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  1. #1
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Default Alchemical wraps

    So, I am going to start crafting my alchemical wraps for one of my light dx/wis based monks. It seems that either Air/Air/Air (+2Ds) or Air/Water/Air (+2Wis) are my best options. Irrc my QP and jade strikes have a dc's of 33 and 43 with ship buffs. If I go air I get +1 to hit, and get lightning strike and double strike 6%, if I go water then I get +1 to my DCs for thinks like jade strike, and corrosive salt/crushing wave. I am leaning to the air/air/air for the "to hit" and double strike primarily since my dc's are pretty good already and I unsure of the benefit of a slightly higher strike dc's. T
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  2. #2
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Something to remember is that that doublestrike bonus can help you proc extra stun hits.
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  3. #3
    Community Member MsEricka's Avatar
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    Also remember that if you make your wraps byeshk they increase your damage die by a step. This doesn't stack with a lot of stuff, but it does mean that you can wear other things than perhaps the garments of equilibrium.

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    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsEricka View Post
    Also remember that if you make your wraps byeshk they increase your damage die by a step. This doesn't stack with a lot of stuff, but it does mean that you can wear other things than perhaps the garments of equilibrium.
    Like the Frozen Tunic.
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  5. #5
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsEricka View Post
    Also remember that if you make your wraps byeshk they increase your damage die by a step. This doesn't stack with a lot of stuff, but it does mean that you can wear other things than perhaps the garments of equilibrium.
    yep yep! I'm probably gonna go with air/air/air but still thinking about corrosive salt and crushing wave...
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  6. #6
    Community Member Dark-Star's Avatar
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    I made mine a while ago, and had the same decision to make.

    The 6% Double Strike is partially off set by Epic Spare Hand's 3% Double Strike. Lightning Strike is neat, but after Eladrin posted the actual proc percentage, our average damage per hit number went down. A lot of stuff is resistant or immune to lightning in the new content. Dex is meh.

    Water is more DPS on paper, however it does not stack with others using the same procs, and more importantly, it does not stack with itself, meaning you do far less real DPS because you are constantly restarting your DoT timers. Untyped damage is better than electric. There are times when using DoT wraps is the worst idea, and can wipe a raid. Wisdom is a great stat to raise.

    In the end I went Air/Water/Air, mostly for the +2 stacking wisdom. For non-DC based monks I would say go Air/Air/Air.
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    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    I don't think TierII Water is worth it, for most Monks. Against trash, those procs suffer compared to TierII Air, because your target is likely to be dead before the full duration of those procs ends, and because Lightning-immune, stunnable trash isn't very common. Against bosses, those DoTs are a huge potential liability, especially against LoB.

    Really, I'd only put TierII Water on weapons meant for a tank character. There, the DoT effects are actually a nice bonus, for retaking aggro after teleports or jumps.

  8. #8
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark-Star View Post
    I made mine a while ago, and had the same decision to make.

    The 6% Double Strike is partially off set by Epic Spare Hand's 3% Double Strike. Lightning Strike is neat, but after Eladrin posted the actual proc percentage, our average damage per hit number went down. A lot of stuff is resistant or immune to lightning in the new content. Dex is meh.

    Water is more DPS on paper, however it does not stack with others using the same procs, and more importantly, it does not stack with itself, meaning you do far less real DPS because you are constantly restarting your DoT timers. Untyped damage is better than electric. There are times when using DoT wraps is the worst idea, and can wipe a raid. Wisdom is a great stat to raise.

    In the end I went Air/Water/Air, mostly for the +2 stacking wisdom. For non-DC based monks I would say go Air/Air/Air.
    Hmmm... my sparehand is only 20 tier 1.. but it's a work in progress.. I might even have the second tier water essence... the scales are tipping to water again...
    On Khyber: Tchpostick (Monk 20) Tablespoon (WF barb20), Pspoon (Eleven Cleric20), Tsirio (Halfling Bard18), Silvr (Human Rogue2/Wizard18), Ladle (Elven Cleric11), Forq (Human Bard14), Sporkk (Human Fighter lvl20), Tspatula (monk20)

  9. #9
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    I don't have one myself due to my fighter getting alchemical ingredients atm, but second tier earth to me looks like the way to go on handwraps - +2 con is nice, disintegration is nice and works on everything, and the damage is not affected by the weapons other people use, which is a nice bonus.

    Barring earth, I'd go air, though.
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  10. #10
    Community Member smithj_2020's Avatar
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    I think the best way to go on these wraps is def air/air/air....i really wanted to possibly get greater stone prison on my future alch wraps....but air is just awesome for the monk class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    I don't think TierII Water is worth it, for most Monks. Against trash, those procs suffer compared to TierII Air, because your target is likely to be dead before the full duration of those procs ends, and because Lightning-immune, stunnable trash isn't very common. Against bosses, those DoTs are a huge potential liability, especially against LoB.

    Really, I'd only put TierII Water on weapons meant for a tank character. There, the DoT effects are actually a nice bonus, for retaking aggro after teleports or jumps.
    This. Water is tempting because of the +2 wis, but the Corrosive Salt and Crushing Wave aren't good against trash. You're regular attacks will probably have a stunned target dead long before those DoTs do anything. Whereas, Lightning Strike on a stunned mob is 900+ damage. If it goes off right after a stun, it saves you a lot of time, even/especially on epic mobs.

    Alc wraps are amazing when fighting trash. The +5, stunning +10, even the HA +4 are all nice, and then the 6% doublestrike and lightning strike are just baller. And, as dkyle said, lightning-immune stunnable trash is pretty rare (a few demons), so the untyped damage vs. lighting damage thing isn't really an issue at all.

    I would highly recommend tier 2 air over tier 2 water.

  12. #12
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    I'd recommend water T2.

    Wisdom +2 is +1 dc.

    Corrosive salt and crushing wave together are more dps than lit2.

    6% doublestrike is nice, but I do not believe it stacks with air stance, and can be partially replaced by epic spare hand, which further increases your dc.

    Both air or water can also increase your ac by another point as well if that's your thing.
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  13. #13
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    I'd recommend water T2.

    Wisdom +2 is +1 dc.

    Corrosive salt and crushing wave together are more dps than lit2.

    6% doublestrike is nice, but I do not believe it stacks with air stance, and can be partially replaced by epic spare hand, which further increases your dc.

    Both air or water can also increase your ac by another point as well if that's your thing.
    Two points about your post - the 6% doublestrike stacks with air stance, and the known issue with corrosive salt and crushing wave make these worse, as someone else's weapons (of which you may or may not be aware they have) can lower your dps just by having one or both of those properties.

    After thinking about it, I've decided that the second tier depends mostly on what you intend your alchemical wraps to accomplish. If you mainly intend to use them for trash, air/air/air would definitely be recommended...if you plan to use them for boss fights, I would recommend either fire/earth/air or air/earth/air....in all honesty, I'm planning to do air/air/air handwraps as they'll be my tanking wraps on my monk, and net me 1 extra ac.

    As far as the +1 dc from water, especially with the epic spare hand now...a monk's DCs can easily be more than high enough for almost everything (bladeforged paladins may still suck, but I doubt 1 dc will make a difference there...).
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  14. #14
    Community Member Taimasan's Avatar
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    If your a non Earth Stance monk I would advocate going something other than the second tier of air.

    Earth/Fire/Water Monk=Air/Air/?

    Air Monk= Air/Water
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  15. #15
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    Two points about your post - the 6% doublestrike stacks with air stance, and the known issue with corrosive salt and crushing wave make these worse, as someone else's weapons (of which you may or may not be aware they have) can lower your dps just by having one or both of those properties.

    After thinking about it, I've decided that the second tier depends mostly on what you intend your alchemical wraps to accomplish. If you mainly intend to use them for trash, air/air/air would definitely be recommended...if you plan to use them for boss fights, I would recommend either fire/earth/air or air/earth/air....in all honesty, I'm planning to do air/air/air handwraps as they'll be my tanking wraps on my monk, and net me 1 extra ac.

    As far as the +1 dc from water, especially with the epic spare hand now...a monk's DCs can easily be more than high enough for almost everything (bladeforged paladins may still suck, but I doubt 1 dc will make a difference there...).
    On a dark monk, you want all the dc you can get for touch of death, dark curse, and dark fists. That extra wisdom is amazing.

    Also, what known issue are you referring to with salt and wave?
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  16. #16
    Community Member Taimasan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    On a dark monk, you want all the dc you can get for touch of death, dark curse, and dark fists. That extra wisdom is amazing.

    Also, what known issue are you referring to with salt and wave?
    I think it is probably a wash between Air/Air and Air/Water. Determined by playstyle, enhancement sets, gear loadouts and primary stance choice.
    For the OP and the entire thread, it is impossible to put a finger on the best crafting choice. It is going to cater to your build. Air/Air is perfect for Quis, but for another toon another choice may be much better.
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  17. #17
    Community Member WruntJunior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blank_Zero View Post
    On a dark monk, you want all the dc you can get for touch of death, dark curse, and dark fists. That extra wisdom is amazing.

    Also, what known issue are you referring to with salt and wave?
    On the dark monk, I don't quite see +2 wisdom from the alchemical wraps making a huge difference....assuming the boss is kept sundered, the easy-to-acquire 40 dc should be more than sufficient. However, I can see a point here.

    For the salt and wave, I'm referring to how other people in the party using a salt or wave item can reset the timer for the damage...therefore, other people using these effects is actually lowering your dps, making this less attractive.
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  18. #18
    Community Member Diyon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    For the salt and wave, I'm referring to how other people in the party using a salt or wave item can reset the timer for the damage...therefore, other people using these effects is actually lowering your dps, making this less attractive.
    I'm not sure that's a know issue per se, as it's following how a lot of other effects work.
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  19. #19
    Community Member wax_on_wax_off's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WruntJunior View Post
    but I doubt 1 dc will make a difference there...).
    You'd be wrong here. 1 DC will make a huge difference with monk abilities and in this regard wisdom can never be high enough (at least until your QP is working 95% of the time which is impossible afaik).

    If it wasn't for the stacking and aggro issues of Corrosive Salt and Crushing Wave water would win by a country mile. However, these bring it somewhat back into contention and I'd make my decision somewhat like this:
    1. Will T3 Epic Spare Hand be used? (if yes then go water)
    2. Using wraps for teleporting boss fights and not tanking? (if yes then it favours air more)
    3. Using wraps for teleporting boss fights and tanking? (if yes then water all the way)

    Personally, I have GCB wraps for LoB so my Air/Water wraps work nicely for everything else (49 stunning fist DC works on orange named Bearded Devil Troopers in echrono, Cacodemon's in eDQ1 and everything else I've tried though sometimes Improved Sunder is needed too).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diyon View Post
    I'm not sure that's a know issue per se, as it's following how a lot of other effects work.
    Anyway, it's an issue (wether WAI or not) which cause these effects to be best dps if noone uses them, and not optimal if several people use them - a DDO equivalent of the prisoner's dilemma.
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