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  1. #161
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoogroves View Post
    Make them strength and dex checks, not saves - similar to a trip check. Melee love.
    Yeah, air elementals should be dangerous for casters, but easier for melee to handle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Blasting Chime's Weaken Construct doesn't work on Lord of Blades. Really?
    It works fine on lob, it has since the first patch. Having a chime in group versus not is a huge difference in completion times.

    Likewise the chain is nice for abbot. Not as nice as people are generally running bluntweapons with no imp crit but it's still a pretty decent increase in dps over the course of along hard/elite encounter with him.

    Tunic is pretty good for any melee really even at tier 1 as freezing ice added to any weapons you use is absurd.

    Even factoring in a full raid party and overwriting waves and salts calomels are in most cases the best dps weapons available against velah (esos is the lone exception and then only with a very large dmg modifier)

    The rapier of air pwns rad II rapier so much it isn't even funny even with the save on greater sirrocco (which very little saves against). Elemental bow is nice as is greataxe.

    Caster stuff is nice. Rock boots, bracers, cloak are all really good (better than tier two alchem in most cases.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
    LeLodar LeLothian LeLoki LeLoman LeLonia LeLog

  3. #163
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danotmano1998 View Post
    While I haven't personally run any of these challenges, I CAN comment on one thing I see:
    Almost NO LFM's for these, ever. I do believe I can count on one hand the total number of PUGS I have seen on Thelanis for any of the challenges.
    The LFMs for these are increasing on Thelanis... I see 2-3 every night (unfortunately, they are usually not the ones I need, so I just solo)
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by TedSandyman View Post
    Some people brag about how fast they finished the game. I cant think of a stupider thing to brag about. Or in this game, going from level 1 to level 30 in two days, or however long it takes. I can't even begin to imagine what drives a person to think that is fun. You are ignoring all of the content and options and going for sheer speed. It is like going to a museum and bragging about how fast you made it through. Or bragging about how fast you finished a good steak.

  4. #164
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    I wanted to give props for the post below. Just a little thought and modicum of creativity would have tied a story line to the challenges to give them a more immersive element.

    +1, well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by dunklezhan View Post
    I have another thought - and this is going to be such a minor point for a lot of folks it is probably irrelevant to the majority, but its relevant for me.

    Where's the plot?


    The challenges are just tacked on to the game. There's about a paragraph of text at each quest giver which gives some fairly 'meh' reason why we're doing the challenge. It follows none of the plot strands of the game generally that I've noticed, there's no link between the challenges themselves, no hard link to House C... they're quite clearly arcade games tacked on. They don't feel part of Stormreach, they don't feel part of the rest of the DDO game itself.

    Perhaps if the challenges were spread around the various other houses, with themes appropriate to those houses. e.g. House Apprenticeship challenges.

    House Phiarlan Challenge
    Be a Phiarlan spy!
    Enter the House Phiarlan Academy entrance exam, and stealth your way into the traitor's lair past all the traps and guards, eavesdrop on the secret meeting without being detected and steal the secret plans! Bonus stars for not raising an alarm, not killing guards and getting poison into the drinks at the meeting without being detected!


    House Deneith Challenge
    Join the Sentinel Reserves!
    Prevent the construct army from taking the command post, either by holding the line or taking the fight to the enemy!

    and so on.
    The evolution of DDO: Stormreach to Eberron Unlimited to Dungeons & Dragons Online
    -1- -2- -3- -4- -5- -6- -7- -8- -9- -10 - -11- -12!! years & still spawning kobolds
    From Turbine to SSG, who are the devs anyway? DDO Peeps Tracker


  5. #165
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    The rapier of air pwns rad II rapier so much it isn't even funny even with the save on greater sirrocco (which very little saves against).
    This particular weapon was insanely disruptive in a heavy melee eADQ1. One of the procs of it will trigger a Cyclonic Blast effect and blow away clouds, dancing balls, and other types of CC.

    That is the second weapon that is actually detrimental to a group in the same update (the other being the dispelling Paladin sword from VoD, that knocks off debuffs and DoT's).

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarisa View Post
    This particular weapon was insanely disruptive in a heavy melee eADQ1. One of the procs of it will trigger a Cyclonic Blast effect and blow away clouds, dancing balls, and other types of CC.

    That is the second weapon that is actually detrimental to a group in the same update (the other being the dispelling Paladin sword from VoD, that knocks off debuffs and DoT's).
    Absolutely incorrect. The slicing winds animation is the same as cyclonic blast but it is the same in only appearance. Functionally it only does dmg there is no blowing away of effects.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
    LeLodar LeLothian LeLoki LeLoman LeLonia LeLog

  7. #167
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Absolutely incorrect. The slicing winds animation is the same as cyclonic blast but it is the same in only appearance. Functionally it only does dmg there is no blowing away of effects.
    Yet in our experience, every time it went off, the dancing balls went away, along with the Mephit's fog.

  8. #168
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    Scaling in these are just awful.

    The rushmoor ones need some tweaking. both with crests and mat drop rates. Lets say you are running it @CR20 for reg mats and you hit an impressive score of 5000, this will net you approx 500 mats. Sounds good right? WRONG, since you will have spent 35-40 minutes in there.
    Running lava caves or extraplanar you can pull 400-500 reg mats every 8 min. Even converting 2:1 you still get twice as many.


    Some of the kobold island optionals to get stars are impossible. no I dont mean impossible hard, I mean they are broken and cannot be completed. I think the wiki has been updated about those optionals now.

    that being said, the challenges are the best epic token farm in the game. with a good group I am hiting 12/hour.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    The LFMs for these are increasing on Thelanis... I see 2-3 every night
    same on orien. ofc we stay away from the kobold island and rushmore's unless we are going for favor.

  10. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    It works fine on lob, it has since the first patch.
    Ugh. Sure would have been nice to see that in the release notes. Silly me for thinking that important debuff changes like this would be communicated to the community.

    Thanks.
    Kobeyashi | Hamada | Ying

  11. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    Solution:
    Keep the current scaling, but turn the challenges into raids. (at least on epic 25)
    Please, no. Challenges are not an acceptable substitute for raiding content.
    Kobeyashi | Hamada | Ying

  12. #172
    Community Member Firewall's Avatar
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    I have quite a lot of reasons NOT to run the challenges:

    - They don't feel like they belong to the rest of the game

    - I don't like quests where you have to do something in a predefined time window or where you have to defend or keep alive some stupid squishy NPC's. Coyle is hard enough to bare.

    - I run with PUGs a lot and i think these challenges are especially PUG (and solo) unfriendly

    - I don't like the "i'm more uber than you are because it took me 3 seconds less to complete the challenge"- part of it

    - I'm P2P and bought all the adventure packs except this one since it is way overpriced and i don't like buying (-and i don't like that it is possible to buy-) special items from the store to make it easier running the content (which makes the whole "I'm more uber than you" thought of it even more useless).

    - Since i'm not buying the pack i don't even like to collect all the different daily tokens - which fill more of my precious inventory space - just to be able to run one of the challenges when i feel like i want to play it or when i want to help one of my guildies. Not collecting tokens means to be dependant on what the game allows you to play that day.

    - I don't like to have a whole bunch of useless crafting materials filling my bags and inventory. Managing to sort and keep track of all the other crafting materials in all the bags and divided over all my characters is more than enough time-sink work for me. I think we should have special bags for each different crafting type anyway. Keeping green bags sorted becomes more and more difficult.

    - Playing mainly a caster-type FvS, a Pale Master and a Monk most of the items that you can craft from the challenges are useless to me. The only thing i would even consider crafting is the humanoid bane ring but i'm not even sure if it would be worth exchanging it for one of my crafted Tower of Despair rings.

    I'm sure i forgot something but those are my main reasons. I think you get the idea.

    Leo
    Last edited by Firewall; 01-12-2012 at 12:56 PM.

  13. #173

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    I really, really, really like new quest mechanics that are not, "make it to boss, kill boss" goals. Even Rushmoor is a bit of a variation, as the starting goal is "kill any one of five".

    I've been reaaaally frustrated a couple of times in Rushmoor, on the other hand, when I've had a ton of crests, but because of random generation, was short on exactly one. This is exacerbated when soloing. I've gotten fairly decent at running this solo, and usually manage the ones that I need, but it's really, really frustrating when you've done a scorched-earth scouring of all corners/mobs/breakables in the servant's quarters, gallery, and entrance hall and are still, say, missing a monkey -- which of course is needed on both two-crest doors! My suggestion would be to reduce the number of different crests to 4. You still ultimately need to break and kill most stuff on the way through, since you still need a *lot* of crests to open all of the doors -- but the number of cases of "I've got 5 of everything *but* Monkey should go down.

    A few of these aren't "soloable" -- at least, not without a hireling. Notably, the crystal collection missions basically require someone to defend from "Incoming!", and a second person to scout and run torches. It's notable that Kobold Island *could* have fallen victim to the same problem, but while solo you can erect magefire cannons as defense, and have a pretty workable strategy. It would be nice to introduce a similar option in the crystal collection missions... have a defensive item that could be purchased fromm the Foreman.

    As numerous others have mentioned, these are really much more friendly to casters. Or, more specifically, they are more friendly to those with ranged capability. Being able to "run 'n' gun" is a key determiner in a lot of these missions, and so Arcanes and Artificers get a pretty big advantage. In the crystal collection missions, being able to clean up spawns with AoE also makes a big difference. I'm not sure much can be done about this without seriously changing the mechanics, though.

    Even though you didn't ask, as others have mentioned: the price is too high. I waited until its on sale. Another F2P friend I have who recently joined the game is getting my advice to target other packs -- she shouldn't spend all those TP on one pack when she could get 3 others instead.

    Overall, I give the content a solid B+, but the pack value a C-.
    The Brotherhood of BYOH--Thelanis: Charged, WF Artificer; Venomshade, Half-Elf Monk; Poxs, Fist of an Angry God; Crash, Pale Monkster

  14. #174

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    MadFloyd - I think the main problem with the popularity of the challenge quests is that we had the Crystal Cove return a half dozen times since it was released. And due to the very nature of festivals burnt the playerbase out on kobold collection quests. People remember running the Crystal Cove 100+ times to outfit their characters. It take a lot of effort to get players to put that aside so they can realize that the cannith challenges are a different creature.

    As for the challenges themselves:

    Overall:
    - I enjoy the challenge quests.

    - I remember when you guys added the Favored Soul class to DDO. The day the class became available a player could unlock it. It made me feel good about earning that favor. I wasn’t penalized for being a faithful customer. I wasn’t told to wait for 2 months for another update.
    The day I unlocked 150 cannith favor I felt like I spit in the eye of a DM that was acting like a ******. Encouraging me to think of you guys as a “****** DM” is not a good marketing strategy.
    If you ever intend to release another favor based class, make sure the favor is there on day 1.

    - Completing stars should always result in more ingredients.

    - The scaling for CR25 is absurd.


    Kobold Island specific:

    - Kobold Island: the Disruptor and Kobold Island: Short Cuts suffer from the problems of unrealistic star items. Orthon Lieutenants need to start spawning sooner. I shouldn’t have to buy requisitions from the DDO store to complete star objectives.

    - Kamakazi attacks on the shard extractors needs major adjustments. Anytime I take over 10% of your hit points you should be attacking me and not the thing that is doing no damage to you.

    - Bulls*** immunities are never fun. I can understand adding defensive buffs like deathward. But immunity to Jade Tomb for a flipping succubus? Way to marginalize PrEs that should be doing exceptionally well against those types of enemies.


    Dr. Rushmore quests:

    - Too many hit points/arbitrary immunities for trash mobs is lazy design. I am, of course, referring to fat rats and epic elementals.

    - Air Elemental tripping is too spammy. We should only have to save against it once every few seconds when our character and the air ele hit boxes collide. Your current setup works like so “I only fail on a 1. It’s too bad that I have to make 30 saving throws.”

    - Is there any way we could get better graphics for the phantasmal creatures? They can get really hard to track on a melee character. Especially when you get a group of em.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • NEW - Fix the flipping non-proficiency penalties for wildshape!
    • Redo the Favor rewards so there is a reason to do max favor again.
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
    • Task Lynnabel with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck.
    • Tiering the Runearms so that artificers aren’t screwed out of the advantages of Cannith Crafting in Epic levels on their signature item.
    • Finishing the enhancement tree passes (including racial PrE’s) before rolling out yet another DDOStore™ Enhancement Tree.

  15. #175
    Community Member somenewnoob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firewall View Post
    - I don't like quests where you have to do something in a predefined time window or where you have to defend or keep alive some stupid squishy NPC's. Coyle is hard enough to bare.
    Aye, this is what I said in my post earlier. The annoying mechanics: time window + protect npc.........2 things I hate!

    I am a big explorer type in most games I play, I like to peek into every nook and cranny, take my time.....you know......EXPLORE! And with the time limits and protection......not much time to actually ENJOY the challenges. But then again most of them are just lipstick on the cove event.....so there isn't much to see.

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by cforce View Post
    I've been reaaaally frustrated a couple of times in Rushmoor, on the other hand, when I've had a ton of crests, but because of random generation, was short on exactly one. This is exacerbated when soloing. I've gotten fairly decent at running this solo, and usually manage the ones that I need, but it's really, really frustrating when you've done a scorched-earth scouring of all corners/mobs/breakables in the servant's quarters, gallery, and entrance hall and are still, say, missing a monkey -- which of course is needed on both two-crest doors! My suggestion would be to reduce the number of different crests to 4.
    This, a million times, this.
    Kobeyashi | Hamada | Ying

  17. #177
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    I've seen it mentioned many times and just want to support it as well:
    Stars should trump everything when it comes to number of ingredients.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  18. #178
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    Please, no. Challenges are not an acceptable substitute for raiding content.
    The challenges already exist, so they wouldn't be substituted for anything. I don't see how flipping the "raid party on" switch for epic 25 challenges would have any effect on current or future raid content.
    I can currently handle epic 25, I'm sure you can as well, as can many other people, but it really is raid level difficulty. The methods used to complete these I consider a problem (kiting every named around without killing them, brining nothing but casters to AOE nuke all the trash, etc..) I dont imagine this was the intended way to run these, and rather then just nerfing everything so melees can contribute (and becomes trivial for casters), I'd rather we be given the correct party size/balance to actually handle the difficulty as it exists. If it was actually viable and rewarding to kill some of those 100k+ hp rares, we would see a lot more balanced parties.
    Thelanis Thylus Thelassir Kjeldorn Ingrisstohr Khaarnath Lyriah Byrron Grunzo Thylandras Kharandras Thylandar Mallachias Kharnofski Grunzar Thyax Kharnoth Ghallanda Lykanthar Kharnor Thelanar Kharnaxe Kharnoth
    Khyber Gimpo

  19. #179
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimkj View Post
    I don't see why you have made the distinction around gameplay so many times - every element of the game involves gameplay. Or do you mean "the combat system" or "quest design" or both? Or something else?
    I really just wanted to separate the style of gameplay from things like price of the pack and rewards (loot, XP, etc).


    Quote Originally Posted by slimkj View Post
    Generally speaking, I've said before one of things I don't really enjoy about them but here it is again with some other bits.

    • Defined goals with small incremental steps. I prefer the random chance as at least there's a chance of an early pull and beating the odds. Here there is no chance, only (usually too) small steps. For the longer challenges that can put potential time to acquire an item into a "not worth the sustained effort" category for me. Hence I've not run them much at all. I'm a gambler I guess.
    • Map size / back & forth design - some of them feel like blatant running timesinks.
    • Inflated HP of boss mobs - same supposed difficulty-increasing design I dislike wherever it features in game. It feels littered in a concentrated area in these though, perhaps because they are a smaller set of a subtype of gameplay. Slower =/= more challenging
    • Cove fatigue - some of them are just simply too much like Cove which, due to Point 1, I tired of very quickly. At least with cove you got something worth spending if you didn't complete or failed an objective though.
    • I think the concept of short burst activity over longer questing and being more solo-friendly is what I was expecting and found some of them longer than I can run most quests, for poor xp/min and loot that is too far in the distance to be enough carrot (see above)

    Some positives;

    • Short challenges are ideal whilst waiting for friends or if you have little time and can be soloed.
    • Rushmore's Mansion is nicely designed, apart from the size, and the wonderfully silly buffs can make it more variable (and hence more tolerable in repetition)

    That second list is shorter than I'd hoped, I like to try and be balanced most times. Sorry I really can't think of other positives now, but I'm sure there must be some. It's been some time since I ran them and of course negatives tend to stick with us better.

    In short, they tick too many of the staple MMO tricks boxes to be of interest to me even short-term. If I were not VIP I would not buy the pack, even if it were half the price. I tried them briefly because they were there.

    Not sure that's what you were after given the heavy hints at gameplay oriented feedback but as I don't really understand that frame of reference, it's what I've got.
    Excellent feedback - thanks.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  20. #180
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMDarkwolf View Post
    I wonder.. are these really discussions, or a random thread popped up just to appear 'as if we care'?

    Ive gone over the other 2 and this one and I think I saw a dev comment ONCE out of like 15bashillion pages.

    If its a discussion i think you should take part in it beyond the first 'tell me what u think' post.

    If you show some interest in your own thread/question, you may get MUCH more responses and a lot more helpful constructive advice/input.
    We have been active in the other threads, but keep in mind they are HUGE and we're outnumbered!
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

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