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  1. #41
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Yus!!!!

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    Advocating repeated nerfs in the name of "balancing the game" then complaining about how DDO is moving away from D&D, is a direct contradiction in logic - D&D 3.5 (what DDO is based on) is not a balanced game. We can either have a balanced clone MMO with homogenized classes, or we can have a D&D game. We cant have both.

  2. #42
    Community Member twiliteslayer02's Avatar
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    Welcoming the chance to help plan the adventure, most dungeonmasters dont allow that, and the idea that now, after 3 years of almost no response, we are finally geting at least the start of an active participation from you guys is a real treat!


    Looking forward to it, and hopefully it doesnt fall into shambles when the forumites get to bickering.

    Good luck, hope to start this soon.
    Rageforged

  3. #43
    2014 DDO Players Council Flavilandile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Some of the topics on my mind are:
    - class balance
    - overall difficulty of content
    - bugs
    - AC
    - Ranged combat
    - Challenges
    - True Reincarnation
    - Strengths & weaknesses of the game
    - where we're headed

    hmm thoughts about that, in order of priority :

    - Bugs : should be priority number one. Especially things that have been FUBAR for years ( Shroud collectable quests, Guild ranking, ... ).

    - Class balance : you have an AC problem here... among other things. Solving the AC problem will go a long way towards putting back things into balance.

    - AC : see above, you solve the AC problem you solve more than half the Balance problem.

    - Overall difficulty of content : just scrub the Shade Changes. They killed the pugs and are hurting the game.
    Point 1 : Shroud is LVL 17 raid that should be run to level from 15 to 16 without any greensteel item nor any Tod/Epic stuff, not a LVL 20 geared endgame raid.
    Point 2 : Bashing 20 Minutes against Velah instead of 10 minutes doesn't change the level of boredom... it just drain more ressources. ( mana pots )
    Point 3 : Bashing 30 minutes against E Kween instead of 10 minutes doesn't change the level of boredom... it just drain more ressources ( mana pots )
    Point 4 : some raids and quest ( not all of then end game content ) are more difficult right now than most of the Epic quests.

    - where we're headed : That would be nice to know, especially with all those half finished content and all the crafting systems that does not merge together ( and you keep adding more and more while we would like to have one integrated system that encompass everything )

    - Challenges : just drop them, they are nice as event quest, but not as something always on. Dont waste more time on that.

    - TR : I'll pass that one, I have 9 capped characters and several Hearts of Wood, but I still haven't found the will to endure the ordeal of levelling again that character. Especially as I ave 9 other characters to level ( Altaholic? Me ? suuuuuure )

    The rest is not worth commenting on for me. Either because I don't know enough ebout it or I don't care.
    On G-Land : Flavilandile, Blacklock, Yaelle, Millishande, Larilandile, Gildalinde, Tenalafel, and many other...

  4. #44
    Community Member red_cardinal's Avatar
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    Well, since a thread will be made for each of those topics, I hope we can get some interesting stuff pointed out... Although, you'd get that if you'd read Suggestions&Ideas forums...

  5. #45
    Community Member Combat_Wombat's Avatar
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    Class Balance
    There is no reason to bother with class balance till you finish all the PRE's for each class. Sure theres some balance issues atm but they pale in comparison to the need to finish the PRE's. Also any balance done before the PRE's are finished is going to have to be redone anyways.

    Difficulty Level
    The Cannith quest pack with raids is the best point to touch on here. The quests ended up being to easy compared to their Amrath contemporaries. The raids are a bit much on elite and epic compared to ToD elite and the other epic raids. Even after months of learning the amount of guilds that can do them consistently with acceptable resource usage is small. So I would say make the quests harder and the higher difficulty raids just a tad easier.

    Bugs
    This has been just ridiculous recently between multiple major exploits, consistent crashing for many people in Big Top, zoning in crashes in the desert and some other areas and the ever present character switching game slowdown/crash problem. It has been a sad year for the communities respect for Turbines ability to turn out relatively solid tested releases.

    Challenges
    A good idea but there needed to be larger server-wide guild vs guild contest. Top guild in challenge times gets something special for their airship the next week, top in Stars per run gets something else. A real reason for people to be constantly running these even after they blow through the favor and loot in a week.

    Ranged Combat
    This relates to class balance. ATM the changes made have helped ranged allot and I think its best to leave it alone for awhile and see how things end up in the long term. Only obvious problem I see is in Repeater dps it starts out to high at lower levels and never increases enough late game to keep them all that useful. So a lower starting dps that ends up higher later would be good. Haven't done the maths but I am sure some would if you ask.

    True Reincarnation
    WOMG Bravery Streaks are great. That is all. Edit: Almost forgot please please please let tomes carry though TR's whatever giant amount of dev time this takes to work is worth it and everyone will love you forever and ever and ever.

    Strengths and Weaknesses & Where we are headed
    Please for the love of god start making epics again. Still want EPIC GIANTHOLD the upgrade thing was a cute way to get people to shutup about this without doing any dev time but it isn't going to cut it. The changes to epic balance with the HP changes and the deathspells working and the removal of autocrit have solved all of my major issues with epics please for the love of god make more.

    Also! Druids, Gnomes, I know there has been some talk of splash classes those are a great idea too. The strength of this game is its amazing combat system and the sheer mind blowing variety of ways to make your character yours the more you build on this the more successful the game is going to be.
    Last edited by Combat_Wombat; 12-21-2011 at 03:04 PM.
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    Please don't make posts like this, thanks.
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  6. #46
    Community Member Munkenmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Some of the topics on my mind are:
    - class balance
    You've tipped the scales too far in favor of casters, specifically palemasters, an attempt has been made to rectify caster imbalance with the change to favored souls wings mechanic, that was off base, the problem isn't just caster mobility.
    The problem imo is casters survivability and the power of the level 5 damage over time spells introduced this year. Casters now have melee compatible dps, whilst being able to kite mobs, self heal, self buff, and have very little risk of running out of sp before the next shrine.
    Really the only choices available to fix this are nerfs or power creep melee.

    Few questions,
    Has any thought been put into something like changing the third stack of a dot from dps to an effect?

    divine punishment - drops target fortification by 10%
    electric surge - slows target ac by 10%
    niacs biting cold - slows target attack speed by 10%

    Why does my fvs with 6base wisdom have a divine punishment that's just as good as a fvs with 40wisdom?
    maybe leave the damage portion as is for now, but when the mob debuff is applied there is a save associated with it. Don't sledge hammer the spells, make gradual changes.

    Dungeon alert needs to be reviewed, either get rid of Red DA boosting mob ac, after all you want us to kill trash, making this harder on melee without effecting casters at all is just silly. Nobody likes being harried, so stick with Dungeon alert effecting mobility and increase the slowdown effects, ie. disable wings/step and jumping during red DA.

    (I don't really want to touch on insta kills in epics, there have been good suggestions bought up in the past, my favorite being an easy start to nerfs, make all aoe insta kills have the same animation as mass heal.)


    - overall difficulty of content
    New content since Sentinals imo has been trivialized by the abundance of shrines being put in now, caster sp isn't the precious resource it once was. Ideas like removing the shrine in elite / epic lord of blades aren't the right way to go either. Ranged trash at the start makes regaining sp reasonably easy, so the shrine loss simply slows the raid down for melee and makes the first wave tedious and boring.

    Air elementals and earth elementals have been given boosts, air elementals are boring and frustrating on melee, the knockdown is too strong. Whilst I appreciate earth elementals are now interesting, I'm vehemently opposed to fom not preventing earthgrab. You reviewed the AI of thaarak hounds earlier, elementals needed the same treatment. Air elementals should be spamming gust of wind more often to slow melee without actually sending them flying and earths should be spending more time attacking less time slamming the ground. (note even on my ranged toon i dislike air ele's as is)


    - bugs
    chest bug was bad no two ways about it. The popularity of the current tradeable bound ingredients bug to me though and the amount of unused ingredients around show me that bound ingredients don't work. When it seems like the majority of end game players on Sarlona are willing to participate in an exploit that circumvents a system they're unhappy with, perhaps reviewing your stance on what should and shouldn't be bound is in order. This even seems to be reflected on the forums, where people are angry due to people exploiting, but not actually angry about what's being exploited.

    More Broadly, QA should be listened to, and bugs should be allowed to be posted on Lamania Forums, I don't care if they're quickly noted and removed, but we shouldn't be in trouble for posting bugs on the test servers forums, ESPECIALLY when the ingame bug tool was broken.

    - AC
    i'm not enough of a math guru to get into in depth discussions, i do like amrath where mobs have very different too hit values, either make more quests like that, or Sirgogs suggestion for mulitple d20 dice on attack rolls seemed to have some merit too.

    - Ranged combat
    having finally rolled a ranged toon, I've found in rooms full of mobs i use my bow with IPS, and when manyshot / 10k stars are off timer I'll activate them and use my bow. Melee is normally such a superior option that my bow dps is a joke. However i don't think ranged dps needs to be boosted, simply new quests should be designed in such a manner that perched mobs, or large groups of mobs increase the amount of situations where ranged dps could be superior. (pillars in lob are a nice example of perched mob potential too)

    - Challenges
    Hated them initially due to poor kobald AI,whilst it's improved, i find the rewards rates far too low in some quests, when your out to craft an item or 20 the reward rates suck. None of the rates should be dropped, but some challenges need substantial boosts, grinding some of the kobald island quests for 20 mins and getting 100-200 items is BORING.
    As an aside note, I only run these because i'm VIP, I struggle to get a full party because my guildies think the pack is too expensive for mostly sub par loot. Myself, having looked at the loot, the price, the exp potential, I agree with them, I'd not pay 1500 points for it either.


    - True Reincarnation
    I like Levels 1-18 on a double TR i enjoy them and have fun, it's honestly just too much exp with too few quests at the end though. I feel on double TR's the 1million exp requirement from level 18-20 is boring, even with bravery, by the time i get to 18 on a TR I'm bored there's very few quests, the new ones you've introduced have some of the worst exp to date and it's a tedious boring grind to 20. Challenges have helped with this, but Cannith exp sucks and added nothing to my strive to reach cap.

    - Strengths & weaknesses of the game
    Combat is a strength
    Variation of builds is a strength
    Epic scroll mechanics making solo farming the most effective is a weakness. (chance per party member per kill = scroll)
    1million crafting systems is a weakness
    2million crafting ingredients is a weakness
    imbalance of classes in epics is a weakness


    - where we're headed
    If in 2012 you listen to only the top tier of players and make epic raids unavailable to the masses,
    Or balance bosses by increasing fortification whilst leaving casters unaffected,
    Or render melee useless in 90% of a quest while everything gets insta killed
    Or release bugged content that drastically changes the economy
    Or are heavy handed with nerf

    I'm going to assume we're headed no where good.
    thanks for the chance at feedback, i hope this is helpful.

  7. #47
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    Well, I know there won't be thread for this topic posted, so I will ask it here: How can we inhabit a world with three moons, yet it has no tides?
    Anál nathrach
    orth’ bháis’s bethad
    do chél dénmha

  8. #48
    Community Member somenewnoob's Avatar
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    I might suggest a more anonymous "survey" type thing instead of a forum post for these.

    I mean.....have you SEEN the forums lately?
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  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ganolyn View Post
    Well, I know there won't be thread for this topic posted, so I will ask it here: How can we inhabit a world with three moons, yet it has no tides?
    Why do you think the leaky dingy is up so high?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by somenewnoob View Post
    I might suggest a more anonymous "survey" type thing instead of a forum post for these.

    I mean.....have you SEEN the forums lately?
    Yeah, lately I'm thinking what turbine means by target goals is the short straw for the community forum target once that person tries to discuss goals.

    He might need a bigger boat.

  11. #51
    Community Member Ralmeth's Avatar
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    Madfloyd,

    This sounds great! I'm looking forward to your threads on the various topics you raised.
    Aryk Stoutheart, Vanguard Paladin
    Grolyn Stoutheart, Divine Disciple Cleric
    Rindyl Twirliblade, Elven Swashbuckler

  12. #52
    Community Member Ganolyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aashrym View Post
    Why do you think the leaky dingy is up so high?
    Why are the docks and piers so low? You would need a leaky dingy to get there at high tide!
    Anál nathrach
    orth’ bháis’s bethad
    do chél dénmha

  13. #53
    Community Member grodon9999's Avatar
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    Can you leak some U13 stuff to while you're at it?

  14. #54
    Community Member Blank_Zero's Avatar
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    Don't forget about the "Vocal Minority" at the other place MadFloyd. We have ideas too of you'd just listen.
    Smrti///Warcrye///Dukkha///Nomey///Dhaarmika///Smrtiheals
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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd View Post
    Hi all,


    Some of the topics on my mind are:
    - class balance Despite what some people are saying, the classes shouldnt be balanced. Each class brings a different persepctive to the game. There is no reason why they should be balanced against each other.

    - overall difficulty of content Tailoring content so the Shades and Sirgog's of the world have a challenge? NOT a good idea. I mean seriously, these guys who bend your ear have gob's of epic gear or access to resources that most of the midlin' and newer players only dream. Lord of the Blades is a perfect example of that. Shade and his friends hurt the devs feelings so what did they do? They Nerfed wings. Impact the whole game because why? Because Shade want a challenge? pfffft

    - bugs There are bugs in the game stretching bags years. Hitching on ladders is a pain yes, however, time and time again we are hearing about players losing items - them just disappearing from Inventories. Turbine claims to have no knowledge of this? total BS. When it directly Impacts the game experience for multiple players, enough is enough - Make these issues as much a priority as you do when Hot Patching an exploit.

    - AC Whats AC? i mean seriously. Its meaningless in this game unless you go out of your way to build for it. My Wizard wearing robes has approx the same ac as my FvS who wears epic cav plate.

    - Ranged combat

    - Challenges Havent run any. Dont find that style of gaming fun. Its lazy programming. Wheres the story line?

    - True ReincarnationAbout to start my 3rd life on my main. Still cant quite bear to think about using my +3 tomes. I also think that the XP needed to level a TR needs to be looked at. The main issue relates to the question is ddo ever going to raise the character cap beyond 20? Given the huge amounts of xp needed to cap now, how is it going to impact the leveling process in the future?

    - Strengths & weaknesses of the game Strengths: combat system
    Weaknesses: Tailoring the Upper level content to fit the wants/challenges of a few.


    - where we're headed In all seriousness? Nowhere, and fast.

    I'm sure I'm forgetting some at the moment. These threads won't all happen at once, but I hope to get them going as soon as possible.

    Thanks in advance for your constructive participation!
    just some observations for now.
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  16. #56
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    Right now i think the #1 priority for you guys should be the outstanding bugs.

    You have the known issues list. You have our bug reports. yeah it's a chore.. but it's long overdue to start cutting a good chunk of those down.

    The bugs (and exploits) have hurt this game just as much as the lackluster content in the last two packs.


    I feel bad talking to new players and they usually ask something and i respond with the truth.. Yeah thats broken. Yeah that doesnt work. Yeah that used to work and now it doesnt. Theres a whole list of things that fall under those areas these days. It's... sad. It might be ok or not that bad for a new game.. But ddo is no longer new. it's long past time to iron out the major problems.

  17. #57
    Hero BurnerD's Avatar
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    A big KUDOS to you and the dev team. I truly believe the improved communication will help improve the game. This is a BIG step in the right direction.

    Looking forward to participating in your forum discussions
    Argonessenn -Officer of Storm Shadow-
    Olen Anteres

  18. #58
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Mad a few things,

    1. Director of design huh. That is the big seat with content and systems. Not high enough on the chain to be forced to be less invovled in the nitty gritty, but high enough to make the big calls. You are then the man to direct complaints and comments to about bigger picture issues.
    2. An interesting list of topics. Mostly good.
      1. The bad. Challenges. They are a sideshow mechanic my best advice is to never spend development time on making more of them.
      2. MIA. Character advancement at 20. There appears to be inertia setting in at end game. Lots of lateral moves without alot of feeling of constantly improving. The big topic of post 20th level advancement should be added to that list. Also missing in action...raids...apparently these are lower piority then almost anything else in the game at this point. During the original game we had one every module. Another important one that is MIA is exploits. If we are talking about bugs it will not be a real discussion if we can not talk about the big elephant in the room the mother of all bugs the exploits. They have devastated the game a few times in it's history, but recently the one two whammy really is going to alter what it takes to get players motivated to run new end game content and for that matter to keep on playing. The last and huge one is the pay to win becoming more of a reality. If Turbine even cares about long term survival of this game this has to be addressed.
    3. Communication is always welcome, but I hope it will be honest communication that actually understands that a wave of negatitive feedback means that you probably screwed up somewhere and should at least take a few steps back and re-examine your basic premise. You might find you still think you are on the right course, but by doing that re-examining you clarify your thoughts and should be able to demonstrate your line of thinking in clear articulate terms to the players. This is something Turbine has historically failed the worst at. Never treat the player base like a bunch of sycophants who will oh and ahh at your jokes and accept your statements about doing some random thing as fixing the class imbalance. Instead show them the numbers and the analysis. You will find that many players are more then smart enough to both understand these things and point out analytical or factual mistakes and through this your big picture ideas will work better.
    4. Talking about this stuff is awesome, but not if it is after the point when it really matters. If you really are honest about getting feedback that can effect development in a meaningful manner these things need to be discussed at the beginning of forming ideas to deal with them, as they are being developed, and as they are in a near final form. Otherwise, you come off (and are) only giving lip service to caring about the players feedback because your bosses would not let you make major course corrections late in the design process.
    Cheers,

    Cyr
    Proud Recipient of At least 8 Negative Rep From NA Threads.
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  19. #59
    Community Member Aelonwy's Avatar
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    Smile

    Good to see you're placing your best foot forward in the new year. Kudos!
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  20. #60
    Community Member voxson5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadFloyd;4225733
    2011 has been an interesting year, but definitely bumpy in many respects. We need to do better in 2012.

    Some of the topics on my mind are:
    - class balance
    [/color


    First of all, let me say that DnD classes are NOT supposed to be balanced. The whole idea (as you know already) was to have a party of various classes overcome obsticles and challenges by using the strengths of all of the party.

    That said, I must echo what so much of the community has already asked for:
    -Finsh the PrE's
    -Stop buffing some classes PrE's while retarding others


    - overall difficulty of content
    It isn't difficult.
    Shroud/Reaver etc changes have just caused new tactics to be created.

    But who's idea was it to nerf quest difficulty? I'm still hacked off about the changes to quests like Tear of Dhakaan.

    Although I may not speak for everybody, I do not want to tra-la-la through a quest knowing there are more shrines than what I could need, traps I can easily avoid, doors I do not need to unlock, and enemies that die in 1-2 hits from a toom with no power-attack.


    - bugs


    Forgive my bluntness, but why are you even asking? There are numerous threads regarding current bugs, including the company side "known bugs list".


    - AC


    No probs, unless talking about epics. I dont know if mob to-hit is just so incredibly high, or if players haven't yet reached a value that works comfortably.

    Maybe Epic character levels are a solution (to give Epic AC options, only applicible in Epic quests/raids), could be a work-around.


    - Ranged combat

    Arti's have brought much needed life back into this. However, there are also several threads about improving ranged combat, no need to ask questions that already have so many answers already.

    - Challenges

    Fun for the few I've played, no comment as of yet

    - True Reincarnation

    I love it just the way it is, changing it would unbalance things far too much (thinking of extra build points, xp bonues etc).

    - Strengths & weaknesses of the game

    I love this game! I love the community, the fact it is (based on) DnD, the active combat (best bit imho).

    Weaknesses?
    -quests that keep getting ********
    -classes that keep getting ********
    -PrE's that have not been 'updated' (for years I might add)
    -easybutton guildbuffs & new lowbie equipment = trivialized content

    - where we're headed

    This bit is quite a serious issue. Many of us have either been here for a long time, put a lot of real money into the game, or both.

    Through my eyes? It looks like you are trying to cater for the newer players who want to be like the vets who have put in years of effort to get the gear, quest knowledge and player skill.

    I understand the business (monetary) reasons, it is simply more profitable do encourage more people in. But I do not think it is so wise.

    The huge jump in powercreep over my last few years of playing really scares me.

    Responses in gold
    Last edited by voxson5; 12-21-2011 at 03:42 PM.
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