i missed the fun, but was catching up on the posts today sounds like it was a good time. thinking armor may or may not work for baiting maybe fleet of foot will make the difference?
i missed the fun, but was catching up on the posts today sounds like it was a good time. thinking armor may or may not work for baiting maybe fleet of foot will make the difference?
I (Grondley the wizard) have my starter arcane robe, a combustion-spell pen scepter(+2), a minor fire lore scepter and a vendor wand; either fireball or lightning bolt. In Tanglewood, that wand takes about 80% of the monsters hit points. I try to time my attack to kill a monster already engaged by the fighters so I don't need to also attack with burning hands. I was killed by one of those hard to see bugbears that got past me without me ever seeing him. I have been putting skill into spot in the hopes that I could avoid that but since it is cross class for me and my wisdom is so low, it really is a waste at the level we are at now.
It really was sad at the end of trying to rescue 5 prisoners, to be one short and thinking he was behind the door in the scorpion pit, not being able to open the door. We were at the end of our endurance and even if we had thought to look in the spider infested tunnel at the entrance, we would not have been able to survive them.
I have already addressed Cogs's ale belly by swapping in expeditious for our next encounters.
Turns out that Expeditious is self only.
I can't say for sure, but seems that even Expeditious Retreat is not as fast as Wolf Pack! (Cogs insisted I post that in defense of his cute lil round ale belly.)
Honestly, we did not know where the last prisoner was located, but with only two doors to choose from, it had to be one of them. He was in the Scorpion Pit, or the big room with bunches of Witchdoctors, Sorcerers, and Guards. Knowing how totally (Awsomely!) evil the Developers are, in carefully planning Doom and Dispair for our Characters, Cogs was betting on the big room.
On another note entirely: Underdark is incredible! Mackdamech was invited by very kind... and patient... souls to accompany them on the Journey to a very beautiful, pastorial land that is EXACTLY what D&D is supposed to look like!
It has cows! Fields of grain that move in waves with the wind, and naturally part when you walk through them. The very realistic water in the stream invites you to come back with a cane fishing pole, corncobb bobber, and a can of worms for bait. I walked over the stone bridge, whistling "You get a line, and I'll get a pole, honey, oh baby! Mine!"
I now have new incentive to get us to a level where this place becomes our home. We may never quest there, but we need to meet under the trees by the river, roast supper on sticks over a campfire, and talk about our adventures.
Go there as soon as you can. It is well worth the time, trouble and cash.
I'm back from "rest and relaxation"!
Still have that pesky thing called "Work" on Wednesday. If they daudle, I may be late to get in game.
Did some looking at Druids. They can't even throw stones!
But it does look like they corrected the companion issue.
Further, the Druids companion is 3rd Edition D&D, not 2nd.
And....it seems to be fighting equivilent of a Ranger, of the same level as the Druid.
Essentially, it's a Ranger Hirling, doing around 8-15 damage per attack, with critical hits in the 20's.
They ARE decent backup Fighters, with Healing Ability AND a couple decent direct damage spells.
The shape change ability is neat to watch, but seem to be so-so combat-wise.
Another plus is they seem to be good at drawing attention. They have a couple tricks dealing with Intimidation.
With the addition of a "Ranger" hirling, the Druid can be a fierce Melee character.
Our playstyle is based on 2nd Edition guidelines with very few exceptions.
We lost Azzlorn, partially because he, not being classic 2nd Edition, was a bit over-powered for our group.
I'd like to hear about oppinions on the Druid, as represented in DDO.
Let me Delete Azzlorn in a few days. That way no guild renown is lost. I'm not sure my Cleric will be ready by wednesday like Cogs i want to spend some time chatting with Elminster and fishing in the stream. Also its a bank holiday today in UK so "I'm off for a pint or 3 down the pub"
I think Druids are Awesome and its a Boon for people playing styles akin to us. I do think they are designed self sufficient just like a wf arti and fvs something that paying customers want. Actually i often fully solo with my druid even with the killer wolf gone. It does seem unfair not to allow the druid companion(now its got smaller teeth) when we can use bought wands. Also the companion is linked in many ways to the druid. Who do you think not's going to be 1st in the queue for cures sorry eajort and cogs(even if i let all of you die and kept the wolf alive you would laugh anyway). I'm going to read my Ad+d player handbook now. There are No enhancements which is what sets d+d and DDO apart. Oh and the D20 system which i still don't understand :-/. However Summon monster/followers is a big part of d+d(you can't charm a monster for 10min never mind hrs or days in our world, what about a ranger they don't get a pet in our world). We play d+d in our world and its extremely difficult, . My cleric radiant servant undying court isn't in the phb neither are the other prestige lines. To me its like when a player bought a new rulebook(the complete fighter etc series). DDO wouldn't exist without all the extra's. Level 6 is upon us, characters will take a step up in power. We've all been spectacular at times Yes, but non of us has outshined eachother.
P.S. its nice that you've all said goodbye to azzlorn :-( so blonde hair and nice bum is 1st character attributes i need next then ;-)
My oppinion is a Druid is acceptable for our purposes. He's the same as any Cleric, just from a different viewpoint.
The lack of Ranged Combat is somewhat made up for by other abilities. The companion is the part that sets him apart. As long as it does at least normal damage, it's no different than including another Fighter into the group.
(Note it means SEVEN characters in a full group!)
But then again, you could always consider a Favored Soul as TWO characters molded into one.
It's a pretty hard decision to make, deciding which classes fit and which ones might not. I have my own oppinions, but anyone with any common sense knows it's better to decide by counsel, rather than not.
I agree, the graphics and such in the expansion must be pretty cool, but with the rather limited time I have, I'll stay focused on the underlying game rather than it's trappings. If there were level appropriate Quests over there, I wouldn't hesitate.
Some people play the game for it's graphics and "stuff", I like the game it was designed to emulate.
Some notes found concerning the Druid......
(This is a recap of another thread, including only facts found interesting)
What I got out of this is a Druid is a "Cavalry" character, decent at a lot of things, master at none.
This can be a great character for Classic D&D.
I tried that and ended up with a very versatile character that is nearly pointless in a group with a dedicated caster, healer, and melee toons. Decent enough support, and you can fill in where needed, but most of the time you just toss a couple pathetic lightning bolts, a neut poison or three, maybe a buff here and there, and never actually completely kill any monsters in melee. Oh, you can get up there and hack away... decent enough hp and ac will allow it. But you'll be on your 40th swing against that kobold; I got him on the ropes now! And that's when the monk/wiz/cleric, etc will come along and insta-kill it because they can actually do more than 12 pts of damage per attack.
Bear form has decent damage, but it is oh, so slow. Wolves actually do more damage over time because they are quicker. But your kills are always going to be a fraction of the monks or wizard kills. Most times, even a well played healing cleric will tie you for kills.
But one thing I've noticed is that the druid seems well suited for soloing. With the buffs, aoe attack spells, companion, and summoned creature you've got a nice multiplication of force. Let the summoned creature get aggro, lay down the aoe spell of your choice, and then kite the mobs through the aoe, while your companion does sneak attacks and you heal/hack/cast other spells as needed. Add a rogue, and you could have an interesting little party that could set up some amazing ambushes and be stealthy enough to sneak into/past a lot of challenges.
Keep in mind that a well played wiz can do all these things alone and with a lot less drama.
Not attacking you here, but I just don't see the point in this........
Most of the Druid's spells are AoE and Evocation which means Reflex save for half or no damage (if the mobs have evasion).
So sure, you can throw down a Firewall and fight in it, but with DC's that low all you're doing is going "ooo, look at the pretty colours!" and waiting for mobs to roll a 1 while doing less melee damage than a class that focusses on it.
I am not sure what you are doing wrong with only getting 12 dmg. In wolf form I am seeing consistent 40+ dmg at level 12 and I am getting as many hits as my level 12 monk (or so it seems), I crit for over 100 and do that often. My fire wall while in human form with a combustion and fire lore scimitar is getting 100+ ticks on crits and averages around 55 dmg on normal ticks. Lighting is hitting for avg 120 pts of dmg and crits for almost 300.
None of that is uber, but it is far better than what you are attempting to make druids out to be.
My cure spells do OK. Hit me for about 60 with the healing amp I have at level, others are getting about 40 to 50 for cure serious.
Yes I am not doing the dmg of my sorc at that level, or my barb and fighter at that level. But, I can contribute to any group and I do not have a problem handing out FOM and casting Sleet storm for some CC.
i think the point, as said before, is PLAY A DRUID LIKE A DRUID <(Well said!), not waiting the dmg/heal power/endurance of other classes.. druid is a pure hybrid.. you cant play it like a caster (not in full power), you cant play it like a melee DD (not in full dmg power), you cant play it like a huge melee tank... but you can play it with all those roles in mind... if i compare my druid with my sorc i will say "bah, druid is pfff in spell dmg", if i compare my druid with my monk "bah, not same dmg or same endurance"... if i compare with my fvs "bah, cant solo heal any raid in elite"... but beside wf sorc, none of them can solo well like my druid.... druid is a soloist... simple, just like artificer is... so a balanced build is what works... dont focus in melee neither in cast, focus in both
1. When speaking of Druid abilities and play style, it seems we are slipping into DDO "think", and away from D&D "think".
Having never played AD&D, and with my head firmly in original D&D that dates from before there were modules or hardback books of rules, I have no problem with Druids or their Companions playing with us.
Staff wielding Druids, using slings (1d4+magics iirc) for ranged weapons, with their trusty Companion Wolf, are very familiar and comforting. We already do a considerable amount of pretending, why not "pretend" the Druid legal Dart (1d4+magics) are Slings, and load up with them like us archery ranged guys do? From THAC0 Fellowship's Charter/Roleplay perspective I can't see the "rub".
I have two Druids, one pure and Caster Based, the other with a Rogue2/Druid18 splash that is more a paw to paw battler. Both run exclusively solo, for when I might have to bail out of game in a hurry due to Real life raising it's voice at me.
2. SlowDM, I wish you could keep the Character (Personality), and just change his (Azzlorn's) job skills via "additional training" or something creative on your part. The gal has a cute butt, but she ain't the Azz!
See TOLD U, Druid's are ace :-).
With our restrictions that +3tome+6+2+1+whatever isn't allowed, so a low score is here to stay. Arghh my FvS was never overpowered he just didn't fit in with d+d :-). If anything without +goodies and no min maxing was a good point in the fellowship favour.
In my limited experience(non rogue) spot and search can find secret doors but its hit and miss, 18 wis+18int anyone? . If you 'know' where the door is wizz fizzle twang u find it. Hidden monsters by the time you've spotted it, its often seen you. Oh druid's have a good spot you just try to find the souce of the draft! Often in our wens quests we find hidden places i never knew exsited.
Here is Azzlorn as he departs
Now i hope you all feel guilty.
P.S. Azzlorn found 3 small eberron shards worth 50'000. Answers please BUT only in Video!!!!!!!! :-) Joking aside, they belong to the fellowship.
Will be in game later this afternoon. (Early evening for SlowDM)
If there are any issues that need resolving, see you then.
druids rock dont mistake that...but on the same note are they good for the group(fit in) well my thought is not
really. like most other class in d&d ad&d 2nd d&d without the expansions, they all have a major role to
play...and due it well. aside from that druids can do well in most settings cast/melee/heal...its just a thought
but being so well rounded and less focused takes away from the group a bit by not filling a roll (less dependent
on others and less to give to others).
Azzlorn the new is now level 5 and well on the way to reaching everyone else's xp .
On about 135,000 xp. Done the 1st Tangleroot quest. Will have to do enhancements again at lev 6 due to leveling requirements then i can raise dead and restore some sp. Tried the sp thing on Alicure it regenerates :-) it ain't much about 15(gets better) or so sp but every 2 mins. The positive energy burst looks cool aswel. I'll be careful with you Grondley it will take a bit of getting used to your Pale Master, i must confess the last time i was in a group with a pale master i sort of not knowingly let him die BUT then he said "i wasn't in undead form" , it will be fun. :-) It ain't been much fun levelling a healer. I'm looking forward to lev 6 with boosts in power and hopefully they will hold us in better stead for the next dare i say level or so.
Got helm of +70sp off me old mate. and a +36 heal power scepter. I used these last week. I know the helm was found on a guild night not sure about the scepter so i will replace that when we find something else similar.
Not sure what decision was about critical hits. I sent Kierik a +3 ac with light fort robe +2 potencial. So we will have to wait for Tukcc
I sent Grondley a robe aswell but probably of no use sorry Grondley. If i find something the same i'll post i to you.
This is where some roleplaying could come in if items are needed. Quest for them e.g. light fort with +2 fort save belt end reward for Shan d Kor chain.
Voice of the master +5% xp trinket. We could have it on all the time and so then never *&^%$@^ forget to put it on before end of quest like i do 95% of the time. Trouble is thats an end reward for the Delera chain
Last night's adventures consisted of a careful stroll around the beaches of Three Barrel Cove. Sun, Sand, what more could you ask for?
The team's focus was NON-magic ranged combat tactics. This worked well and generally (I think) everyone gained a whole new appreciation for concentrating fire.
Players got a feeling for the differences in eyesight amoung us. Cogs, as expected, had the best eyesight, followed close by the Elven eyesight of Tukcc, and then the Half-Elven eyesight of Azzlorn.
Coordination was great. Far sighted characters could insure things were going as expected long before the targets could close, and if a stronger force was drawn in, ample warning could be made to retreat!
The point was NOT to bring the fight to Melee range where our casters would become vulnerable.
We switched out "Point " men. Giving others a taste of what Cogs has been going thru all along. Also demonstrating that ANYONE can bait an ambush, as long as they can out run the target!
Very important point......Always have an escape route set up in case the ambush turns messy!
The other point in tonights fun was learning to conserve spell points. In this type of playstyle (without potions and shrines), using spells sparingly is really important.
Afterwards, it was encouraged that members experiment on the island by themselves and see if they could effect successful ranged encounters by themselves.
The past week had been busy after being given the chance to join a party of adventurers called The Fellowship. I needed to shape up a little, so with some help from a halfling sell sword i set about improving my skills. Stormreach even with its glitz held many dark secrets for an adventurer to earn his keep. It was late 1 night that I first met Tukcc, as i was about to find a chaps missing tool kit. After a few pleasantries he was happy at my progress, with weary eyes and several quests under my belt a warm bed i sought next.
I arrived at The One Eyed Bugbear Inn to see Eajort at the bar and Grondley and Cogs discussing beer bellies. It felt great being welcomed as if i'd known them for months. Satisfied that earlier 20 Orc's had been thinned out from the nearby complex, i was as ready as ever. The night started off a bit strange.
i arrived at the one eared bugbear inn and scanned the area seeing i was the first to arrive i strolled to the bar and asked for some of the stuff my friend cogs has. barkeep looked at me funny and said ok here's a "pint of ale" as we call it. i said thanks and begin to try it , thinking i wonder what its like...hmm that is good. I then noticed my mug was empty i think ill have another, as i noticed cogs enter the inn he tosses a wave at some acquaintances and heads for the barkeep. So i ask the barkeep how much ale you got tonight. he replies well now that hes here it wont last long....WHAT OHH NO. so i scramble out the door to the closest inn i could find, barkeep you got enough ale for tonight? he replies with a laugh yep well stocked now that that tinker found another tavern, hope he comes back good money. Well then ill have a pint of ale and a bowl of stew.
then the plan of tonight was unfolded, training for ranged tactics should be fun, just one question whats a dart? we started and found scorpions are tougher to range attack then most as they are good at hiding in the sand. working out a few kinks and then we started getting into a rhythm and wasnt long we had killed 50. this might work....then we found some salt mephits after some quick adjusting we managed them well.
"Tinker, Range-er, Soldier...., Spry!"
This night, Cogoiler sat in a steaming hot bath at the Salty Wench Tavern, ridding his skin of gritty sand and dried brine of sea water. Cold Ale near to hand, with his ever present "insurance" dagger beside it, the young Tinker considered the strange new adventures shared with his friends.
Tukcc had arrived, peppering them with questions about everyone's Ranged weapons. Did we have one? Were we competent with it? Did we have plenty of ammunition for the weapon? Naturally, Cogs was immediately unsettled. He did have the Heavy Crossbow, with a great number of Bolts, as his unfamiliarity with the weapon caused frequent misses, and multiple shots to take down targets. Of course, it did considerably less damage with each hit than the Great Crossbow, again requiring more bolts to insure an attacker was dead.
Their brave leader had immediately began herding them toward a ship in the Harbor, promising the reluctant Cogs a "Salty Wench" on arrival, not mentioning "she" was a tavern! They purchased passage for a trip to a place called "Three Barrel Cove". The plan for the day was to explore the Island for opportunities to garner some coin, while experimenting with tactics and techniques for dealing with enemies using ranged weapons. The idea was to limit their exposure to danger by drawing single entities away from groups, then hit them hard with multiple ranged weapons from great distances. The hope was that they could kill at a distance, and thus eliminate or greatly reduce damage to the members from hand to hand close combat. Even if not killed at a distance, an enemy could have his life force, and capabilities for combat, greatly reduced before getting close enough to strike back.
For the most part, it had been quite successful in execution. Scorpions had proved to be problematic, in that they burrowed underground, only to reappear quite close to the ambush location, eliminating their ability to get large numbers of arrows, bolts, and darts launched prior to its arrival. Cogs had used several different techniques to draw a single enemy away from where many had gathered, including patiently waiting for one to wander a little distance from his companions, then launching a bolt to start the chase back to their ambush location.
The Tinker and Mender had learned to Dodge on his run back, and to refrain from taking every shot offered once the ambush was sprung, in exchange for maneuvering for sneak attacks the target never saw coming. He also noticed that if he waited for others to begin striking blows before delivering his own, the Pirate they were targeting never caught on to the fact that there was an unseen attacker causing considerable harm!
Azzlorn demonstrated a new method of healing that closed wounds slowly over time, giving the recipient a rather pleasant tingle from head to toe. Standard heals were much faster and more powerful, but they drained him of Divine Spirit. The new method was a gift from his Gods, and most useful after a battle, when urgency was not an issue. It was quite Radiant in execution as well, a beautiful sight to see!
So, he nodded in satisfaction as he sipped at the dark ale, ranged tactics were a success, over all. One needed open areas with visibility over rather long distances to make it work. There was the rub, when it came to utilizing it in the closed quarters, narrow tunnels, and cramped passages of the indoor areas they normally worked. Careful planning would be needed to locate suitable lengthy passages for ambush locations. Where they could be found reasonably close to enemy congregations, the tactic of pulling enemies into ranged ambush would be quite useful.
Cogs did fear that there was a point where he would be required to run a bit too far back to his friends, with an infuriated monster on his heels. Time would demonstrate exactly what that distance would be. At that point, he would have to discover how far, and fast, he could run with a back bristling with arrows, spears, and decorated with claw slashes!
No wonder he drank so much.
Last edited by Fricko; 10-02-2012 at 08:02 AM.
Shaude, I had to laugh at your chasing around in a panic, looking for a tavern with ale! Good work using story line in your ale tale!
I forgot to ask if you were using darts for ranged, and how they worked out. I suggest that our Druid be allowed to ignore Magics and + numbers to darts, until such time as Turbine fixes the Ranged problem for them. As I have stated before, Druids need slings and stones.
What think you all?
For me, Grondley Drexelhand, there is not much that I can bring to ranged combat. The plan is to use it to thin the ranks of our foes while conserving our magic for the main opposition. To many nights spent mulling over dusty scrolls by the light of a candle has drained my sight to the point that many attacking monsters appear at my very toes. And every ranged weapon save the throwing dagger is beyond my skills. Even when touched by a master, my thin arms can't apply sufficient force to do much damage. My eternal wand of fire, which would deal a similar level of damage is lost to me. I'm sure I had it the night I had to flee Korthos.
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