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  1. #1
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Default longsword, shortswords or handwraps?

    Can't seem to decide which is the better choice for changing it up on a ranger/monk/fighter. Whichever weapon it would be (besides wraps) id have an array of GS awaiting it. Was even thinking about using an epic midnight at 20.

    which do ya think?

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
    (2 Fighter \ 12 Monk \ 6 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 331
    Spell Points: 235 
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    23
    Dexterity            16                    19
    Constitution         15                    18
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom               15                    18
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     6
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         2                     5
    Diplomacy            -1                     0
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -1                     0
    Heal                  2                     4
    Hide                  3                     6
    Intimidate           -1                     0
    Jump                  2                     8
    Listen                2                     4
    Move Silently         3                     6
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search               -1                     0
    Spot                  2                     4
    Swim                  2                     6
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Stunning Fist
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Master of Thunder
    Enhancement: Adept of Rock
    Enhancement: Master of Stone
    Enhancement: Adept of Rain
    Enhancement: Master of the Sea
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Mr B 
    Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
    (2 Fighter \ 12 Monk \ 6 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 331
    Spell Points: 235 
    BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    23
    Dexterity            16                    19
    Constitution         15                    18
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom               15                    18
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     6
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         2                     5
    Diplomacy            -1                     0
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -1                     0
    Heal                  2                     4
    Hide                  3                     6
    Intimidate           -1                     0
    Jump                  2                     8
    Listen                2                     4
    Move Silently         3                     6
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search               -1                     0
    Spot                  2                     4
    Swim                  2                     6
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Adept of Rock
    Enhancement: Adept of Flame
    Enhancement: Adept of Rain
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 17 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 18 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 19 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 20 (Monk)
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.12.01
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Mr A 
    Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
    (2 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 12 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 331
    Spell Points: 390 
    BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            12                    14
    Constitution         16                    19
    Intelligence          8                    10
    Wisdom               16                    20
    Charisma              8                    10
    
    Tomes Used
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     6
    Bluff                -1                     0
    Concentration         7                     9
    Diplomacy            -1                     0
    Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
    Haggle               -1                     0
    Heal                  3                     5
    Hide                  5                     8
    Intimidate           -1                     0
    Jump                  3                     9
    Listen                3                     5
    Move Silently         1                     4
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform              n/a                    n/a
    Repair               -1                     0
    Search               -1                     0
    Spot                  7                     9
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      1                     2
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Cleric
    Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 3 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 4 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Zen Archery
    
    
    Level 8 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 9 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 11 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 12 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
    Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Static Charge
    Enhancement: Ten Thousand Stars
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
    Enhancement: Adept of Wind
    Enhancement: Adept of Rock
    Enhancement: Adept of Flame
    Enhancement: Adept of Rain
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
    Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump I
    Enhancement: Improved Jump II
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
    Enhancement: Improved Tumble II
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 15 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 16 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 17 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 18 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 19 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 20 (Ranger)
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Improved Cleric Dilettante III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    with the 12 ranger I thought about it and figured if I gave up ips I could pretty much ditch most of dex needing a base of 14 for air stance to get 10k stars using wis as my to hit for ranged and str for hit and dmg of weapons/bow str.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  2. #2
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    with 6 levels of monk minimum in those builds, i'd suggest getting a decent set of wraps and icy bursting them.

    greensteel is nice, but nothing beats punching a mob in the face.

  3. #3
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Idk seeing lightning streak down and *****slap a monster is pretty nice. (Well when it happens)
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  4. #4
    Community Member freekay's Avatar
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    Given your level distribution, I'd recommend wraps.

    Why:
    No off-hand penalties for 2WF
    Can craft bursts on TOD rings for more dps/damage bypass
    Same/greater damage die than longswords/shortswords
    Earth/Air Silver alchemical wraps are super-sex

    Soaked/Soaking/Zecks/Zeckshealer - Cannith
    Soaked's build

  5. #5
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    With 12 monk levels, handwraps will be much, much stronger than long swords or short swords. You seem to be making a ranged-focus build, which makes the case even stronger: you don't have to spend as many feats with handwraps.

  6. #6
    Community Member Luis_Velderve's Avatar
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    If you plan to be a ninja you will get SS as ki weapon. You can get different effects, having more than one ki weapons is nice. TOD and stunning fist are hand-wraps only attacks.

    If you are going to TR your toon think about a 11 Ranger/9 monk (Stunning Fist, TOD and 10k stars is possible) and you will recieve +2 ranged damage for that PL.

    There is a 12monk/6 ranger/2 pally around that you could look for more options to consider.

    Good luck!
    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    I assume you're joking.

    (But just in case you're not, posts like this don't help, don't pretend to speak for others.)

  7. #7
    Community Member Therrias's Avatar
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    Midnight greetings is not even worth considering with dumped int.

    I'd go handwraps with SSs as backup (assuming you're ninja) for effects you can't get on wraps.

  8. #8
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    Of course, always a ninja. Can't beat that sweet shadow fade. Course about 6 seconds of moment of clarity many shot assuming lag didn't screw you would be nice to.

    IDK I just thought id be cool whipn some GS longswords around in monk stance. All 2 weapon fighting badass like. I wish short swords were slashing. IDK something about pierce just never really gave me the this weapon has potential feel.

    I don't think ive ever seen a build using the 2 pally levels. What do they bring to the table? The 11 9 split could be interesting. But whatever it is it'll need enough hit to not just swing at air in epics. Nothing more demoralizing then a string of your to hit sucks miss's flying above the monsters head.
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  9. #9
    Community Member Luis_Velderve's Avatar
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    With two paladin lvls you trade Fighter benefits for several pertinent (IMHO) paladin benefits:

    Feats


    Aura of Good

    Smite Evil

    Divine Grace (Cha bonus to saves)

    Lay Hands



    Enhancements



    Follower of the Silver Flame (+1 bonus to hit with Bows)

    Paladin Focus good

    Paladin Extra Smite Evil I


    For a Ranger 11/ Monk 9 using Weapon Finesse you can get your Dex investment to help with your melee and it is compatible with PA and TWF line, MANYSHOT, PS and IPS will not require you a X Dex score if Ranger (your Reflex Save will suffer). Human Versatility for burst to hit with any attack. I know that my toon is good enough to hit Wizard King Epic (no other epics with my Ranger11/9 Monk atm doing other things)

    Check the Emerald Build for inspiration. That is a melee/tank build but we can learn several things from the layout.

    Permutations and options are fun.
    Last edited by Luis_Velderve; 02-14-2012 at 09:27 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by justagame View Post
    I assume you're joking.

    (But just in case you're not, posts like this don't help, don't pretend to speak for others.)

  10. #10
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    the watcher longsword is great for a tempest/monk. bonus to ac, exceptional wisdom, and improved curse gives you another 4 to ac effectively. nice offhand weapon

  11. #11
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Expect ranger enhancements to change. One such mentioned possible change is that they may be able to spend points to get full off hand str damage (dervish prc stuff), which is the main advantage of a monk right now.

  12. #12
    Community Member Jaid314's Avatar
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    if you only want melee for ki generation, i'd probably go short swords and look for one of the 18-20 short swords in the game (the crystal cove ones, for example, is available from level 4 on... if you have them, of course).

    that should let you generate ki like crazy in fire stance or with crane path (or both) so that you can actually use all those cool toys you're wanting in ranged.

    bearing in mind that while you're in ranged, your ki generation will most likely be zero or negative. that said, i haven't played it through; it's possible the ki generation on handwraps is plenty.

  13. #13
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    For extra ki I also recommend Oremi's necklace but you cant use it till level 18 end game. That and water stance and going into hiding. With 2 faster sneaking its not that bad. I took 1 rogue for extra sneaking and traps but 2 fighter has its merits. Water stance increases wisdom and your to hit as well as AC and saves but -2 to strength. If I don't have those I usually just swap to fire stance and its more than enough for ki unless I am frantically trying to use ki abilities.
    Last edited by DustTheWind; 02-15-2012 at 08:46 PM.

  14. #14
    Community Member goodspeed's Avatar
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    you know I was surprised. I tested the bow out with zen and remained centered. But I figured the bow would generate ki as it was a ki weapon. But sadly it did not. Shame to cause id open up a bit of possibilities and definitely give favor to the light monk path.

    Oh how I do wait with giddy anticipation for the marvels of changes coming. Damn you summer come faster!!
    Through avarice, evil smiles; through insanity, it sings.

  15. #15
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    I have a fighter/monk who uses long swords - he would be a stronger toon with wraps.

    The long swords arent terrible and are fine for a flavor build and they work well if you are specifically planning to build for some unique long swords( such as Epic Timeblade or Enduring Conviction.)
    But in general wraps are better.
    Wherever you went - here you are.

  16. #16
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    If you had excellent CC longswords, like a Epic Timeblade and an Epic Sirroco, I'd go with that. Otherwise, probably handwraps with that split.

  17. #17
    Community Member Nytemeir's Avatar
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    Default Short Swords

    I have a similarly built toon. I designed it to work with SS (specifically, Vampiric Fury, from Lordsmarch). They work... ok.... but I'm finding that I'm doing more damage faster with a good set of handwraps.
    I'm really making this up as I go along...

  18. #18
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    If you had excellent CC longswords, like a Epic Timeblade and an Epic Sirroco, I'd go with that. Otherwise, probably handwraps with that split.
    This.


    Handwraps in general have a lot going for them (attack speed, offhand str, tod rings, twf with ONE wep [frees up inv]), if you can stomach the bugs.

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