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  1. #461
    Community Member Warinx's Avatar
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    Encumbrance is a pen and paper thing to make sure your players aren't carrying the world with them. But in Ebberon we already are carrying the world with us. 40 weapons etc etc, so just remove it no reason for it to stay in.
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  2. #462
    Community Member gphysalis's Avatar
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    Default Portable Holes

    Since part of the game has already indicated that at least some of character's backpacks are made of portable holes (note the portable hole collector) It would be quite reasonable to remove encumbrance with the clause "A portable hole repairman finally fixed everyone's backpack to weigh a very small amount"

  3. #463
    Community Member Gorbadoc's Avatar
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    At first I thought, "No, don't change the game!" Then I put some thought into the matter, and I had trouble picturing myself missing encumbrance if it just went away overnight.

    Finally, I thought of one situation where encumbrance would be missed: Strength Drain effects. The mechanic should be comparable to wisdom and will-save effects.

    Wisdom
    • Wisdom is an offensive stat for clerics and monks; ANY wisdom loss weakens them.
    • Fighters and barbarians don't care about wisdom.
    • Fighters and barbarians can still benefit a little from wisdom, to the extent that it helps versus will-save attacks.

    Strength
    • Strength is an offensive stat for melee builds; ANY strength loss weakens them.
    • Wizards and sorcerers don't care about strength.
    • Wizards and sorcerers can still benefit a little from strength, to the extent that it helps versus strength drain attacks.

    In both cases, on a class that doesn't specifically use the stat, the stat still does something. Against certain attacks, wisdom protects against being disabled, while strength protects against being slowed.

    In conclusion, I would like to see encumbrance basically go away; however, I would still like to see strength be marginally helpful to a wizard. Maybe add a mechanic where you get slowed if your strength drops below some threshold value.

  4. #464
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    altho... if the encumbrance system went away....
    halflings essentially loses what penalty they actually get
    monks don't have to worry about being uncentered due to weight
    casters don't have to worry about picking up those armor loots slowing them down


    =\
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    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
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  5. #465
    Community Member Cyndrome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay203 View Post
    altho... if the encumbrance system went away....
    halflings essentially loses what penalty they actually get
    monks don't have to worry about being uncentered due to weight
    casters don't have to worry about picking up those armor loots slowing them down


    =\
    these are bad things?


    Oh no - halflings will be OP!!!

    My monk has plenty of strength- never been uncentered due to encumbrance; does anyone have a low strength monk?.

    Oh no casters are going to take all the heavy armor and will have more loot to break down for essences.

    The killer is getting encumbered due to dragonshards and challenge ingredients- simply ridiculous. Ditch it please.

  6. #466
    Community Member Ungood's Avatar
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    The more people ponder it, the more I see that Encumbrance is really just a fluff, or flavor thing, and adds near nothing to the game, in any way.

    It it went away tomorrow, I can see clearly that no one would miss it. So if there is talk on the table to remove it, then, I think it would be ideal to remove it.

  7. #467
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    I tend to disagree;

    If you dump:

    • Con. get few HP, low fortitude saves
    • Dex. low Ac, low reflex saves
    • Int. less skill points
    • Wis. low will saves
    • Cha. harder to gain plat and use UMD


    As you can guess by yourself, WHATEVER class you choose will be affected by the downside of dumping a stat. But eliminating the encumbrance calculation it would be something like:

    Str. low to hit and damage bonus. That's all. A real win/win for casters who do not need to use STR to damage opponents.

    If you like to min/max you have to pay the consequences (which are also rare in this case...), this isn't some other game where all you need to do is to hold down the left mouse button...

    Encumbrance adds some P&P rules flavor to the game and oblige you to think before pressing the "loot all" button

    Yes, if you erase encumbrance, probably, no one will cry. But the same would be eliminating spell components, right? So let' s get rid of those too if encumbrance must go.
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  8. #468
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    I'd settle for just removing weight from 'things in bags'.

    I still won't be able to carry quite as many crossbows, stacks of 100 scrolls and hotswap helms/boots as I'd like, but that's probably reasonable and creates somewhat interesting choices about what to pack.

    I even like that a 10 strength character can't loot many full plates without being encumbered, and that ray of enfeeblement/waves of exhaustion/symbol of weakness, do matter if you get very low on strength.
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  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    I'd settle for just removing weight from 'things in bags'.

    I still won't be able to carry quite as many crossbows, stacks of 100 scrolls and hotswap helms/boots as I'd like, but that's probably reasonable and creates somewhat interesting choices about what to pack.

    I even like that a 10 strength character can't loot many full plates without being encumbered, and that ray of enfeeblement/waves of exhaustion/symbol of weakness, do matter if you get very low on strength.
    Isn't this already true? I notice this on my crafter arti who is always teetering on the edge of encumberance. Pulling shards in or out of bags I certainly notice this.
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  10. #470
    Community Member Jay203's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyndrome View Post
    The killer is getting encumbered due to dragonshards and challenge ingredients- simply ridiculous. Ditch it please.
    ingredients and shards should never have been assigned any weight to begin with =\
    PS: Greensteel RUINED the game! and you all know it!
    less buffing, more nerfing!!!
    to make it easier for those of you that wants to avoid me in game, all my characters are in "Bladesworn Mercenaries"

  11. #471
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    Encumbrance adds absolutely nothing to the game except annoyance.

    In pen & paper, such annoyances are dealt with by real bags of holding. We really ought to be carrying around a lot more powerful stuff than that by 20.

    This game at the end has become "Manage your Inventory: The Game" for me & the Mrs.

    Please make inventory less of a hassle. This is definitely a step in the right direction.

    It's not fair for my caster to not be able to carry around the expensive ingredients bag I bought because it weighs 500 lbs.

  12. #472
    Community Member Gurei's Avatar
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    Default meh

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodasch View Post
    It serves a couple of purposes:

    1.) It makes it actually have consequences to dump strength on a caster.
    2.) It allows for strength drain/damage effects to have an effective result at values that don't quite reduce the stat to zero for classes who aren't reliant on strength for their damage.

    I believe encumbrance should be retained...but with the following changes:

    1.) All equipped gear should apply half it's weight to encumbrance. (It's easier to "carry" the weight of worn gear than it is to tote it around otherwise)
    2.) Items stored in containers (collectibles bags, gem bags, quivers, ingredient bags, etc) should have zero effective weight inside the container. The container should have a set weight instead (such as 5 lbs for a medium and 10 lbs for a large, maybe 15 lbs for a huge). These weights would not change whether empty, full, or anywhere in between.
    3.) Scrolls, Potions, Spell Components, and other expendable items should have no effective weight or much less weight than they do now. A stack of 1000 pinches of find sand should not weigh 10 lbs, at most it should weigh 1 lb.
    4.) Gear stored in the first 3 "backpack" slots on the character sheet should have it's full weight applied to encumbrance.
    5.) Gear stored in all additional "backpack" slots should apply a fraction of it's weight to encumbrance (isn't the rationalization for the expanded backpack slots something about Bags of Holding?)

    I think that would make a good compromise.
    Everything here, but may I add that weapons may NOT be stored in the bags of holding then? This sounds ridiculous, but it reflects the risk of using BoH's with the whole "sharp objects will rip the bag, causing all items to get sucked into a different plane."
    Last edited by Gurei; 05-10-2012 at 11:55 AM. Reason: quoted later post since it better fits my ideal encumbrance
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  13. #473
    Community Member Teelk_Jafffa's Avatar
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    Default Encumbrance

    I would like to see encumbrance removed for a couple of reasons, these being game mechanic issues. Currently with bags being BTC If I true resurrect I cannot currently access some bags that are BTC because of the weight of the bag. This in effect prevents me from accessing certain bags when I am low levels after a TR and not being able to wear my strength enhancing items. The current item to weight ratio is IMO not well implemented. You purchase a bag to increase your storage space and a benefit of purchasing this item should be to improve your game play not hinder it. If I purchase an item IRL that item is mine to do what I want with it. I can give it to my child, my friend, or a family member, why are certain items that I pay IRL money restricted to the character I purchase the item while shopping in the DDO store. The current BTC/BTA system seems to have no real structure to what distinction is placed on them. I would prefer to see all store bought items BTA. This would not remove or devalue the unbound items that can be found as loot. Yes this would have some small impact on a few items, but I do not see this as game breaking. The encumbrance of bags is different than backpack slots. The funny thing is most people point to how it breaks current rules of physics or isn't realistic. The whole point is this is a fantasy game. There is no real rules other than what the game masters say are real. a Quote from Gary himself "The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules. " If encumbrance had any "real" bearing on the game I would be all for keeping it, but as the current system stands it only prevents new players or characters that are low level from accessing something that they have purchased or earned. With this being said I would like encumbrance removed from the game with regards to items in bags and more items become stackable inside bags.
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  14. #474
    Community Member Rodasch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Encumbrance: what value does it really bring to DDO?

    How many of you would mind if this just sort of 'went away'?
    It serves a couple of purposes:

    1.) It makes it actually have consequences to dump strength on a caster.
    2.) It allows for strength drain/damage effects to have an effective result at values that don't quite reduce the stat to zero for classes who aren't reliant on strength for their damage.

    I believe encumbrance should be retained...but with the following changes:

    1.) All equipped gear should apply half it's weight to encumbrance. (It's easier to "carry" the weight of worn gear than it is to tote it around otherwise)
    2.) Items stored in containers (collectibles bags, gem bags, quivers, ingredient bags, etc) should have zero effective weight inside the container. The container should have a set weight instead (such as 5 lbs for a medium and 10 lbs for a large, maybe 15 lbs for a huge). These weights would not change whether empty, full, or anywhere in between.
    3.) Scrolls, Potions, Spell Components, and other expendable items should have no effective weight or much less weight than they do now. A stack of 1000 pinches of find sand should not weigh 10 lbs, at most it should weigh 1 lb.
    4.) Gear stored in the first 3 "backpack" slots on the character sheet should have it's full weight applied to encumbrance.
    5.) Gear stored in all additional "backpack" slots should apply a fraction of it's weight to encumbrance (isn't the rationalization for the expanded backpack slots something about Bags of Holding?)

    I think that would make a good compromise.
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  15. #475
    Community Member Noctus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    The trivial-cost spell components are stupid, annoying, pointless, and actually contrary to the 3.5 rules. Just give us a spell component pouch. We can carry it next to our spellbook (i.e., not in our inventory). And use the same rules 3.5 uses: trivial cost components are assumed to be contained in the spell pouch. Heck, the spells could even get their "unique" material components back in the spell description, instead of the generic level-based ones. More flavor, less hassle.
    The encumberance-system just adds a nice amount of fluff and good complexity to the game. And it mostly comes into play only when STR-dumping char gets hit with a debuff. But i dont feel strongly about it staying or disapearing.


    The current Spellcomponent-system for non-goldcost components is what i´d like to see gone. 3.x subsumed all these trivial components into your Component Pouch, and you only had to keep tabs on the expensive ones used for certain spells (Raise Dead, Stoneskin, ....). The DDO-system adds nothing to the game.
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  16. #476
    Community Member Dendrix's Avatar
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    The following items should all be made weightless (like gold, silver and copper doubloons) (i.e. assigned a weight on zero)

    Spell Ingrediants
    Collectables
    Crafting Ingrediants

    That would restore weight and Encumberance to how it should be for D&D.

  17. #477
    The Hatchery SisAmethyst's Avatar
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    This post is several months old and the thread is still going ?
    Anyway, if we already beat a dead horse ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Encumbrance: what value does it really bring to DDO?

    How many of you would mind if this just sort of 'went away'?
    First of all, wrong question as "Encumbrance" itself is a penalty, something negative and barely could have any "value" to bring to DDO.

    On the other hand it adds more then flavor to the game as it also explains while you get helpless if you got energy drained. If we go on with the idea the next step would be to say, the d20 base values for STR will be replaced by a slider that has an imaginary value behind, as the value itself doesn't really matter as long as you slider is near the max position for a fighter.

    It is a basis for several elements of the game mechanic, and have several impacts like for monks being centered or not. If encumbrance is unimportant, we could as well remove all weapon prefixes like strength sapping then as they don't make any sense anymore. If we already remove those however we could also removed maladroit, wounding and bleeding.

    So while I usually don't mind encumbrance I fear it will screw up the whole game if you start walking that road. In fact I think the opposite would be more interesting, so if strength would have an influence like if there would be some kind of force feedback or physics influence that you actually would feel that you swing a Greateaxe or a Rapier
    * We have collectable bags, hell even hireling folders, but can I have that 6-pack for my potions please?
    * Having already a past life on the dieng EU servers, I rerolled here and started from scratch as I like the game and the community, so lets see what awaits me here

  18. #478
    Community Member jambajuicey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobril View Post
    This.
    +1

    There is a penalty for low STR, and while we dont use it in PnP its only because of the mechanincs to track and deal with it that take away from game time. I won't insert the 'I remember when gold weighted you down in EQ' OMG that sucked, but it had some value.. use the bank.

  19. #479
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    If our bags were true Bags of Holding, then I can see why encumbrance should be removed.
    Otherwise, encumbrance right now is rather pointless because it's unrealistic. Cloth-wearing characters carrying thousands of pounds of loot and other things, and still able to perform complicated tasks like spell casting?
    My vote is to either move encumbrance, or make it seem more realistic by significantly reducing the amount that can be carried through the strength stat, and/or increase the penalties when the load is too great.
    The purpose for encumbrance should also be considered. What was it meant to do in the first place?

  20. #480
    Community Member sapman2's Avatar
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    Dump it.

    Plenty of other penalties for low strength. Not interesting or fun.

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