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  1. #1
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    Default DDO n00b but D&D veteran - critique my build please

    Build goals: Be able to solo all dungeons on Hard difficulty (with some Elite) and able to open all locks and find/disable all traps.

    Race - Warforged
    Class - Rog 1/Wiz 19
    Stats (assuming 32 points)
    STR - 8
    DEX - 16 (10)
    CON - 12 (2)
    INT - 18 (16)
    WIS - 10 (4)
    CHA - 6

    Explanation: I want Disable Device, Open Locks and Search as class skills. With the Wizard's 2+INT (4) skill points I can max those skills every level while only requiring one level of Rogue. Since I won't take Wizard until level 2 I'll be able to get the Warforged Inscribed Armor I enhancement and thus be able to start with 0% spell failure chance. I chose Wizard over Sorcerer because Warforged get a CHA penalty and because I need a high INT for skill points. CON is only 12 because Warforged get CON bonuses as they level and I hope to be able to heal myself through damage if need be. I'm only taking one level of Rogue instead of two for Evasion because I hope to be able to detect and disable all traps thus I don't need Evasion for that, and in regards to enemy casters, I would rather spend gold on repair wands or spell point potions than waste an entire level just for one class ability. Wisdom is raised to 10 just so I don't have a Will save penalty, Warforged get an enhancement to Will saves and they have a few immunities too so I don't think this will be too big of a problem.

    Questions I have for you all:
    1) Is my goal viable with this build?
    2) Are there better builds for this goal?
    3) Should I wait until I get Warforged Inscribed Armor III to take Mithril Body or just wait until II or even take it at level 3 when I only have I?
    4) One potential problem with this build (largely because in this game Search isn't a class skill for Wizards much to my chagrin). Is that I won't have any skill points leftover for Concentration until my INT goes up from items or whatever, how much of a problem will that be?

    Thanks everyone.
    Last edited by MaxHavoc; 12-29-2011 at 01:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Drop Dex by at least 2 points so you can raise Con up to 16.

    The only use for dex in your build is to boost your Open Lock skills, and that rarely needs to be maxed out. You could drop it all the way to 8 and boost your strength some so that you have more carrying capacity. Just get Insightful Reflexes if you're concerned about your reflex saves.

    You're a wizard, you will never be able to get AC to viable levels. Forget about Mithril Body.

    A WF wizard with trapmonkey skills is a viable build. Many wizards get 1 more level of rogue to have extra survivability.

    Your disregard for Con is discouraging though.

    EDIT: You'll be getting more skill points from when you raise your Int every 4 levels. Int tomes will also help if gotten early. Just put the extra points into Concentration. By the time you're higher level, you should be able to make up the difference of not putting in the points early.
    Last edited by WielderofGigantus; 12-29-2011 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #3
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Forget AC.

    Dump Dexterity. Instead take insightful reflexes (int bonus to reflex saves instead of dex).

    Take 2 rogue levels not 1. Evasion is very useful in game, wizard 19 compared to 18 meh.

    Con is your second prim req. Drop out the wisdom and go full out int con and you will be happier at the end of the day (by far). Will saves are the least important saves in the game.

    PnP to DDO has tons of differences.

    18 wiz/2 rogue warforged with max int/con is a very powerful base to accomplish your goals.
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  4. #4
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    Glad to critique the build.

    First, realize that CON is far too low. It must be maxed or near max, as far as you can get it. Even WF.

    Next, you may safely dump DEX down to as low as you can get it. AC for this build is useless. Don't take the mithral or addy feats, they are also useless.

    Third, you need a bit of strength to handle the annoying Ray of Enfeeblement spell that will invariably be spammed upon you in many quests. Plus you can carry slightly more, always a good thing.

    Fourth, and most importantly.. you need that 2nd rogue level for evasion. Trust me, you will thank yourself for it later on and wonder why in the world you would have ever thought otherwise.

    Fifth, insightful reflexes, baby!

    New Stats:

    STR 10
    DEX 8
    CON 16
    INT 18
    WIS 10
    CHA 6

    Cha is pretty low but there's only a few quests where it gets drained and you'll be in danger of helpless (primarily quori and flayers and whatnot), but for those you can simply equip a +6 item temporarily. No biggie.

    The 18/2 WF wiz is one of the most highly survivable builds in the game and a good choice, but must be built to surive of course.

    Good luck!

  5. #5
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    Ditto on the dropping Dex for more Con(Bump it up to 16 minimum). Particularly if you plan on soloing, HP will be very important.

    I would max Open Locks at character creation, but then ignore it and max out Concentration until you get enough skill points to get both. You wont need a high lock skill at lower levels, and Concentration will be much more useful considering your limited spell points at lower levels. Personally, I would go with Search, Disable, Concentration, UMD, and Open Locks, in that order of priority.

    As for a second rogue level, you are going to run into some instances where the trap box is on the other side of the trap. Traps can get nasty on Elite, and healing through the damage won't be an option when you get killed in one shot. Since there's not much difference between 18 and 19 levels of Wizard, I would recommend taking a second rogue level later, around your 8th or 9th level, to get Evasion and catch up on your Rogue skills.(Just my preference though, either can work fine)
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  6. #6
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    Ok so what I'm hearing is primarily dump DEX for CON and take two levels of Rogue instead of one. So Evasion is really that good huh? If I drop my DEX to 12, will I still be able to open locks at level? I realize I'll have Knock also but ddowiki seems to suggest that it's never as good as Open Lock.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxHavoc View Post
    Ok so what I'm hearing is primarily dump DEX for CON and take two levels of Rogue instead of one. So Evasion is really that good huh? If I drop my DEX to 12, will I still be able to open locks at level? I realize I'll have Knock also but ddowiki seems to suggest that it's never as good as Open Lock.
    I would put no points in DEX at all. Late game you will kick yourself for doing so, wasted pts that could have gone to INT or CON. You'll wind up rerolling or using a heart. Save yourself the trouble.

    Open locks is only useful until you get the knock spell, that is why you only need invest 4 pts in it at start (which is purely optional too, as there are hardly any locks in the beginning that are worth opening.. personally I'd invest 0 in this skill and wait for knock, but thats just me)

  8. #8
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxHavoc View Post
    Ok so what I'm hearing is primarily dump DEX for CON and take two levels of Rogue instead of one. So Evasion is really that good huh? If I drop my DEX to 12, will I still be able to open locks at level? I realize I'll have Knock also but ddowiki seems to suggest that it's never as good as Open Lock.
    Most locks aren't really that challenging, particularly at low levels. The +3 or so difference your Dex will make isn't likely to be an issue. Equipment is a much bigger factor in the skill level in the long run.
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  9. #9
    Community Member voodoogroves's Avatar
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    It is never as good as open lock, but few locks are really that troublesome. You'll be fine.

    Evasion will be nice for you with Insightful Reflexes.


    Typically you take Rogue 1 at first level, then some wizard levels ... as many as you can stand ... before picking up rogue 2. The general rule is get at least 7 wizard levels so you get 4th level spells, because that's a big level for wizards. Evasion any point after that is good.
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  10. #10
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    Ok, thanks for the advice everyone. I'll accede to your sagaciousness and do Rog 2 / Wiz 18 and my new stats will be:

    STR 10 (2)
    DEX 10 (2)
    CON 17 (8)
    INT 18 (16)
    WIS 10 (4)
    CHA 6

    I just really don't like penalties in relevant stats. Also I have no idea how I'm going to survive level 1 with these stats, but I suppose I'll manage.

  11. #11
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxHavoc View Post
    Ok, thanks for the advice everyone. I'll accede to your sagaciousness and do Rog 2 / Wiz 18 and my new stats will be:

    STR 10 (2)
    DEX 10 (2)
    CON 17 (8)
    INT 18 (16)
    WIS 10 (4)
    CHA 6

    I just really don't like penalties in relevant stats. Also I have no idea how I'm going to survive level 1 with these stats, but I suppose I'll manage.
    I would dump Wis at 6 and use those 4 points to raise Str and Dex to 12 each. More carrying capacity and a little stealth. Stealth is actually a huge boon for a solo character, and it doesn't need to be maxed to be useful. Four ranks to start and half a rank each level is all you need as long as you use stealth gear.
    As a WF you're naturally immune to most of the dangerous effects that target Will, so you really don't need a Will save at all. Wisdom is thus wasted stat points.

    Str 12 (or 14), Dex 12 (or 10), Con 17, Int 18, Wis 6, Cha 6
    That's what I would do on a first life 18/2 WF that wanted to solo a lot.
    And ignore Mithral Body from the OP. Your AC won't be good enough for it to matter, so it will be wasted AP on enhancements for it and a wasted feat to get it in the first place.

    After that, there are literally TONS of ways to build a WF rogue splashed wizard. The next decision you need to make is what PrE do you want. On a first life, for a newbie, I'd recommend Archmage. And there are tons of options here as well. Your primary school of magic can vary depending on how you want to play, but your secondary should be Conjuration for the Web Spell Like Ability. A Heightened Web for 3 SP is literally the best CC in the game.
    Last edited by Calebro; 12-29-2011 at 02:20 PM.
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  12. #12
    Founder Freeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxHavoc View Post
    Also I have no idea how I'm going to survive level 1 with these stats, but I suppose I'll manage.
    Pick up a sword and swing at things. The first 3-4 levels come very fast, so don't worry too much about it.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxHavoc View Post
    Ok so what I'm hearing is primarily dump DEX for CON and take two levels of Rogue instead of one. So Evasion is really that good huh? If I drop my DEX to 12, will I still be able to open locks at level? I realize I'll have Knock also but ddowiki seems to suggest that it's never as good as Open Lock.
    Evasion is definitely 'that good.'

    Since you'll be 18 wiz, you can always use 'knock' and get most of the chests and doors you need to get at. There will be a few chests you won't be able to get, but I can't think of anything that would cause you to miss out on anything significant.

    I disagree with maxing Con and dumping wis and dex. Con is very important, but some people overvalue it, and I think a 14-16 con is plenty - even for a first time rogue. You are talking about a 20 hp difference and at some point the cost in build points outweighs the return. You'll find plenty of other places to make up that 20 hps through gear, toughness enhancements, etc.

    I think as a first time rogue without much gear, you'll be happier with a min 10 wis; until you know where the traps are in this game, Spot is VERY useful and starting with a -1 modifier to spot is no fun. Starting with a -1 to your will saves as a soloist is also not very fun.

    If you plan on any stealth, you'll want some dex. 12-14 is a good base.

    Make liberal use of fox's cunning, owl's wisdom, and cat's grace pots and scrolls until you have room to slot the spell or you get +4 stat items.

    Run the Sharn chain to get Min level 1 +5 search & +5 disable goggles. Also the nicked blades are nice for a new player. If you can get into a chronoscope loot run, run it and hope for the goggles of time sensing (+5 to search and spot).

    Don't be afraid to ask someone to craft +5, +7, +9 spot/search/disable shards. You'll be picking up a lot of essences and collectables that you can probably trade for these items and they will help you immeasurably. One of the keys to a good trapper is gear. Especially if you plan to run any quests over level or on hard/elite difficulty.

    IF you are on Sarlona, you can mail Mansoor in game and he'll craft them for you for essences.

  14. #14
    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calebro View Post
    I would dump Wis at 6 and use those 4 points to raise Str and Dex to 12 each. More carrying capacity and a little stealth. Stealth is actually a huge boon for a solo character, and it doesn't need to be maxed to be useful. Four ranks to start and half a rank each level is all you need as long as you use stealth gear.
    As a WF you're naturally immune to most of the dangerous effects that target Will, so you really don't need a Will save at all. Wisdom is thus wasted stat points.

    Str 12 (or 14), Dex 12 (or 10), Con 17, Int 18, Wis 6, Cha 6
    That's what I would do on a first life 18/2 WF that wanted to solo a lot.
    And ignore Mithral Body from the OP. Your AC won't be good enough for it to matter, so it will be wasted AP on enhancements for it and a wasted feat to get it in the first place.
    Calebro has some good advice, but I strongly disagree with dumping WIS to 6.

    If you are a newish player, and a first time rogue, you will want to get your spot as high as you can to sense those traps and trap boxes. Starting with a -2 to spot in Korthos might not kill you, but you'll be spending a lot more time searching around for trap boxes if you don't have a good idea where they are to begin with: For that you need either experience or a good spot.

    I also think Con 17 is unnecessary. Yes HPs are extremely important, but as a WF you get a LOT of toughness enhancements. I suggest a 16 con max (and you won't even notice the difference between 14 and 16 for a good ten levels) and use the build points to round Wis off to 10 if you can. And if you end up going Pale Master, I don't think you'll notice the difference between a 16 base con and a 17 base con.

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    Community Member Postumus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxHavoc View Post
    Ok, thanks for the advice everyone. I'll accede to your sagaciousness and do Rog 2 / Wiz 18 and my new stats will be:

    STR 10 (2)
    DEX 10 (2)
    CON 17 (8)
    INT 18 (16)
    WIS 10 (4)
    CHA 6

    I just really don't like penalties in relevant stats. Also I have no idea how I'm going to survive level 1 with these stats, but I suppose I'll manage.
    You'll be fine with these stats. Just read my first post regarding gear for the rogue skills.

  16. #16
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Postumus View Post
    I think as a first time rogue without much gear, you'll be happier with a min 10 wis; until you know where the traps are in this game, Spot is VERY useful and starting with a -1 modifier to spot is no fun.
    That's a very good point that I forgot about. As he isn't going to know where all the traps are or how to avoid them, Spot becomes pretty important.
    But the skill point requirements to keep Concentration, Search, Disable and Spot all up leaves nothing left for stealth, so Dex becomes useless once again.
    You can skimp on Search and Disable a little (even though people will tell you to max them, as a wizard with Int as your primary you can actually skimp a little because the max Int makes up the difference from what a rogue usually has). So max out Concentration and Spot, and throw left over points into Search and Disable until you get enough to add a full rank to all of them every level.
    Toss the rest into Balance. When playing solo, spending time on your back equals death.

    So Str 14, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 6
    Last edited by Calebro; 12-29-2011 at 03:02 PM.
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  17. #17
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    There is a Knock spell that opens most (but not all) locks in the game.

    There is a feat called "Insightful reflexes" that lets you use your int bonus instead of dex on your reflex save.

    There is a class feat called "Evasion" that lets you take 0 damage from traps where you make your reflex save.


    By going 18 wizard / 2 rogue or 18 wizard/ 2 monk you can survive most traps in the game, even if you don't disable them. And the rogue splash version can disable anything.

    Some veterans take insightful reflex on their pure level 20 wizards and let the traps do their half-damage. It's usually not enough to kill them anyway.
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  18. #18
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Just to echo the chorus: dump-stat everything except INT (16 pts), CON (6-16 pts), and (maybe) STR (whatever's left); add rogue 2 at some point (shortly after lvl 8 would be my recommendation) for Evasion & some extra skill pts; take Insightful Reflexes (I prefer to take it ASAP, but definitely by the time you get Evasion); max Concentration, UMD, Search, and Disable.

    There are a ton of builds along these lines; here's one of mine. Really there are only minor variations between them, though, like starting stats, which school(s) you specialize in, what order you take your metamagics, etc.

  19. #19
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    My Wiz / Rogue {Elf 12 / 3} can open locks in Restless Isles {lvl 10 pay to play pack} when rolling high but Knock won't work even on a 20 on at least one of them.

    Most areas in this game however don't have locks anywhere near that difficult - I think the next silly one is in Gianthold {lvl 14 pay to play pack}.

    He was my first character in DDO so even though I have Greater Reincarnated him since his stats still aren't superb but I will not dump Spot - People who've learnt the game will tell you again and again that Spot is useless {this is because there are very few RANDOM traps in this game - Most are in the same place every time}.

    If like me you don't have a photographic memory Spot will probably always be useful - Otherwise you're gonna want it at least until you've done every quest in the game.

    BTW A Ranger in party will possibly have a very high spot skill - If you can't find the trap chances are he / she might {at low levels Cleric hirelings will notice traps too}.

    To add to what someone said about Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom and Fox's Cunning pots - Heroism pots are also available {From House K} which will boost your skills {these stack with Cat's, Owl's etc.} and you can also use an item of Good Luck and Bard Buffs if need be.

  20. #20
    Community Member Calebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranOhmsford View Post
    My Wiz / Rogue {Elf 12 / 3} can open locks in Restless Isles {lvl 10 pay to play pack} when rolling high but Knock won't work even on a 20 on at least one of them.
    Yes, as we've said, there are a few places where Knock won't cut it. But none of those places have to be "unlocked" in order to bypass. Restless Isles is a perfect example. You don't need to unlock those doors via OL or Knock. There are keys. You just have to go find them.
    If something absolutely has to be unlocked, 90% of the time Knock will do the job. Of the remaining 10%: 9% of the time you don't actually need to open whatever it is that's locked. The other 1% of the time isn't really much to worry about, because it's only 1%.
    (these numbers were completely arbitrary, but are pretty close to accurate)
    Last edited by Calebro; 12-29-2011 at 03:26 PM.
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