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  1. #1221
    Community Member Powerhungry's Avatar
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    While I do wish for better balance, it should be in the classes and abilities (mainly seriously beefed up capstones and less 'low-hanging fruit' for multi-class) , not the equipment (or lack, there of)
    (Combat): You are hit by your knockdown.

  2. #1222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerhungry View Post
    Darn, my GS (displacement) goggles are exclusive, guess I'll have to make a cloak, helm, boots, bracers, one of each weapon type, etc...
    Maybe if they nerfed displacement clickies they would be forced to fix the broken system where melees are can't be effective without it. I feel sorry for ppl forced to grind clickies. How is that fun? I've got 99 problems but lack of displacement clickies is not one.

  3. #1223
    Community Member Banker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    What are your thoughts on the overall difficulty of DDO? Sure, we offer difficulty choices, but do you find yourself in a postion where even Normal difficulty feels too much like hard?
    If so, do you associate this with a given level in the game (e.g. 10+) or do you think there is just too much inconsistency throughout?
    What's the right balance of challenge vs success for YOU? Do you expect to never fail when playing Normal - or would that simply bore you?
    I'm raising this subject for a few reasons. I think a lot of people expect that when it comes to an MMO, if you put time in you must get progress/reward out of it - and that failure is just plain bad. Spending 45 minutes into a quest only to fail can be very frustrating.
    We have been accused (and perhaps there's truth to this) that we've been balancing the game for the uber-player. Are you finding this to be the case? It seems like a couple years ago the salient message from the community was 'enough with the easy button already!'
    Would love to know your thoughts on this. Feel free to reference specific quests.
    Hail and well met! I started in 11/06 and up until F2P the game was very difficult - so much so - it was a DDO EPIC Feat to accomplish almost any quest SOLO. Back then there weren't any hirelings! I use to try just to see if I could, knowing full well that I'd get a ton of 'penalties' if I failed... Usually I failed, but it was Awesome to just try! Back then - every party needed some type of healer - Cleric's preferred!!! Back then entering a quest meant a lot of risk - risk of XP Penality, etc! That was part of the excitement back then, the risk but then the reward of having the bragging rights: "I solo'ed xx quest!!" I also remember back in the day - "From Beyond the Grave" was a tough quest! There were a whole lot of quests that were difficult with a full party including a cleric!!! But back in those days the scope of the game, the player character's limitations as to what they could have for gear, their abilities, etc where all 'smaller'/'more limited' than they are today. But today is a totally different story... The scope is much, much larger than it was back then. The abilities a character can have has broadened many, many fold. This is my POV but there are too many "easy buttons" everywhere. I freely admit to using those easy buttons too. To some degree I like it, to another degree I hate them! Here we go:

    <DungeonMaster> *Party*: You've all been killed by the acid trap!
    <PartyMember> HEY! I got a rez cake! I"m going to use it!
    <DungeonMaster> *PartyMember* You can't! You're dead!

    But I do know and understand that "DDO" is a business. Personally I'd like to see more of a balancing of characters and their abilities, back towards the day when Clerics where actually needed in parties. Where Raids where run almost everyday; or on a regular schedule. Where you'd need a rogue, fighter type or two, one healer, and at least one caster. With all these easy buttons, pretty much anyone can grab a pocket cleric - especially if they're not a healer type - and do almost any quest on normal, but once you get to hard and especially Elite - it's harder to do unless you populate the entire party with pocket-players. Yes! I almost did this a couple of times - I added a cleric, fighter and caster - albeit not an entire party but that's all one of my characters needed on elite.

    To me again - I think that 'you' haven't balanced it for the uber player - it's just that many of us have been here for many years and know many things 'by heart.' But this goes back to how large the scope of the game has gotten... Now you can have a character that's Reincarnated many, many times... So... IF that character goes to completionist then they get +2 to all stats! Anyway - at any given level - that character IS Uber-Elite as compared to almost any other character that hasn't gone completionist. And generally those whom reincarnate generally have some serious items with that character and even 'extra storage.' Now... On my MAIN Account - I have 2 - I have about 28 toons, and of those I generally play at least 10 and maybe 12 that are 'playable.' So that would leave 16 or so toons that are banks!!! On my secondary account I have like 12 or 15 and only 2 playable toons... That's at least 10 toons for banks. Although I don't consider myself uber in anyway - except for maybe total bank storage space - I probably seem uber to many out there. Most of my characters have at least one Greensteel item and most have at least 2 - which I made from many, many runs of The Shroud. So if you're starting out and you see a character 'lighting-striking' mobs down... You'd definitely think that they where uber. One last part I'd like to touch on is... I'm not sure if I'm calling this right but I'm going to say "Twitching" - where your skills at the keyboard and/or mouse are 'extra ordinary.' That too becomes a factor in this game. The game default for the keyboard layout is not 'my style.' I push the keyboard to the left with my left hand on the keypad, use the mouse in my right hand. Set a bunch of things to the keypad, then I also have like a 5 button mouse... Given the fact that I generally know when/where/how/why mobs spawn, timing of things, etc... Again, that may make me look uber to someone - when in fact "I'm not and just 'doing my thing.'"

    I do think that there are way too many easy buttons... Just be careful not to make too many, because when you do - that can kill the game and more importantly - it can kill "The Business."

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  4. #1224
    Community Member Ivan_Milic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    Talk about the haves and the have nots! Did you expect players to make 15 greensteel displacement clickies? Almost a half hour of the most powerful defensive spell ever? A spell that was nerfed to be self only!

    There is your game imbalancer right there. Nerf that garbage! Make it exclusive. That's what you do when you have an item that is too powerful when it's stacked. You do it with everything else! Why is this any different?

    How does a new player feel to be so far behind the power curve? So far behind, it would take years to grind the mats to make that many clickies. And meanwhile they are a bloody stain on the ground til they grind those mats.

    Lol, nice balance.
    Years?
    You can buy all ings except shards, which you can get easily in DA.
    You dont need more than 5, unless you plan on soloing everything.
    Besides, if you are new player, why would you feel the need to jump instantly in ee?

  5. #1225
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    The EE content turns more and more to a pure Ranged content.

    Its way to easy to keep mobs at distance while mobs hit way to hard even for specialized tanks.

    To keep EE challenging for ranged toons the DPS of the monsters raised more and more in the newer content because u barely get hit kiting mobs around with Displacement.

    AC really needs a buff in compare to Displacement.

    The DMG output of EE mobs needs to be lowered meanwhile the ability to kite tons of Mobs around needs to be nerved.

    ADD Some Striding on EE to the mobs and lower the backward running Speed of Players by half. Slightly decrease the sideways running speed as well.

    Buff AC and lower mob DPS that its Possible for Mele DPS toons with a Healer in the background and/or a Tank with self heals to stay alive in the front.

    Right now the balancing is more like:

    EE lvl 20-21:
    Meles feel uncomfortable
    the Tank starts feeling the mobs do some reasonable damage
    Healers are welcome
    Ranged toons are bored

    Devs: The Players may still crush EE´s so lets buff the DMG and HP of mobs

    EE lvl 22-24:
    many melees feel useless
    the Tank feels uncomfortable
    Healers start rezing the melees instead of healing because its cheaper in SP
    Ranged toons are bored

    Devs: The Players may still crush EE´s so lets buff the DMG and HP of mobs

    EE lvl 25-27:
    most melees feel useless
    many Tanks start to feel useless too because they have to kite the mobs instead of fighting them
    Healers? Lets take another ranged toon to speed it up since all the ranged can self heal.
    Ranged toons get some action because they have to kite mobs since they often don´t die before they reach them.

    Devs: The Players may still crush EE´s so lets buff the DMG and HP of mobs

    EE lvl 28-30:
    melees better go to hide mode and wait at the entrance until the content is done.
    who needs a Tank since the most Bosses have random agro anyway and the trash can be easily kited around?
    Also we would need a Healer with SP pots on cool down to keep a tank alive.
    Ranged toons start getting onehitted if they do a mistake and displacement/dodge/incorp fails. So better have UMD to scrollrez each other.

    Devs: Oh... the ranged guys start dieing so lets ADD some save spots for the ranged to make it boring again.
    Last edited by Glascanon; 05-22-2014 at 10:48 AM.

  6. #1226
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
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    well i would like to notice difficoulty at low levels, while high level content shows crazy hp, saves and survivability of monsters as oposed to player, on low levels game is way too easy, first life character can easly solo most if not whole harbor, low level bosses have hp values not much higher from common monster, 6 player party can kill them in very few swings, up untill lvl 6 or 7 quests, its very easy to solo any content, if low level content is soloable, then it teaches new players wrong idea of playing ddo, its meant to be a party based game.

    so i would say lower hp and saves on high levels, EE content especialy, and boost monsters in low level content, their damage output is just about right, just that they die too easy. im not talkibng about more challenge, im talking about makeing low level quests less boring. idk how many new players are there in ddo, but i meet some from time to time, and i seen their reactions to someone who knows the game or is multiple tr, soloing a quest with everyone in tow who twirl their thumbs becouse there is nothing left to do.

    that probably means that low level dungeon scaleing would need some fixing, OR that everything on low level would need to be boosted.
    "If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong."
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  7. #1227
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    I think one problem with game difficulty is that there's no separation of casuals and hardcore players in terms of difficulty. Everyone expects to be able to run Epic Elite, which is fine, I guess, but there's NO content that's hardcore only (of course that would hurt the bottom line, but I'm sure some people would pay for challenging content.) There should be a tier of either difficulty or just content period that is tailored to good players and offers better gear/ other incentives. I don't agree with the mindset that EVERYONE should be capable of doing EE . There's lower difficulties for a reason. (Casual player here by the way). In terms of the difficulty itself, I think it's been said to death, but more needs to be done than just add flat hp/ damage to mobs.

  8. #1228
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9001 View Post
    I think one problem with game difficulty is that there's no separation of casuals and hardcore players in terms of difficulty. Everyone expects to be able to run Epic Elite, which is fine, I guess, but there's NO content that's hardcore only (of course that would hurt the bottom line, but I'm sure some people would pay for challenging content.) There should be a tier of either difficulty or just content period that is tailored to good players and offers better gear/ other incentives. I don't agree with the mindset that EVERYONE should be capable of doing EE . There's lower difficulties for a reason. (Casual player here by the way). In terms of the difficulty itself, I think it's been said to death, but more needs to be done than just add flat hp/ damage to mobs.
    As long as ee will give favor, and better items, or EE only items, anyone who wants those will try to run them, ofc if there was none of that in EE, not many ppl would run it JUST for bragging rights. and here we have source of problem.....

    so if there was a EEE difficoulty added to the game, it would have to be PURELY just for challenge, not much more.

    i think for all that difficoulty scaled gear, there should be an upgrade system, you dont want to run EE to get best version of item? fine, run it on EH, gather 50 tokens from that quest and upgrade it to next difficoulty tier, with those new token based trade menus it would be not that bad to create, fall of truth items already use that idea so why not make it in all quests that use difficoulty based item scaleing.

    as for favor i think we shoudl be getting ONE favor, completion favor, not scaled by difficoulty.
    Last edited by bloodnose13; 07-23-2014 at 12:59 PM.
    "If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong."
    — Groucho Marx

  9. #1229
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodnose13 View Post
    As long as ee will give favor, and better items, or EE only items, anyone who wants those will try to run them, ofc if there was none of that in EE, not many ppl would run it JUST for bragging rights. and here we have source of problem.....

    so if there was a EEE difficoulty added to the game, it would have to be PURELY just for challenge, not much more.

    i think for all that difficoulty scaled gear, there should be an upgrade system, you dont want to run EE to get best version of item? fine, run it on EH, gather 50 tokens from that quest and upgrade it to next difficoulty tier, with those new token based trade menus it would be not that bad to create, fall of truth items already use that idea so why not make it in all quests that use difficoulty based item scaleing.

    as for favor i think we shoudl be getting ONE favor, completion favor, not scaled by difficoulty.
    See, I never thought about the favor aspect, thanks for pointing it out. I think if they DO make a high difficulty challenge mode it should indeed be segragated from the normal n/h/e, which would reinforce the fact that it's not for casual players. I'd like to see some non-combat items as rewards, but unlike (excuse my reference) WoW, which has a lot of non-combat options, DDO is kinda limited on that aspect. I do think there should be some incentive to do the challenge difficulty, but what it is would be up for discussion. I'm also for better versions of gear, or at least higher chances for gear drops, on higher difficulties.

  10. #1230
    2015 DDO Players Council Seikojin's Avatar
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    This discussion has lost its focus. Game difficulty now is rough for some classes (pure or MC), builds, playstyles, etc. Changes coming may help that. However, in the longer run, we as a community must keep in mind that difficulty will be a constant flux. A real bard of power is when level 30 is up. Then you have something to stop at and measure against. Without a true endgame, you cannot make something more or less difficult. People who have advanced further will trivialize the content, while people not at that level will struggle.

    It will always be this way.

  11. #1231
    Community Member bloodnose13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seikojin View Post
    This discussion has lost its focus. Game difficulty now is rough for some classes (pure or MC), builds, playstyles, etc. Changes coming may help that. However, in the longer run, we as a community must keep in mind that difficulty will be a constant flux. A real bard of power is when level 30 is up. Then you have something to stop at and measure against. Without a true endgame, you cannot make something more or less difficult. People who have advanced further will trivialize the content, while people not at that level will struggle.

    It will always be this way.
    i understand what you are saying but as difficoulty i see the inflated hp and saves on enemies, devs created and were creating in past a lot of oportunity for creating powerfull/overpowered characters (by exploiting combinations of skills/enchancements from diffrent classes "monkcher" as example) or by items (greensteel, epic items), that in turn were the reason why game difficoulty was raised by buffing up hp and saves accross the board, creating problems for anyone who was THAT powerful.

    i think that artificialy raising hp, saves, and what ever else on enemies in quests and saying its harder difficoulty is doing it wrong, change of ac and to hit systems created some problems too, becouse players have no trouble at all with hitting enemies, that means that since we hit nearly all the time enemy has to have high hp to keep us beating him for while. weapon effects are not without fault either, all weapon cc effects (paralyzing, limbchopper, etc) those things dumb down the combat to the thing it is now.

    so i think first thing that would have to happen is nerfing of everything that has massive impact on combat, things that give inflated damage bonuses (stats to damage are not as important as they were before, becouse most of damage comes from weapon dice bonuses, and other extra damage bonuses) in class trees and in destinies, and at same time dropping hp and saves on enemies but instead giveing them dodge, all sorts of blur, dr, damage mitigations similar to prr, and survival tricks we use.
    and then ddo would become a game where tactics and cunning, would be worth much more than blind bashing/nukeing everything.
    "If you're not having fun, you're doing something wrong."
    — Groucho Marx

  12. #1232
    Community Member eden2760's Avatar
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    Something someone said in another topic really stuck out at me on this:

    Make your own difficulty.

    The game does offer ways to challenge you, and there are other ways to challenge yourself, if this is something that is important to you.

    If one of your goals is to get as close to possible as trivializing all content with an overpowered character, then go for that goal. If you ever reach that goal to your satisfaction, then find a new goal.

    Maybe try working towards being able to solo an epic elite raid or two (where it's mechanically possible) or something similar. The game can only impose so much on you. In the end you tend to get what you want out of it.
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  13. #1233
    Community Member burningwind's Avatar
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    the simple solution is to keep the game a little easier(reduce wheloon and stormhorn instant spawn rate..), increase low level named loot drop chance to 20%~50% (or buff them to make worthy of farming, new player who want them likely will never seen them until they no longer new, or no longer need them)

    then make a new difficulty, which should be insanely hard, but give +5 loot bonus. 100% chance to add all named loot to the end reward. plus no longer give penalty on death... this could be called..something like.. abyss difficulty? this should give challenge to those who tr 40+ lifes and have no challenge in current elite~~

  14. #1234
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    Maybe if they nerfed displacement clickies they would be forced to fix the broken system where melees are can't be effective without it. I feel sorry for ppl forced to grind clickies. How is that fun? I've got 99 problems but lack of displacement clickies is not one.
    it is a pain for anyone starting a new melee character.

    Read, either forget EE or splash to be able to self cast.

    It is silly that it relies so much on a single ability.

    Nerf it, then maybe mobs do not need to hit like trucks to be able to damage enough in the very few occasions that they manage to land a hit.

  15. #1235
    Community Member Robbenklopper's Avatar
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    Feel yourself challenged by:

    - playing a melee
    - staying pure
    - no exploits
    “I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll without aim, where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge, or lustre, or name.”

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  16. #1236
    Community Member Robbenklopper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glascanon View Post
    Right now the balancing is more like:

    EE lvl 20-21:
    Meles feel uncomfortable
    the Tank starts feeling the mobs do some reasonable damage
    Healers are welcome
    Ranged toons are bored

    Devs: The Players may still crush EE´s so lets buff the DMG and HP of mobs

    EE lvl 22-24:
    many melees feel useless
    the Tank feels uncomfortable
    Healers start rezing the melees instead of healing because its cheaper in SP
    Ranged toons are bored

    Devs: The Players may still crush EE´s so lets buff the DMG and HP of mobs

    EE lvl 25-27:
    most melees feel useless
    many Tanks start to feel useless too because they have to kite the mobs instead of fighting them
    Healers? Lets take another ranged toon to speed it up since all the ranged can self heal.
    Ranged toons get some action because they have to kite mobs since they often don´t die before they reach them.

    Devs: The Players may still crush EE´s so lets buff the DMG and HP of mobs

    EE lvl 28-30:
    melees better go to hide mode and wait at the entrance until the content is done.
    who needs a Tank since the most Bosses have random agro anyway and the trash can be easily kited around?
    Also we would need a Healer with SP pots on cool down to keep a tank alive.
    Ranged toons start getting onehitted if they do a mistake and displacement/dodge/incorp fails. So better have UMD to scrollrez each other.

    Devs: Oh... the ranged guys start dieing so lets ADD some save spots for the ranged to make it boring again.
    Glorious!
    (y) +1

    Note: But it´s a simple fact: in every war mankind fought, the ranged had been superior over the Close-combat. We have machineguns, artillery and air-strikes. Melees are only for Support. And don´t come to a Shooting with a knife (except you´re chuck norris)
    Last edited by Robbenklopper; 08-18-2014 at 07:43 AM.
    “I have seen the dark universe yawning, where the black planets roll without aim, where they roll in their horror unheeded, without knowledge, or lustre, or name.”

    Cannith

  17. #1237
    Community Member ddo.rsmo.pt's Avatar
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    I feel myself challenged with:


    1. Enter Quest in EE
    2. Play a challenging quest
    3. Get crappy reward list
    4. Repeat 1-3 too many times before getting good reward


    This would be fixed, for example, with Chain Reward items being same level as the quests you played them (similar to sagas).
    Doing a chain in Epic Elite, only to have a Epic Normal reward list after not getting any drops in the quests themselves is... blargh.

    Carry on.
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  18. #1238
    Community Member Ebondevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddo.rsmo.pt View Post
    I feel myself challenged with:


    1. Enter Quest in EE
    2. Play a challenging quest
    3. Get crappy reward list
    4. Repeat 1-3 too many times before getting good reward


    This would be fixed, for example, with Chain Reward items being same level as the quests you played them (similar to sagas).
    Doing a chain in Epic Elite, only to have a Epic Normal reward list after not getting any drops in the quests themselves is... blargh.

    Carry on.
    I have to agree utterly, the Mechanics are already there with the Saga, it shouldn't be too hard to adapt them for chain rewards, okay saga's have had some teething issues, but they should be fixed by now.

  19. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    What are your thoughts on the overall difficulty of DDO? Sure, we offer difficulty choices, but do you find yourself in a postion where even Normal difficulty feels too much like hard?

    If so, do you associate this with a given level in the game (e.g. 10+) or do you think there is just too much inconsistency throughout?

    What's the right balance of challenge vs success for YOU? Do you expect to never fail when playing Normal - or would that simply bore you?

    I'm raising this subject for a few reasons. I think a lot of people expect that when it comes to an MMO, if you put time in you must get progress/reward out of it - and that failure is just plain bad. Spending 45 minutes into a quest only to fail can be very frustrating.

    We have been accused (and perhaps there's truth to this) that we've been balancing the game for the uber-player. Are you finding this to be the case? It seems like a couple years ago the salient message from the community was 'enough with the easy button already!'

    Would love to know your thoughts on this. Feel free to reference specific quests.
    I rarely see people play anything on normal because of Bravery Streaks.

    For level 14ish+ it becomes exceptionally difficult for a melee toon to keep stride with casters. Has been this way for a long time but moreover if you're trying to level and can't find a party... you're really kinda stuck. There are some builds that can do it sure, and I'm not saying the game should be soloable on Elite, but there is definitely a point where melee needs a party but casters don't necessarily.

    Some of the Red Fens quests can also be a bit tricky.. but most problems I've encountered there have been from bugs (scorpions aggroing through walls while ones next to you still haven't detected you etc).

    Higher heroic level quests where a melee character has to juggle different types of weapons to bypass different types of DR can be extremely tedious. The same with long quests where your gear takes a beating. I know you can strengthen your gear with adamantine rituals, but who wants to do that for leveling gear? It's time consuming and costly for gear you're just going to change out of in a few levels.

    Several quests have horribly bugged maps/mini-maps. For new players or people who haven't memorized questing paths, this can make for an infuriating gameplay experience.

    A problem I'm seeing lately is, people new to DDO buy the level 15 character option. They jump into a game that has a steep learning curve, don't understand concepts like saves, Difficulty Checks, Evasion, PRR, etc.. but they are in the level range for some of the most challenging content on heroic level. I was running some Sands quests and ended up grouping with people that were TRs but didn't know about the mummy curse/disease thing, had no idea about damage reduction, and were just really extremely inexperienced. The problem isn't about the game being too difficult, it's about there being too many shortcuts for the early, learning levels. I used to see people stuck around level 7 or 8.. They would flounder there for maybe a month. Then boom.. something would click, maybe they would watch a video or read up on some stuff on wiki, or I dunno.. but then they would "get it". The learning curve at level 15+ is so much steeper and requires a tighter understanding of the game. If anything, too much of the content has been made too easy. I would say that being grouped with these people is ruining my gaming experience. I expect to step into a level 15+ quest with a group and not have someone run up 15 steps and die. People are able to look up a video on zerging and I guess they assume that's the normal way to play.. then I get them in my group and I am stuck in dungeon alert red while this guy has gotten halfway into the quest and died in a pit trap or a giant mob.

    At level 15ish + I will say that life becomes a lot more difficult for a melee character and for a tank it is almost impossible. I do understand that changes are coming for that but I hold reservations as to what will be accomplished by those changes.

  20. #1240
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    I have had another thought on this while leveling through another life on my main. The Evening Star quests on heroic difficulty are insanely hard. This particularly applies to A Stay at the Inn. The HE version of this features CR 28 mobs.. on what is, as far as I know just a regular quest. Other than having Bastion (not sure if there are other named items) I don't understand why this quest would be so far out of the difficulty curve compared to other quests of this level range.

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