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  1. #1
    Developer MadFloyd's Avatar
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    Default LET'S TALK: The Shroud

    This thread assumes you are familiar with the Shroud and are aware of how it played before and after recent changes.

    Designers had noticed that more often than not, players weren't completing all phases of the Shroud and in the spirit of 'making things better', it was decided that more incentive was called for. Loot changes were made. However, while he was 'in there', the designer felt compelled to fix a longstanding bug with the blades.

    Controvery ensued.

    It appears that we've taken what was a very pug friendly experience for pugs and changed it such that's it no longer - well - pug friendly.

    I guess the question here is pretty straightforward: should we revert the changes to the blade section of the Shroud - perhaps just on Normal difficulty?
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  2. #2
    The Hatchery Scraap's Avatar
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    Just fix the multi-proc nature of the damage dealing mechanic.

  3. #3
    Community Member Havok.cry's Avatar
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    Please do not. Once a player learns how to avoid the blades it is not much harder than it used to be. Instead please devote time to fixing any lag/hitching/whateveratechnicalpersonwouldcallit that is in the shroud.
    Matt Walsh:
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  4. #4
    Community Member Maxallu's Avatar
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    Honestly, IMO groups seem to have adapted and normal runs are being completed at a high rate. Now I prefer to run hard with all 20s to have a shot at 4 largest. I do think the end table could lose the smalls all together. They are a waste of an end reward.

  5. #5
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    I think things are (nearly) back to normal for shroud PUGs. The requirements for people to be somewhat competent in HP and playskill have gone up so fewer lvl 16-17's are running it though I don't know that this is all bad.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Niv-mizzet's Avatar
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    No. They're fine. Groups have quickly adapted, and I haven't seen a fail since the 1st week after the change. I always thought it was silly to have the blades in there in the first place before when they were virtually no threat. Kinda glad that got changed.

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Galeria's Avatar
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    Honestly, I hated the new blade issues in the Shroud at first. Now, I think they add another obstacle but are not impossible.

    I would probably vote to dial down the damage that they do on normal, but leave other difficulties alone. The extra chests IMO are worth the extra risk, but on norm it shouldn't be instakilling a level 17 player.
    A PUG is like a box of chocolates
    Get people to read your post.

  8. #8
    Hero
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    Either make them much less lethal or not have the ability to hit 20 times in an instant. Both together is the true problem. On normal..Hard or elite, hope you have some TR HP if you accidentally get hit by a few. And the end rewards still just plain suck.

  9. #9
    Community Member zavozod's Avatar
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    Default The fix.

    Cut back damage 30% on norm/hard. Elite is fine. Throw a reflex save in there.
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  10. #10
    Community Member pSINNa's Avatar
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    Pugging this one a lot of Ghallanda under the new regime, and in pug a set of tactics has emerged that see's these pugs complete 8/10 times (the few failures come when listening skills and party co-ordination are zilch).

    I'm a fairly lazy raider, but i can live with change as it stands. I lead a shroud a few days ago that everyone agreed was the most relaxing they'd had since the change, it can still be a bit of a cruise with a little know how and co-ordination, and i don't really see that as a bad thing.

    Of course, when it does fail i shake my fist at the sky! lol.

    (i'm' more concerned with edq, with not a single completion in pug since it's change, and only one completion running with a raiding channel gig once since then - lfm's have dried up to almost nothing, and the drops remain extremely miserly on this one....)

    Coit out~
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  11. #11
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    I rarely post on the forum but I would love to see it changed back. I am a fairly casual player with a family so I found it nice that I could log in and quickly join a shroud and go as there would be many shrouds posted. My guild is small so in order to run shroud I need to PUG. Nowadays, shroud runs are rarely (really rarely) posted and I miss running the shroud, as I think it is one of my favorite quests. It would be nice to see them posted again. The idea of switching the blades back on normal and keeping it for hard would likely make most happy.

    Thanks for asking the community,
    D

  12. #12
    Hero BurnerD's Avatar
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    The only issue I still see is occasional game performance issues. In the past you could survive a little lag. Now it is much harder and sometimes just impossible. Kinda stinks when you get to part 4 and wipe because of party wide lag spikes.

    I could see normal being toned down slightly maybe, but not much. Leave hard and elite alone.

    I'm ok with the blades hitting as hard as they do. I am wondering if some changes to how they act would help. There are times will blades will sit on Harry at the beginning of the round and not move or disappear, making it difficult to melee him. This might not be intended.....
    Argonessenn -Officer of Storm Shadow-
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  13. #13
    Community Member RedDragonScale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galeria View Post
    Honestly, I hated the new blade issues in the Shroud at first. Now, I think they add another obstacle but are not impossible.

    I would probably vote to dial down the damage that they do on normal, but leave other difficulties alone. The extra chests IMO are worth the extra risk, but on norm it shouldn't be instakilling a level 17 player.
    That was going to be my point.

    At-level toons/parties are probably a little overwhelmed with how much damage the blades are doing in Part IV mostly.

    I like how they spawn from when the bearded devils die but honestly, they do a little too much damage.

    Just tone down a bit how much damage the blades do (in Normal difficulty only) so at-level parties will run Shroud and have a better chance to complete.

  14. #14
    Founder Riggs's Avatar
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    The blades hit harder than other monsters in the same raid do.

    Part 4 - people are more likely to wipe/die when the blades come in than from the pit fiend itself. People jump and scatter out of mass heals etc. I have not even done a hard or elite Shroud yet but people say the blade damage is really excessive.

    The blades went from doing very little damage to a very large amount of damage - and they key here is damage that is;
    Large AOE,
    Unevadable,
    No to hit roll is is needed to take damage,
    No save of any kind to reduce damage,
    DR does not stop the blades.

    Either the damage should be cut to halfway in between what it was before and now, or else some way of a character being able to avoid the damage should be added.

    Other than through twitch skills in a laggy game environment where it is a known issue that what you see on the screen and when you are hit with something happen at not quite the same time - there should be a way to have a save/tohit roll/dr reduce damage.

    (Even jumping into lava has a way to mitigate damage from fire resists/reduction/absorption)
    Last edited by Riggs; 12-22-2011 at 05:06 PM.

  15. #15
    Community Member FranOhmsford's Avatar
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    Dialing the damage down seems to be the consensus from what I''ve read here on the forums. There are some who want the blades gone completely and others who seem to think Shroud should be made even harder.

    I'd go for the middle option of lessening the unavoidable damage in normal AND hard - Leave elite as is for those who have the mouse + keyboard / joypad skills to cope.

  16. #16
    Community Member Myznar's Avatar
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    yes!! those blades are annoying, i understand them on harder diffs, but in normal is easy to die, dying on normal is not fun . I think they will be ok on hard and elite

  17. #17
    Community Member
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    Leave hard and elite alone. Either lower damage on normal or get rid of the following blades on normal. Either
    would be good with the latter being my preference. Essentially insisting that a player be able
    to self heal through 200+ dmg on normal due to following blades is stupid imo other then that it's all fine.

  18. #18
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    I guess the question here is pretty straightforward: should we revert the changes to the blade section of the Shroud - perhaps just on Normal difficulty?
    If you had a way to guarantee there won't be server-side lag-induced mass casualties then they're fine as they are. It is incredibly annoying to watch most of the raid group go from alive to dead within a 5-10 second stutter.

    I still don't see nearly the same number of shrouds, nor am I back on the 2 toons per night schedule.

    I vote for just reverting it since it is such a meat-and-potatoes raid whose gear has become as essential as "con is not a dump stat" especially since everyone's hp and sp are revealed. Some people like the tabasco added but I'm guessing most people do not.

  19. #19
    Scholar Of Adventure & Hero Missing_Minds's Avatar
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    When the shroud was released the designers also stated that they figured people would not complete the full raid. REMEMBER this fact. Players were told point blank it was ok not to finish.

    The issue with the blades is that they allow for ZERO chance of not being hit which is frankly a #$@#$#@@$ in the world of DnD. (save when you tick off the DM) By PnP rules they should be rolling to hit us via our AC score.

    Given the auto hitting and the fact that the it just an area check so client server issues exasperate this 5 fold.... The blades have always been, frankly, a really [frustrating] move by Turbine.

    There are several ways to fix this.
    1. keep the auto hitting but make it like a charge such that they can only strike once every second max.
    2. Make it roll an AC check.

    Heck, just thinking about it, given the fact they are constantly doing area checks, no wonder shroud lags like crazy at times. Eladrin stated that area checking his heavily expensive. Those things are roving area checks in a concentrated area.

    I can appreciate the fact that the blades do more damage and are deadly. I have zero issues with this. Infact I'm in the group that applauds that. However, I have major issues with how they were designed as listed above.
    Last edited by Tolero; 12-22-2011 at 11:52 PM. Reason: name calling: a non-actionable part of feedback. Avoid it.

  20. #20
    Community Member dopey69's Avatar
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    Default imo

    1, you should have normal the way it used to be loot and all

    2, leave hard and elete the way they are now
    ramped up blades and hitpopints with ramped up loot

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