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  1. #481
    Community Member Infant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by era42 View Post
    True, but again only partly. Go right, check for purples. Yes? Mine and win. Otherwise go left, check for purples. Yes? Mine and win. If not, either wait for a couple of minutes and try again, or scramble and/or buy more time.
    I found the following to be a better approach:

    Check right (if there is a purple at the water, the spot has enough for quota). If empty, DON't go left -- too many drow, to much running. Instead go north. Look left, below at the bridge. If there is a bunch of purples below at the north part of bridge or at the south part (cavern entrance), ff there, check for circle. If not drop all the way to the lava river. Check spots n, e, w from underneath the bridge you dropped from. Worst case, if no purples+circles there, follow the lava to the west and hope for mining locations.

    Using this approach, rarely do I miss my quota. Unfortunately it only works really well if you have a DDoor (I run it on my bard) to be able to move quickly. But I can imagine one could work around it on a non-DDoor character.

    Infant

    When hunting for mats in this challenge, I never buy time.

  2. #482
    Hatchery Founder Glenalth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Infant View Post
    I found the following to be a better approach:

    Check right (if there is a purple at the water, the spot has enough for quota). If empty, DON't go left -- too many drow, to much running. Instead go north. Look left, below at the bridge. If there is a bunch of purples below at the north part of bridge or at the south part (cavern entrance), ff there, check for circle. If not drop all the way to the lava river. Check spots n, e, w from underneath the bridge you dropped from. Worst case, if no purples+circles there, follow the lava to the west and hope for mining locations.

    Using this approach, rarely do I miss my quota. Unfortunately it only works really well if you have a DDoor (I run it on my bard) to be able to move quickly. But I can imagine one could work around it on a non-DDoor character.

    Infant

    When hunting for mats in this challenge, I never buy time.
    I do this all the time on characters without Dimension Door. There are about 6 pad locations I check and if I can't throw down a teleporter near a good cluster I just recall out and head right back in. Otherwise I just use the teleporter to bounce between base and watching the suicidal reptiles.
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  3. #483
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    Can someone explain to me how the XP works for the Challenges?

    I ran a lvl 16 quest on my lvl 18 character, and got like 8k xp. I ran the same quest again and got 3k. I ran it again at lvl 17, and got 4k xp.

    I was hoping to go to lvl 19 just off the challenges but 3k per run isnt going to cut the mustard.

  4. #484
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePrincipal View Post
    Can someone explain to me how the XP works for the Challenges?

    I ran a lvl 16 quest on my lvl 18 character, and got like 8k xp. I ran the same quest again and got 3k. I ran it again at lvl 17, and got 4k xp.

    I was hoping to go to lvl 19 just off the challenges but 3k per run isnt going to cut the mustard.
    You get bonus xp for completing star objectives, but only the first time you get that particular objective.

  5. #485
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePrincipal View Post
    Can someone explain to me how the XP works for the Challenges?

    I ran a lvl 16 quest on my lvl 18 character, and got like 8k xp. I ran the same quest again and got 3k. I ran it again at lvl 17, and got 4k xp.

    I was hoping to go to lvl 19 just off the challenges but 3k per run isnt going to cut the mustard.
    How it works is spelled out in a really neat thread by MrCow (do a search for his posts).

    In very short form though it works like this...

    You get a first time bonus for getting star X (one per star). This is the big XP from the challenges.

    You also get a repeat bonus for getting star X (one per star) if you have already gotten that many stars which is less then the first time bonuses.

    So if you get 3 stars the first time you do a challenge you get three first time bonuses one for each star. You do it again and 4 star it and you get repeat bonuses for stars 1/2/3 and a first time bonus for star 4. The game does not care what objective you completed to get those stars only the total number of stars.
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  6. #486
    Community Member Deathdefy's Avatar
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    Yep what Cyr said.

    There's also no bonus in xp for being under-level, but there is an xp penalty for every level you are over. Including being just 1 over I think (unlike quests).
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  7. #487
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathdefy View Post
    Including being just 1 over I think (unlike quests).
    Reason for this is you can control what level you do the challenge at (unlike quests).
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Reason for this is you can control what level you do the challenge at (unlike quests).
    It is still a 'double-standard' tho.

    But many of us have said (repeatedly) that we would prefer it if the challenges had the c/n/h/e settings of normal quests.


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  9. #489
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrkGrismer View Post
    It is still a 'double-standard' tho.

    But many of us have said (repeatedly) that we would prefer it if the challenges had the c/n/h/e settings of normal quests.
    I would very much dislike this option.

    The scaling difficulty effectively gives c/n/h/e difficulties for ANY level party. Party of level 9s? 8 is C, 9 is N, 10 is H, 11 is E. No need to peg each challenge at a certain level like, say, litany is 14/15/16/17 on c/n/h/e.

    This makes the challenge quests doable at a huge range of levels, unlike most quests which are only really doable at 1-2 levels...say von3-TRs generally farm it at level 10 (normal) or 11 (hard) after the first elite bravery run. 9 is too early, 12 means no bravery and having to farm it on elite for no penalty.

    The scaling challenges means that they are always an xp option.

    Overall, the challenges have grown on me.

    I like the "zerg or fail" timed aspect of them. Most quests are beatable if done slowly with little risk...often challenges pay off risk takers big time.

    I like the boss fights generally. There have been a few times in the mansion where I got a boss with just seconds to spare (2seconds actually). That is exciting!

    Few quests provide that kind of open ended challenge. Most epics are pretty easy. Most raids are pretty easy for geared characters, too. But the challenges are totally different and require different strategies. I like that.



    But I still hate kobold island, particularly solo.

  10. #490
    Hatchery Founder Tamerlane's Avatar
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    the general mechanics of challenges requires that you complete multiple tasks within a very shot time frame. as a result of this small groups and some builds have a very difficult time completing challenges.

    small groups cant be in enough locations at the same time to avoid running back and forth and burning time that cant be used to complete goals.

    any build that doesn't focus on dps will take longer in each fight leading to less clock to complete goals.

    most challenges benefit from splitting up in order to accomplish tasks more time efficiently, as a result, any non-self-healing character will become a liability.

    because of this, the best way to approach most challenges is with a group of self-healing dps solo builds. not everyone builds their character that way and challenges are difficult at best for most other players
    if you choose to play scissors, and rock kicks your @$$, dont whine like a punk.

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  11. #491
    Hero JOTMON's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    This topic should prove interesting.

    As you all know, U12 saw the release of a new type of content - Challenges.

    I would like to get your thoughts on these - preferably in a constructive manner. I’m specifically interested in gameplay feedback.

    For those who do not enjoy this type of gameplay, can you elaborate on why?

    For those of you who do enjoy playing them, what aspects do you enjoy?

    General feedback is encouraged, but again, please limit feedback to gameplay and respect other’s opinions. I expect this to be a very polarizing subject.

    Thanks in advance.

    The challenges as a whole is a different feel, it is more of a zerg zerg mentality because you are on the clock to finish as opposed to the quest dungeon crawl.

    I like it as a change to the regular stuff, but it is different from the current quest system. There is no opportunity for exploring optionals, afk for real life interruptions, work out details for specific obsticles figure out puzzles instead of using some third party cheat because you are on the clock or even stop and smash the breakables/pick the collectibles type of questing. There is continuity in the challenges.. no story line or flow.


    Have to say I enjoy the ingredient mechanism of the challenges where you collect ingredients upon completion of the run and turn them in to craft loot and epic loot.
    I prefer this to the random grind and /roll for loot in the chest hoping someone isnt taking a BTC item to TR, leaves it in the chest for the wrong person because someone dropped group while selecting the person to pass to.
    Finding BTC loot that is of no use to the character you switched to because they didnt have a healer in the party while your melee that you switched from still needs the item.

    The challenge system offers the ability to gather BTA ingredients and/or craft BTA items, you know with this system it is just a matter of time before you get enough ingredients to craft what you want for the character you want.

    I would like to see this crafting system pushed out for all future loot systems. You can also leave the occasional chest drop completed item for the ooh.ahh factor.


    My favorite quest chains for playability are the VON's and used to include Gianthold, Twilight Forge and Abbott.

    Unfortunately Twilight Forge the loot drops were dropped so low and the pillars were unreliable equalling instant failure forcing a 1 hour rerun of the first part which typically killed the party you had put together to run it. Removing the ability to prep and corridor heal the rest of the party and the low drop rate killed that entire pack (separate part 1 and 2 and you may re-invigorate that chain, changing this to the challanges ingredient system would work too).

    Abott changes are frustrating eite with 3x more HP disintigrate avoidance, Tile issues etc... and again the nerf to the loot instead of making better elite loot.. the nerfing of existing loot and then eliting the new crappy loot to the old base loot while making the quest less playable for the general payerbase was a bad move. Turned this chain into another not recommended pack. Uber TR's struggle, at level parties.. forget it..

    Reaver changes to do 500 point disintigates and instakill pretty much any at level party member on a failed save, Pumped up Air ellies.. reduced loot drops... I was still waiting for Epic Gianthold .. more Epic Dragons... until I saw some of the crappy loot shown in Lamannia.

    are you seeing a theme here.. nerfing named items and lower drop rates=more quest hate....


    The ingredient end reward system could also be expanded in existing quests to be increased by the ingenious completion of traps, breaking of breakables, and kill count. this would be a good balance to the invis and run to the end kill the boss and get 100 ingredients, or kill and break everything to the end and get 1000 ingredients.

    Get rid of the stupid existing dungeon Alert system it was a bad temporary fix.

    Balancing level to quest reward makes sense with the ingredint drop rate adjustment level 20's from zerging level 1 quests for same amount of ingredients.



    In summary...
    Cannith Challenges .. good enough, it has its place... but I dont want all future quests done this way.
    Cannith Ingredient loot crafting system.. Good. push this system out to all future loot systems.
    Level 1-25 range = good..sort of.. tough on mixed party ranges..
    Nerfing existing loot=bad
    Making level 16 quests challenging for Level 20 TR's with epic gear=bad
    Last edited by JOTMON; 04-17-2012 at 03:02 PM.
    Jotmon -
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    and several once viable raiding alts dumped into the packmule stables..

    Update 24: Champions... "whew, it's ok, it's only a red name" .. sad day when trash spawn Champions and their one-shot ignore fort attacks instill more party fear than the Red named bosses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Too bad I 'purchased' maximum character slots for my account, SSG has now chosen to cater the giveaway perks to benefit multiple freebie accounts instead of the paying customers.

  12. #492

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    First Impression
    Challenges have been released. It's like a kind of Crystal Cove you can play all year round.

    Second Impression
    OH MY GOD! We get to fight the Yugoloth!?

    I really like Challenges.

    The PRO's:
    1.) The Loot
    I really like the flavor & lore of the loot. Specifically the Mournlode weapons and armors. While I would have preferred Holy Burst over Greater Undead Bane, I am still enchanted with my mournlode weapons. Having a sword made out of precious crystal is so romantic. It makes me feel rich. Plus it's amazing to have a martial weapon with light effects, I've been wanting one ever since the Mabar Handwraps came out.
    I also like the Calomel weapons for the same lore reasons, but unfortunately there are no options for a Calomel weapon my main would actually use at this time.
    The Ring of the Stalker makes me drool. Invisible Stalkers need more love, so it's nice to see them shine. It would be fun if there was a red-named Invisible Stalker lurking in one of the challenges as an optional. Right now the only ones in the Game are in Necro 2 (afaik).

    2.) The Enemies
    I love fighting the Yugoloth. It's nice to see another Hag in the game outside of the Drooam chain, that graphic is too good to not be used. It's also nice to see another Dragon.
    The Bosses in Dr. Rushmore's Mansion really do give the impression that this is a band of outlaws that hang out, steal, and party together. I would only prefer that Dr. Rushmore's Girlfriend was an elf or a drow as opposed to a Succubus, but that's just me. It would add to the illusion that this is a group of players similar to one might find hanging out in stormreach.

    3.) Variety
    To me, the most exciting aspect of Challenges was that it feels like I get to play a different video game with my DDO Character. I get this feeling the most while playing Dr. Rushmore, and I like it. I put all this work into building my character and it is a nice change of pace to play her in different ways.


    and now. . .


    The CON's:

    1.) Kobold Island
    -My least favorite challenges are the ones which take place on Kobold Island. The other three challenges all
    make sense, but Kobold Island is a little hodge-podgey. Sometimes the Island is being attacked by the restless dead, other times its attacked by Devils, and there's a "Benevolent Lantern Archon" who helps you by dropping dragonshards. Why? Why is the Archon dropping Dragonshards? Wouldn't she have better things to do? Why is the island only haunted some times but not others? Wouldn't the undead bother the Devils too much and prevent an invasion, and why do the Devils care about mining dragonshards anyway?
    -The Disruptor is not fun. He's hard to find, based on chance, and can cause failure without any form of prevention if the player is unlucky. I enjoy employing luck as a factor when designing games, but this time it feels more like punishment.
    -The Crate-Buffs are too randomly placed to really be beneficial, and while those buffs are useful in Dr. Rushmore's Mansion, on the Island they are usually so far away from the action that they don't provide any real benefit. It would be better if the Crates contained dragonshards or added time to the clock, then I might go out of my way to find them, as is I just ignore them.

    2.) Dungeon Scaling
    As others have mentioned, the difficulty scaling present in the challenges is out of whack. The difficulty increases too much when you are in a party, or have a hireling, especially on the higher CR dungeons. This tends to make me think that the Challenges were designed to be solo-ed, but some of the challenges are just not solo-able, at least not to me. Namely the Disruptor, Kobold Chaos, and Picture Portals.

    3.) Lack of Variety
    Variety was one of the PRO's, but in terms of actual game design there is little variety in the challenges. Lava Caves and Extraplanar Mining are basically identical just with different environments and mobs; and each Challenge Pack is just four variations on the same quest.



    In Conclusion

    As a whole, I enjoy Challenges. They are a nice change of pace from the main game and are akin to running a Wilderness Area for exp and loot. They provide nice named treasure that is worth obtaining, and other turn ins which are desirable (exp and renown potions, epic tokens). It is interesting and fun to fight enemies we don't normally get to see, but the repetitive mechanics of some of the challenges make them uninteresting fairly quickly.

    Please, no more mining kobolds in the future - But more weapons and armors with interesting effects!

  13. #493
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    Default Not my cup of tea.

    Not going to knock them. They seem well done and many people enjoy them. I've had no positive experience in there though. Again, just me and I'm not saying they're bad.
    I'm unhappy that unlocking the artificer is tied to it.

  14. #494
    Community Member ThePrincipal's Avatar
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    I like it. I usually solo the lvl 16-18 challenges for both xp, ingreds, and also... gasp... the challenge.

    The only epic items I have are from the events and challenges. I prefer this style of crafting as well - simple ingrediants with a turn in box. I gave up on my advanced degree in shroudology a long time ago.
    Last edited by ThePrincipal; 05-02-2012 at 06:39 PM.

  15. #495
    Community Member KanedaEX's Avatar
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    Challenges are kinda fun, but the cost is right now prohibitive.
    Second main issue, the mechanics real punish everyone if one of the pieces is unskilled, thats not really great for pugs

  16. #496
    Community Member Phemt81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalfOrcBeautyQueen View Post
    I really like Challenges.

    The PRO's:
    The Loot
    Variety

    The CON's:
    Kobold Island
    Dungeon Scaling
    Lack of Variety
    This^

    Best challenge: Dr. rushmore moving target
    Worst: Kobold island (all three)

    Suggestions: tune down A LOT dungeon scaling, or get totally rid of party difficulty scaling. You always need to run them at 3-4 levels under yours (on a TR...). Some challenges like kobold island are just insanely unbalanced, frustrating and no no fun, seriously do not waste such nice ideas thrown here and there.

    Note: need to visit the lava challenges yet.
    Last edited by Phemt81; 05-02-2012 at 06:56 PM.
    How to revamp past life reward system <--- working again
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    We absolutely planned for Fighter to still have Haste Boost. It's absolutely a bug. Any similar issues that look "wrong" to any player should be bugged.
    Developers should fix this

  17. #497
    Community Member Barium's Avatar
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    Default Epic Rushmore's Mansion

    I'm curious if the OLD epic ward was intentional for these challenges? Thought that stuff was disabled long ago. On mobs that are 'phantasmal' and immune to holds etc already, the epic ward is really over the top. Is this WAI?

    P.S.- Suggestion: Increase the threshhold slightly on the Dungeon Alert. Spawning/Respawning monsters at the rate of something like picture portals adding in Yellow, Orange, and even Red dungeon alert is a bit stiff in a quest that includes a strict time limit as well as monsters with seriously bloated HP.
    Last edited by Barium; 05-03-2012 at 11:48 AM. Reason: Added PostScript
    I have not yet begun, to defile myself.

  18. #498
    The Hatchery Habreno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barium View Post
    I'm curious if the OLD epic ward was intentional for these challenges? Thought that stuff was disabled long ago. On mobs that are 'phantasmal' and immune to holds etc already, the epic ward is really over the top. Is this WAI?
    Believe that Epic Ward was indeed WAI, both in challenges and Cove.



    In as far as my comments.


    Interesting, but for the wrong reasons.

    1) Recently, I've noticed a LOT of good AC pieces of gear coming from non-quests. Cove Plate ties for best AC armor, Bracers of Wind get Dodge, air guard, blurry, and can get more Dodge crafted on. Epic Swashbuckler is fairly nice for shield, more of a space-saving one, consolidating Insight +4 and Shield AC on one piece (with a very nice secondary +4 insight to saves), but that's all from non quests. Seriously, why is some of the best gear for a particular task out of a non-quest?

    2) Epic Tokens. OP. To be able to just farm a couple hours and slot a 30-token augment is just wrong. EDA is 2 tokens in 30 minutes, on a good run. That's a token every 15 minutes, BUT, has a timer of 16 HOURS. Challenges have no timer, and some even beat the token every 15 minutes EDA has.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLegendOfAra View Post
    Welcome to Argo, where our end game players are constantly striving for new and exciting ways to make themselves more gimp, and continually working towards progressively more pointless goals.
    BYOH. Know it, abide by it, or don't mess with those who do.

  19. #499
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    I enjoy CC when it's around, for a while. Then I get really, really tired of the grind, and quit bothering. Same thing for the challenges. Same thing for any quest that I have to run over and over and over and over and over for ingredients. But I won't suggest getting rid of the grind, because I guess that's just not how things work in MMOs.

    I would suggest reducing the amounts you need by 50%. Without changing the amount you can get in a run BTW. You do that, and I guarantee I'll run more challenges on more characters in order to build more cool things. But I play the game to have fun and interact with cool people. The long grind is not fun, and is not a good use of my play time.

    Cut the time I have to grind in half, I'll run it more, build more, and TR more (which in my case means money since I"m currently not willing to work at grinding for a heart).

  20. #500
    The Hatchery MRMechMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habreno View Post
    Seriously, why is some of the best gear for a particular task out of a non-quest?
    Why is that a problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Habreno View Post
    2) Epic Tokens. OP. To be able to just farm a couple hours and slot a 30-token augment is just wrong.
    Why is that wrong?

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