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  1. #1041
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    I would like to see them flatten out PrE benefits more. Power Surge at level 6 Kensai (increasing linearly in power at 12 and 18). Frenzy at level 6 FB (increasing linearly in power at 12 and 18)
    Yes, well it seems they are kind of going the opposite direction of my idea of splitting up PrE so you can pick and choose the parts you like and instead placing more emphasis on getting the perfect point allocation between PrE's to get the most PrE's possible to high tier.
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
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  2. #1042
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegof View Post
    I'm a little worried that they are changing the system in order to charge TP for enhancement slots. So as FTP you would have space to get Haste Boost II but to get HBIV you would need to spend cash to open those slots.
    ummmm...where did you get that idea?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  3. #1043
    Community Member Fegof's Avatar
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    It would be another way to increase revenue. LOTRO already does something similar with traits. For FTP accounts I think you get 2 traits slots and then have to spend TP to unlock more. I'm not suggesting DOOM!!!, but I bet there is a bean counter somewhere who has already thought of it.

  4. #1044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fegof View Post
    It would be another way to increase revenue. LOTRO already does something similar with traits.
    stop giving them idea's fgs

  5. #1045
    Community Member seventyseven's Avatar
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    Thumbs down wasted patience

    i have 4 characters that would lose their crit rage 2. i do not appreciate having my patience squandered this way.
    I play for loot and i play for fun. May the next reader be so lucky.

  6. #1046
    2016 DDO Players Council Ziindarax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystafyi View Post
    stop giving them idea's fgs
    He has a point, and may even be right. Though I would rather quit DDO than submit to a pay-per-tree scheme - Pay-to-win does not sit well with me.
    Ziind Stargazer - Level 12 fighter/6 Barbarian/2 rogue Half-Orc (Neutral Good) - Formerly a level 20 Paladin Human - Orien

    Fernian Summer Carnival

  7. #1047
    Community Member Thrudh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seventyseven View Post
    i have 4 characters that would lose their crit rage 2. i do not appreciate having my patience squandered this way.
    (1) You might get it back through the Ravager line (plus all the stuff you've missed out on for the past 3 years)

    (2) Come on, you knew that enhancement wouldn't last forever... Besides FB is a lot better than Critical rage unless you have FOUR archer barbarians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eth View Post
    When you stop caring about xp/min this game becomes really fun. Trust me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gary_Gygax
    No single character has all the skills and resources needed to guarantee success in all endeavors; favorable results can usually only be achieved through group effort. No single player character wins, in the sense that he or she defeats all other player characters; the goal of the forces of good can only be attained through cooperation, so that victory is a group achievement rather than an individual one.

  8. #1048
    Community Member MaxwellEdison's Avatar
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    What if instead of selecting the tree in each pane of the enhancement window, you have three for each selected class that you swap all at once. You can spend points in any of the trees (up to class level limits) but each pane would let you set if you want to activate the Prestige Class bonuses, up to three.

    This way you do not lock out enhancements from splash levels, and the 1% of players that purposefully don't want a PrE at all (why, I can't fathom) are not forced to.

  9. #1049
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxwellEdison View Post
    What if instead of selecting the tree in each pane of the enhancement window, you have three for each selected class that you swap all at once. You can spend points in any of the trees (up to class level limits) but each pane would let you set if you want to activate the Prestige Class bonuses, up to three.

    This way you do not lock out enhancements from splash levels, and the 1% of players that purposefully don't want a PrE at all (why, I can't fathom) are not forced to.
    I approve of this message.
    1} It contains all of the current functionality that we presently have.
    2} It adds in some of the functionality that is idealized by the trees conceptually.
    3} It keeps the following quote true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    Customization of builds remains super important. Amongst other previously stated goals, we hope for this overall change to increase the number of viable build options, not reduce them.
    +1 for Murder. Simple and elegant. It's the best idea this thread has seen in 50+ pages.
    Last edited by Calebro; 01-10-2012 at 12:00 PM.
    .

  10. #1050
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Tank View Post
    For the love of god give us (warforged) juggernaut not stalwart defender.
    You do know that the Juggernaut gains immunity to healing spells right?

    Vordax

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  11. #1051
    Community Member seventyseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    (1) You might get it back through the Ravager line (plus all the stuff you've missed out on for the past 3 years) you ASSume too much. they are specific builds. i didn't miss out on anything, i just kept those toons' enhancement lines.

    (2) Come on, you knew that enhancement wouldn't last forever... Besides FB is a lot better than Critical rage unless you have FOUR archer barbarians.
    i do have 1 of those too. the diversity/ versatility of these toons goes moot with thoughts like yours. why shouldn't it continue? i've refrained from adjusting the points on my toons. so can you. besides FB requires feats, my toons are already setup without


    thanks for your support.
    I play for loot and i play for fun. May the next reader be so lucky.

  12. #1052
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxwellEdison View Post
    What if instead of selecting the tree in each pane of the enhancement window, you have three for each selected class that you swap all at once. You can spend points in any of the trees (up to class level limits) but each pane would let you set if you want to activate the Prestige Class bonuses, up to three.

    This way you do not lock out enhancements from splash levels, and the 1% of players that purposefully don't want a PrE at all (why, I can't fathom) are not forced to.
    Virtual+1, given out to much in 24 hours.
    Matt Walsh:
    But Truth is eternal, so it can never be old or new. It never ‘was’ or ‘will be.’ It just ‘is.’ It always ‘is.’

  13. #1053
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordax View Post
    You do know that the Juggernaut gains immunity to healing spells right?

    Vordax
    People who really optimized it got around that either by only dipping the PRC or by making sure nothing survived more than a round or two.
    Ghallanda - now with fewer alts and more ghostbane

  14. #1054
    The Top Side GoldyGopher's Avatar
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    Default Concerns and Thoughts

    This morning after thinking about this topic last night, discussing it in guild, and talking to other players I have to admit I am both excited and concerned about the prospect of what this might bring.

    My first concern has to do with power creep. Sorry after reading this I have concluded (whether it is correct or not) that Turbine is grabbing those players on the bottom and pulling them to the middle, grabbing those in the middle and pulling them towards the top, and unfortunately strapping a rocket booster on to the character designs that need the least amount of help and propelling them into a new orbit.

    While we play a game that has pretty close to infinite possibility for character designs the reality is we have a few cookie cutter designs that work in the current game. I’d argue about 6 to 10 with a couple variations of each based up class/racial makeup. To me this change isn’t going to make more designs viable rather it is going to solidify those 6 to 10 cookie cutter designs as the leaders.

    What leads me to this conclusion is how the devs had described access to enhancements under the tree model. To me it seems as if the Racial and Class Trees are TOO LIMITING to allow characters to effectively pick and choose what matches their play style and ideas for characters.

    In my opinion to make more play styles and characters viable to the game we need to have improved AI Scripting, improved Ranged Attack (Damage), viable AC builds in Epic content, More variations in Mobs (AI and Stats) and the list goes on and on. The question that needs to be asked is what is a Warpriest or Arcane Archer or Deepwoods Sniper or … bringing to the table at End Game.
    What a character brings to the table shouldn't be always about DPS and Healing. Crowd Control, Tanking, Damage Mitigation, trash duty, Buff, Debuff, short term DPS, long term DPS, and so on and so forth also have to be included.
    So the question to me becomes how does this enhancement change bring about more viability of character builds without solidifying a small number of builds as the most viable.
    I understand there will always be better builds, and players more suited to play one style over the other, but the current system clearly has best builds, average builds and bad builds.

    My next thought is how does this change effect multi-class characters and the reasons we choose multi-class characters in the first place. I have a character that was designed to be the highest DPS under a flanking condition, assuming a Tank Could hold Agro. Of course the change to TWF and Crit modifiers stop my playing of that character.
    the problem is we choose the class and layouts based upon what we could and couldn't do. While my character is notas viable as it once was it still makes sense, if suddenly I no longer have access to a point of Dex or Flanking Bonuses or ... because of how the new enhancement trees are laid out I would be very concerned.

    Will multiple class characters be able to take PrE to completion even though they aren't level 18 in that class?

    What about Capstones?
    It appears we will now have access to a Racial Capstone (Arcane Archer whoopie?) and three PrE Capstones but not a Class Capstone?

    How do Past Life Feats play into this?
    I believe that Past Life Feats should have the ability to be enhanced in a new enhancement system.

    I think all characters should have access to every enhancement regardless of class, race and anything else people suggest. However I think that things like Race, Class, Alignment, Selected Feats and other choosen fields should greatly impact the cost of those enhancements. As an example every Race has access to Dex Enahncements at a cost of 4, 5, 6, 7 AP per +1 to the Dex Stat. However an Elf would have the costs at 2, 3, 6, 7. (The exact points would need to be layed out later)

    I also feel thier are some issues with the layout as presented.
    With that in mind I would like to present a rough mockup of what I would like to see. Using a multi-class Character.

    The first tab shows where I have spent points. I could spend additional AP points on things I have already selected.


    The second tab is for enhancements that effect my core STATS and things like AC and HP


    The third tab is specifically for effects that deal with skills in game. I realize most classes probably won't use this screen often but a few will.

    I think I will skip the rest of the tabs as I am getting way long in the tooth.
    Last edited by GoldyGopher; 01-10-2012 at 12:15 PM.

    The Twilight Avengers are always recruiting - http://twilightavengersofeberron.yuku.com/topic/655

  15. #1055
    Community Member red_cardinal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drona View Post
    You missed the point. It is not all about UI. It is about making the planning process of building a toon much easier. It is about dumping useless "pre-requisites" to get a PrE or other enhancements. If this process if going to speed up finishing all the PrEs, it should be encouraged.
    No, I didn't. I merely suggested that devs don't revamp GUI, that they use the current GUI, so they would have more time to deal with implementation of enhancements.

    This is a thread for providing constructive feedback. So far you have given none. We dont need your "mockings".
    You didn't read the whole thread. You just peeked a bit inside.

  16. #1056
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystafyi View Post
    this is a pipe dream. many builds will be broken requiring folks to buy hearts of wood to respec.
    And honestly this is ok with me...IF they do the right thing here and give a free heart of wood to fix any feat issue. Class-mix issues I'm a bit less concerned with - if you built a 12/6/2 something because there was no T3 pre at the time well...you knew it was coming eventually. We didn't know there was a complete change of the entire character system though.

    Character builds do not last forever. That's a part of why I stayed pure on my Warforged Bard - so that when changes like this come along I might be able to get by with a feat swap only or possibly just an enhancement swap.
    Tajawuka 20 Bladeforged Paladin running divine ETR's (3 ranger/monk/fighter pl's, 3 martial epl's) - Toolbots working on Morninglord Cleric life #2 (3 wizard/sorc/druid pl) - Evisra 28 rogue

  17. #1057

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    Quote Originally Posted by maddmatt70 View Post
    I must confess that I am a little more nervous about some of the changes today then yesterday. My main character, Rabiez, is a healing warchanter. Will I be able to do that very easily with your new enhancement system? Bard Song Magic 4 will likely not be on the same tree as warchanter, but perhaps will be on the spellsinger tree thus making it more difficult for me to create that character with your new enhancment system. Its character customization like for characters like Rabiez that do not fit the typical mold, but yet are very effective that this new enhancement system makes me nervous.
    I think for your case you will probably be better off. 41 ap spent to get warchanter and it's capstone. That leaves 39. This means you can spend 30 to also get spellsinger III and it's extra sp effects just by picking up the stuff designated to spellsinger that you already use. Ir you could maybe just get enough for spellsinger 1 and maybe virt 1 or a racial prestige.


    now if you were a splash build and wanted stuff out of fighter and rog as well as all three of the bard trees that's where you'd be kinda screwed.
    Ghallanda Rerolled
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  18. #1058
    Community Member red_cardinal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    And honestly this is ok with me...IF they do the right thing here and give a free heart of wood to fix any feat issue.
    Forget free heart of wood, set option for every account for every character in the main menu to 'Reincarnate' and do lesser reincarnation on that ship.

  19. #1059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    And honestly this is ok with me...IF they do the right thing here and give a free heart of wood to fix any feat issue.
    iirc MadFloyd already said they were going to give out a feat swap token to toons effected. hearts of wood were never mentioned.

  20. #1060
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    Sorry, I couldn't resist. The idea sounds good and the structure is definitely an improvement, but the devil is in the details though and I hope they test the hell out of this with real players before carving it in stone.
    Anál nathrach
    orth’ bháis’s bethad
    do chél dénmha

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