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  1. #41
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkcat1028 View Post
    It is a very cumbersome interface and could certainly use an upgrade. So... Yay!

    From several of the dev posts I've read recently, it seems you folks are excited about something. If that's any indicator, I'm looking forward to the next few updates!
    The Devs were really excited about the challenges, and Maj's "Best Item EVAR" was a clicky that turned you into a kobold.

    Expect dissappointment and you end up pleasantly surprised.
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  2. #42
    Community Member red_cardinal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Some of you might dismiss this as ‘fixing something that isn’t broken’ and that’s fine – it’s totally subjective – but, hey, I’m giving you a heads up just the same.

    We hate the Enhancement UI. It’s been 4 years and I still cringe every time I see it, let alone use it. It does a poor job of letting players plan out character goals and you need the patience of a saint to use it. I could go on and on, but I won’t (feel free to use this thread to vent your frustrations with it if you share our opinion).
    I don't expect anything more than grouping children horizontally and showing them as icons. But, that would mean to much icons, say for Sorcerer Glaciation I,II,III,IV,V,VI,VII. Maybe you could have simple icons with hover tooltips explaining what icon means. That would conserve space vertically and wouldn't be so much scrolling needed.


    We’re re-doing it – replacing it with a tree-based design that should make character planning and advancement much better and also have the added benefit of making it easier for us to implement new enhancements (PrE’s anyone?).

    It will also be the foundation for some future work.
    Tree is a tree - it's just how you render it.

    Functionality is more important than pretty colors. If I want pretty colors, I go surf the web.

    Also, I don't understand why not implement tier III enhancements for classes which have tier II. It's just silly. I understand lack of the whole Prestige for one class, but lacking tier III is silly.
    I hope you go all the way - no more "maybe yes, maybe no" attitude!!! (Occult slayer - maybe yes, but tier II only. :P )

    It does mean that when this goes live, all of you will have your enhancements reset and you will have to re-spend your action points. Some enhancements will remain the same, but many will be new. The changed enhancements will also help balance out many classes (think augmentation here, not nerfs). I appreciate that forced change can be very stressful and realize that this will be major inconvenience for those who don’t enjoy having to make a ton of decisions – especially when there are ‘new’ enhancements to digest, but have no doubt it will be worth it in the end.
    People like changes in theory, but never in practice - no matter how blunt this sounds.
    If you are getting new servers, consider giving Tempests their bonus to attack speed back, instead of double strike (same for paladin's zeal).

    Also, core point revolving around building toons - FEATS. Please, review them:
    -> Shoot on the run - doesn't apply to bow users while moving (borked!),
    -> Whirlwind attack - to slow animation,
    -> Slicing blow - useless - doesn't scale with character level or any stat modifier,
    -> Cleave, Geater cleave, Whirlwind attack, Supreme cleave - all share the same animation - maybe change it to see a difference?
    -> Improved shield bash - when attacking with a weapon and a shield (char has this feat) animation looks dorky. Consider making this an active feat so when clicked, it executes an animation like that Skeleton, which likes to dance a lot, does it.
    -> Mobile spellcasting - if a caster doesn't have this feat, spells can't be cast while jumping and moving. Add a slow effect there or something. Make this feat viable.
    -> Power critical - give me a break. Make it like a Seeker Competence bonus. It's a passive feat so not much fuss about changing it.
    -> Rapid shot - no difference when using bows. Make this an active feat so it doubles the rate of firing arrows/bolts at the cost of -4 to attack.

    There are also skills in the game which have little sense to take:
    - Heal - do something with this feat. Allow using healer/repair kits on self. At least that.
    - Hide/Move silently - that's a story for itself. Using an object breaks stealth. Sniper shot breaks stealth. Some love here, please.
    - Listen - this skill is almost worthless. Spot is far better. At least use it in some quests as a part of dialog check (like bluff and spot are in Partycrashers).
    - Swim - more gauntlets like Crucible with rushing water and stuff,
    - Tumble - completely useless. First of all, to tumble you need to hold down shift and then press movement key. Change this so when a movement key is 'double pressed' (like in Unreal), toon does a roll. Also, try to adjust animation so it smoothly fits into attack sequence.
    Last edited by red_cardinal; 01-06-2012 at 07:30 PM.

  3. #43
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    I love the sound of this because using the existing enhancement UI was one of the most frustrating things about learning the game.

    I do hope you will usability test/play test the new UI extensively with real players before you commit to it, though.

    This sounds promising.
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  4. #44
    Community Member KillEveryone's Avatar
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    As long as I can make my characters the way they are now.

    I do feel some enhancements should be cheaper like the racial combat DC enhancements, racial armor enhancements. Pretty much the racial enhancements.

    A class enhancement I feel is a bit expensive is the bard inspire bravery, mostly because this is just junk and eats up AP and my warchanter already had to spend 2 feats, 1 of which I could slot something better, on a feat starved build.
    Disappointed and without trust in the powers that be.
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  5. #45
    Community Member red_cardinal's Avatar
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    Prestige enhancements are vital part of DDO. It's a shame that they were neglected for 3 years and all was left on a promise. That aside, if you guys want to have the best thing out there for multiclassing so your Marketing department can brag about it in ads, focus yourselves on this AND the feats that come with it. I understand that not all feats can be useful at all times, but they should make a difference. Same goes for skills.

    One thing that catches the eye of a newbie is that they read Path description and they think - wow... deepwood sniper, master of archery... I just like to try to snipe things... And after in the game they discover that it's total ****. And that it's unfinished. The first impression lead to disappointment. That's just astronomically so not cool! :P

  6. #46
    Community Member Dagolar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Some of you might dismiss this as ‘fixing something that isn’t broken’ and that’s fine – it’s totally subjective – but, hey, I’m giving you a heads up just the same.

    We hate the Enhancement UI. It’s been 4 years and I still cringe every time I see it, let alone use it. It does a poor job of letting players plan out character goals and you need the patience of a saint to use it. I could go on and on, but I won’t (feel free to use this thread to vent your frustrations with it if you share our opinion).

    We’re re-doing it – replacing it with a tree-based design that should make character planning and advancement much better and also have the added benefit of making it easier for us to implement new enhancements (PrE’s anyone?).

    It will also be the foundation for some future work.

    It does mean that when this goes live, all of you will have your enhancements reset and you will have to re-spend your action points. Some enhancements will remain the same, but many will be new. The changed enhancements will also help balance out many classes (think augmentation here, not nerfs). I appreciate that forced change can be very stressful and realize that this will be major inconvenience for those who don’t enjoy having to make a ton of decisions – especially when there are ‘new’ enhancements to digest, but have no doubt it will be worth it in the end.

    I hope that many of you will welcome this sort of change, but either way, feel free to share your thoughts and concerns. Again, I invite PMs for those who prefer to voice their opinions that way.
    Looking forward to it

  7. #47

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    Can I suggest the following

    Halfling encumbrance I: 0 AP, changes the halfling encumbrance penalty from 50% to 0%
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  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Some of you might dismiss this as ‘fixing something that isn’t broken’ and that’s fine – it’s totally subjective – but, hey, I’m giving you a heads up just the same.

    We hate the Enhancement UI. It’s been 4 years and I still cringe every time I see it, let alone use it. It does a poor job of letting players plan out character goals and you need the patience of a saint to use it. I could go on and on, but I won’t (feel free to use this thread to vent your frustrations with it if you share our opinion).

    We’re re-doing it – replacing it with a tree-based design that should make character planning and advancement much better and also have the added benefit of making it easier for us to implement new enhancements (PrE’s anyone?).

    It will also be the foundation for some future work.

    It does mean that when this goes live, all of you will have your enhancements reset and you will have to re-spend your action points. Some enhancements will remain the same, but many will be new. The changed enhancements will also help balance out many classes (think augmentation here, not nerfs). I appreciate that forced change can be very stressful and realize that this will be major inconvenience for those who don’t enjoy having to make a ton of decisions – especially when there are ‘new’ enhancements to digest, but have no doubt it will be worth it in the end.

    I hope that many of you will welcome this sort of change, but either way, feel free to share your thoughts and concerns. Again, I invite PMs for those who prefer to voice their opinions that way.
    If the work translates into buffing some classes that need it and lays the ground work for more PrE's faster I would have a hard time not thing that is a productive use of development time.

    On that note screenshot it or it didn't happen.

    Can we get some information on the new enhancements or direction you are going with them so we can provide more focused feedback?

  9. #49
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    I don't mind a reworking of the enhancements UI - but it would be VERY nice if it incorporated the ability to cross-reference feats as so many PRe's have BOTH as requirements.

    Actually, I would hope this change would be incorporated into an overall character planner. I can't believe there isn't one now to be honest - and I mean that with no offense to Ron's program, which I love. Given the game's complexity and many layered interactions between skills, equipment, feats, and enhancements, especially at level 20, there SHOULD be some way to really map out your character with 'official' sources. I am sure almost every DDO has lived in the Player's Handbook while playing pnp - I think it is a missing element to the UI now.
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  10. #50
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    If this new interface expedites the release of new prestige class enhancements (Barbarian Occult Slayer, Favored Soul Divine Avenger, Monk Henshin Mystic, etc), I'm all for it.
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  11. #51
    Community Member Xenostrata's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    On that note screenshot it or it didn't happen.
    All joking aside, could you maybe give us a picture of the new UI? I can totally understand if you can't, but a visual representation would be very helpful in formulating an opinion.
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  12. #52
    Community Member oberon131313's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeLoric View Post
    Im sure there's some crit rage barbarians gonna be upset.
    indeed
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  13. #53
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    Default The UI Has Never Been That Troubling (To Me)

    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Some of you might dismiss this as ‘fixing something that isn’t broken’ and that’s fine – it’s totally subjective – but, hey, I’m giving you a heads up just the same.

    We hate the Enhancement UI. It’s been 4 years and I still cringe every time I see it, let alone use it. It does a poor job of letting players plan out character goals and you need the patience of a saint to use it. I could go on and on, but I won’t (feel free to use this thread to vent your frustrations with it if you share our opinion).

    We’re re-doing it – replacing it with a tree-based design that should make character planning and advancement much better and also have the added benefit of making it easier for us to implement new enhancements (PrE’s anyone?).

    It will also be the foundation for some future work.

    It does mean that when this goes live, all of you will have your enhancements reset and you will have to re-spend your action points. Some enhancements will remain the same, but many will be new. The changed enhancements will also help balance out many classes (think augmentation here, not nerfs). I appreciate that forced change can be very stressful and realize that this will be major inconvenience for those who don’t enjoy having to make a ton of decisions – especially when there are ‘new’ enhancements to digest, but have no doubt it will be worth it in the end.

    I hope that many of you will welcome this sort of change, but either way, feel free to share your thoughts and concerns. Again, I invite PMs for those who prefer to voice their opinions that way.
    What hurts is the points where it takes 6-AP to move an enhancement... that means sitting for 1-and-one-half of a level before getting to see character advancement. That is... depressing

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    ...It does mean that when this goes live, all of you will have your enhancements reset and you will have to re-spend your action points....
    My only "problem" with this (OK, OK - maybe not my "only" problem) is the "AP spending pre-requisite" ("progress") for some of the enhancements (I personally think having the "you must spend 'x' APs before taking this enhancement" is...shall we say, "less than smart") - especially if these requirements have changed from the original taking of the enhancements. As an example, I am contemplating LR'ing my ranger, but in planning out said LR, there is currently no way for me to re-take only the enhancements I currently have WITHOUT taking a few 'extra' ones to satisfy the "AP progress" requirements (meaning that they have changed from the time I originally took my enhancements). So, if my enhancements are reset, AND there have been changes to the progress requirements (since I orginally took the enhancements), how can I be assured I can get the SAME set of enhancements I currently have? I may end-up being a few APs (maybe even just 1 AP) short because of the 'new' progress requirements.

    Possible Solution #1: eliminate the "progress" requirements (go ahead and keep the class/toon level requirements and "must have 'this' enhancement" requirements).

    Possible Solution #2: after the re-set, TEMPORARILY suspend the "progress" requirements until AFTER the enhancements have been re-taken (or for a definite amount of time, say, three weeks [just an arbitrary number] after the 're-set') to allow people to "get back what they had". (Of course, some will take this opportunity to completely redo their enhancements - but there is no 'perfect' solution.)

    My preference would be possible solution #1 (for several reasons, not the least of which is that I can see possible solution #2 being much more difficult to implement).

    {Hear's a can being opened, somewhere in the background...perhaps it contains...worms?}
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  15. #55
    Community Member oberon131313's Avatar
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    Default The story of a Crit Rage II Barb

    I like the idea of updating the enhancements UI, but if you force a reset, I will lose one of my favorite characters.

    I have a Crit Rage II Barb. Before the ability to get additional character slots, I deleted him (cap was 14 at the time). The day that the ability to undelete characters came out, I paid to have him undeleted. I was then left with a 12 barb / 1 fighter / 1 ranger toon that I couldn't GR, and couldn't reset the enhancements on. I was ok with that, because I knew that I could still make a toon that I would enjoy playing if I was careful. That toon is now capped, with a 3 piece Abashai set and a +3 supreme tome (As I planned on never TRing him). I have been incredibly careful to ensure that I don't lose the enhancement, as it makes that character different to play, and that is what I find the most enjoyment in; making toons that people wouldn't normally make, and making them 'somehow' work.

    With a forced enhancement respec, I lose what makes Ognwe- special.
    Last edited by oberon131313; 01-06-2012 at 07:57 PM.
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  16. #56
    The Front Side Gratch's Avatar
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    A new treelike UI might be nice - though that mostly works in other games because they're a lot less dense with options... and don't have multiclassing.

    Recosting enhancements and new enhancements will be nice. Tread carefully if you move enhancement levels... especially if moved upwards... or face the cries of a thousand multiclassed toons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    DO NOT DO THIS. We are investigating.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon131313 View Post
    I like the idea of updating the enhancements UI, but if you force a reset, I will lose one of my favorite characters.

    I have a Crit Rage II Barb. Before the ability to get additional character slots, I deleted him (cap was 14 at the time). The day that the ability to undelete characters came out, I paid to have him undeleted. I was then left with a 12 barb / 1 fighter / 1 ranger toon that I couldn't GR, and couldn't reset the enhancements on. I was ok with that, because I knew that I could still make a toon that I would enjoy playing if I was careful. That toon is now capped, with a 3 piece Abashai set and a +3 supreme tome (As I planned on never TRing him). I have been incredibly careful to ensure that I don't lose the enhancement, as it makes that character different to play, and that is what I find the most enjoyment in; making toons that people wouldn't normally make, and making them 'somehow' work.

    With a forced enhancement respec, I lose what makes Ognwe- special.
    Maybe just incorporate crit rage into ravager and release that? Not a perfect solution but it may have merit.
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  18. #58
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    I somewhat like the sound of this.

    Here's a mockup of an idea for how enhancements could be displayed:



    Note that this has a few made-up enhancements as well as real ones (or real ones as best as I can remember them). I used Comic Sans purely to be evil, if you don't like it, bite me
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  19. #59
    Community Member Cleanincubus's Avatar
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    Game wide resetting of enhancements is fine, as long as you have a big warning on the main game screen, as well as a big screen after you've logged in. Otherwise people will flip out.

    And please, PLEASE, release the new UI on Lamannia well in advance. Basically enough time for changes to be made, before it hits the live server, if things are as bad as when the game's UI was changed. Even if a Beta version is released a whole update before it hits the Live server (i.e. the UI is set to go Live for U14, put it on Lamannia for the U14 preview, but don't send it to Live until U15).

  20. #60
    Community Member Vellrad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    I somewhat like the sound of this.

    Here's a mockup of an idea for how enhancements could be displayed:



    Note that this has a few made-up enhancements as well as real ones (or real ones as best as I can remember them). I used Comic Sans purely to be evil, if you don't like it, bite me
    Nice, I like it!
    But instead of saying 4 per level say each rank, except when you level up, as 4/level may lead to thinking that you get AP in moment of leveling.
    Also, add in text search, and its how it could look in game!

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