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  1. #1
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    Default LF Solo Artificer Advice

    I am looking at rolling a solo-only self-found Artificer with crafting capabilities. I am unable to decide between Helf for the barb dilli or human for the extra feat/skill points.

    What are the benefits of each, and which (IYHO) would be the better character and why?
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  2. #2
    Community Member Maxallu's Avatar
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    Quickened reconstruct + Blade Barrier and trap skills, Tada!

  3. #3
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Human has the only crafting bonus as a race. With the Dragonmark of Making line, you can have potentially +10 to crafting. As a pure purpose of crafter, there is no better choice. Drop your human feat into haggle, bump up charisma, level up your crafting as high as you can before leveling the character... all keys for a easier crafting haggle-bot.

    Now building for solo-play for actual play rather than for crafting, WF is the obvious choice. Artificers have all the repair spells, they get repair enh lines, and now have the solo friendly Epic Ring of Master Artifice... GG. I solo elite end-game quests on my artificer. Sadly lack of DCs, CC and insta-kills rule out soloing epics easily.

    Helf is always nice with their dilies, however I'd shy away from barb. Unfortunately Arti is already AP starved as it is (you can easily spend every point without dropping a single AP into racial), so you can't fit in the enhancements without sacrificing other things. However I would seriously lean towards Rogue. Rogue dili gives up to 3d6 sneak damage (and if you make your dog an intimi dog, this is awesome), trap saves, and an extra point to toss into dex for accuracy. If AP allowed, I'd take this over WF in a second.

    Drow also happen to plug perfectly into Arti needs. Dex for bow accuracy, Int for max DCs, SP and bow damage, Cha for UMD. Who cares they have crappy racials as you won't be spending AP on them except for dex and toughness. You just have to worry about eating the CON penalty.

  4. #4
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    The human artificer with marks of making can already solo about as much as you can solo, it seems. If you do the 16 dex/17 int kind of route it is pretty easy. You'll have the UMD for heal scrolls so don't need construct essence. I haven't tried splashing 2 monk on a human yet, but that looks pretty good. You'll lose 1 crafting bonus.

    I personally haven't found the capstone particularly amazing. Evasion is very nice.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MartinusWyllt View Post
    >snip<

    ...I personally haven't found the capstone particularly amazing. Evasion is very nice.
    See now I found the capstone to be awesome. Full blur/haste/rage/divine power/divine might/jump/ex retreat. If it's on a wand or clicky my Arty casts it alone with emp/max Blade Barrier. Phantasmal Killer/Hold/ anything not damaged based wands with my DC instead of the wands.

    If for no other reason the 20 min 200point Stoneskins are increadible.

  6. #6
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoolZ View Post
    ...Phantasmal Killer/Hold/ anything not damaged based wands with my DC instead of the wands..
    These work well for you? I've played with some wands for this and just wasn't impressed. Granted I haven't tested these extensively.

    As for clickies I've been happy with the CL boosts on the way to 20. So far it look like, to me, that evasion was a nice trade-off.

    Edit: and suggesting that based on the request for solo/survivability. Evasion for those quests where you have to survive the trap to get to the box is very useful.
    Last edited by MartinusWyllt; 02-16-2012 at 03:22 PM.

  7. #7
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoolZ View Post
    See now I found the capstone to be awesome. Full blur/haste/rage/divine power/divine might/jump/ex retreat. If it's on a wand or clicky my Arty casts it alone with emp/max Blade Barrier. Phantasmal Killer/Hold/ anything not damaged based wands with my DC instead of the wands.

    If for no other reason the 20 min 200point Stoneskins are increadible.
    Meh. 12 minute 120 point stoneskin is enough.
    Blur? A scroll lasts 8 minutes
    Haste? Armor of Speed and striders or an Exp Retreat scroll.
    Rage? If I'm doing something where I *really* need those few extra HP, then we have a caster in party. I realize we're talking solo here, but the only times that those few HP truly matter is in raids.
    Jump? A scroll gives +20 instead of the normal +10 and lasts for 6 minutes.
    Divine power/divine might? Even with the capstone you're still refreshing them constantly.
    Web wands? You have better CC from your blue bar.
    So we're left with PK wands. That's it. Evasion is better than a PK wand.

    On Lama when the capstone applied to scrolls, it was WELL worth it. Without scrolls I find it lacking.

    edit:
    The real question about whether to splash or not on a solo build isn't whether or not you want to lose the capstone. The real question about whether you should splash or not on a solo build is whether you want to put off Blade Barrier until 17th level. With x-bow damage not scaling much after you get Insightful Damage, you're left with a gaping hole in your DPS capabilities when they're needed. Levels 15-17 is when you're in GH, Orchard, and the Vale; and mobs start to get tougher and hit harder. BB is a huge boon in there to a soloist, and the splash doesn't have it in the early stages.
    Last edited by Calebro; 02-16-2012 at 05:24 PM.
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  8. #8
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    I wouldn't splash; evasion meh.

    Capstone, actually useable Iron Defender (truly!), ability to take Tactical Det, BB, Deadly Weapons and Reconstruct simultaneously, and better rune arm damage win.

    In answer to the OP, on Human v H-Elf (barb)

    H-Elf barb is pretty average; AP are so freakishly tight on an artificer that while you're obviously obliged to get the toughness enhancements if you go this route, you'll feel the slight AP loss. The extra 20hp are also not going to be the difference between life or death very often at all.

    If you're soloing, incoming damage from each hit is significantly lower, and while there are more individual hits since no one else is soaking them up, you rapidly get a feel for how much damage per second you'll be taking in each quest. That predictability means if you die, it's more likely to be due to a trap taking you to 'mega-dead' not just -13. I realise that's getting a bit philosophical, but for soloing (and only soloing), provided your max HP is decent, a little bit more or less is very seldom the difference between life and death.

    I'd go human for the feat and absence of hideousness. I'd also not take the crafting dragonmarks unless you're TRing from a life with already very high crafting skills.

    EDIT: H-Elf with Rogue dilettante is a real option though. Even solo, sneak attacks happen surprisingly often. I'd probably say this is my actual first preference over human if you're not doing the (IMHO) ridiculous dragonmark crafting thing.
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  9. #9
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    I wouldn't splash; evasion meh..

    .....

    H-Elf with Rogue dilettante is a real option though. Even solo, sneak attacks happen surprisingly often. I'd probably say this is my actual first preference over human if you're not doing the (IMHO) ridiculous dragonmark crafting thing.
    I like my 20 human arti with the crafting marks. The only times soloing got a bit annoying was in quests where I had to cross the trap to disarm it....like in Chain of Flames.

    The OPs priorities included soloing and crafting, so the dragonmarks look sort of required.

    My WF with evasion is only at 10/2. Evasion is working quite well so far. I'll feel the pinch that Calebro pointed out in about 3 levels, though.

    You're probably going to want your crafter to have the favor for the favor-related crafting ingredients; especially if you don't already have 400 silver flame favor on another toon. Trying to solo litany on elite proved not so workable for me..due to the traps you have to fall through. (Though this might be mitigated by more experience.)

    Deadly weapons is about to get crappy here in a few days...and we have no idea how long it will be crappy for.

  10. #10
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    human is a nice choice, especially with the changes coming round the corner. But helf gives the rogue dili which is a nice bit of dmg when you back attacking. Not to mention the extra trap stuff. The main thing that human/helf has is versitality. The ability to use that 20% dmg boost WITH fausade. You can smoke a room quick with that time frame if they're situated.

    WF is nice mainly cause of the outright ability to heal yourself. But IDK, even with the gs and the large slot, and trinkets, I find an arti does go through a bit of sp. Id be nice for heals in a pinch but I don't think id use my blue bar for it exclusively.
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  11. #11
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodspeed View Post
    WF is nice mainly cause of the outright ability to heal yourself. But IDK, even with the gs and the large slot, and trinkets, I find an arti does go through a bit of sp. Id be nice for heals in a pinch but I don't think id use my blue bar for it exclusively.
    There's no reason to. WF Arty with Recon only use their blue bar to heal in an emergency. Scrolls are actually just as good, and in some cases better, than blue bar healing.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    Meh. 12 minute 120 point stoneskin is enough.
    Blur? A scroll lasts 8 minutes
    Haste? Armor of Speed and striders or an Exp Retreat scroll.
    Rage? If I'm doing something where I *really* need those few extra HP, then we have a caster in party. I realize we're talking solo here, but the only times that those few HP truly matter is in raids.
    Jump? A scroll gives +20 instead of the normal +10 and lasts for 6 minutes.
    Divine power/divine might? Even with the capstone you're still refreshing them constantly.
    Web wands? You have better CC from your blue bar.
    So we're left with PK wands. That's it. Evasion is better than a PK wand.

    On Lama when the capstone applied to scrolls, it was WELL worth it. Without scrolls I find it lacking.
    Just to note. A lot of traps can be avoided all together, so if 12min/120 Stoneskins are enough, using the 1 infusion for Armor of Speed instead of something else (Thundering Armor) and Haste on your dog/self is as good, and the pain of constantly refreshing buffs is note worthy than I find evasion lacking in the comparison.

    That's before looking at Planar Gird, the Fire Shield clickies from necro iv, and the Ring of Spell Storing which all benefit from the increased caster level.

    If you splash for evasion you're giving up like a 4th, 5th, and 2 6th lvl spells to prepare. An arty bonus feat. The capstone. Delaying Blade Barrier. In return for evasion and 1d6+3 SA or evasion and a pair of monk feats.

    I'm a fan of evasion, and can understand why it's not a simply easy choice. But I think with the arty Radiant Forcefield + buffs the arty is as well off as if they had evasion on a class with a poor reflex save.
    Last edited by BoolZ; 02-17-2012 at 11:10 PM.

  13. #13
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoolZ View Post
    Just to note. A lot of traps can be avoided all together, so if 12min/120 Stoneskins are enough, using the 1 infusion for Armor of Speed armor of speed lasts longer than haste does, champ, it's not one minute instead of something else (Thundering Armor) and Haste on your dog/self is as good, and the pain of constantly refreshing buffs is note worthy than I find evasion lacking in the comparison. the pain of constantly refreshing buffs? DP lasts 2 *entire* minutes when you have the capstone, while it lasts a splash 1 minute. We're both rebuffing anyway

    That's before looking at Planar Gird 16 minutes for me , the Fire Shield clickies from necro iv scrolls work fine , and the Ring of Spell Storing this has an impact, but you don't really need it anyway which all benefit from the increased caster level. See, I have extra caster levels. RoSS helps your case, but the extra caster levels do not.

    If you splash for evasion you're giving up like a 4th, 5th, and 2 6th lvl spells to prepare meh. An arty bonus feat I have plenty. The capstone meh. Delaying Blade Barrier this one hurts a little, but I already mentioned that in the quote above, which you edited out of that post. And you havew better DPS than a divine caster does without it, so it hurts less than it could in comparison. You have other tools.. In return for evasion and 1d6+3 SA or evasion and a pair of monk feats. Yep, for delaying BB. I don't consider any of the rest of it worth mentioning in comparison

    I'm a fan of evasion, and can understand why it's not a simply easy choice. But I think with the arty Radiant Forcefield + buffs the arty is as well off as if they had evasion on a class with a poor reflex save.
    in red

    And that's your choice. You are welcome to think that. I disagree. Everyone makes the capstone out to be this ridiculously awesome thing, and it isn't. It's extra caster levels, on top of the ones I already have, but who cares because I already have extra.
    Oh, and PK wands. Meh.
    Last edited by Calebro; 02-18-2012 at 02:29 AM.
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  14. #14
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoolZ View Post
    A lot of traps can be avoided all together.
    Not in every quest. Unless there's something about Chain of Flames I don't know. Or, say, VoN 5 or DToV...it isn't like having to go through the trap to disarm it is rare.

    It also isn't like that's the only time evasion is useful. My arti with evasion avoids a lot of spell damage and other AoE effects.

    Anyway you don't think it is worth it and others do, that's cool.

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