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  1. #381
    Community Member Shaude's Avatar
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    Default

    Yea i see the point for efficient spell point use. it would seem to me like picking spell with no save or as kierik

    said one spell to help the other, may only be useful for many mobs at a time instead of one at a time. like the

    fog that gives -5 to reflex and fireball, or any reflex save spell u like. and remember that force spells

    have no save, cheap, and lower damage (i know) but 50% hit rate vs lower damage? melfs acid has no save..

    and if used to pull enemies could be dead by the time it gets there, or use magic missile or low sp spell

    to separate one or two from group then ambush, or to lessen the amount of mobs on melees... if two casters

    focus on same enemy one 4 sp spell from each should be enough to kill or weaken for zoo to kill? And

    remember soon we will be doing lvl 4 elites and they have a lot more hp then 3 elite, so might need to devise

    a faster tactic soon or sp will be scarce healing wise any way.

  2. #382
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    Default Bard

    Too many average scores. All i see is +2 to character saves at the cost of -2 penalty to any saves a monster has to make vs bard attacks.

  3. #383
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    Default

    so might need to devise a faster tactic soon or sp will be scarce healing wise any way.

    Quite agree azzlorn is not a nannybot LOL

  4. #384
    Community Member LeadHero5's Avatar
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    Default Optimal character

    We have a unique group going with difficult problems to solve and no other resources to call upon. A normal group can quickly find proven builds and gear lists for every level. I am always aware of how limited my spell damage is and how to maximize its usefulness. My summon monster is fairly strong(cr 4) and next level I'll get a skeletal knight(cr 6). Maybe the real question is, is a wizard in this setting as useful or needed as a straight fighter? The one thing we miss in this group is some muscle. Would a assassin only rogue be more useful. Two weapon fighting, high strength, con and nothing else. Skills would be hide, move silent, and bluff. Halfling for AC bonus and hero's companion. All the enhancements would be combat, no skill boost, traps or spot/search. Or drow, to get a tiny boost to build points and favored weapons. If there is any interest, I could post a build by Wednesday.


    Originally posted by Aeryyn "I don't play this game for xp/min, I play for fun/hour. "

  5. #385
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    Default

    Message from Kierik.....

    >----------------------------------

    Still think these feats are a waste in DDO.

    For evo, even a failed save is still half damage. And some good spells (like scorching ray) don't even have saves.

    For enchantment, while a failed save results in no effect (and in PnP I'd agree that SF and GSF make a lot of sense), its become clear to me that Turbine will only allow the weakest of opponents to fall victim to single-shot spells even with SF/GSF (i.e. you can charm a kobold, maybe a kobold warrior, but you'll never charm a shaman). Why spend so many SPs for this purpose?

    Instead of SF and GSF, you can take Toughness/Force of Personality. Those increase survivability tremendously, which is critical to a class that has the lowest HP dice and an AC rating = 10, which translates to opponents hitting 95% of the time.

    As much as I'd like to hide behind the warriors, the truth is that warriors cannot block monsters in DDO the way it works in PnP. Or rather, they can using intimidation to do so, but that is a death sentence for our play style. And granted we don't have any front-liners...if we did, and if they focused on keeping enemies away from the casters rather than DPS, then I'd agree to giving something other than toughness a shot. But it wouldn't be SF...

    >-------------------------------------------

    Interesting view......

  6. #386
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDM View Post
    14 CON after all you said :-)
    No to sorcerer. why would you need 11/12 str. we don't carry much so enfeeble wont be a problem. 11/12 dex maybe for saves and low level, why do you need AC when blur/ displacement/stoneskin ect.
    Its like the update/game mechanic problem with rogue's. They need that extra +, If rogues had a upto 42 point build they would need no magic, trouble is then DDO wouldn't make enough money.
    At the level we play measley kobolds(soon to be much larger enemies) should be hit %100. Shamans/arcanes not so much but certainly after we cast half a dozen spells at them.
    Sorcerers like fvs are not 2nd ed and for all their bells and whistles need help to fill in the gaps. Like rogues 'spread to thin' will cause problems. Its okay having lots of SP but not if your spells don't hit.
    Move silent spot balance jump ect a few points in them is a good idea for us but on elite that magic 20 comes into play.

    Last week we did 3 quests with Zero magic items, 1 death and that was just testing spot skill so dosen't count. It was great fun but 'spread a little thin' as far as skill boosts/sp/hp etc is concerned. Like Kierik said spells need to hit value for money style. We shouldn't die for want of a few sp ect but do and should for our own stupidity LOL

    Attracting some of a monster groups attecion and dealing with them 1st is our playstyle but that still leaves the Wanted baddie waiting for us at the end of that long tunnel :-)

    Cant wait for wedneday
    Hmmm....maybe I wasn't clear........
    The builds I posted were not intended to be actual, but REALLY average. Just to see what Feats/Enhancements would be available with focused stats in Primaries. (plus they actually did wonders for provoking conversation)

  7. #387
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    Default

    Here is Azzlorn at lev 6 . Hurrray I can raise dead. I'm not sure if i will take greater spell pen as feat. Spells bears endurance or aid will have go to have cure moderate. My poor rat won't be living long now. Better multi target attack spells come later. Any spell comments would be welcome.
    I will have a closer look at my enhancements, but toughness will always come 1st :-) followed by healing amp.
    He can swap out magic items(lose 100sp) to shield up intimidate, i've used it in the past with some sucess, pesky fire throwers are much less threat.
    I can sit at the back casting heals but i need command/other spell to work to stop arcanes being mobbed.

    Testing out the latest update fingers crossed will see some more balance.

    P.S. I hope our druids pet can be tested out this week, remember even if it is powerful, it needs healing/using wisely because if it dies he can revive once but i not sure that bit fits in with us?. As we level up more exotic creatures will get added to our zoo.

    chr should have started lower but only have +3 enhancement to obtain 7+8+9 level spells
    Wisdom really needs to have started higher without access to tomes
    int 9 gives 2 skill points/level
    con 14 is allways my min
    dex 12 is okay i may spend a feat on heavy armour
    str 11 could have been 8

    Now i've ripped poor azzlorn to bits. I don't care he's fun to play and has some scope to adapt. :-)

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Azzlorn 2 
    Level 6 Chaotic Good Half-Elf Male
    (6 Favored Soul) 
    Hit Points: 118
    Spell Points: 550 
    BAB: 4\4
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 6
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 6)
    Strength             11                    11
    Dexterity            12                    12
    Constitution         14                    14
    Intelligence          9                     9
    Wisdom               15                    17
    Charisma             16                    16
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 6)           (Level 6)
    Balance               1.5                2                    2
    Bluff                 3                  3                    3
    Concentration         3                  5                    5
    Diplomacy             3                  3                    3
    Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                3                  3                    3
    Heal                  2                  3                    3
    Hide                  1                  1                    1
    Intimidate            3                  3                    3
    Jump                  2                  4                    4
    Listen                2                  3                    3
    Move Silently         1                  1                    1
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
    Search               -1                 -1                   -1
    Spot                  2                  3                    3
    Swim                  0                  0                    0
    Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Jump (+2)
    Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Undying Court
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Spell (1): Bless
    Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
    
    
    Level 2 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Balance (+0.5)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Spell (1): Command
    
    
    Level 3 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
    Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Undying Court
    Spell (1): Summon Monster I
    
    
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Damage Boost I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Saves Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic II
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness II
    
    
    Level 5 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Jump (+1)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
    Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Spell Penetration I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
    
    
    Level 6 (Favored Soul)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
    Spell (3): Protection From Energy
    Enhancement: Undying Call (Favored Soul)

  8. #388
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default Cogoiler III, to level 6.

    Here is the current Cogs, with "repairs" to original concept that changes in our play-style, and game mechanics made clear via weekly funerals for him. A TWF who pew-pews with the new Heavy Crossbow. Now, to figure out Trapmaking, and see if it can be useful in our sort of game.

    He can still die, primarily due to that pesky die roll of "1" on Disable. I really feel health bar is lacking in numbers with the absence of Toughness Feat, but bow to assurances that it will not matter. ( Famous last words? *Grin* ) As fudge factor, I have Toughness planned at Level 9. We should know for sure if his low Hit points will be a problem by then.


    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Cogoiler III Tinker and Mender
    Level 6 True Neutral Human Male
    (6 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 68
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 4\4
    Fortitude: 4
    Reflex: 8
    Will: 4
    
                      Starting            Ending          
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats        
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 6)         
    Strength             10                 10            
    Dexterity            16                 17            
    Constitution         14                 14            
    Intelligence         14                 14            
    Wisdom               14                 14            
    Charisma             10                 10            
    
                      Starting            Ending          
                     Base Skills        Base Skills       
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 6)         
    Balance               7                 12            
    Bluff                 1                  1            
    Concentration         2                  2            
    Diplomacy             0                  0            
    Disable Device        6                 11            
    Haggle                1                  1            
    Heal                  2                  2            
    Hide                  7                 12            
    Intimidate            0                  0            
    Jump                  4                  9            
    Listen                6                 11            
    Move Silently         7                 12            
    Open Lock             7                 12            
    Perform               n/a               n/a           
    Repair                2                  2            
    Search                6                 11            
    Spot                  6                 11            
    Swim                  1                  1            
    Tumble                4                  9            
    Use Magic Device      4                  9            
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Spot
    Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
    Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Improved Search I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    
    
    Level 2 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Improved Spot I
    
    
    Level 3 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Disable Device
    Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    
    
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Ability Raise: DEX
    Feat: (Automatic) Trapmaking
    Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
    Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
    Enhancement: Improved Search II
    
    
    Level 5 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II
    Enhancement: Improved Spot II
    
    
    Level 6 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
    Enhancement: Rogue Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Last edited by Fricko; 07-31-2012 at 09:20 AM.

  9. #389
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    Default Hind-sight and second-guessing

    FIRSTLY, before I get going, Azzlorn......Spell Penetration if Different than Spell Focus.
    Spell Pen. aids you in breaching Magic Resistance. It will not be counted in determining saving throw of Monsters.
    I made that mistake with my Wizard some time ago. Had to reroll to get the desired Feat(s).

    Now....on with the show.......

    It seems to me that this group is doing VERY well so far. We continuously adventure in Elite difficulty Modules, WITHOUT using Shrines, and WITHOUT using very many (none in one instance) Magic Items, NO POTIONS!

    Yet we still question our abilities, why?

    If you were playing a typical PnP game, you would have rolled up your character the standard way, equiped him the standard way out of the player handbook, and stood back, nodding your approval.

    You would have then maybe gone to the bookstore and selected a pre-created module using the caption "Levels 4-6" as your guide. You wouldn't have questioned the caption because you trusted the writer of the Module.

    DDO isn't gonna be like that. Turbine labels the Quests by Level, and then says "Normal is the default difficulty" for normal play with 4 characters of appropriate level.
    We all know that ain't the way, at least for us.

    We have found (thru trial and error) that quests have to be judged by the number and types of encounters contained.
    They have to be judged by the Difficulty Rating of the Traps and their damage.
    They have to be judged by what types of spells might be used against us.

    It was said that the "No Magic" game night was borderline because by the end of the quest, Spell Points were on Empty and Hit Points were close to it.
    Now that was with a party of 6 doing 2 Quests <<3>> levels below us, instead of the usual 2.

    Take a look at the Magic Items you normally use. What do they most affect?
    Melee? Hit Points? Spell Casting? Skill use?

    What was lacking from the "No Magic" Party?

    I appreciate the faith you all have shown in allowing me to orchestrate the quest selections.
    Right now, I have to "judge" Level 3 and Level 2 Quests to determine which best matches our abilities.

    With Trap DC's down to a managable number, Level 3 Quests would be do'able, BUT only by a point or two.
    Would it be better to use Level 2 Quests that have a DC 3 points lower than that?


    It was stated that the "No Magic" game resulted in about 50-50 success with spells.
    Would it be safe to assume that we NEED to do 2nd Level Quests to insure that Spells are at least USABLE, and not easily "saved"?

    Right now, I'm of the oppinion that Quests 3 levels below our Level are the best match for our abilities, UNDER our guidlines.


    Comments?

    I will suggest that this week we attempt New Ringleader with normal Magic Items.
    We KNOW traps SHOULD NOT be a problem at all.
    We should prepare and make use of the most select Spells we have to gauge their effectiveness in this light.
    Then repeat the idea with Clan Gnashtooth.

    That should be enough of a comparison to judge spell effectivness.

  10. #390
    Community Member Shaude's Avatar
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    Default mho

    if we are running the quest with 4 in each group (assume 1 rouge) would hard setting be better such as lvl 4 hard for us at lvl 5...it is still same lvl module but without the boost of elite or if its to easy lvl 5 hard at lvl 5? just another thought.

    thinking also we may of stood and fought a time or to last week when falling back would of saved some hp/sp, but at that lvl it was a bit easy. it may be just me do to i can use wisdom for att/dam and spells.

    also Hade(druid wolf) has enhancement to heal a bit from eating enemies hes slain... will wait for ok to bring him in for a new trail assuming damage was fixed.

  11. #391
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    Default

    I know what i'm doing with spell pen. Thats why i have taken down shamans and red named, its just not working very well on elite with our rules. I have a limited roster of spells so focus i didn't consider for me yet maybe later. BUT I've had a closer look at my enhancements so angel of vengance prestige enhancement i can get it at level 6 is the way to go if you all can cope with the sounds it makes when monsters get near me. I was intending to get it at lev7/8(if allowed a fred feat change otherwise lev 9). empower/quicken ect is too costly with our rules, even alivef with her 2200+sp uses empower rarely.
    When in smaller groups i would prefer hard difficulty eg lev 4/5 quests on hard. From past quests this has been fun without being too easy.
    If its a choice between doing lev 2 quests on elite with lev 5 characters
    or
    level4/5 quests on hard with level 5 characters. i pick this as our spells/skills work better and with our rules its still not easy.

    But i'm not fussy., as long as its fun.

    My only comment about magic items is we haven't got any LOL. Its your fault Tukcc you should have added 'any comments EXCEPT azzlorn' :-)

    Losing 10hp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and 10% extra heal with an enhancement reset only. i can become at level 6 'drum roll'

    Azzlorn Angel of Vengance

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Azzlorn 
    Level 6 Chaotic Good Half-Elf Male
    (6 Favored Soul) 
    Hit Points: 108
    Spell Points: 550 
    BAB: 4\4
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 6
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 6)            (Level 6)
    Strength             11                 11                   11
    Dexterity            12                 12                   12
    Constitution         14                 14                   14
    Intelligence          9                  9                    9
    Wisdom               15                 16                   17
    Charisma             16                 16                   16
    
                      Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 6)           (Level 6)
    Balance               1.5                2                    2
    Bluff                 3                  3                    3
    Concentration         3                  4                    4
    Diplomacy             3                  3                    3
    Disable Device       n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                3                  3                    3
    Heal                  3                  4                    4
    Hide                  1                  1                    1
    Intimidate            3                  3                    3
    Jump                  1                  4                    4
    Listen                2                  3                    3
    Move Silently         1                  1                    1
    Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                 -1                   -1
    Search               -1                 -1                   -1
    Spot                  2                  3                    3
    Swim                  0                  0                    0
    Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a               n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Favored Soul)
    Feat: (Deity) Favored by the Undying Court
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Barbarian
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Automatic) Attack
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
    Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
    Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
    Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
    Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
    Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
    Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
    
    
    Level 2 (Favored Soul)
    Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
    Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
    Feat: (Automatic) Trip
    
    
    Level 3 (Favored Soul)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
    Feat: (Automatic) Child of the Undying Court
    
    
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Ability Raise: WIS
    
    
    Level 5 (Favored Soul)
    Feat: (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
    
    
    Level 6 (Favored Soul)
    Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Saves Boost I
    Enhancement: Undying Call (Favored Soul)
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Smiting II
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Life Magic I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Favored Soul Toughness I
    Last edited by SlowDM; 08-01-2012 at 06:14 AM.

  12. #392
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    Default This weeks adventure story

    Entering the waterworks with just 4 of us, I witnessed Cogs running with a bunch of Kobolds alongside. It was funny, for a moment i thought we had been entered into the waterworks running race competition. That was until the finish line when the Kobolds attacked us for coming 1st, great sportsmanship i must say.
    We soon found out this was a prison complex. Squads of guards with shaman warders were more intent on keeping characters out rather than in. It was certainly a secure place as often guards tried to sneak up to jab us toward the prison cells from the rear. Its rather unpleasant being jabbed up the rear by a kobold. The more exotic zoo pounced and were enjoying kobold for supper. Lee-vers pulled made a loud grind and clang as barred gates opened. With a couple of worse for wear prisoners set free, another prison landing lay above. As soon as we stepped into view arrows whizzed down on us. Clearing out the top landing rather enthusiastically' led us too a large iron gate with a squad of guards the other side. With prisoners stil behind locked cells gates the fellowship guessed correctly another lee-ver must be near. After dispatching the cruel guards more pisoners were set free. Arlos was found in the last cell but with his safety in mind "stay there untill we check the route out is clear". Our party was soon glad we did, finding secret rooms and treasure chests. So our pockets filled, Arlos was escorted back to his waiting relative.
    The 2nd quest i'll give Cogs a chance to write as he immensely enjoyed a laugh at someone else's mis fortune for a change.

  13. #393
    Community Member Fricko's Avatar
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    Default The Dirge Dance of Grief... honest... that was it... really!

    =

    Cogs sipped his tankard of ale at the end of the evening, and considered it well earned. The journey into the Waterworks, in search of missing relatives of one of the Harbor Master's Guards, had proved to be both informative and lucrative. Along with Tukcc, Azzlorn, Kierik, Eajort, and Grondley, Cogs took on the task. The City Guards inside warned of Kobold and vermin infestations. To the Tinker and Mender, it sounded like the sort of practice he had been told to seek out, as he learned to utilize new weapons, and weapon skill sets.

    His Training Mentor insisted he not use the new Heavy Crossbow, with it's Artificer enhancements, and Magical properties. Instead, and much to his disappointment, he had been handed an unenhanced, and rather mundane weapon, and told to master it first. In truth, it did handle much differently than the more familiar weightiness of the old Great Crossbow. It was faster to bring to the shoulder, faster to align sights on a target, and the much lighter weight made tracking moving targets a great deal easier to accomplish. Being unadorned with Magics, and unaided by enhancements, he was forced to rely on his own fast growing skills as a Marksman to hit his targets with the new weapon type, just as his Mentor had desired.

    He was also instructed to use a combination of unenhanced Rapier and Dagger, to practice Two Weapon Fighting skills. This was something that came a bit easier, although neither he nor his Mentor could determine why. In truth, he found none of the frustrating awkward fumbling in transition, that exchanging the weighty stability of the Great Crossbow, for it's faster handling counterpart had done.

    “You appear to be a natural at ambidextrous combat,” was stated with a perplexed smile and look of wonder to accompany it.

    His weapon practice in the Sewers was surprisingly limited, as the “Zoo” was quite efficient in pinning and destroying most of those who attacked the party. Cogs found that he had shot just thirty bolts during the entire journey. While it was difficult to be sure, he thought he had scored on a good three quarters of his long range shots. He got much more of a work-out with the rapier and dagger, and came away with growing confidence in his abilities with the new fighting style. Both weapons were quite handy in sneak attacks, and were used in that manner a number of times against those pesky Kobold Sorcerers. It seldom took more than three attacks from behind to put them to eternal rest. Once he acquired enhanced and magical empowered weapons, that would improve greatly.

    In the course of their investigation, he had managed to spot and disarm all but one of the traps, and even the one that gave him trouble was spotted, sort of. He lost most of one eyebrow to a flame trap when it was triggered, thus spotting it. A search then located the mechanism controlling it, and a moment's tense work with his tool kit left it also safely disarmed. He also picked a locked strongroom door, although they did find the key a bit later, hidden in a chest. He still felt pride in the accomplishment. New “Tinkering” techniques learned under the guidance of his Training Mentor were clearly paying off in practical applications.

    The only truly troubling part was the terrible disaster that left him in deep sorrow. Poor Tukcc was struck a mighty blow that left him incapacitated and near death. Cogs turned his back with quaking shoulders and performed the Dirge Dance of Grief as his eyes filled with tears. Apparently the actions were misinterpreted by some in the party, but that's his story, and he stuck to it.

    When Tukcc had recovered, everyone continued, rescuing other prisoners, and eventually locating Arlos in a cell. The Cousin was escorted out of the sewers, where everyone agreed to take a break to rest and repair, before returning to seek out the second prisoner. There appeared to be a maze of passages and unexplored areas to be checked out. If they were anything like these, there would be traps and secret areas to challenge the Tinker and Mender, with plenty of adversaries to hone his skills with new weapons.

    His smile widened, as Azzlorn and Grondley joined him at table, and he settled in with a fresh tankard. He was fast learning to enjoy these conversations with friends, in the tavern after an adventure. Friends. The word rolled off his tongue easily now. No longer an alien concept that rang strangely to his ears.

    “Welcome, my friends!”

    =
    Last edited by Fricko; 08-02-2012 at 01:24 PM.

  14. #394
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    Default Oops

    Slowly, we approached the group of Kobolds guarding the door. Cogs was just in front. He signaled the creatures presence.
    Bow noched, I began to draw. The first shot would be to the right ear of a particularly ugly "insect", as I referred to them.

    I could not wait longer. The shot glanced off it's helmet. Damn!

    They saw us now! Good! I was impatient! Wait!.......Wolves! Many Wolves! Did not see them at first!
    A smile crept to my lips. Slinging my bow, I slid my 2 Scimitars from their sheaths.
    3 Kobolds and 4 Wolves! Bring it! The odds will bring us favor!
    I braced myself for the impact and met their ferocity pound for pound.

    As they fell upon us my blades drank deep of Kobold blood! There would be carrion for the vermin today.
    I underestimated the beasts that accompanied the "things". As I swung, one grabbed my arm in a death-grip and it's teeth sank deep!
    Tring to shake the beast from my arm, another anchored itself to my leg. Pain shot up and numbed my foot.
    My other sword arm flashed, cleaving both front legs from a third Wolf before it had a chance to join it's two brethren in their intended meal of Elf Flesh.

    The Wolves had been trained well. One arm pinned and movement anchored, the Kobolds attacked and landed 2....no, 3 greavous wounds to my torso. Their blades slicing through my Medium armor.

    Darkness overtook my sight. It was a valiant struggle. Worthy to the ancestors!

    As I lay there on the floor in a pool of my own blood, I vaugly saw Cogs. Jumping and screaming in anguish!
    Humans! They don't have the self control to curb their grief at a fallen comrade.

    "But why was he smiling????"

  15. #395
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    Default When work and family conspire to deny my Wed. night...

    Sorry fellas! Looks like I missed a good time. I'll miss next Wed as well, travelling for work (I need to dump my Mac and buy a new PC laptop so I can play on the road!)

    Here's Cappy's excuse for missing the fun:

    In the blackness, Capitan was suffocating. Where in Hells was he? Disoriented and panicked, he thrashed about, meeting doughy resistance that pressed over his face and chest. He had to escape! His hand found empty space to his left, so he wriggled and pushed with all his might into the free air. His slid out from under the fleshy mass and yelped as he felt himself falling. He landed with a thump onto a wooden floor. His body ached and his head felt gummed and foggy.

    Dim sunlight streamed through gaps in the shuttered window. The room above the back alley pub assailed his nose with scents of the night previous. Stale beer and whiskey. Whiskey and vomit. Sweat. Perfume? Capitan felt like a supply cart had run him down in a muddy road.

    Movement and a groan brought Capitan to his feet and reaching for a rapier that was not at his side. He realized he was stark naked. Now a large mound rose up before him from his bed. A low voice growled as a wide face with tusks and red eyes emerged from under the blanket.

    "Hey little man, you want a free roll-around before I go? You are an animal-- like a wild ferret you are!" A voluptuous half-orc woman beckoned to him from his bed, humongous bosoms quivering like colliding guild ships.

    Capitan narrowed his eyes at the interloper in his bed. "Woman, I didn't pay you for sex. I paid you to leave afterwards and not smother me in me sleep with your ****."

    The half-orc pulled the sheet off her body and smiled. "you know you loved it. Now get back into bed, and bring that bottle over here, it's got a couple swallows of whiskey left."

    Capitan sighed. The Fellowship was going to be ****ed, but he was in no shape for what they had in store for him today.

    He shrugged and muttered, "hair of the dog and all," as he grabbed the bottle and sauntered back into the huge pile of woman flesh eagerly awaiting him.

  16. #396
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    Default A little on numbers

    Through some testing, these are the stats for some of our more common opponents lately.....

    Kobold (Elite)
    CR:3
    AC: ~12
    Hit Points: ~40-50
    Crit Confirm: ~18

    Kobold Warrior (Elite)
    CR: 5
    Hit Points: ~70-80
    AC: 15
    Crit Confirm: ~22

    Kobold Shaman (Elite)
    CR: 5
    Hit Points: ~70-80
    AC: 12
    Spell DC: 15 (Reflex Save YOU must make)
    Lightning Bolt Damage: ~18-21
    Crit Confirm: ~20

    Kobold Thrower (Elite)
    CR: 5
    Hit Points: ~70
    AC: ~10-11
    Crit Confirm: ~20

    Lesser Grey Ooze (Elite)
    CR:6
    AC: 9 (maybe less)
    Hit Points: ~70
    Very hard (impossible?) to confirm a Critical Hit. Confirm is at least 35.

    Grey Ooze (Elite)
    CR: 9
    AC: 9
    Hit Points: 190
    Crit Confirm: >35?


    Considering the latest patch lowered the trap DC's from 18 to 15, a Lightning Bolt of 20 damage with a saving throw of 15 is more in line with our playstyle.
    Last edited by intruder1; 08-05-2012 at 11:40 AM.

  17. #397
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    Default Character Baseline

    In order to judge whether it is possible to play DDO without all the bells and whistles, I would think you'd have to know what basis you would compare to.

    Using the standard 28 point build, choosing class focused skills, choosing irrelevent feats, no enhancements and
    not retaining any magic items, the following is an average baseline for a 7th level HUMAN character using veteran creation.

    Stats: All 12 except for a 16 in Prime.
    Hit points: Melee:83-97 Spellcaster: 55-83 Rogue: 69
    Spell Points: Normal: 383 Sub-Class: 543
    Saving Throws: Melee favor Fortitude, Spellcaster favor Will and Rogue favors Reflex
    BAB: Fighters are best, Spellcasters have half a Fighters bonus and Clerics and (surprisingly) Rogues have 3/4 of a Fighters Bonus.

    What this means is while Stats, Feats and Enhancements can significantly alter any particular character, the basic party (FTR, CLR, WIZ, THF) is more or less a match for an equal number of monsters on Elite Difficulty.

    (This ought to bring out some comments)

  18. #398
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    Default

    I'm interrested in this, but I'd like to talk to you.

    Are you still doing this on Thelanis, and who should I look for?
    Last edited by Kimeni; 08-06-2012 at 02:52 PM.

  19. #399
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    Default I'm certainly not average

    Who'd pay for average :-)

    The appeal of this game is all the skills enhancements variety and choice. The choice is immense from that warforged lord of blades to that newbie elf fighter with 6 con. Both can play the game and have fun. With our roleplaying its sometimes funnier to die or fail.
    Its a lot about personal preference or player skill, me for instance , i have a problem with the mario aspects so now put a few points in jump.
    I'm sure you can play DDO with whatever scores you like, how often you will die or fail quests is another matter. All very well untill that monster your trying to kill is immune to that sword/spell, or even gains hp from attacks aimed at it, Or can heal itself as fast as its losing hp, or its special attack causes massive damage, or its hitting you for more damage than you hitting it, or you're spending more time prone than standing. For instance a Beholder, who simply dispels all magic in front of it while casting Death Ray and other nasty spells repeatedly and often. Ha and you think you're safe behind it think again :-)

    There's a big diffference in a 16/15/14/12/8/8/8 than a 16/12/12/12/12/12. i didn't check those scores add up just as an example.
    A cleric needs wisdom but a high chr helps turning. so a 12 int is just pointless when a 14/15 chr 9/10 int is needed.
    A fighter with a +2 will save vs how many hp lost to con?,
    Many character's enhancement/feat choice needs certain requisites for instance weapon finnesse needs 17 dex.
    This may not be a prime req of class. Also all classes need a 2nd or 3rd above average score.
    That 16str/12others fighter may be able to do elite but is not something anyone would want to play.
    With our ruleset those scores would make many characters, i would consider unplayable. Consider playing in a group like our hotch potch of characters. Half the fun is the little quirks our characters have. It would not be fun however using up all my characters resources on that fighter from above.
    The amount of feats/skills classes get differ so for instance a 14/16 dex may be needed if heavy armour feat is not going to be obtained.
    Just the same as traps, spells were not performing well. Last week our arcanes came back with a vengance. This due to spell selection and enhancements.

    With roleplaying its different, to someone a 18 str 18 int fighter will be fun to play but maybe, not so much on elite.

  20. #400
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowDM View Post
    Who'd pay for average :-)

    The appeal of this game is all the skills enhancements variety and choice. The choice is immense from that warforged lord of blades to that newbie elf fighter with 6 con. Both can play the game and have fun. With our roleplaying its sometimes funnier to die or fail.
    Its a lot about personal preference or player skill, me for instance , i have a problem with the mario aspects so now put a few points in jump.
    I'm sure you can play DDO with whatever scores you like, how often you will die or fail quests is another matter. All very well untill that monster your trying to kill is immune to that sword/spell, or even gains hp from attacks aimed at it, Or can heal itself as fast as its losing hp, or its special attack causes massive damage, or its hitting you for more damage than you hitting it, or you're spending more time prone than standing. For instance a Beholder, who simply dispels all magic in front of it while casting Death Ray and other nasty spells repeatedly and often. Ha and you think you're safe behind it think again :-)

    There's a big diffference in a 16/15/14/12/8/8/8 than a 16/12/12/12/12/12. i didn't check those scores add up just as an example.
    A cleric needs wisdom but a high chr helps turning. so a 12 int is just pointless when a 14/15 chr 9/10 int is needed.
    A fighter with a +2 will save vs how many hp lost to con?,
    Many character's enhancement/feat choice needs certain requisites for instance weapon finnesse needs 17 dex.
    This may not be a prime req of class. Also all classes need a 2nd or 3rd above average score.
    That 16str/12others fighter may be able to do elite but is not something anyone would want to play.
    With our ruleset those scores would make many characters, i would consider unplayable. Consider playing in a group like our hotch potch of characters. Half the fun is the little quirks our characters have. It would not be fun however using up all my characters resources on that fighter from above.
    The amount of feats/skills classes get differ so for instance a 14/16 dex may be needed if heavy armour feat is not going to be obtained.
    Just the same as traps, spells were not performing well. Last week our arcanes came back with a vengance. This due to spell selection and enhancements.

    With roleplaying its different, to someone a 18 str 18 int fighter will be fun to play but maybe, not so much on elite.
    Absolutely agreed. The characters mentioned were merely something to reflect pure, unadorned blandness.
    Like you might have created in 2nd Edition.
    No one would ever seriously use such characters in DDO.

    If we EVER come up against a Beholder, it will be a surprise. Do you think 2nd Edition characters will ever see end game quests in a game like DDO? Doubt it.
    The troubles end gamers are having mean nothing to us. By the time we get to a point where they might, Turbine will have corrected them.

    Getting to "End game" was never an expectation. The fun you're having is in the journey to however far you can progress. Just how far CAN you progress?

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