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  1. #1
    Community Member Boromirs's Avatar
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    Default Melee DPS is dead:long live casters!

    Yeh so finally come to the realization that playing a melee DPS is utterly pointless... Honestly I think thhe only time a melee is even needed in this game anymore is toward the absolute high end like epic blades ...and its a tank. Lol good game turbine seeya on the flipside.

  2. #2
    Community Member Dwarfo's Avatar
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    cya later!
    Levistis, Orcys, and Thirzax of the Dragon Blood Cult of Maguuma, GW2.

  3. #3
    Community Member Niv-mizzet's Avatar
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    I bet we'll see this or that give a little within the next year or so.

    All things change, and all things happen again. The revival of the melees will come eventually, and I'll be staring at 9-open-spot raid lfm's that I can't join because they "already have a good caster."

  4. #4
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    Ummm, you're in the wrong thread OP.

    What you're looking for is the exact same thread you posted a little under 2 weeks ago.

    I surrender ...

  5. #5
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Ummm... No. Stop posting the same threads over and over.

    Get on the game take your character and go solo something. Outside of raids ya don't need anyone else ... on any class.

    A Baker's dozen in the Prophets of the New Republic and Fallen Heroes.
    Abaigeal(TrBd25), Ailiae(TrDrd2), Ambyre(Rgr25), Amilia(Pl20), Einin(TrRgr25), Emili(TrFgt25), Heathier(TrClc22), Kynah(TrMnk25), Meallach(Brb25), Misbehaven(TrArt22), Myara(Rog22), Rosewood(TrBd25) and Sgail(TrWiz20) little somethings with flavour 'n favour

  6. #6
    Community Member Sirgleno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iaga View Post
    Ummm, you're in the wrong thread OP.

    What you're looking for is the exact same thread you posted a little under 2 weeks ago.

    I surrender ...
    Win!
    Dystopia Starchucker
    Castaspella Practiced Spellcaster
    Ought Machinist

  7. #7
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boromirs View Post
    Yeh so finally come to the realization that playing a melee DPS is utterly pointless... Honestly I think thhe only time a melee is even needed in this game anymore is toward the absolute high end like epic blades ...and its a tank. Lol good game turbine seeya on the flipside.
    DOOOOoooOOOOOMMMMMM!!!111!!!1!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #8
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    So I was in this raid yesterday after taking a break for a few months, and was asking around about recent changes. When I realized nothing had really changed and class balance was still ridiculously skewed towards casters I started complaining, just because I like to hear myself whine.

    Long story short this one mage took offense to it, and asked at one point if I was jealous, to which my reply was no, I could go log my mage alt on. Clearly this is what turbine is pushing the game towards.

    Might as well just change it from Dungeons and Dragons Online to Dungeons and Mages Online. Now if I'm playing a fighter for example, I'd clearly expect my roll in a group to be limited. If theres only a few things I can do well, and few I do mildly well, and some things I suck at, I'm ok with that.

    My issue with class balance is that casters can do everything well. Once you get to the point where casters can do everything melees do just as well, plus everything else, your game fails at class balance. I don't want my melee to be able to do everything, neither do I want casters that can do everything.

    Look at what they do, they can insta kill/aoe/cc/big damage spells/aoe/dot/buff/debuff/heal/and probably 19 other things I'm forgetting. Thanks to dots and self healing they can even make better tanks then melees now. I don't even know how anyone could pose even the slightest argument classes are well balanced.

    The only 2 arguments people seem to like to kick around on the forums to make their case classes are balanced is
    1. Melees are better at low levels. Let's just assume this is totally true...then great, melees are better for the portion of the game most people rip through in a couple days, and suck the other 99% of the time, thats balanced eh?
    2. Mages are total uber gods in pnp. Yeah, but these people also like to leave out that ddo has sp, and older dnd stuff had spells per level. Sure wail might be awesome, but turbine has failed with their conversion from spell per level to sp system. In spell per level you might only be able to cast wail 5x, but sp, you just run around spamming it every time the cooldown is up, which for most quests is a lot more then old dnd. The limited resource argument is also kinda pathetic, given sp regen gear that in most content can give you unlimited sp if you know how to play, and sp pots, which really aren't tough to get.

  9. #9
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    @McFlay actually 3.5e DOES have an MP system.....also some of us have lives and can't hit level 20 in a weekend so thats frankly a irrelevant point.

    @OP: I'm sorry but I play both melee, ranged and caster characters and I feel just as powerful on my melee as I do on my caster only the ranged ones seems to lag behind but honestly I don't care if melee's get a huge boost with this summer update as long as no class becomes useless (and multiclassing doesn't get destroyed which with the current proposed system it will)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #10
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    Gear and play a melee well and you wont feel casters are so OP..

    I enjoy running endgame on my capped Barb as much as on my capped FVS

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Just a little FYI insulting other forum goers is against the forum rules.
    I didn't insult anybody. Please reread, with comprehension, what I posted. Telling someone that they're wrong isn't the same thing as insulting them.

  12. #12
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faent View Post
    I didn't insult anybody. Please reread, with comprehension, what I posted. Telling someone that they're wrong isn't the same thing as insulting them.
    I would class "You have no idea what your talking about" & "Your obviously not qualified to be in this conversation because I'm far superior due to participating in this particular 1% of the game that you OBVIOUSLY haven't although I have no actual way of discerning that" as insults.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 02-14-2012 at 01:11 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    I would class "You have no idea what your talking about" & "Your obviously not qualified to be in this conversation because I'm far superior due to participating in this particular 1% of the game that you OBVIOUSLY haven't although I have no actual way of discerning that" as insults.
    I don't think you understand how quotation marks work. Anyone who reads this would assume that I posted the following:

    >>Your obviously not qualified to be in this conversation because I'm far superior due to...

    But of course, I posted no such thing. What you've done is taken what you take my post to express and attributed to me an expression of what you take my post to have expressed. Please don't do that. If you want to quote me, quote me. But please don't attribute to me statements I never made.

    Sometimes folks have no idea what they're talking about. You don't insult somebody by observing (or, if you like, expressing the opinion) that they don't know what they're talking about. Consider. Jane Doe states that ice freezes at 90 degrees Fahrenheit. I respond: "Jane, you have no idea what you are talking about." Have I insulted Jane Doe? Of course not. Or perhaps Jane states: "A Fighter should dump CON." I respond: "Jane, you have no idea what you are talking about." Insult? I think not.

    Please don't treat being corrected as being insulted. To do so is to make a grave mistake.

  14. #14
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    Playing with no casters is not only possible, but actually fun.

    Running epic quests with self-sufficient melees feels like the old 8/16 bit era games, excpet you get to play with up to 5 other people

    Sure, building a self-sufficient melee takes a while, running quests with those parties takes longer than a caster zerg, and the only reward you get is the more fun game, but played that way, DDO is the best online game I know of.

    On the other hand, playing DDO with a caster feels like those text based games I hacked together at school. Check at the spreadsheet if your score plus a random number is high enough, if it is, you win, if not, you don't, but you get to try again as many times as you want. I hd fun with that when I was 13, today I don't enjoy it as much anymore.
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

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  15. #15
    Community Member Denegrator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boromirs View Post
    Yeh so finally come to the realization that playing a melee DPS is utterly pointless... Honestly I think thhe only time a melee is even needed in this game anymore is toward the absolute high end like epic blades ...and its a tank. Lol good game turbine seeya on the flipside.
    Can I have your stuff??

    Seriously though, was it necessary to open a second almost identical thread to the one you already posted?
    Last edited by Denegrator; 02-14-2012 at 05:45 AM.
    Hello, hope all is well. And if it isn't, sorry about that.

  16. #16
    Community Member Such755's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullmachine View Post
    Gear and play a melee well and you wont feel casters are so OP..

    I enjoy running endgame on my capped Barb as much as on my capped FVS
    What he said.

    Although I haven't capepd my barb yet, at level 18 I still do more damage and get more kills than most casters.
    I enjoy it as much as I enjoyed my wizard and sorcerer life.


    Well maybe a bit less than wizard, because crowd control is just fun :P

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such755 View Post
    What he said.

    Although I haven't capepd my barb yet, at level 18 I still do more damage and get more kills than most casters.
    I enjoy it as much as I enjoyed my wizard and sorcerer life.


    Well maybe a bit less than wizard, because crowd control is just fun :P
    If you're doing more damage and getting more kills than a caster then you're playing with the wrong casters.

  18. #18
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Wow, is end-game is only running Epic quests solo and scroll-farming?

    There's no reason he can't be running epics regularly on his Barb, and contributing effectively. Lots of people run things IN GROUPS because they like the MULTIPLAYER part of the game.
    Agreed.. That's a pretty silly definition of end-game content...

    The only epics I solo are the challenges, and in most of those, I find a ranged character is actually more useful than a caster (especially the long ones with no shrine)
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex301 View Post
    If you're doing more damage and getting more kills than a caster then you're playing with the wrong casters.
    If you are a proper built melee and geared properly and not getting as many or more kills than a pesky wizard/fvs/cleric/sorc then you are not playing your melee properly.

    There are very few sorcs/wiz that can beat out my barb or fighter if I plan accordingly for the content I am going into. Be it Running with devils on elite, shroud, Amrath quests or whatever. The problem I see many melee have is that they settle into using one or two weapons 100% of the time, instead of having a variety of weapons designed for a specific quest.

    I am not sure how many times I have had a sorc tell me after a quest to give them tips as their barb is not performing anywhere near where mine did for that quest. They want links to equipment I have, build advice etc because I either topped them in kills or was within 1 or 2 of them by quest end.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mubjon View Post
    If you are a proper built melee and geared properly and not getting as many or more kills than a pesky wizard/fvs/cleric/sorc then you are not playing your melee properly.

    There are very few sorcs/wiz that can beat out my barb or fighter if I plan accordingly for the content I am going into. Be it Running with devils on elite, shroud, Amrath quests or whatever. The problem I see many melee have is that they settle into using one or two weapons 100% of the time, instead of having a variety of weapons designed for a specific quest.

    I am not sure how many times I have had a sorc tell me after a quest to give them tips as their barb is not performing anywhere near where mine did for that quest. They want links to equipment I have, build advice etc because I either topped them in kills or was within 1 or 2 of them by quest end.
    Up until endgame a sorc can pretty much one shot groups of enemies. It really isn't possible for a melee to out kill them as everything will be dead before they get to hit something. With a good DC casters can just wail or implode groups of enemies as well. For bosses casters have their DoTs and can do more damage than any melee. Swapping weapons for a few percent more damage isn't going to make up this difference.

    Of course there are some quests where their sp management can become a problem but for the most part they're better than a melee.

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