed, a hollow husk pushed this way and that yay a pawn in some-one else's game and more importantly a cause i no longer believe in.


    My life as Azzlorn is 'real'. My motivation is not measured in units but in the smiles i get off people i help. I take pleasure and feel rightfully pround when songs and tales are wrote about me. Fighting for the cause of good and to help the unfortunate, not a mere pawn.

    'OUT of Character' I was attracted to the notice i saw
    Quote=Heavy Roleplayer---The story is the focus. You spend hours, sometimes days, refining and developing a background for your character. You will spend 50-75% of your time online in chat sessions acting out your characters lives, and actually playing the game with that character=.unquote

    Roleplay Roleplay Roleplay NOT testing testing 1,2,3

    It's been great and fun experimenting with you all. I've applied to join roleplaying group's elsewhere, so i will be giving that a trial and hope i find what i'm looking for. Some of you quest with me and other's outside this group. I'm allways up for for that. I will delete azzlorn in a few days so as not to lose guild renown.
    Last edited by SlowDM; 10-23-2012 at 03:05 AM.
    Just awestruck, wether it be a Dragon flying overhead Stormreach, that glowing character who just zoomed in'n'out of the Pub, or that i can drink a Beholder under the table and best of all rescuing Damsels in distress.

  7. #607
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    Just so you know.....
    NONE of my recent "statistical" posts was aimed, or referenced to you.
    It was for idle knowledge.

    But thanks for the drama. I'm sure

    Nevermind, too much drama already.

  8. #608
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    I'd like all party members to PM me with their thoughts and suggestions as to exactly what they do and don't like with our playstyle.
    No roleplaying.

    Either we have the wrong guidelines, or the wrong players.

  9. #609
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    "No Roleplaying"?

    That sort of left me confused about what you want to know... so I sent you my thoughts anyway! *Grin*

    Afterall, Roleplay was a large part of the original concept presented in first post, just as it was in original PnP D&D, although that may not be true for AD&D. I'd not know as I never played the Advanced version.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    "No Roleplaying"?

    That sort of left me confused about what you want to know... so I sent you my thoughts anyway! *Grin*

    Afterall, Roleplay was a large part of the original concept presented in first post, just as it was in original PnP D&D, although that may not be true for AD&D. I'd not know as I never played the Advanced version.
    Not that. The term I should have used is "Drama".
    If you remember, the term "Roleplaying" was actually describing just the act of playing a Fighter, Cleric, Wizard or Rogue on a tabletop by a bunch of real people sitting around a virtual tabletop.

    Detailed backstories, laborous chat sessions and that sort of stuff was optional for those who were interested, but not required.

  11. #611
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    Note from Kierik
    >-------------------------------------------------------
    I'm not interested in a "heavy RP" group. I've tried that in the past, and they always seem to end up spending 90% of the time in the tavern shooting the breeze. I want to play DDO, not join a chat room. "Light RP" isn't a playstyle - its more of a flavor added to playstyles.

    But I'd have to categorize our focus as not "RP" of any sort, but "challenge". Its not about the story, its about getting together a group of comrades to tackle what should be a difficult scenario, forcing tactics and cooperation to a degree unseen in normal DDO. The restriction on magic items, not using shrines, no potions, etc., is all aimed at forcing people to use skills, tactics, and, most importantly, each other to earn success.

    I've been mightily frustrated in RP groups becaues I have a challenge mindset, and I understand that someone with a RP mindset would be frustrated in this group. I sympathize. But honest, outside PD this is the only viable challenge group I've ever seen in DDO and I don't want it to change into an RP group.

    Give me challenge (with a light RP flavor) over story any day of the week.

    >------------------------------------------------------------------

  12. #612
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    Default Note from Kierik

    From Kierik.......

    Quote Originally Posted by kerikofgreyhawk
    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko
    =

    WE do have a problem, in what I consider a very high instance of deaths, and subsequent high number of incomplete quests that WILL become problematic when we begin chains.

    Do you really expect a character to die in the first Tomb, continue to participate through the next five in the series, and miss out on the Silver Flame Trinket, ALL the end rewards, and the EXP? Does anyone here want their character to suffer that fate? Would you call it fun?

    =
    I can only reply to 2 people at a time. Feel free to post this, if you see fit.

    About Sam's 1st Point: I don't agree that the high instances of death is a problem, per se. Most of my deaths have been mistakes on my own part in terms of not sticking to my role. And we got a TPK once because of bad party tactics. Ah well. I can live with that. I do think its a problem when we die because of something Turbine has done (i.e. update 14). Rogues shouldn't have gotten so hammered by traps, spellcasters shouldn't be getting so hammered by crits, etc. We are working this out as we go, the best we can.

    About Sam's 2nd Point: I agree about the issue with Chains. I think that there are two options. a) the dead person's soul stone gets picked up and he stays in the quest and earns completion, b) the entire party gives up the quest when a person dies. Try it again at a later date. Hopefully, we be able to raise people in the nearish future.
    My own 2 cents is.......End Rewards? Experience?

    Will you suffer THAT much that you might not get Experience every time you set foot in a Quest?
    Or miss out on that Silver Flame Trinket if I can't punch my ticket for the Chain?
    (I actually have no idea what that Trinket is)
    You "don't" have to find every hidden room, get every Treasure, Kill every Monster in order to have fun.

    You speak of Roleplaying that hardly anybody does.
    Then you play a gamestyle that cares not how long it takes to level and adopt a guideline that allows you only the fewest of Magic Items.
    Only to lament that you'll miss out on XP and that "End Reward" if your character does not get to finish a Quest Chain?

  13. #613
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    Default Dying?

    I think we need to discus what should happen when a character dies in our Guild.

    As it stands now, we are not Perma-Death.
    That means the character does not have to be re-rolled.

    As it stands now, the only consequence of dying is the player can not participate in the current Quest.
    That character can attempt the quest again solo or with alternate Guild members.

    What that amounts to is no real consequence to dying.

    Let's throw in BYOH and guess what?

    Comments please?

  14. #614
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Roleplaying diversity....

    Roleplaying can mean widely different things to different people... THAT is just becoming evident to me. "Define your terms, philosopher!"

    I can play OUR game in it's current form, and do the roleplaying in the write-up (after action reports!) that follows. Some write about the adventures, some do not. No harm done in either case.

    I can also roleplay my Cogoiler character in the game, doing so in a manner that is true to his backstory, his Skill Set and Ability Scores as rolled, just as my original D&D Rule Set suggested. (I'm willing to bet everyone is aware of Cogoiler's primary phobias and personality traits by now! *Grin*)

    The above frees each member to put as much (or as little) into the Roleplaying effort as pleases them.

    Roleplaying problem resolved?
    Last edited by Fricko; 10-23-2012 at 09:06 PM.

  15. #615
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    Default Death repeats... or not?

    10/19/2012
    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    A question came up the other night that I initially accepted, but is all about “Computer Game” vs. the “Spirit of the Classic Game“ and after pondering, don‘t think I was correct “in the Spirit of D&D“.

    Guidelines require no repeats of quests that are completed.
    Players who miss a Quest because of absence do not “make up” the Quest because that would be “Grinding” for XP and/or End Reward. ...
    Then there was this....

    10/23/2012
    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1
    As it stands now, the only consequence of dying is the player can not participate in the current Quest.
    That character can attempt the quest again solo or with alternate Guild members.

    Under Comments and Questions in the Charter:

    ... We play as if sitting around a table in a campaign as close to old skool style as we can. If a Party enters a Dungeon, there is no guarantee they will get out again. That's the way the game is played. OUR difference is if you die, you get to come back again and try again.
    And this from THACO Commandments:

    #15 Unless otherwise approved by the guild, characters can only solo quests that have a "SOLO" difficulty.
    I am easy to confuse on a good day... this is over my head by a few yards.

    Can we... or can we not.. complete a quest if we are the one who died?

    Can we complete it solo, or will we need assistance from another real person, Guildie or otherwise?

    Does coming back to try again only apply if EVERYONE dies? If so, Why?

    If someone dies, does that mean eveyone must recall, to try again with a "lick your wounds" trip to the tavern, then run to re-entry, or try again on another day?

    I do know I am at fault for many of my deaths. I've made terrible errors in tactics and judgement. Also, Lag has haunted me unmercifully since the introduction of Druids and all the varities of pets. A busy fight screen leaves me on edge, wondering if I'm going to die If/When "Not Responding" shows up at top.

    I can play smarter. I cannot force Turbine to add sufficient servers to accommodate magnitude of programming for so many new features with so many moving parts.

    Sam

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    Good! Keep up the comments.
    Cogs, there ARE conflicts in statements over the past 6 months.
    They are the attempts at pounding out a "workable" solution by trial and error.

    The issue of dying is NOT resolved. I lean towards not re-trying IF the party COMPLETES the quest.
    This relates to the party completing the Quest/Chain short-handed or retreating due to the chance of further death or even just pulling the plug for no other good reason.

  17. #617
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    Default Looking for a few good adventurers

    With the departure of one of our number and another "nowhere to be found", THAC0 is looking for another member who might like to join us.

    If interested, contact me so that we can discuss a new potential character.

  18. #618
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    Default Potential solutionst to "death"...

    =

    Quote Originally Posted by kerikofgreyhawk
    About Sam's 2nd Point: I agree about the issue with Chains. I think that there are two options. a) the dead person's soul stone gets picked up and he stays in the quest and earns completion, b) the entire party gives up the quest when a person dies. Try it again at a later date. Hopefully, we be able to raise people in the nearish future.
    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    ... The issue of dying is NOT resolved. I lean towards not re-trying IF the party COMPLETES the quest.

    This relates to the party completing the Quest/Chain short-handed or retreating due to the chance of further death or even just pulling the plug for no other good reason.
    Once more we come to a definition of "terms".

    Question: When is death not really the finality of death as we know it in the Real World?

    Answer: In the worlds of both D&D and DDO.

    If you can be easily "resurrected" from "Death" by simply recalling to a bind point, or by having a suitably high level entity cast a spell or use a scroll to raise you from the condition, is it really something so final and event terminating as we are making it out to be?

    I see it as more a serious, but temporary incapacitation of a party member, or perhaps an entire party. Call it "Death", but it is what it is!

    Perhaps we should also be seeing it as cause to Retreat, Reevaluate our approach, Re-equip, and Return to try again.

    Adopting the "RRRR" protocol would eliminate all current problems inherent with...

    1. Do we, or don't we allow repeating a quest solo or with assistance?

    2. Do we really want to deny the dead opportunities for EXP, and Chain Completion, that are granted to the lucky or the wiser?

    3. Removes any suggestion that the "Death Penalty" is a punishment to be endured. Did you join the Quest to spend time as a ghost, observing while the living complete the task with joy and honor?

    4. Keep everyone in the same ballpark on EXP and Leveling.

    5. It follows the KISS system... and simplicity is needed when I am involved! *Sheepish Grin*

    A caveat - I will admit, death and the lurking notion that the potential exists which would prevent Cogs from finishing a job, is a very powerful argument to keep his head down and avoid critters and things that want him dead! The "Death Penalty" may be worth keeping for that reason alone... it may work to prevent a cavalier and overzealous prosecution of our goals.

    I am leaning in favor of "RRRR". I will gracefully bow to wisdom of the majority... or the Boss. ((I am in need of +7 Gloves of Disable with Resistances. Offers will be kept confidential. *wink*))

    What say you?

    =

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fricko View Post
    =

    A caveat - I will admit, death and the lurking notion that the potential exists which would prevent Cogs from finishing a job, is a very powerful argument to keep his head down and avoid critters and things that want him dead! The "Death Penalty" may be worth keeping for that reason alone... it may work to prevent a cavalier and overzealous prosecution of our goals.

    =
    My friend, you have stumbled upon the ONE concept that keeps me on that side of the fence.
    It is my main reason for this suggestion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intruder1 View Post
    The issue of dying is NOT resolved.
    Until maybe, now.....
    We seem to have a workable rule revision to Dying and it's consequences....

    Mulling over, I think we can boil it down to a single statement.

    "The party does NOT recall from a Quest unless all characters are dead, or the Quest is Completed."

    I KNOW it varies from something Cogs pointed out, but if you think about the resulting actions carefully, it kinda makes sense.

    If someones dies.....Quest is abandoned, but you must get out without recalling. (Roleplaying opportunity)
    If you can not get to the entrance......Guess what, you're stuck. Complete or Die? (Roleplaying?)
    I think, under the circumstances, no Quest should be re-attempted on the same night.
    There are always other Quests/Areas to go into in this case.

    Again, suggestions.
    Do not comment immediately, think about it.
    Last edited by intruder1; 10-26-2012 at 10:22 AM.

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