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  1. #201
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    Default I am unpersuaded

    Well, I do not find, and have never found, the encumbrance rule to bring any 'flavor' to D&D. It was a limiting nerf designed to steer players in pnp - if used at all. I always referred it to it as the 'minutiae police' focusing on rules rather than actually enjoying a story. Flavor is music, graphics and the story. "Encumbrance" is nostalgia of a bygone way the game was written and can be cut as part of an MMO.

    As for 'realism' - a pretend world of magic used to escape 20+ century Earth is a different 'reality' than Earth, so let's stop trying to take our reality and impose it on DDO. I, for one, am happy to suspend my belief of our real world physics while I am playing a game. You are already suspending your belief in dozens of different ways in this game as to how players act and work, why encumbrance somehow is the one 'reality' we have to hang onto - I do not understand.

    With regard to strength affecting spells, I do not find this persuasive. The spells should not be taking into account, in an MMO, everything in your backpack. In a pnp game, you would not be carrying all of the weapons, armor, collectables, widgets etc anyway, the way you do here. The spells will STILL affect you - based on your stat sheet. It just will not take all the intrinsic extras an MMO has that pnp doesn't. Do you really want a 1 page backpack and everyone being *required* to go to the bank and swap out optimal equipment for their next quest? No.

    So, upon further review of the subsequent commentary to my initial post, I keep my position that encumbrance is of no use in this DDO mmo as currently structured and I would not be sorry to see it go in the least.
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  2. #202
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    For the purposes of gameplay encumbrance has been a lightly talked about topic between me and guildies/friends, mostly on how it sucks to be a caster with the current system in place in that aspect. As for removing it, that would be nice if it was removed and the current bag system was taken out for more of an infinite storage system which would work with the 2nd view of the inventory and with the search option wouldn't be that bad to navigate.

  3. #203
    Community Member Nataichal's Avatar
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    Not only would I not mind if encumbrance went away, I was actually pretty irritated today when I logged in and found that my caster can no longer carry my shroud ingredients bag without becoming heavily encumbered. I'm not normally the type to gripe about stealth changes, but this one was BS.

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  4. #204
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    1'm 100% in support of removing spell comps from the game...I'm only 99.9% in support of removing encumbrance.

    I'd rather see it be altered such that you start with a much higher base value of what you can carry and strength has a more marginal effect. My 25+ str monk should not become "uncentred" just because I was hit by one ray of enfeeblement spell.

    But if I'm choosing between system as is and removal...yep, remove it.
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  5. #205
    Community Member TempestAlphaOmega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalhowl View Post
    I disagree with your assertion because there have been Dev posts that invalidate two of your three complaints.

    The deadly weapons issue has been under discussion since Eladrin indicated that it wasn't supposed to be released. It is well known that the spell has not been working as intended. So the Devs change it and *in advance* say that it will be adjusted back when they get it working.

    The Madstone issue is actively under consideration. Gensai has already posted a possible change and asked for input. He also indicated that the intention was to modify the boots to allow clickies but still penalize casters...

    I am also unclear how the fort changes affect melee more than casters. A human FTR with 100% Fort and a human WIZ with 100% fort both would experience the exact same reduction from an attack by a mob rogue. How does that affect a melee character more than a caster? Furthermore, there are melee-themed items that boost fort that are not suited for casters, meaning that a melee is more likely to be able to ignore the decrease in fort.
    I have to agree with you here.

    Deadly weapons, we were told it wasn't supposed to let loose into the wilds of live land and that it was not WAI. They could have just shut it off all together but rather gave us a place holder. Is the place holder as good as the not WAI/not intended to be released version? No, but it is better than nothing until they get it WAI.

    I was not happy about the original Madstone changes and am glad they are looking into changing those changes so the change is less of an impact to my toons that like to impact things up close.

    As you said there are items that add exceptional fortification and the ones I can think of off the top of my head are all more appropriate to a melee rather than a caster toon to wear.

    As to the real topic of the thread, just dump encumberance. It will lesson the impact of spells that reduce STR but overall it would probably be easier to just dump it entirely than to re-write a system that allows weight in some back packs and not others (KISS people), actual inventory slot limits (both toon and bank) are enough of a limit for me, now if you want to give me a huge bank or a small home to store the hoards of stuff that I would gather (if this was a PnP game) then so be it but since that isn't what we have here I would vote to just dump it.
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  6. #206
    Community Member parvo's Avatar
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    What good does losing hit points do to the game? What good does failing a save do? What good do traps do?

    So, a low strength character hit by enfeeblement (that has already been nerfed into negligible duration) has no impact. Oh well...keep blazing the trail to challenge-free play. Better games will come along.
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  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primalhowl View Post
    I am also unclear how the fort changes affect melee more than casters. A human FTR with 100% Fort and a human WIZ with 100% fort both would experience the exact same reduction from an attack by a mob rogue. How does that affect a melee character more than a caster? Furthermore, there are melee-themed items that boost fort that are not suited for casters, meaning that a melee is more likely to be able to ignore the decrease in fort.
    1. Casters have the option to stay further away from enemy weapon attacks and still be effective themselves, while melee cannot make that choice.
    2. Casters have higher Fortification than melees. The highest Fortification on DDO players belongs to Wizards.

  8. #208
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillEveryone View Post
    I wouldn't notice.

    If anything, the junk that gets put the collectables and crafting bags should be weightless since there is just soooo much we can or need to get.
    Since it's barely adhered to anyway, and encumbrance really just gets in the way of the fun stuff, I wouldn't mind if it went away.

    But if it did, maybe some items such as heavy armor, tower shields, great axes, etc should have minimum STR requirements to use them. I think there should be SOME downside to dumping str.

  9. #209
    Community Member Primalhowl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelus_dead View Post
    2. Casters have higher Fortification than melees. The highest Fortification on DDO players belongs to Wizards.
    So because one particular subset of one particular class of a much larger group can get the highest fortification, all casters have higher fortification than melees?

    I may be wrong, but that seems like a piece of false logic.

  10. #210
    Community Member Combat_Wombat's Avatar
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    People shouldn't be encumbered from all the crafting ingredients they basically have to haul around most of the time. BUT encumbrance is a very important aspect of the game that keeps strength dumped characters in check in many ways and the game would be very damaged by the removal of the system.

    All races should have an equal base carrying weight(poor halflings), loot should weight shouldn't change, crafting ingredients should be weightless, and strength draining spells should still mess up strength dumped gimps.
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  11. #211
    Community Member Sgt_Hart's Avatar
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    Question Trouble is.. its only half the math.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Encumbrance: what value does it really bring to DDO?

    How many of you would mind if this just sort of 'went away'?
    If it vanishes fine. I'd in truth, tenatively call it a bug, as half the equasion(Compared to PnP) is unimplemented or just plain AWOL, or AWOL & Unlikely..

    Well, I guess the question really is: Would it be worth implementing Bag of holding, Horses, or floating disc's (or all) to balance the books?
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  12. #212
    Community Member zex95966's Avatar
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    I'll be the only one here that will defend it i'm sure.
    It gives a reason for casters to invest in strength.
    on the other hand, it's not like every stat is important as-is. Wisdom in particular has zero use to anything but divine casters.

    I do think they numbers for weight based encumbrance could be raised though.
    A 6 strength halfling is unplayable tbh. There is a difference between unplayable and "dam I wish I invested in strength a little."

    I think the numbers could be safely doubled for encumbrence.
    but then again, maybe I'm just used to carrying lots of things and need to break out of that habit perhaps.
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  13. #213
    Community Member Claransa's Avatar
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    Seems to me that if we can run around with up to 5 million plat in our pockets you may as well finish what you started and just get rid of encumbrance altogether or make up your minds and fully enforce encumbrance, in which case no one is going to be able to move around due to the all the weight even 1 million platt is going to add up to.

    All this talk about realism and consistency with PnP rules is rubbish, just get rid of encumbrance already.

  14. #214
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    Default Can't believe this...

    So from reading this thread every DDO player (or to be fair, a vast majority) is a sissy who can't deal with being encumbered.

    Encumbrance, at least IMO, is a much needed aspect of the game. It basically makes it so that people can't go around packing 6 million platinum coins.

    I like the fact that encumbrance is actually being brought up, as it really does allow for discussing a few things that don't work to a realist's liking within DDO it self.

    I'm really all for making the game more like the PnP 3.0/3.5 version, There's a few things that really bug me about the game you can find at the bottom, and just 3 NOT simple things/additions that I would personally love to see happen on the game:


    A) Money can be stored in the bank, or the guild's chest (bank vault free for F2P as well)

    B) Money and just about everything, weights you down (unless it's in a collapsed portable hole pocket, After-all, that is extra dimensional...)
    So, to match that theory, only stuff placed in inventory panels 1-3 and Money and will actually affect weight. Collectables bag will add their conent's weight to the total carried only if contained in inventory slot 1-3 -- And while I'm at it, I'd ask that they'd be fixed so as to allow selling gems again in case they weren't already.

    C) Rogue Characters (and everyone else) were granted a new skill, Sleight of Hand; And allowed to pick pockets just like it happens on the good old PnP.
    Naturally, this would need to also take into account the fact that one can attack within the city, and therefore can't technically recover his looted coin purse.
    To rectify I would suggest that upon a sleight of hand attempt, the player whom the skill was used on should be allowed all it's attacks,spells,etc. which will only affect the pick pocket.
    The pickpocket would drop the loot upon a single successful hit, and the coin purse would drop down as a collectable bag already does from monsters.

    Doing all this, or something like this, would probably reduce the utter ridiculous amount of plat, or gold that people carry around; Making it so that MAYBE the auction house prices aren't so insane...
    I'd like to see some dude carry 200k platinum coins in real life... You'd need a friggin wheelbarrow just to be able to walk about!


    Here's the other things that really annoy me personally (which are all OT btw, just need to vent :P ) :
    1) Magic Missie's casting/targeting tactics.
    In PnP (because it's round based) You can definitely target different targets on your attack. At high levels, your magic missile dealing around 25dmg can actually be deadly to most low level enemies, and when an enemy dies at the first 2 or 3 hits, you waste the remaining missiles, instead of having them automatically redirect onto an enemy.

    2) The insane AH costs. The maximums should be locked in on a +200% value of the item.

    3) The near total absence of Large collectable (or other types of) bags in game loot.

    4) The fact that Tomes don't stack... Really, I think they should add 3 different titles to each of the books/stats After-all, you can learn a lot IRL from reading one single book, and if you read 3 different ones about the same topic you do learn even more...

    5) The absence of an "ingredients" bag for your spell components.
    as a Sorc/Wiz in PnP My characters always carry a separate bag that is usually very easily accessible (sort of like a quiver if you will) where all the components are stored.
    I find the fact that level 1-8 of material components takes up almost a full page of inventory space, They should weight be down, but they should not keep my inventory cluttered, I'd rather see these inv. slots empty!


    Anyways, just my 2 cents... I'd hate it but I'll play the game even if encumbrance is gone (or I might ask for a refund on my membership :P) ...

  15. #215
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    I never, ever even notice encumbrance...


    Ever...

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by andy310 View Post
    Encumbrance, at least IMO, is a much needed aspect of the game. It basically makes it so that people can't go around packing 6 million platinum coins.
    Are you aware that coins currently have no weight and do not affect your encumbrance?
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  17. #217
    Community Member ThomasMink's Avatar
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    I've dealt with encumbrance in Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Neverwinter Nights, and more.. ..I also deal with it in DDO.

    I do agree that the multitude of ingredients, components, and collectibles probably shouldn't have weight.. but I'd likely miss encumbrance if were to just disappear. I'd adapt to it, of course, but eh.. I'm so used to it being there anyway that it almost feels like a nonconcern.
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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by zex95966 View Post
    It gives a reason for casters to invest in strength.
    I know this hard for min/maxers to acknowledge and harder to accept, but many, many players create balanced characters without min/maxing. Not everyone plays the game to reach end game and dominate Epic settings.

    IF the ONLY reason to keep encumbrance is some rational that casters are forced to put build points into strength, only new players and 1st lifers are being affected. I fail to see what this adds to the MMO in any respect whatsoever.
    Last edited by Hafeal; 01-27-2012 at 07:41 PM.
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  19. #219
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    And I will add, IF you think the encumbrance of a back-pack, designed for MMO purposes, is too heavy, than pretend in your head that when you reach a fight, your character throws it on the ground. *Wala*

    Then, if you are hit be a strength affecting spell, and would be encumbered after your fight, pretend you camp out until it wears off.

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  20. #220
    Community Member goblean's Avatar
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    Only time it was used in PnP, was when someone was manipulating so many other rules in our campaigns. It was like arresting a mobster for tax evasion.

    With real portable holes, bags of holding, and handy haversacks (my favorite) missing from the game there isn't the typical way to solve the issue of encumbrance. The other item we have in game is gems. Gems were typically used to carry large sums of money, when encumbrance was used. In DDO there are no high value gems, and plat weighs nothing.

    So, in summary encumbrance is not needed along with copper, silver and gems.

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