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  1. #4381
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    I just want DDO's UI to look like it's a game from the 2000s and not the 1980s...

  2. #4382
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    I would like to have something that reduces the - imho far, far too long - ManyShot cooldown of the Rangers ...

    If there was a "Let's Talk: Feats" thread, then I would outright complain about it (the imho far too long cooldown of ManyShot) ...

    *sigh* And there are just too many imho for a Ranger really useful feats, but the rules system gives the character too few of them ...
    But that's of course a different story ...
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  3. #4383
    Community Member WurmBurned's Avatar
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    Here's another wire-frame loosely based on the Epic Destiny interface. This illustration assumes that the character has 12 levels in a single class.

    Class level requirements
    Restricting the available enhancements based on class level provides a trade off for multi-classing and often presents the player with interesting choices when considering their build. The class level requirements shown here are broken down into a 1/3/6/9/12/15/18/20 format. By standardizing the level requirements, it should make it easier for players to remember what they need to qualify for a specific enhancement. Such standardization is also likely to make it easer to use a modifier when determining if a player is eligible for an enhancement, but I’ll be talking more about that later on.

    More trees available to each character
    Restricting the player to three class trees has several problems. My major concern is that such a cap will end up being far too limiting for most multi-classed builds or require a large amount of duplicate enhancements. Allowing a character to invest in more trees will enable each enhancement line to remain unique while not over penalizing some one for dipping into the trees available from their secondary class.

    A selectable “Primary” tree for prestige abilities
    The idea is that the player can select what tree grants their prestige abilities for each class. The number of abilities would still be determined from how many action points had been spent in that tree, but a character wouldn’t be locked into the tree that they spent the most points in if they would benefit more from another and this could prevent any silliness if two trees were evenly invested in.

    "Fits in” with the Epic Destiny interface
    The overall visual theme of something like this may not feel as out of place as the 3+1 tree system seen earlier in this thread or the “Burning Crusade” style tree system you can see illustrated behind Eladrin in the “Beyond the Web: Druid” video.

    Racial modifiers for class level
    While it’s not really shown in the wire-frame here, this could be a good way to handle the class trees would be opened by the human racial enhancements. Instead of allowing humans to unlock any one of a large number of class trees through a large investment in racial enhancements, they could simply be treated as having more levels in their dominant class solely for meeting the requirements of an enhancement. This would be capped at character level, but would allow characters of those races broader choices in multi-classing in response to the full trees other races can unlock.
    Last edited by WurmBurned; 06-20-2012 at 11:10 PM.
    Change is not always for the worse, but neither is it always for the better.

    My suggestions for the upcoming enhancement tree system.

  4. #4384

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    Been gone for several months, wondering if we have a feel when this will hit beta? My understanding is Q4, is that correct? (if it even happens)


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  5. #4385

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeslieWest_GuitarGod View Post
    Been gone for several months, wondering if we have a feel when this will hit beta? My understanding is Q4, is that correct? (if it even happens)
    U15, in November. Like you, I'm skeptical it even happens considering it's already been pushed back two updates.

  6. #4386
    Community Member Goregnash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    Cautiously optimistic about this. The current Enhancement UI is certainly not ideal. Hopefully, we'll be seeing some serious love for the primary Melee classes, particularly in terms of DPS.
    Ah HA HA, good one! I think when balance was mentioned they didnt have melee in mind. Ranged has been in dire need for a bump just to bring us up to what the primary melee classes are currently capable of.

    HAHA funny though!

  7. #4387
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    This is one of the best moves I've seen in a while, probably since y'all started to include some 4E stuff.

    So my thoughts on the new enhancement system - yes, yes, and more yes. Only thing I'd want more is a playable kobold race!

    The trees are a good and simple design and way more intuitive than the laggy and clunky enhancement UI at present. Also, it'd be VERY nice to finally have three PREs per class finally fleshed out and all prettily lined up and aligned, while also giving some race/multiclass/etc. options.

    So, from me, a resounding: absolutely yes, can't wait to see it.

  8. #4388
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    Quote Originally Posted by fizban1980 View Post
    I just want DDO's UI to look like it's a game from the 2000s and not the 1980s...
    The funniest thing about your remark is that DDO was released in the 2000s, so by definition of itself it DOES have a UI from the 2000s. :P

    To be fair, it'd have to look like http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/galleri...1287724177.gif to be from the 80s, so.. I just found this kinda hilarious, considering.

  9. #4389
    Community Member kingfisher's Avatar
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    hopefully the devs came to their senses and are back at the drawing board figuring out how to make their precious (and undoubtedly buggy as a mofo) UI changes without the stoooopid 3 three limitation.

  10. #4390
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    So uh Dev-Types I know you put this on hold to finish up the expansion (far less important IMHO but w/e) but now that its released any chance we'll get an update on this, it would be nice to see how you incorparated our feedback which has almost 10,000 posts worth in the official threads alone.

    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    This is one of the best moves I've seen in a while, probably since y'all started to include some 4E stuff.
    I wouldn't say its ONLY because they took 4E stuff but I'm glad that the DDO Devs are willing to take heed to lessons of the successes and failures of others into account when designing things...too bad they refuse to use LOTRO stuff (ie. The Crafting and Cosmetic systems) but I can understand why.

    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    The trees are a good and simple design and way more intuitive than the laggy and clunky enhancement UI at present.
    Agreed the current UI is only accepted because were used to it

    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    Also, it'd be VERY nice to finally have three PREs per class finally fleshed out
    Note that the devs did NOT promise this they said they PLAN to. All I can say is if they get me the full Occult slayer PrE I may actually play a Barbarian

    Quote Originally Posted by losian2 View Post
    While also giving some race/multiclass/etc. options.
    Actually the setup we've been show coupled with the ability for single classes to gain access to all 3 of their Class PrEs is a huge detriment to Multi-classing and is one of the major concerns of the new UI...that and the same planned UI will likely cause alot less variety in builds.

    Check out my post Here for a more detailed rundown
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 07-10-2012 at 07:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  11. #4391
    Community Member etelan's Avatar
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    I'm still waiting to use my free LR until this hits. Fingers are crossed for enhancement based dragonmark upgrades to save on feats. Hope it's coming soon...

  12. #4392
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by etelan View Post
    I'm still waiting to use my free LR until this hits. Fingers are crossed for enhancement based dragonmark upgrades to save on feats. Hope it's coming soon...
    Same here...actually I've been playing far less because of it...I find it hard to be motivated about leveling when I know the majority of my characters will need to be comepletely remade anyways. Really only been playing in my static group.

    Note that I'm not saying that the UI change is a bad thing...just that the time between now and than is gonna suck.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  13. #4393
    Community Member Janitorman's Avatar
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    Default Racial pre

    So haven't kept up with this in a while...

    Are they still planning on humans being able to choose any pre as a racial?
    Still love this game...

  14. #4394
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    The only time the enhancement system is really an annoyance are on respec and planning for PrEs. On respec, you have a lot of AP to spend, but every time you add something to the cart it takes a few seconds to recalculate, then jumps you to the top. It's even more annoying when you have certain things minimized (think Drow Wizard having it not show shortsword damage, wand or scroll heightening). For PrEs, it's a mild irritation to check the "Hide unavailable" box, wait a few seconds, press the "Collapse all" button, wait a second, then scroll down to the "<class> Prestige Enhancement", open that up, then check the effects, prerequisites, and related enhancements for which set is most worth it.

    It seemed the main complaint from MadFloyd about the UI, but my main issue with enhancements is actually the action point spent prerequisites. Just have a level restriction instead, it makes more logical sense and I don't have to spend AP on mostly worthless **** and then not have enough for the good stuff.

  15. #4395
    Community Member dlsidhe's Avatar
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    Looking back over the thread, the initial design, etc., it seems that the goal is to make a seamless transition between heroic enhancements and epic destinies rather than having two totally different GUIs.

    Which, from a design standpoint, is a good thought. I think it might work from a gameplay standpoint as well, if they have an ability similar to the "twists" in epic destinies that could benefit multiclass characters. Example, a 12Pal/6Ran/2Rog being able to "twist" in some of the tempest tree while having both DoS and KotC active. If that was possible, it could open up some interesting builds - taking 12Pal/6Clr/2Mon, twisting in the healing burst to accompany HotD, while also taking KotC? Or doing that, twisting in the light damage line, then taking Exalted Angel ED?

    If the goal is to have the Epic Destiny concepts not be utterly foreign, then there's a lot of potential for increased creativity.

    Suggestions, if I'm vaguely on the right track of the DevMinds:

    1. Active past life feats open up the associated class trees as options, i.e. PL: Fighter would let a pure barb use the kensai tree, PL: Wizard would open up Pale Master for a Sorc. It would make TR'ing more appealing beyond additional build points.
    2. Make it like EDs - separate "character" level from "tree" level. Place class level locks on tree abilities (can't splash monk and then get Ninja Spy I), but allowing the trees to be swapped - I think that was mentioned as a goal in a dev post - essentially requires the ability to level in a tree separately from leveling as a character (maybe racial trees could require character levels to unlock - it would slow their progression automatically). To keep from ridiculous situations, make heroic trees require heroic XP, so you effectively have a limit on how much you can level all your trees.


    If you can level multiple trees, but only have three active at a time, and have "twisted" skills, this could still result in having a wide range of build options. To take the 12Pal/6Clr/2Monk above - running around in Vale? Turn on DoS and KotC with your twisted Radiant Servant skills, and whatever racial tree works best for you. Go over to the Orchard and swap KotC for HotD. Implemented that way - as similar to EDs as possible - the enhancement revamp could create more options rather than limiting them.
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  16. #4396
    Community Member Blayster's Avatar
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    I've read a big part (not all though) of this thread, and I see many, many, maaaaany people complaining about paladins, rangers and bards.

    What I cannot recall seeing is a reply by MadFloyd (or any developer) mentioning if anything will indeed be done concerning these classes. If anyone has spotted such a post, could you please quote it? (I've used the search engine, nothing was found).

    If MadFloyd (or any other staff member) has not given any position concerning these classes yet, I think it would be nice to know if they are at least considering some improvements, and what kind of improvements. I see many suggestions here (and I have suggestions from my own, actually very different from others), what I am not sure is if there is anyone taking them into account - sometimes I have the feeling that this is the paladin that developers want to have, and no matter how much winning, it will stay like this or change marginally.

  17. #4397
    Community Member KanedaEX's Avatar
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    Turbine please stop fixing non broken things and focus on whats important. This enhancements lines, the complete prestiges has been something we were all dying to see for a long time. Please release asap.

  18. #4398
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    I haven't read the whole thread, because the amounts of posts / replies are too huge. If this is a suggestion that someone else has implied before, I shall apologize here for my ignorance first.

    Please add a "save template" function in the enhancements UI. Some builds, especially multiclassing ones, could be of several different prestige combinations. If the new enhancement system would allow players to re-assign the action points more freely, this function would help a lot.

  19. #4399
    Community Member Aritukus's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who is not so optimistic about the change? Not that I dont look forward to the day when we finally get all the PrEs, but I... they call it deja vú. By releasing Epic Destiny module with the actual expansion that was based upon it, for which they had enough time to test/finalize, we have 10 EDs trees with less abilities then the new "possible" enhancement trees. Thats something of a 1/4 of what they need to do for all PrE and even more if we are speaking about race/dragonmarks. So implication in my head are: a) nowhere near the releasing; b) EDs after 2 major fixes and 1-2? hot fixes are still very, very hard bugged - cant truly imagine what would a complete Enhancement revamp look like on the side of bugs - and we all know that the "fixing" time of Turbines engineers is... taking too long; c) now lets pretend that they would kill the bugs with fire and the above mentioned engineers, which alone would be the greaters achievement, after such a great work, this module would surely not be free, perhaps a full scale update, perhaps "posponed" to next "great" expansion.

    Overall, call me pessimist, but if we even hear about anything "real" happening about the enhancements change before this years christmas, I will eat my keyboard with a slice of bread and some ketchup. And... I called myself not so "optimistic" about this change. Haha.

  20. #4400
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    @Aritikus: Aside from a few "yes-(wo)men" were all just as terrified about this change as we are excited. The reasoning for the 10k+ posts in the 2 official threads is because of how many things there are wrong with the initial proposal for the new enhancements system. The total silence about the subject since than despite the "Let's Talk" idea of the thread is worrying people even more.

    As for the bugs...its a MMO its constantly changing, the presence of bugs is an expectation and in general any major bugs are dealt with pretty quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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