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  1. #1
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    Default All caster epic chrono guide for newly capped players

    Background – when the all caster eChrono LFM’s started popping up it was basically a no fail epic chronoscope with 0 pots used. Awesome! There was a string of like 30 I participated in without even coming close to failure. After failing 2 of the past three I can see that there are many newerish capped casters who have been carried through this raid that think it’s an easy win. While it may seem that way in most of the groups I’m in, epic chronoscope is still a challenging raid for the unprepared. If you get one piker it will be no big deal but if you happen to bring 3-4 fail casters then your “easy win” will fall short of that mark. Due to the fact that the abishi set is one of the most popular end game gear options and because the pack is so much more affordable, this pack attracts some players who haven’t even set foot into half the raids in the game. For a long time groups were taking first 11 without screening, in order to train up the newbies so that we can continue to be so accepting I have provided a guide to the all caster eChrono for newly capped casters so that you will be a contributing member of the raid.

    I want to start out by advising you newbies to start with the easier raids like shroud, elite DQ, Hound or even getting some DT armor but since you decided to start here at least you should know what you're doing....

    Gear requirements
    You don’t have to be decked out in raid gear but there are some items that are exceptionally important for the all caster eChrono
    1.) +75% damage clicky – eardweller is best so continue to farm that but until then craft a +75% clicky for both caster dots if you’re arcane and for the divine dot if you’re a divine. They are exceptionally cheap to craft even if you don’t have the crafting levels.
    2.) Lore item – more crits and more crit damage please

    This is pretty much all you need to maximize your damage output. Since these items are so easy to come by go get them now. Other than this you need gear that will keep you alive (HP gear, Fortification, shield etc…). If you are doing your job you will likely get boss aggro at some point throughout the raid be prepared for this occasion. In other words 300 HP may not suffice when the Boss is rampaging. Many items from the easier raids which will benefit you in this quest are DQ Torc, shroud Conc opp HP item, SP item, Hound shield. Other nice gear to bring is anything that reduces your SP use (staff of the petitioner, improved maximize, empower items, cove dagger clicky)

    Build requirements
    Take all of the enhancements to boost the damage of your dot spells. For divines there is no reason not to take the entire smiting line including crits. For arcanes I know your enhancements are tight but try to fit in at least one of the two elements. Self healing builds only. Do not bring your fleshy archmage and expect one of the divines to keep you alive. The concentration score for scrolls (if you are scroll healing) needs to be >50 since the devils will teleport to you and strike you for 50-60 points of damage. So it is preferable (but not necessarily required) that you are a WF arcane, a Palemaster, or a divine.

    The strategy

    The market – buff protection from evil so you don’t die to greater command. Resist all elements except sonic. The biggest fight is just outside the bank. Wail/FoD the tieflings. Use ice storm and SLA’s in combination with CC for the devils. Mass hold monster works well here on dancing mobs. If you see an abishi take it out first. Energy drain, then hold, then DPS it down, don’t take chances with these guys because they’re very deadly. Don’t worry about SP during this fight although it is nice to be in a habit of SP conservation just don’t risk anything here because there is a shrine right after this fight (if needed). After this fight usually everyone shrines. If you have 50%+ mana don’t feel like you should just use it because if something goes wrong in the bank you may need to come back to it.

    The bank (bloodplate) – Yes we want to kill the armorers first however, this is the order I think is best. First dot bloodplate 2nd if you have aggro kite him around, if you don’t have aggro hit the nearest armorer with an energy drain and use SLA’s until your dot is off cooldown 3rd Dot again and continue to SLA the armorer. Put up dancing spheres, webs, symbols or any other CC in between rounds. In between rounds you can exit the bank and hit up the shrine in the phoenix tavern if you didn’t use it before. If it’s a horrible group and everyone is running out of mana and everyone used the shrine already you can DD back to the golden wing inn. It may be a good option especially if you’re mostly looking for seals (as this may hurt your chances to finish off the CAD).

    The steam tunnels- don’t leave the top platform. Just dot him from on top. Razor arm will slowly work his way up to the top just shield block his repeater damage and keep him dotted and this fight will be over before you know it. CC the devils until razor arm is dead then take them out. Everyone should end this part with plenty of leftover mana.

    The Abishi – when they’re 5 separate abishi have ONE divine lay down some BB and run back and forth. On my wis dumped FvS it costed 1000 SP to take out the 5 of them and at the time I was only using a superior potency item for boosting the BB damage. In otherwords ANY divine will work and this is more SP efficient than the other methods I’ve seen employed. Feel free to use your SLA attacks. If you take aggro just follow the divine through the BB’s. If anyone is out of mana at this point (only that one single divine should be if anyone is) then DD back. Generally at this point no one has used the steam tunnels shrine. On your First DD IMO you should use the golden wing inn shrine. The most important thing here is that not everyone leaves at the same time. If you have both shrines (steam tunnels and golden wing inn) and you’re at 500 SP but it looks like many others are also at 500 SP feel free to DD immediately so that you’re back when those players decide to DD. Tanking the CAD – everyone will get CAD aggro at some point. It doesn’t matter where you tank him just make sure he isn’t facing the party. Keep spread out in case he turns when he’s using one of his special attacks and hits the party. Generally if you’re spread out well he’ll only get 3-4 and it will be an easy recovery. Just use otto’s sphere of dancing for the devils. Move around if they aggro on you so that you move them back and forth within the sphere. Additional duties – divines raise the dead. If you are a divine don’t ask questions or expect one of the others to do it. Someone dies give them a raise automatically. Even if you have CAD aggro it should be no problem to cast a true rez or even just plain rez. Don’t use cheapskake raise dead scrolls or spells (rez scrolls are fine). Devils are everywhere 10% health is not enough. Arcanes additional duty is to cast DD for divines who need SP and keep up with dancing ball. Also ensure you are using the proper elements at the right times. Load an acid and a fire spell. Electric and cold are covered by the dots. When he gains life from cold stop casting that dot.

    Notes:
    Sometimes it is ok to bring a high damage output ranged toon who can self heal like a WF artificer, a scroll healing (high concentration) ranged arti or monk (with 10k stars manyshot). It’s even ok to bring a SS bard for more SP (the SS can also cover CC and DD when needed) however, if you’re the raid leader and you’re bringing a melee who cannot self heal because he’s a friend and you’re trying to get him some epic gear, a raid token, or whatever you should rethink your plan. It is not fair to expect the rest of the party to pick up the slack. True any 8-10 decent casters can complete this raid but the chances for success go up if you get 12. The chances for failure go up when the casters are not prepared or when you fill vital party slots with non contributors (healing specced clerics, barbs, etc…).

    No offense to you melee toons, we want to bring you also so please roll up a caster there is a much higher success rate in these groups. Whenever we complete the quest the party generally looks like a traditional party anyway as half the players swap to their melee toon. Lastly, I want to say that I’ve enjoyed all of the runs I’ve done and I hope to see you all in group.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  2. #2
    Community Member Combat_Wombat's Avatar
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    from what ive seen many people don't dot they just stand there watching... needs to be a way to tell whos dots on are on target
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  3. #3
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    The other thing I'd add is that almost all trash killing that needs to be done should be done by focus-fired Energy Drains. (For this reason Magewright's Spectacles, the easiest Spell Pen 9 item in the game to get, are very useful). Nominate 1 person to select a target, then everyone else Drains their target.

    Armorers die to 5 Energy Drains in a 2-3 second window (rarely you need six). Bearded Devils are similar but a small number of drains will bounce off Spell Resistance.

    Also don't use Ice Storm on CAD unless you also carry something to put it out (Cyclonic Blast, etc). Sometimes he goes from Fire to Ice, and not being able to lay a firewall on him at that time is just bad.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Miahoo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morticianjohn View Post
    After failing 2 of the past three I can see that there are many newerish capped casters who have been carried through this raid that think it’s an easy win.
    This happen because people start being selective even on caster stuff, and leaders who are know-it-all:
    - LFM is up for fvs, wiz, sor, artis, but not for clerics.
    - LFM is up for divines only.
    - LFM is up for wizards only.
    - LFM is up for a melee.

    I've yet failed an eCaster chrono. Yet, I did left some groups [before we stepped in] becasue of the leader act or being selective.
    I join those caster groups just becasue, I, for a change, dont wanna be a heal/buff bot! I wanna have some fun dot'ing and insta-killing stuff. If I accept a melee into my caster group (happen once), I make it clear they'll have to take care themselves and be able to self heal.

    One eChrono I join had 1 melee in it. I asked the leader about it, and he said he's there to kill the dancing devils (right, becasue only melee can do that!). And then it turns out this melee is lvl 19. I wished the group best of luck and left it.

    Other eChrono I join had 1 barbarian in it. This time I just stay in to see what will happen - and it worth staying!
    At the end fight he snarfled so bad when some other fvs took aggro out of him, and later he also start crying over for heals.

    If a caster group fail (specially eChrono) its all the leader fault! Putting some weird selective lfms will also drive away the good players and get you more know-it-alls to run with.
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  5. #5
    Community Member KutchemesTheDark's Avatar
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    At first this Epic needs to a tweak because it's very very hard to complete in a balanced pug. In this case all melee players making a gimpy caster and after capped join echrono and pike for shards and seals. ( Even he/she has decent player it's not easy to have decent caster gear maybe it's not pike but not great addition for party ).

  6. #6
    Community Member Kayla93's Avatar
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    I never failed ecaster chrono.
    Im making these like twice a day and not finishing (in need of seals not shards).
    Well im not selective MUCH, but prefer to have no more than 2-3 artis + bards.
    And prefer to have at least 1 sorc in group.
    I like to have at least 2 divines (cause lets be honest... if theres only 1 divine he/she is going to work as res shrine in case ;p not fun for divine at all)
    Can live without sorc tho.
    Last edited by Kayla93; 02-07-2012 at 09:53 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Wait . . . all caster runs need a guide besides "hit easy buttons . . . collect loot."

  8. #8
    Community Member nomaddog's Avatar
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    While I appreciate the other OPs instructions for all caster echronos, I believe it is completely viable to have a more 'traditional' group. Our guild often runs with a barbarian/fighter/pally tank, 3 or so healer types, 2-3 arcanes, and the rest misc DPS. We quite often PUG out 3-4 spots.

    I think the real key is having an actual leader who assigns roles and guides those in the group.
    Last edited by nomaddog; 02-07-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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    The only thing i could possibly add: Invite at least ONE melee =P
    cuz it would help them out of course =)

  10. #10
    Community Member lugoman's Avatar
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    I would also add recognize how squishy you may be. If you dont think you can take the boss beating on you, dont dump all your dps on him the second he pops. Let someone else establish agro first.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    Wait . . . all caster runs need a guide besides "hit easy buttons . . . collect loot."
    Like it was said, lots of melee players are making caster toons just for epics, without understanding epics or casters. Not their fault, it's the game.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by countfitz View Post
    Like it was said, lots of melee players are making caster toons just for epics, without understanding epics or casters. Not their fault, it's the game.
    Plenty of people need help because they don't have multiple capped characters and don't live DDO 24/7. Unfortunately while this guide is a good outline, I am not sure most of those players read the forums.
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  13. #13
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Good guide. I've been noticing these groups getting weaker and weaker in general. There is no reason to fail an all caster chrono. It's been 2-manned.

    I've had groups wipe before bloodplate cause red alert. I've had groups wipe at bloodplate. I've had groups wipe at devestator. If I am last man standing I'll do my best but it's generaly done at that point. If no one besides 1-3 people are DOTing and no one is taking care of armorers/regen, these fights can turn into long and arduous ones. I am not drinking pots because someone hasn't learned how to click a button every 12-13 seconds.

    I would mention something about CAD regeneration. Many arcanes don't even seem to know about this. When I have to flamestrike him when in whiteform and festival cookie ice storm him when is in redform when I am tanking, hell yea I am going to have a word with the arcanes.

    Also razor arm fight is so abysmally easy with casters that the corner trick has very little point. That one IS soloable actually-can torc off of his repeater and devil trash.

    While none of the trash in here does a ton of damage (perhaps sky raiders), self healing is assumed and still important. If you bring fleshie casters that cannot heal/look after themselves, don't expect a heal from someone else. When that 300hp fleshie sorc dies for the 5th time, you have to wonder how much they are adding to the group-generally nothing.

    Mostly Melee Chronos generally take longer but are certainly doable. But in a less geared out party it shows right away, and more evidently than an all caster one. I actually find them more fun on my fvs, in a good party. But it's easier to go all caster and switch.

  14. #14
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    I might also mention something about spell pen. That wizard with 40 DC and +22 spell pen will get very different results than the wizard with 40 DC and +32 spell pen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MiahooJunk View Post
    This happen because people start being selective even on caster stuff, and leaders who are know-it-all:
    - LFM is up for fvs, wiz, sor, artis, but not for clerics.
    - LFM is up for divines only.
    - LFM is up for wizards only.
    - LFM is up for a melee.

    I've yet failed an eCaster chrono. Yet, I did left some groups [before we stepped in] becasue of the leader act or being selective.
    I join those caster groups just becasue, I, for a change, dont wanna be a heal/buff bot! I wanna have some fun dot'ing and insta-killing stuff. If I accept a melee into my caster group (happen once), I make it clear they'll have to take care themselves and be able to self heal.

    One eChrono I join had 1 melee in it. I asked the leader about it, and he said he's there to kill the dancing devils (right, becasue only melee can do that!). And then it turns out this melee is lvl 19. I wished the group best of luck and left it.

    Other eChrono I join had 1 barbarian in it. This time I just stay in to see what will happen - and it worth staying!
    At the end fight he snarfled so bad when some other fvs took aggro out of him, and later he also start crying over for heals.

    If a caster group fail (specially eChrono) its all the leader fault! Putting some weird selective lfms will also drive away the good players and get you more know-it-alls to run with.

    Yes, those were the two that failed on me. Maybe if you had stayed we could have won although there were 3-4 pikers in each group. In the first group we failed on bloodplate. I had bloodplate aggro, killed the armorers and accidentally dropped my dot stack on bloodplate. I expected to lose aggro and yet... I did not. I was horrified considering I had not even activated the +75% clicky. Probably the worst group I've ever seen. Each time you left I thought about leaving when you did however, I'm a curious cat and I wanted to see how things would play out. You discerned a lack of leadership in those two groups and you were correct. The more recent one the leader (a cleric) blocked off cleric from the LFM. I explained things a little bit to him after you left but he was clearly new. We failed and reformed and completed with him as party leader but come to find out after he died many times he was wearing the sora kell set (+5 versions), healing scepter from invaders, anger's wrath set from korthos. I'm not sure why he thought he should lead epic chrono (in spite of the fact we completed the 2nd time) it is clear that he didn't even attempt to learn the raid or gear up for it.

    It is for players like him that I thought I should post this. Since he was wearing all F2P gear I wouldn't be surprised if devil assault was the only adventure pack he has. At the very least I can link this page to the next newb leader I come across (since, as many have mentioned, it's not very likely they're reading the forums).



    Quote Originally Posted by MRMechMan View Post
    Good guide. I've been noticing these groups getting weaker and weaker in general. There is no reason to fail an all caster chrono. It's been 2-manned.

    I've had groups wipe before bloodplate cause red alert. I've had groups wipe at bloodplate. I've had groups wipe at devestator. If I am last man standing I'll do my best but it's generaly done at that point. If no one besides 1-3 people are DOTing and no one is taking care of armorers/regen, these fights can turn into long and arduous ones. I am not drinking pots because someone hasn't learned how to click a button every 12-13 seconds.

    I would mention something about CAD regeneration. Many arcanes don't even seem to know about this. When I have to flamestrike him when in whiteform and festival cookie ice storm him when is in redform when I am tanking, hell yea I am going to have a word with the arcanes.

    Also razor arm fight is so abysmally easy with casters that the corner trick has very little point. That one IS soloable actually-can torc off of his repeater and devil trash.

    While none of the trash in here does a ton of damage (perhaps sky raiders), self healing is assumed and still important. If you bring fleshie casters that cannot heal/look after themselves, don't expect a heal from someone else. When that 300hp fleshie sorc dies for the 5th time, you have to wonder how much they are adding to the group-generally nothing.

    Mostly Melee Chronos generally take longer but are certainly doable. But in a less geared out party it shows right away, and more evidently than an all caster one. I actually find them more fun on my fvs, in a good party. But it's easier to go all caster and switch.
    Yes, the groups have gotten worse. I've seen some people filtering for this and considering some of the casters applying I totally understand having a filter. As miahoo said it all falls back on the party leader, the way the group is formed and treated will go a long way to ensuring sucess.

    The big difference between melee chrono's is the gear requirements. Each melee needs a good beater and the gear to put some force behind it. In all caster groups all you need you can buy on the AH for 50k plat. Also I think that the CC requirements are essentially the same but you have less casters to CC. So what an all caster group lacks in DC, spell pen, and player skill is made up for by the # of people attempting. All of this leads to a much higher failure rate for melee eChrono PuGs.

    I mentioned something about the CAD regen in the different forms, however, maybe not in the details needed... maybe I'll go edit it later....
    Last edited by morticianjohn; 02-09-2012 at 08:06 AM.
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

  16. #16
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Nice guide, and yes, no reason to fail. I think it depends on how many people actually know the quest (and that's where this guide helps) and how many are just there to pike (easier to pike in all-caster runs imho, especially because of dots. I've been in some runs where we had just 3-4 dots on CAD).
    The thing is, 6-7 experienced casters can easily carry the rest through the raid, the other 5-6 just casting random stuff here and there.

    But please remember all-caster-eChrono is not the only way to do eChrono. It's been a while since I've seen a "regular" party eChrono pug. Thus I at least support 1 or 2 melee caster runs. A good melee dps or two can actually speed things up. And while self healing is likely a must in this case, remember you can still throw some cures in the melee's direction, if you can save him/her a SF pot why not?

    I had a lot of fun in my last eChrono with a full caster party but me and another melee/AA, I would've made it with 0 SF pots if it weren't for a little mess when coming back from bank, but overall very nice run, great CC by both wizards and sorcs, heals from the divines without ever having to ask for them, and mobs were going down very quickly
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  17. #17
    Community Member Miahoo's Avatar
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    So in the last run I was about to check how many are piking in there. Usually I grab the aggro and tank, no able to see the group and who doing what.

    So I stood there, waiting for someone else to grab the aggro... but I see no one trying too - after like 10 second of the big abishai changing targets, some fvs take it.

    Great! I throw some dots w/o Anathema on (I even missed a stuck on purpose), and then when the other fvs die - it goes directly to me.

    Like, come on, is there anyone else trying to do anything to it?! or the other arcanes doing "green damage" to it?!

    So I took aggro, went to the corner, and tank it.

    At the middle of it all I wanna try again - so I lost the stucks, and after 1 minute it goes to other fvs. but I manage to grab it again later on when stucking my dots again...
    Last edited by MiahooJunk; 02-12-2012 at 09:25 AM.
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  18. #18
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Same story. I regularly get agro when on my fvs without anathema (don't have one) unless there is a decent sorc there or a divine with anathema. Eardweller helps. Lesser maximize clickie helps. Twisted talisman and Etwisted talisman are nice too...

    Usually an arcane gets agro, then blows [it] from smaller sp pool (wizards at least) and double DOTing/nuking, and they ddoor. I have agro then and go to corner and tank till the end. /victory, if the other folks can click a button every 12-15 seconds or so.

    My theory is that arcanes don't actually even LOOK at what form he is in, just blindly eladar and niac DOT him, so are healing him some of the time, and thus tend not to get agro after red form because of that, even with 2 DOTs.

    Or are just piking/have no idea what they are doing/CCing somehow makes them lose DOTs. It's also not usual for ALL the arcanes to ddoor at the same time, which is always nice, suddenly 3 DPs only on him and no good way to combat regen, yay!
    Last edited by IWCoppercrest; 02-13-2012 at 06:42 AM. Reason: inappropriate reference

  19. #19
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    About FvS taking aggro (especially with anathema) this should be expected (and desired). Expected because generally a wizard with 2 dots and less SP will DD out and often a FvS can do the whole fight without having to recharge SP. It is best because they generally have the higher DR, HP and general survivability.

    The way I see things go most often is: he starts in fire mode and most casters are specced for ice so immediately grab aggro. He runs around towards whoever is currently getting the most crits until eardweller (or anathema) arcane takes aggro. They are double dotting him in fire form. Some even nuke him in fire form since they know they get the most damage here. Then they DD and it goes from arcane to arcane until they all DD. FvS still has 50%+ mana gets aggro. Unless he goes back to fire form and stays there for awhile the FvS usually maintains aggro until the end unless it's a long battle in which case he (or she) would need a DD at some point.

    I'm not saying people don't pike in cannith raids (had it happen to me this week one guy links his eSoS asking for deadly and proceeds to go for a swim in the rest of the LoB raid we were doing. Not a word when he left. Comes back at the end without a word and loots the chests along with everyone else but I understand that sometimes "life" happens and takes us away from the game) basically what I'm saying is that it's very hard to tell the contribution of each party member. With enhancements like subtile spellcasting (I also think it's not worth the AP investment but maybe someone took the subtile spellcasting line) and/or anathema maybe one guy is doing 50% more DPS and yet never pulls aggro. So for me I just assume that we all want a completion and that everyone is trying their best and I'll continue to take first 11 on cannith (please cannith don't make me change I don't know how to filter).
    Cannith - Noehealz, Protectorjon, Noebuffs, Mortion

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