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  1. #281
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnsfire View Post
    I'm probably not the type you want to hear from. I avoided challenges like the plague but perhaps the reasons why I did might be useful. . .

    1) I avoid timed content if I can. The first few times I run a quest I like to loiter and take things in. I don't like to be rushed through stuff.

    2) It is way too tied to the Crystal Cove event. I mess around on the island when the event rolls around but I detest babysitting the Kobolds. It never felt D&D to me, it felt like a Facebook game.

    3) It doesn't feel like it has a serious goal. It doesn't seem like it advances an actual serious plot line. It is just learn it so you can farm stuff. It has a 'hurry through this so you can gather stuff' feel that doesn't appeal to me.

    I get that I am probably not the type that this is meant to appeal but is I had to sum it up in one word it would be too gimmicky. Good luck with feedback from people that actually play them though. Hopefully you can improve them a bit for those people
    On the contrary, we do want to hear from you and this is excellent feedback. Thanks.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  2. #282
    Community Member sephiroth1084's Avatar
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    So, I haven't played much of the challenges up until now, but I've just done a few of them on my lvl 17 TR to get some XP. He's taking a one-and-down approach to all quests on his way to the level cap, and there is woefully little XP at level 15.

    In the crystal-mining challenges, I feel like it's difficult to get a sense of what's going on if you're in a group. With the lowish timer for the area, people tend to run off and start scouting/looking for stuff, and leave those who don't know what the deal is at the start to defend the line. I was used to that a little with Crystal Cove, but it gets a little dull standing around and waiting for something to happen.

    The emphasis on splitting up would be okay with me if the challenges didn't place such a heavy burden on players being self-sufficient. I've had a few failures in challenges because we had a couple of people that couldn't handle being alone with tough monsters for a minute, and when one or two people die from that, even the strong, self-sufficient characters tend to buckle under the stacked pressure as well.

    On runs that fail, there is very little to no silver lining. There are no chests, so you can't say that you at least got some loot. The XP for optionals seems to only get applied to the completion XP, so you don't get much there either it seems.

    I did a Picture Portals run that failed after about 25 minutes, and felt pretty ****** for doing so. One player had separated from the group to try and pick up star objectives while we went after the main objective and died. Two players, including the person that knew the quest best went back to recover his stone, and they died. The rest of us were left trying to navigate based on the leader's dictation, and we just spent 10 minutes running around trying to find the first boss. There was nothing to indicate, as far as I could tell, where to go, all the stairwells down, and half the hallways all look the same, and it felt really crappy to fail the quest because I just didn't know which way to go and couldn't find it in 6+ minutes of searching with 2 other people. There are very few quests in DDO that have that kind of failure condition (where not finding your way can result in a failed quest), and they all have indications about where to go and what's going on.


    I also did a few runs on my capped, super-geared wizard with some groups of epic level challenges, and was rather frustrated that everything was immune to insta-kills, and that a lot of it (all?) seemed to have Death Ward, meaning I couldn't use any of the tools from Pale Master for big sections of the quests. It felt even more annoying than when epic monsters were immune to death spells.
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  3. #283
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbqzor View Post
    As before, answering the questions in an itemized format.



    At the risk of coming across as unruly, here is the rather large list of things I do not enjoy about them.

    - They're Timed. This makes it very hard to play them in some of the more common mmo situations. Need afk to bio? Can't, timed. Coffee burning or stove beeping or cooking situation need attention? Tough, timed. Kid needs you a second? Well, there goes your progress, timed. The timed nature of these is somewhat necessary by their format, however its also one of their own worst enemies. Either these need to be kept very short (like 10, maybe 15 minutes tops; none of those 30-40 minute rushmore ones) where you could plausibly time those things outside them for the most part. Or, they need to be rethought to avoid, or provide alternatives for, any timers in future ones.

    - Horrible Scaling. This makes it non-group friendly. By which I mean, I have 5 star'd about half of them solo or duo, including some on epic. It would be much more difficult to do that in a full group, simply because the mobs scale up so amazingly much. This is largely due to their hp scaling, specifically. It simply makes it take longer to do anything, which results in it going slower, which again works against the timed nature of things. They need to scale a lot less, especially in the mob hp department. As someone with over 160 cannith favor and tons of parts I assure you I'm not asking for the change out of an inability or unease with attaining the rewards. Its just not fun to tell people no, I don't want to group with you, you would be dead weight because of how Turbine coded it. While adding someone always bears the risk of them slowing you down with sub-par play, here it slows you down regardless of what they do... and that's not really much fun. (note, I consider hirelings not scaling it to be a wise choice, as it avoids punishing which classes you bring to a large extent; something that cannot be said of many places).

    - Drastically Different Payouts. Some of them pay out well for your time, some of them decidedly do not. And, sadly, most of the fun ones (for me and my regulars anyhow) are the good payout ones. Why is this sad? Because I have to do the most reps, of the least fun missions. Getting the first chunk of ingredients wasn't so bad... but finishing up the rest feels like a horrible grind because I know when I log on for it that I'll be facing the same thing I don't like over and over. The trading hand ins to covert parts helps somewhat, but in the end its still (in most cases) shorter to do the mission you need (which I think it should be or the trade option would be too good), and for people with limited playtime it somewhat forces their hand into the quickest, not most fun, option. Consider taking some of the more popular or better paying ones, and trying to bring up some of the crappy payout ones up a bit. One of the castle missions (if I recall correctly) was paying something like 60% of the farmed amount on a run where the mission was higher level than the group... is that really necessary? In general, getting like 200-250 parts from there, when some other missions pay out like 350-450 is kind of disheartening, to say the least. Let alone some of the gravy ones which can go even higher. Requiring repeats for totally abstract reasons is not popular with me, heh.

    - Unique Objectives Cause Unique Problems. I'm looking at you, Kobold Island. While defending things isn't new to DDO, defending them all over a whole zone largely is, rather than in a smaller area where you can combine arms. And, there can be more spots to defend than you can have people. This creates a situation where you really need several self-sufficient people to try and cover as much ground as consistently as possible, which caters to building very specific groups. To top it off, when defending only certain attacks/abilities are generally useful (depending on mob type, and the speed with which you need to control small groups of mobs) and combined you've rather alienated a large number of builds. The complaint here, as it were, is to maybe lighten up on some of the pressure. Maybe allow us to turn off a small extractor after a large is turned on, or spend shards on a 5 minute extractor cloaking in addition to turrets, or something. But you can't add a relatively specific group building requirement, and then make it a relatively general ingredient requirement, and not expect it to rub folks the wrong way.

    - "Required" DDO Store Items. Yes, okay, I could farm for hundreds of missions and maybe enough would drop to not have to use the store. But practically speaking, if you want to gold star some of them (again, looking at you Kobold Island), you need to use the store. This is just unnecessary and insulting. Again, there's more than enough favor without doing those ones, and you can get ingredients without getting all the stars, so its not an issue of being forced to buy anything. But, it is something you cannot practically complete, without buying anything, and personally I feel nothing in the game should be beatable only by paying to do so. As the only thing its preventing is a 'completionist' feeling, whats the harm of fixing the requirements to allow this. If the argument over there is, well they drop so you could save enough up... well your drop rates may need to be adjusted. And also, you might consider making them mission specific if they're not already. I honestly didn't pay super close attention to what dropped where, but knowing that if I want a skeleton crest I can at least limit it to missions using crests, that's a way to feel like I'm working towards the right direction.

    - The Chests. Boy do I hate them. They can spawn in a full inventory and delete something, that right there is a problem. And I can't avoid looting junk like arrows if I want to, so I have to spend extra clicks destroying or selling them. And they do not drop renown, which can be more valuable than vendor loot to some people. And they all require killing, every single one I can think of. No more stealth runs for rogues, or open locks, or optional objective spawns, etc. This is so unfortunate for the game. I know why: because they're timed, and because generally it wouldn't be good if people could blitz open them and recall out, nor would it be good if they ransacked after a few runs given the number of reps you have to do here. But for heaven's sake that doesn't mean they have to be sub par. Let chests of the same CR stack, that cuts down on the inventory slots taken. Stop them from deleting stuff when full and let it go into overflow, same as festival cookies or something (and cookies also stack, like chests should). Put renown in the chests so you don't have to look elsewhere to pay your daily decay before coming to house C. Maybe add a few (clam style so don't ransack) behind locked doors, or after talking and taking a non-combat resolution. Just put some work in on them.



    And now, the smaller list of what I enjoy.

    - Solo/Duo-ability. Yes, I just said above I dislike that its less advantageous to group. However, I also like that it is something I can log in and solo when no ones on, when I'm not feeling sociable, when I'm waiting on a raid to finish to catch the next one, when I'm timer-ed out on whatever's in the lfm, etc. Whatever is done to address the grouping issues above, maintaining the ability to solo and duo these is important. I would not want to see missions with objectives that required hitting 4 switches at once, or some other nonsense, where it was specifically designed to 'hurt' the solo player. I know you're not sitting there in your leather armchairs planning how to hurt people while sipping brandy and laughing maniacally (well, not Madfloyd anyhow) but when I see design like that, that's how it feels.

    - Diverse Gameplay. Well, diverse relative to other missions/quests anyhow. I would like to see that maintained in the future, with the next ones perhaps ignoring kobolds, torches, extractors, pictures, and generally anything the heck having to do with the current set. Maybe one where you kill mobs and loot keys and open doors and facilitate a jailbreak of captured adventurers who help you as you unlock them (kinda like New Invasion or CO6 combined with Wrath of Flame post succubi in the middle combined with the fluff of Ghola Fan), so by the end you are leading a train of like 30 npcs you can buff up with bard songs and laugh when they all fall over to cometfall at once. But whatever you do, dont make defending them required. Let us send some npcs to their deaths for once... they're adventurers, they knew the risks. Freedom or Death! Anyhow its just one idea (which you are free to use) just don't give us more of the same in the next batch. I am tired of kobolds... its dungeons and dragons not dungeons and cute kobolds following torches (I mean stat wise they even have darkvision not scent, come on).

    - Partly, the XP. Do not misunderstand me, the xp in here is generally poor. However, the 'first time' bonus parallel of unlocking the stars is great and fun. In other words, these missions pay off more the first time relative to others, and less on repeats relative to others. That is a model I am inclined to say is a good idea. I would like for content to be higher on rewards the first run, so that it is a game of diverse playing with changing story, and not a game of Shroud #500 hoooooo. I understand some repetition will always be needed... but consider keeping it at least as low as it is now, possibly lower. Its not too far worse than anything else, but its creeping up there. If anything, go lower, maintaining this level of reps for future items is going to be a bit much, imo.

    - Item Rewards. Not to be confused with liking the items, I think the stats could definitely use some work (as usual, some clear winners, some losers, and some what were they thinkings... by this point players can pretty readily look at an item and call a spade a spade, the item devs should sure be able to do the same). However, not needing to run a ton of runs waiting for the last piece to drop has an appeal. And being able to choose tokens or loot, lets people cater to farming what they want to farm, and to both get some advancement in whatever adventures folks need. In other words, it saves 'I need an item out of quest A, and you need one out of quest B, so lets run both and half the time maybe I get something'. This is why, I assume, that the reps required was aimed high... since while it takes a tad more work, the payout is guaranteed. While the format of rewards (flexible so accommodating to different build's item goals, and more slanted towards time in rather than luck) is good, I again hope the items themselves and the reps required are examined.

    I am sure there's more I'm forgetting, but this is a monster post as it is so I'll leave it at that for now. Thanks for the chance to offer feedback, cheers.
    Thank you for your monstrously constructive post. Incidentally, we were squirmish about giving out too much XP for repeated runs of challenges because they do NOT ransack or diminish like regular quests.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  4. #284
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocBenway View Post
    I haven't read the whole thread so I'll likely be parroting some common concerns.

    First off I'll preface this by saying I do not own the pack but do challenges, via daily token hoarding, on a regular basis with characters at levels from 4 to 20. I find them fun and there are very nice items to be acquired.

    Now the meat, Pricing:
    Way out of whack. The one sale was still overpriced, in my opinion. I mean if you take 30% of the letters away from "Way Too Much" you still end up with "Too Much".

    Next, Pay to Win:
    Having objectives that are only possible through DDO Store purchases is what leads to marketing departments being the ones "first against the wall when the revolution comes." I will grant that the items required also drop randomly within random challenges themselves, but at the rate that I have seen turret requisitions it will take a full year of 20 challenges a day to get enough to try and 5/gold star The Disruptor one time, then I'd still need to be everywhere at once right from the start.

    Next, Scaling:
    Brutal. If I do these with more than 2 friends, I shouldn't have (what feels like) 3000% increase in spawns and their hit points.

    Lastly (for now, it's late and I'm tired) Nonsensical lvl8 items:
    I've already asked about this in the Quests and Challenges forum, to no avail:

    You can get ingredients for lvl4 challenge items at lvl4

    You can get ingredients for lvl8 challenge items at lvl12, lvl10 if you trade for mephit wings.

    You can get ingredients for lvl12 challenge items at lvl12, lvl10 if you trade for mephit wings.

    You can get ingredients for lvl16 challenge items at lvl15.

    You can get ingredients for lvl20 challenge items at lvl15.

    ^^ What's wrong with that picture?
    Thanks. I'm happy that you were able to regularly play the challenges via the daily tokens.

    I haven't seen the post you mentioned and I am aware of at least one situation that was recently remedied for an upcoming patch.
    The kobold cannot be marked as junk because it cannot be sold. You can destroy it by dragging and dropping it outside your inventory.

  5. #285
    Community Member Hakushi's Avatar
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    From my experience, some of the challenges are fun, some less.

    As some stated, Air Elementals in their current format dosn't add any fun factor to these, but rather an annoying even frustrating experience. The whole Knockdown mechanic in DDO needs to be reviewed, but that's another subject.

    The Kobold Island challenges. While I like the idea behind these, The fact that's it's impossible or almost impossible to get more than 3 stars on Disruptor and Short Cuts needs to be reviewed. Getting Stars should give better reward than what it currently is (100 or 50 extra shards when you get a Star objective maybe?). Also even Kobold Chaos is far from easy to get stars on the highest difficulty setting, and this is supposed to only be lvl 15, why some epic quests seems much easier.

    Some example, in The Disruptor, you have to keep the giant alive for 5 minutes and the giant can spawn when there's less than 5 minutes left in the challenge making it impossible to complete. The respawn rate for most mobs is way too fast, and the number of them creates lag. The time for these is way too short for the objectives or the objectives are way too hard for the time we have, I won't even talk about Orthons.

    Also, I don't consider buying things with real money from the DDO Store an option to help in challenges, if it's the only way to get more stars, I consider that challenge as impossible. I prefer not give my opinion on this because it wouldn't be nice but let's just say it's a VERY BAD idea.

    Kobolds in these challenges, unlike the ones in Crystal Cove, seems so squishy, they have very little hps and die quickly. Also, lava and tar easily available to walk on and kobolds don't always go very well, they tend to walk on lava or tar, and stand there doing nothing and slowly die. Also, the teleporters in Lava Caves, they seem to regularly gang up on teleporters and become unresponsive.

    The favor we get from the challenges seems bugged, when reaching a 100 threshold, we're not getting the mail and 25 DDO Store Turbine points we're upposed to.

    Another thing, Requisitions/Kobold Gems/Skeleton Keys, Why all these have to be BtC, could they be BtA instead to prevent them clutter inventory, or at least they could fit in a bag. If you can't let them fit in one of the current barg, create a new Challenge Bag and we can place those items in that special bag. Let that bag sold at the Challenges vendor for something like 600 Challenge ingredients of any kind or more.

    Also, challenge tokens? I don't even bother with these since I'm vip and they clutter my inventory.

    Overall, not a bad idea, they add a diffent kind of playstyle to DDO which isn't a bad idea, but the difficulty needs to be reviewed.

    -Edit- I also forgot a point, the complete lack of reknown besides the small portion you get killing monsters is an incentive to run these less often. If I'm giving too much time for those, I have the feeling I'm nerfing my guild and this isn't a good thing.
    Last edited by Hakushi; 01-13-2012 at 03:27 PM.
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  6. #286
    Community Member Narishka's Avatar
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    First of all - I like the challenges (my route to affection: see below )

    General gameplay
    • I like the timer and think that the timers are necessary for the kind of the challenges atm. because come on folks, everything would be achievable if there was no timer and remember it called challenge not quest and in my opinion most "challenges" encountered in real life also involve time pressure, comparison to other people (who is better). Nothing is a challenge in my eyes that has no limiting factors. For this style of gameplay we have what's called "quest". I'm not saying that every challenge must have a timer, but if new challenges are without a timer, they probably have something else people will complain about because this something is definitely not the sort of chill out at the beach and get a chest with "named" loot
    • I like the trade in ingredients system. It's easy. You can get the ingredients in an appropriate time frame. You can be certain if you achieve the 1st star objective that you will be rewarded. I don't understand most of the complaints as some people seem to run quest X 20, 40, 60 + times and don't get their desired item. Or running shroud, you have a limited chance of random ingredients per run - challenges: you can run them as often as you like and get as many ingredients of your choice as an end reward. Besides the craftable stuff you can even make epic dungeon token (weeeeeeh) or low XP elixiers (etc. but these interest me most).
    • I like that you can solo/duo most/all of them, I understand that some people don't like some "boring" roles so an idea (below) is that some new challenges are maybe more in the fashion: Stick together team ;D


    Lava caves (my favorite together with Dr. Rushmores magnificient mansion)

    • I like that the position of crystal fields, teleport circles, crests, fire giant vary. You always have to scout around to achieve the best outcome
    • I just like the area All the floors and general makeup of the setting is nice and leads to exploration of the area
    • I like that e.g. progenitor crystals and the giant camp is always at the same location, would have been maybe too difficult if the whole dungeon would vary (e.g. New Invasion)
    • I dislike the red named Cloud giant for purposes that were stated: seems that you can't intim or get his aggro to pull him away
    • I'm a bit confused about the security ward crests, used them once to try them out but it seemed that the mobs were spawning nevertheless, WAI?
    • Invisible / deathwarded monsters (animals lions, wolves, scorpions) are annoying


    Dr. Rushmores
    • I like the general concept of the Rushmore quests
    • Behind the door is easy to do and will certainly give new players an idea what to expect in moving targets and picture portals, at least you can get the general map concept
    • 1st star objective is well chosen because you have always the option to do one of the 2 bosses that isn't guarded by elementals first and receive an reward! And I think it is not bad that you'll have to figure this out and as a next step figure out about the elemental guards: what does which elemental do/ what to expect of boss X
    • It never gets boring because of the timer and random crests, sometimes you just have bad luck because of that, but that happens and the quests have been 5 starred
    • I like Moving targets best because it's for me just fun to play and I like that the bosses are moving around, never to know where they are heading next


    Kobold island (I like this one least of all)
    • I don't like killing the kobolds there That just makes me sad ^^) In the other two (Extraplanar and Lava Caves) we defend the little ugly ahem nice little creatures and they "work" for us and then we have to kill them for their shiny metal pieces they looove soooo much (oh their cries and Oh No's and not agains always break my heart ^^) Can't we kill something nasty instead? ^^
    • At some point, I want to achieve the maximum/best there is in the challenge (5 stars) and it's disappointing if that is just not possible (Kill 25 orthons, I also never saw an island djinn ^^) or you are forced to buy something in the DDO store only to "win" (Turetts) or if a goal is set that interferes with your general score (and ings in the end) like keep the disruptor 5 minutes alive


    Ideas
    • The challenges atm. force the party to split up. An implementation of group friendly challenges that can only be achieved when the group is working together / team challenges would be nice
    • That would open the possibility maybe also to have a variation of "single" group challenges and two or multi group challenges where 2 or maybe even more teams would try to beat each other (no pvp but maybe things were they can "sabotage" the other group or so, of course there should be an reward for all participating groups - no reward - no fun
    • Finish out button for challenges and immediately get the reward (especially Behind the Door leads mostly to very long waiting times)
    • Remove deathward from animal types of monster
    • Fix the cloud giant in Lava Caves that it can be aggro'd
    • Fix challenge goals that are atm not achievable or only achievable via store purchase or ruining the best outcome, that ruins the fun


    My way to affection for the challenges
    I was very excited about the challenges and after 2 or 3 runs with the free tokens (I think it was kobold chaos) a friend and me decided to buy the pack because we didn't want to stop figuring a strategy out
    At first, it seemed nearly impossible. We tried out Colossal Crystals next. For having a look at the quest, we chose a lower level. My first thought as we walked around was : WOW it's sooooooo huge...I'll never find my way through here - although I really liked the map itself because it was so complex. Well in the end, we gave up because we didn't know HOW we should ever reach that big crystal and went for a lot of time along and played the usual stuff, not thinking about the challenges anymore.

    A few weeks ago I justed didn't want to have an expensive pack and not doing anything with it, so we started out again after I looked up a guide to Colossal Crystals in the forums (which was really good for a start ) The end of the story is: I'm really thankful that we got a guide for the first challenge as a start because I really like running the challenges now and figuring the best strategies out for ourselves. And after a while of trying out this and that you get a plan, and you improve and that makes it fun to me to see if you can beat your last score or gain more stars. Then the leaderboard - I just like to check now from time to time if some of the harder challenges are now four- or fivestarred and maybe try it myself or even set a new "record". (Here I was wondering, if you can keep track of this, can you keep track of fastest raid times? ^^ Just an idea maybe just display the best let's say 10 runs per raid, that would be sufficient, because it seems that at least some people are interested in that kind of stuff, see the different threads in the forums).
    Last edited by Narishka; 01-13-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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  7. #287
    The Hatchery Fefnir_2011's Avatar
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    I have to kind of echo the sentiment that the drawbacks of running the challenges in groups really hurt it. I played it a couple of times through the daily token program, and I can safely say i will rarely return. Why? The items are just more cove-epic generic, and I'd rather grind "real" epics and get more real epic items, so that leaves xp and grouping as the other two reasons I'd run them. Since i run in groups more than i solo now, it benefits us to grind the high-xp stuff like Wiz-king and Gianthold walkups than to try and struggle through a challenge clearly scaled far too much. It's because of things like this that challenges are very far down on my lists of packs to get, even before things like Sorrowdusk because at least that i can find a group for and run pretty quickly with friends instead of being stuck running it alone for ease of time.
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  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by docbenway View Post
    i mean if you take 30% of the letters away from "way too much" you still end up with "too much".
    qft

  9. #289
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhgiant View Post
    I know it's a little off topic as Mad didn't ask for suggestions on new challenges, but if this challenge were to be created, I would fully support, purchase, and would probably play the heck out of it if it were created. Everyone loves killing mobs, that's why we play DDO and get better lootz.
    Just to make sure I understand: a challenge featuring wave after wave of mobs a la Devil Assault?
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  10. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Just to make sure I understand: a challenge featuring wave after wave of mobs a la Devil Assault?
    I would enjoy that, but think more Hard/Elite (new) Weapons Shipment finalé for me. The intensity of that quest post-change is bloody amazing and one of the best experiences you can have in DDO right now, imo.

  11. #291
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Just to make sure I understand: a challenge featuring wave after wave of mobs a la Devil Assault?
    The most fun quest in the game right now is Elite Weapons Shipment, copy that.

  12. #292
    Founder Solmage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Just to make sure I understand: a challenge featuring wave after wave of mobs a la Devil Assault?
    NOT like devil assault, that's the wrong way of doing it, YES like weapon's shipment, that's the right way.
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  13. #293
    Founder Riggs's Avatar
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    Yeah, however it would work - a Challenge the is JUST about killing stuff would be awesome.

    I hate kobolds. We remember the 500 runs of Waterworks too - and we never forget.

    Keeping NPC's alive certainly has its place - but it is generally very annoying, and it should be a small place. Trying to keep anything alive that stands in aoe until dead is just annoying.

    Just a straight up wave on wave battle. With loot every other wave, or end loot based on how many waves you defeat, or whatever.

    Make the level 20ish battle, or any at level battle difficult, but not silly difficult - but on harder settings - it should get to very difficult - with a proportional increase in loot/xp/ingredients or whatever else the reward is.

    Combat is fun. Herding kobolds is only fun for a small amount of people.

  14. #294
    Founder Solmage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viisari View Post
    Huh? Insane? My monk can basically solo him @ lvl 21
    Reading the whole thing is important. The person I was replying to was talking at low levels encountering the lich as a fighter, soloing.
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  15. #295
    Community Member BlackSteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solmage View Post
    NOT like devil assault, that's the wrong way of doing it, YES like weapon's shipment, that's the right way.
    this, devil assault, even on epic is incredibly boring. Kill a wave wait 30s to a minute for the next to spawn. You end up with more idle time than fighting time.

    devil assault would be alot more fun if waves came ~ 5-10 seconds of killing the last mob in the previous, or heck, just have a general timer, every 20 seconds the next batch comes in. Time for shrine could easily be reduced by half of what it is now as well.
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  16. #296
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Just to make sure I understand: a challenge featuring wave after wave of mobs a la Devil Assault?
    Got to say devil assault and kobold assault are two of the lamest quests in DDO.

    In a challenge I would set it to be X number of mobs spawn each Y seconds. These mobs spawns get stronger and stronger as time goes on with no limit on time and no limit to the number of mobs total that can be out at one time. Quest ends when everyone is dead in the quest for twenty seconds. You gain stars and points based upon mobs killed. The rate of point gain goes up as the mobs get stronger and stronger so lasting longer actually does mean a better point/second ratio. XP would also have to scale based upon your score at the end.

    Basically it is a spawns until the party can not fight any longer challenge.

    The other one of this type would be spawns that come in waves that start after you kill the last wave with each successive wave being stronger and stronger. That one would be scored based upon mobs killed with stars based upon killing X mobs by time Y. Dungeon ends after X mobs being killed. For a consistent amount of rewards being given for a full set of mob spawns, but a longer completion time means less reward/minute.
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  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solmage View Post
    Reading the whole thing is important. The person I was replying to was talking at low levels encountering the lich as a fighter, soloing.
    I read all that was quoted

    Tangleroot goggles are minimum lvl 7 and while I haven't actually tried challenges at lvl 10, almost every other quest at that level has mob HP's so low that even bosses die in seconds, not minutes.

    I find that the best way to deal with the lich is to be at the portal right away when he spawns (ie. when main objective is completed). This is because the lich has random aggro, and if you get the aggro quickly enough you can keep him near the portal because there's nothing else within his aggro range.

    If you're not quick enough then yes he can become problematic when he starts targeting the kobolds.

    But as I said I haven't actually tried it @ lvl 10 so maybe he actually is over the top or maybe he's not and it was merely a bad strategy that lead to this conclusion. Almost all challenge become a joke with a good strategy, even solo as far as I've attempted them. Probably not at level 25 though

    Also looks like he was a barb, not a fighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyr View Post
    Got to say devil assault and kobold assault are two of the lamest quests in DDO.
    The issue I personally have with devil assault is that there's way, way too much waiting. Of the 20-25 minutes it takes to complete on epic probably half is just waiting for the next spawn. It's a bit silly imo.

    I think it would be fine if the next wave spawned right after or 3-6 seconds after the last one was killed completely. This would mean that if you're having trouble you could just save some archer in a corner while you catch your breath, but if you're in an experienced group that just destroys everything you'd get a new spawn right after the last one.

    Would make it less of a snorefest it has become for experienced groups lately without making it too difficult for smart newbies.
    Last edited by Viisari; 01-13-2012 at 04:29 PM.

  18. #298
    Community Member Sarisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimkj View Post
    I would enjoy that, but think more Hard/Elite (new) Weapons Shipment finalé for me. The intensity of that quest post-change is bloody amazing and one of the best experiences you can have in DDO right now, imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by grodon9999 View Post
    The most fun quest in the game right now is Elite Weapons Shipment, copy that.
    Concur. Even with the horribly bad drop rates of the chests, this quest is just FUN. It's intense, it's crazy, and if you have a charm happy caster, gets even more nuts.

  19. #299
    Community Member nomaddog's Avatar
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    I am going to lay out how I feel about challenges as clearly and detailed as I possibly can, showing both the pros and cons of what I see in the system.

    Pros:
    - Something different to do from all the other types of quests
    - Some really nice loot available
    - Varied types of challenges at various level ranges

    Cons:
    - Prohibitive price point for challenge pack
    - Linking favor rewards to star-rating
    - Necessity of grinding quests to obtain ingredients for crafting

    I'm sure there are additional things that I'll think of later, but those are the major ones. When U11 came out, I had to choose between purchasing Artificer or the new content. I chose the new content on the basis that I would be able to earn Artificer through favor once U12 came out.

    U12 came out and I was instantly put off by the rather high purchase price of the content. I was severely disappointed because I was looking forward to some exciting new quests and playing a new class.

    I refused to run any of the challenges for quite awhile, but finally caved in a couple of weeks ago. I used the daily challenge tokens that I'd saved up (they take up WAY too much bank space) and was underwhelmed with the ones I've ran (Did some in Rushmore Mansion and Extraplanar Mining). I was really hoping for more and have been sorely disappointed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Just to make sure I understand: a challenge featuring wave after wave of mobs a la Devil Assault?
    Please NO. You've no idea how horrible are quests when you have to kill wave after wave of the same mobs. Even the Harbor xoriat quest when you need to wait like 10 waves of taken in order to advance the quest ... incredibly boring mechanic.
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