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  1. #1
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    Default Hauteclere, DoS kensai ninja with dragonmarks and longswords

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Female
    (8 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 6 Monk) 
    Hit Points: 272
    Spell Points: 80 
    BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
    Fortitude: 20
    Reflex: 15
    Will: 14
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             15                    20
    Dexterity            16                    17
    Constitution         12                    12
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom               14                    14
    Charisma             14                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               3                     3
    Bluff                 2                     2
    Concentration         1                     1
    Diplomacy             2                     2
    Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
    Haggle                2                     2
    Heal                  2                     2
    Hide                  3                     5
    Intimidate            2                     2
    Jump                  2                     5
    Listen                2                     4
    Move Silently         3                     3
    Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair               -1                    -1
    Search               -1                     1
    Spot                  2                     4
    Swim                  2                     5
    Tumble                n/a                   n/a
    Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a
    
    Level 1 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Whirling Steel Strike
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness
    
    
    Level 5 (Monk)
    
    
    Level 6 (Monk)
    Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
    
    
    Level 7 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
    
    
    Level 8 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 15 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 16 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    
    
    Level 18 (Paladin)
    Feat: (Selected) Diehard
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons

    Fully admitting that I have gone quite mad, anyone see any problems with this build?
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  2. #2
    Community Member BinyaminTsadik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by elg582 View Post
    anyone see any problems with this build?
    Where to start?

  3. #3
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    Alright, I'll try to be constructive

    Hit Points: 272 <- Way too low

    Lets see what you will have at level 20 with good gear:

    +7 Con item and Litany: +80
    Argonessen Favor: +10
    Greater False Life: +20
    Toughness: +20
    Ship Buff: +20
    +2 Con Tome: +20
    Mountain Stance: +20
    Shroud HP Item: +45
    DOS Stance: +20
    = 507

    +10% from DOS
    = 557

    Thats is 557 Hitpoints when FULLY geared, which means you will probably start on shroud with around 440-460 Hitpoints since you won't have GS HP item, you won't have +7 Con item, you won't have Litany. 557 Hitpoints is also in both DOS and Mountain Stance which means you'll draw in lots of agro, agro you won't be able to survive with that few hitpoints in elite/epic raids and quests.

    Your saves are fine though, which means you can be a good tank for bosses that require high saves, such as the Abishai in Epic Chrono. You just need more Hitpoints.

    Here's a few tips to increase your Hitpoints in this build.

    * Dump your wisdom down to 10. With +2 ship buff it will leave you with enough Wisdom to cast Paladin spells, even if you don't have any Wisdom item on. Later you'll get a Wisdom item and you won't really need 14 starting Wisdom. I would only go higher in Wisdom if you were going for AC, but your build isn't set up for AC, so you won't be able to get any really meaningful AC end-game. Use the build points you get from dumping wisdom a bit, to increase your Constitution.
    * Drop the two Dragonmark feats. They're absolutely horrendous, and with Ninja Spy 1 they're even more useless than normal. Invisibility you get for absolutely free from having Shadow Fade of Ninja Spy 1, you don't need to waste an entire feat on it. Displacement you will either get from a caster, or if its that important to you I would just craft a shroud clicky that casts it. A shroud clicky would only cost small and medium mats, of which you'll have an abundance. Take 2 toughness feats instead.
    * Drop Diehard. Fighter levels should give you the Tower Shield proficiency required to take the DOS 1 PrE, so you can dump Diehard entirely. It is also a pretty horrible feat.

    With 2 more Constitution and 3 additional Toughness feats, you'll start looking far more "tanky". 14 Constitution still smells kinda low to me, but I guess you can live with it since you're an elf and 16 Con is very expensive on elves.

  4. #4
    Community Member elg582's Avatar
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    First, Clay, let me be thank you for being constructive; I appreciate the help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayness View Post
    Alright, I'll try to be constructive

    Hit Points: 272 <- Way too low

    Lets see what you will have at level 20 with good gear:
    .
    .
    .
    = 557

    Thats is 557 Hitpoints when FULLY geared, which means you will probably start on shroud with around 440-460 Hitpoints since you won't have GS HP item, you won't have +7 Con item, you won't have Litany. 557 Hitpoints is also in both DOS and Mountain Stance which means you'll draw in lots of agro, agro you won't be able to survive with that few hitpoints in elite/epic raids and quests.
    Aside from the fact that I was planning on being in wind most of the time, good point, but I have plenty of melee DPS with ~500 hp with the same displacement/ninja fade combo. Also, do you really think that this build will be drawing aggro late game, even in earth?

    Also, I should have at least the 25 HP GS item by 15 or 16, and a +6 CON, so I'm only ~40 hp behind max.


    Quote Originally Posted by Clayness View Post
    * Dump your wisdom down to 10. With +2 ship buff it will leave you with enough Wisdom to cast Paladin spells, even if you don't have any Wisdom item on. Later you'll get a Wisdom item and you won't really need 14 starting Wisdom. I would only go higher in Wisdom if you were going for AC, but your build isn't set up for AC, so you won't be able to get any really meaningful AC end-game. Use the build points you get from dumping wisdom a bit, to increase your Constitution.
    I see this in every build I ever make; you understand that you are talking about 20 hp for 4 build points, right? No, my AC isn't going to matter end game (elite/epic), but neither will 20 hp


    Quote Originally Posted by Clayness View Post
    * Drop the two Dragonmark feats. They're absolutely horrendous, and with Ninja Spy 1 they're even more useless than normal. Invisibility you get for absolutely free from having Shadow Fade of Ninja Spy 1, you don't need to waste an entire feat on it. Displacement you will either get from a caster, or if its that important to you I would just craft a shroud clicky that casts it. A shroud clicky would only cost small and medium mats, of which you'll have an abundance. Take 2 toughness feats instead.
    That's where you go crazy; I've heard this one before, too. First, displacement and ninja fade work together for 62.5% miss that works against almost everything in the game, with end game bosses being the major exception. Second, what I have found with clickies, especially since I have already blown most of my smalls on displacement for my characters that don't have dragonmarks or spells, is that I tend not to use them; it's like barkskin potions, where if I have the spell I keep it up constantly, but chugging potions is not only expensive but also time consuming in the middle of a fight, so I almost never do it.

    My characters with the clickies have the problem you discuss; I tend to save it for particular fights in a dungeon, and half the time a caster gives it to me, anyway. If I have the DM, though, I keep it up all the time. /shrug

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayness View Post
    * Drop Diehard. Fighter levels should give you the Tower Shield proficiency required to take the DOS 1 PrE, so you can dump Diehard entirely. It is also a pretty horrible feat.
    Very good point, I had completely forgotten about the free tower shield proficiency. I stuck that in there since the original build was 8 ranger instead of 8 fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clayness View Post
    With 2 more Constitution and 3 additional Toughness feats, you'll start looking far more "tanky". 14 Constitution still smells kinda low to me, but I guess you can live with it since you're an elf and 16 Con is very expensive on elves.
    I think I'm going to meet you halfway here; you're right, I don't need diehard, but I think that the displacement DMs are more valuable than you think. Even so, that should put me over 600 hp, which is plenty for current end game content.
    "You lie down with rats, and the rats run away."

  5. #5
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    What exactly are you looking to do with this build? DoS (and maybe Earth stance) suggests "hate tank;" but as pointed out, your HPs and possibly your AC are a bit subpar for that. WSS brands this as a flavor build - period; as a dark monk, you'd be better off using short swords, crafting a couple of epic Smallblades, and saving yourself two feats. And in general I think 8 / 6 / 6 builds are weaker than 12 / 6 / 2 builds (depending on the mix of classes); have you considered, say, monk 12 / pally 6 / ftr 2 using handwraps (ToD etc.)?

    I've built my fair share of Shadow DM builds, so I'm no min-maxer who hates flavor builds; but I'm not seeing a lot of synergies here.

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