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  1. #1
    Community Member dasungeheuer's Avatar
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    Default Dear Turbine: Time to ax .NET 1.1

    Dear Turbine,

    I'll make a case as to why now is a great time to get rid of .NET 1.1 in the launcher.

    - Windows 8 will drop support for .NET 1.1 entirely. This means you need to move within the year, anyway.

    - Windows 8 beta will be out in one month. You'll have a chance to test your game on the new OS before the OS goes RTM.

    - There are a number of potential customers right now that encounter issues with installing .NET 1.1. Most of those will not call support or look on the forums, but abandon the game right away. You can bring all of those potentially lost customers into the game by removing the .NET 1.1 requirement from the launcher.
    You'll also recoup the time your tech support staff spends on .NET 1.1 issues today.

    - Converting a .NET 1.1 app to a .NET 2.0 app is reasonably easy. There are some breaking changes, but not a huge number of them afaik. http://blogs.msdn.com/b/swiss_dpe_te...0-and-3-5.aspx is a good blog on migration.


    I'll also say: I'll be completely shocked if Turbine actually removes 1.1 from the launcher before Windows 8 hits shelves. I fully expect that DDO won't work on Win8 day one, and we'll have a 3-6 month delay before it does after retail availability. Still, I'd love to be proven a cynical bastard.

  2. #2
    Customer Service Representative Mirthgar's Avatar
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    Default

    Since there's not really a technical support 'question' in the classic sense and it's more a suggestion post I've moved it here.

    NOTE: The Customer Support forums are for Player-to-Player help, for official support, please submit a ticket to the appropriate team via the form here.

    After contacting support, log into your email webpage to add noreply@turbine.com and accountsupport@turbine.com to their "safe senders" list and your contacts list/address book. Be sure to check Spam/Junk Mail folders as well since most email providers do not let external email programs or cell phones download mail flagged this way.

  3. #3
    Community Member Quarterling's Avatar
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    Default

    Wow thanks for the heads up, though I did just upgrade my computer from Vista to 7 two weeks ago, I won't be going to 8 anytime soon; but still good to know.
    Have you ever wanted to create your own customized user interface skins for DDO?
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  4. #4
    Community Member dasungeheuer's Avatar
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    I am now running Windows 8 consumer preview. The good news is: While .NET 1.1 is officially NOT supported in Windows 8, it will still install (showing you a warning that it's not fully compatible), and TurbineInvoker will work (after crashing on accept of license, but it's cool the 2nd time around).

    DDO is indeed working in Windows 8 as-is.

    Is it seamless? Non-scary? No. There are warnings. There are crashes. There's a .NET 1.1 install (with dire warnings) followed by a .NET 2.0 install (which comes with the 3.5 package in Win8). I still think that abandoning .NET 1.1, and making the launcher 2.0 (or later) across the board, is the right way to go.

  5. #5
    Pirate Cursed Talias006's Avatar
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    So... Windows 8 isn't going to be primarily a tablet based OS?

    I've heard rumors/news tidbits that 8 was to be used first and foremost by tablets upon release.

    Is this not true?
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  6. #6
    Community Member Quarterling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talias006 View Post
    So... Windows 8 isn't going to be primarily a tablet based OS?

    I've heard rumors/news tidbits that 8 was to be used first and foremost by tablets upon release.

    Is this not true?
    My roommate just made his OS on his desktop Windows 8 yesterday, so I can personally confirm that it won't be exclusive to tablets.

    ...I wouldn't recommend trying it out yet though since there's probably a number a bugs still in it.
    Have you ever wanted to create your own customized user interface skins for DDO?
    Click this sentence for a tutorial learning how, an easy-to-follow video guide.

  7. #7
    Community Member dasungeheuer's Avatar
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    @Talias: Certainly not just a tablet OS. You can read about it all over the place (here for example: http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b...r-preview.aspx), and try it on your machine.

    To the argument that .NET 1.1 must die: Here's a thread that's been going on for 2 months, where someone on Win7 could not install .NET 1.1. (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=358461). It's not resolved, and I don't expect it to be at this point. Here's someone who cared enough to go to the forums, and try things, which means he'd likely have stuck with the game - but he can't get in because of .NET 1.1 dependence.

    Get me more people to group with! Replace .NET 1.1 in the launcher.

  8. #8
    Hero, Mo Bro H'ro, & MB Super-H'ro ComicRelief's Avatar
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    Default Another Option

    Another option to the Win8 non-support of .net1.1 is to install a virtual machine (VM) running Win XP (or even Win 7, on Win 8 machines). You can either use a freeware (for personal use) program like VMWare, or use the Windows Virtual PC offered by Microsoft. (You should have enough RAM to run both OS's - the 'host' OS and the VM OS. I recommend at least 2 GB, but "more is better", if you can afford it.)

    I highly recommend anyone who is running Win 7 (heck, you can even run VMWare on Win XP) to get and install a virtual machine option - I run VMWare on my work laptop (Win 7) for various reasons (one is that I use 'competing' software packages for programming different platforms and they don't play nice together - so I have a separate VM for each package - no more incompatibility issues at all - NONE) and it works very, very well.

    It also allows you to back-up your entire VM by copying the *one* (large) file. Was your VM hit with a virus? No problem - simply delete and restore your backed-up machine-file. You'll be up and running again in litteraly minutes.

    *This has been an un-paid advocation for running vitural machines on Windows platforms.
    "...At least it tells us they understand our language; they're just not willing to speak to us in it. -Who knew they were French?"

  9. #9
    Community Member dasungeheuer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicRelief View Post
    Another option to the Win8 non-support of .net1.1 is to install a virtual machine (VM) running Win XP (or even Win 7, on Win 8 machines).
    I don't think VMs offer full access to the GPU, do they? There's a simulated graphics card in there, and it gets better when the "tools" are installed - but I recall the regular Windows desktop having some performance issues in a VM, never mind a game. I'm not convinced VMs are useful for gaming.

    Technical mumbo-jumbo aside: That's not any kind of solution, and not something players would embrace. I'm trying to get more people to group with, not less!

    Release Preview due in first week of June. I'll be re-testing then.

  10. #10
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quarterling View Post
    My roommate just made his OS on his desktop Windows 8 yesterday, so I can personally confirm that it won't be exclusive to tablets.

    ...I wouldn't recommend trying it out yet though since there's probably a number a bugs still in it.
    But doesn't it use that same idiodic scrolly tablet/phone type interface instead of a desktop view?

  11. #11
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    But doesn't it use that same idiodic scrolly tablet/phone type interface instead of a desktop view?
    I think you can change that, but it is NOT intuitive at all on how to move back and forth.

    Tablet interface requires an utterly different mindset compared to standard windows. Aka, think less, punch the screen.

  12. #12
    Community Member Rumbaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComicRelief View Post
    Another option to the Win8 non-support of .net1.1 is to install a virtual machine (VM) running Win XP (or even Win 7, on Win 8 machines). You can either use a freeware (for personal use) program like VMWare, or use the Windows Virtual PC offered by Microsoft. (You should have enough RAM to run both OS's - the 'host' OS and the VM OS. I recommend at least 2 GB, but "more is better", if you can afford it.)
    3D games in a VM environment ... um no thanks.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    How does this 2.0 works on win XP?
    Because more people uses older (even very old) systems than brand new ones.
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  14. #14
    Community Member dasungeheuer's Avatar
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    Well, the launcher uses .NET 1.1 AND .NET 2.0 today. .NET 2.0 works fine in Windows XP, and is required today to launch DDO.

    By moving the portions of the launcher that are .NET 1.1 over to .NET 2.0 as well, only one .NET version is needed, and it's a version that is still supported from XP over Vista and 7 all the way to 8.

    So, no matter the version of Windows you'd be running, getting rid of the .NET 1.1 dependency in the launcher would make things easier.

  15. #15
    Community Member Giddian's Avatar
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    Default

    I found the Fix on the LotRO Forums

    Move everything {Files and Folders}

    C:\Program Files (x86)\Turbine\DDO Unlimited\Patches

    to

    C:\Program Files (x86)\Turbine\DDO Unlimited


    Fixed the Issue instantly

  16. #16
    Community Member dasungeheuer's Avatar
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    That depends on what you consider "the issue" to be. I think "the issue" is that .NET 1.1, which is no longer supported by MS in Windows 8, is required at all. Copying those files does not change the fact that the launcher is written to require both .NET 1.1 and .NET 2.0.

    My argument is that installation would be easier, and less users would be turned away initially, if the launcher required only .NET 2.0.

  17. #17
    Community Member dasungeheuer's Avatar
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    Thank you, Turbine. It took you a year longer than I might have hoped for, but you got there. The new launcher no longer requires .NET 1.1. Here's to you!

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